For those using the Netflix DVD by mail and Watch Instantly services, there is an error in the upload for the online Watch Instantly edition. Instead of including the the second episode, the third episode has been loaded twice with the first instance labeled as episode two. --Raukodraug 00:05, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
Toberman Villain Edit
Should Toberman be counted as a villain in this story? He is kind of one in the beginning and is one while controlled by the Cybermen.– The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fireball99 (talk • contribs) .
- I think he's just obedient. There's no definitive indication he's even in on Klieg's scheme. You may have a point about the period under control though. It can be compared to the various instances of possession, as the retro effects clearly indicate he needs the Cyber-Controller's direct influence to act against his the Doctor and co. Sorin and Judson aren't enemies at The Curse of Fenric, nor are Korwin and Ashton at 42, so it seems in the current system, he doesn't make the enemy cut.
- You could, perhaps, circumnavigate the entire discussion for this instance by pointing out that the field says main enemy - and Toberman is certainly not that.--Skittles the hog - talk 02:17, September 24, 2014 (UTC)
Toberman was not a 'villain' in the trope sense. When the Doctor talked to him in the end, and showed him the Cybermen were evil, he latched on to that with fervor. He fought the conditioning of the Cybermen to fight them. "Evil!" Is one of the few words he used, and he said it very emotionally. So, I would vote that he is not a villain. He was misguided, and he was devoted to Kaftan, and he thought anything she wanted was right.Aragonite ☎ 02:36, September 24, 2014 (UTC)Aragonite
- Plus, the only hostile action he took was to give Klieg a whack on the head, and he wasn't exactly the nicest of blokes. Toberman doesn’t even seem to understand the moral spectrum until the Doctor’s pep talk. The whole story just implies that he’s an idiot – the raving about evil, the way the Doctor can coerce him into risking his life by doubting his courage; in his first scene he’s referred to as a “fool” as he loiters near the explosives. He’s not an enemy in my opinion.--Skittles the hog - talk 02:52, September 24, 2014 (UTC)