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  • Months ago, I created a page for the 1975 television special Disney Time 1975. The special in question was an installment of the Disney Time anthology series — which, like other similar Disney specials, mostly hosted extracts from preexisting properties and shorts, with a framing story around it featuring a guest star. You may have guessed it by now, but the guest star of this particular episode was none other than the Fourth Doctor, played by Tom Baker.

    Soon after, a delete template was added to the page; it surfaced that the rationale was that the connection to Doctor Who was too tenuous, and that this was more “the host is Tom Baker, and he's sort of lightly pretending to be his most famous character but not really” than a story (albeit an invalid one) about the Fourth Doctor.

    This is, in my opinion, very much untrue. The Doctor/Baker arrives in London in the TARDIS (it is seen materializing on-screen!), constantly acts like the Doctor without ever breaking character, and ends the special when he receives an urgent message from the Brigadier. That last bit is important — not only does it establish that this is the Doctor and not Tom Baker pretending to be the Doctor, but it appears to be a direct lead-in to Terror of the Zygons, broadcast just a few days later than Disney Time 1975, and which does indeed begin with the Doctor hurrying to the Brigadier after receiving an urgent message from him. A direct lead-in to a regular TV story is more of a narrative connection to regular Doctor Who than Search Out Space — undeniably something we cover — did, so why should Disney Time 1975 be out while Search Out Space is in?

    We discussed this at some lengths on the talk page: Talk:Disney Time 1975 (TV story), but, even though User:Danniesen and myself were still arguing for the special to be covered, and the "delete" side had not answered the points I restated above in any clear fashion, the page still ended up being deleted.

    Since the conversation is unlikely to be noticed by anyone who didn't already participate in it if we confine it to the talk page of a deleted page, I thought it best to bring it to the Forum. (Considering that this is a debate about whether to cover the thing or not, rather than about whether it is valid — for it is invalid either way; the Doctor breaks the fourth wall throughout, since he serves as a TV host — I think it belongs here, in the Panopticon, rather than in Inclusion Debates; someone, do correct me if I'm wrong on this.)

    But to add to the earlier points… if this sort of clearly-invalid TV special thingum, where it's even slightly unclear whether the Doctor's actor is in-character or not, isn't within what Tardis covers — could somebody tell me what the justification is for keeping pages about the likes of The Lord Mayor's Show, or Tony Blair Regenerates, or the Surprise Surprise! special?

      Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • It SHOULD have a page. It's a valid page to have, and that is a fact and can't be altered no matter what anyone can say against it. It doesn't change that there should be a page about it.

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    • I think the last point there is very important and perhaps should be the focus of the entire thread. There is no policy (that I know of) that clearly regulates pages within Category:Parodic comedy sketches from non-DWU series. What stays and what goes in this extremely broad category of obviously invalid stories?

      One way that I looked at it when I was into making invalid pages was that if an actor reprised their role as their character in a licensed appearance then it can have a page which, with hindsight is a bad way to do things.

      Another way that I thought was surely better was if the parody had been included in some way on an official DW BBC DVD. The Real McCoy was deleted for being unlicensed despite being included in its entirety on the Earthshock DVD and Pakistani Dalek was deleted for being unassociated with Who despite clips being featured in More than 30 Years in the TARDIS.

      I don't know what the solution is here, but I thought I'd bring it up.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • I think that if an actor reprised their Doctor Who role and it was licensed with the BBC (which is clearly the case for Disney Time 1975), then the thing's place on the Wiki shouldn't be questioned.

      Beyond that, you'r quite right that this is sort of the soul of the debate, though it's not just "parody sketches"; the Surprise! Surprise! special wasn't parody, and nor was Disney Time; it's just incursions of Who characters and concept into Rule-1-breaking media.

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    • Since this haven't been countered, I think it's safe to assume that the page can be recreated.

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    • Well, let's not be hasty. Neither of us is an administrator here. Though I share the sentiment, of course.

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    • I know.

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    • Admin note: User:Danniesen is not an admin and therefore has no authority to "assume" or allow open issues to be resolved thanks.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Wow wow wow, I did not claim authority or allow for anything.

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    • Whether it counts as a valid story or not, it should definitely have a page, in my opinion.

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    • Yeah. It doesn't make sense to exclude it.

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    • Not just a bump (though that too), but also an addition: another story not currently covered on the Wiki, but which I think falls in the same batch as Disney Time 1975, Search Out Space and the rest. Namely, the Out of the Unknown episode Get Off My Cloud, with the Daleks (Daleks voiced by Peter Hawkins at that!) and the TARDIS (the actual TARDIS prop!). It's currently alluded to only in the Behind the scenes section of the article I linked to.

      Why?

      It's obviously non-DWU, since it features the Daleks as fictional creatures brought into existence because of a machine that makes a boy's imagination into reality. But it's still a BBC story where fully-licensed Daleks play a non-trivial part in the plot. And as detailed recently in the Terry Nation Army episode which brought this to mind, it even had a long-lasting impact on the Doctor Who TV series proper, as modifications were made to the TARDIS prop in Out of the Unknown which stuck for the rest of Two's run.

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    • Even more evidence that we should cover Disney Time: look at what I just found in an article in DWM 274: a screenshot of Disney Time sitting proudly next to one from the Prime Computer advertisements and other such bits of paraphernalia. Why should one of these things get a page but not the other?

      Disney Time Screenshot in DWM

      Note also that the caption, even though it refers to the Prime Computer advertisements as being "Tom and Lalla's", explicitly calls the host of Disney Time the Fourth Doctor, not Tom Baker.

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    • Just stopping by to express support for this story (as well as Get Off My Cloud, The Real McCoy, and Pakistani Dalek, all of which should be covered as invalid at minimum).

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    • Soo... what's the situation?

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Disney Time 1975 deserves to have a page here.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • A Tardis contributor
        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
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