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  • CzechOut
    CzechOut closed this thread because:
    See final post.
    22:44, January 5, 2017

    This is a proposal that might be controversial.

    I know we simplified prefixes a few years ago. I'm not asking to undo that, at all.

    What I'm suggesting is that short stories be given their own prefix. SHORT or something. PROSE would be restricted to novels, novelizations, and novellas. There's just so many short stories, and it's sometimes difficult to distinguish between a short story and a book. With the other prefixes, it's quite clear what they mean - TV is television. WC is webcast. AUDIO is an audio story. COMIC is a comic story. HOMEVID is home video. GAME is a video game. But PROSE is a catch-all for everything text-based. It doesn't tell you much, and you have to mouse over the title to see whether it's a novel or a short story. So I'm proposing we move short stories to a separate prefix - SHORT, maybe.

      Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • There has been talk in the past among some of the admin about merging TV/WC/HOMEVID into just TV or VID, as nowaday's there isn't much of a useful distinction (Night of the Doctor and Class being perfect examples of why). We have just AUDIO for anything in audio format; not AUDIO and RADIO. I see no reason to give short stories any sort of special treatment.

      When we consolidated the prefixes back in 2012, we had in mind to have the fewest possible number of prefixes, so just one for every medium.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • SOTO wrote: There has been talk in the past among some of the admin about merging TV/WC/HOMEVID into just TV or VID, as nowaday's there isn't much of a useful distinction (Night of the Doctor and Class being perfect examples of why). We have just AUDIO for anything in audio format; not AUDIO and RADIO. I see no reason to give short stories any sort of special treatment.

      When we consolidated the prefixes back in 2012, we had in mind to have the fewest possible number of prefixes, so just one for every medium.

      I agree, PROSE covers all quite nicely.

      Also, SOTO's idea of merging TV/HOMEVID/WC would be cool. It'd be a lot easier than now, and it'd follow other disambiguation terminology for stories.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • SOTO wrote: There has been talk in the past among some of the admin about merging TV/WC/HOMEVID into just TV or VID, as nowaday's there isn't much of a useful distinction (Night of the Doctor and Class being perfect examples of why).

      Yes please.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • AeD

      Not that it's a vote, but I'd vote against merging TV/HOMEVID/WC into "VID" or into anything, and would rather just see a clear guideline established for what goes where -- the distinction may not be super useful for new material in 2017, but there's still loads of material it was useful enough for that the distinction was made in the first place.

      re: SHORT: Would the new style of Big Finish Short Trips be included in "SHORT"? Because either way, that's probably gonna get messy.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Yeah I agree that either the TV, WC and HOMEVID should be merged or they should have updated definitions. Or maybe instead of merging them, we just start using TV for all iPlayer-based stories and stories on DVD extras. Either way, it'd be simpler to distinguish dab terms once an option has been taken.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • 5.150.101.80 wrote: Yeah I agree that either the TV, WC and HOMEVID should be merged or they should have updated definitions. Or maybe instead of merging them, we just start using TV for all iPlayer-based stories and stories on DVD extras. Either way, it'd be simpler to distinguish dab terms once an option has been taken.

      I apologise, the above comment is mine, I forgot to sign inĀ :)

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
    • Before we get too far afield, the topic of the thread is about whether short stories deserve their own prefix, SHORT.

      As SOTO has already pointed out, there's no reason to do so.

      Pluto2 said: I know we simplified prefixes a few years ago. I'm not asking to undo that, at all.

      But you are. You're asking for a technically complicated, multi-hour (maybe even multi-day) bot run which would discover which stories are now classed SHORT and to replace PROSE with SHORT in those cases, and only those cases.

      You're also asking for us to untangle what has been merged for years. There are many instances where people may have mixed together short stories, novelas and novels into a single citation. So you might have
      ([[PROSE]]: Short story, Novela, Novel)
      A fairly sophisticated bot run would have to be created in order to create
      ([[SHORT]]: Short story; [[PROSE]]: Novela, Novel)

      The bot run made back in the day never contemplated the idea of somehow returning to a separation of prose styles. It was meant to be permanent. There was a reasonable discussion period then and a very long time was taken to create the bots necessary to accomplish it. No markers were put in place that a bot could now look for and use. The act of separating them now is legitimately difficult.

      Besides which, all media are equal here, so this distinction being proposed is really quite against the spirit of the wiki. Whether a thing came from a short story or a novel is completely immaterial to its validity as a source -- and PROSE and SHORT are solely about sourcing.

      So we won't be doing this.

        Establishing interface with the TARDIS
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