The 17th MasterEdit
I don't really understand why this is said to be an "error" by the article. At the time, and not considering the still-to-be-made "Utopia", it's pefectly logical to call him the 17th
- 13th - Delgado + Deadly Assassin/Keeper of Traken Master
- 14th - Ainley
- 15th - the guy "killed" by the Daleks in the pre-titles of the 1996 movie (Tipple is too tall to be mistaken for Ainley, even in his brief shot)
- 16th - Roberts
- 17th - Pryce
Moreover, the "explanation" given by the article doesn't make logical sense. It's got the "14th" ("the one who battled the Fourth") as distinct from the Delgado Master, when the Deadly Assassin dialogue all but states that its Master is the Delgado Master in a mutilated form. I've therefore removed the bit and archived it below:
- Why is The Master said to be the 17th master? If the one who came up against the Third Doctor was 13th and the one who stole the body of Tremas was 14th, then the one who battled the Eighth Doctor was 15th, then surly the one in this is the 16th and not 17th? This program is not considered to be canonical, and therefore the mention of the Master's regeneration number may simply be tongue-in-cheek. Still, The 13th Master is The one that fought the Third Doctor, however the 14th One is the one that fought The Fourth, the 15th one is the one that fought th 4th, 5th 6th and 7th Doctors, the 16th one is the one that fought the 8th. Therefore, this is technically the 17th Master.
At the time of production of "Curse" there was no continuity error, as far as I can work out. Now, if someone wants to build a case that, retroactively, a continuity crisis has set in, I suppose you could, since the Doctor's regeneration number is sorta the explicit point of the piece. But is there really a point?
- Pratt/Beevers, Ainley and Tipple must all the same version - The Eighth Doctor says in the TVM that the master's 13th body has just been destroyed by the Daleks. Thus Roberts is the 14th, making this one only the 15th. Jack's the man - 14:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Much is being made in the article of the fact that this special was supposedly webcast, but I really don't think it was. Someone simply posted a home recording of the special to the Internet in the small video files we had back then and they circulated amongst fandom, but it was not an official webcast at all. (Being a digital packrat I still have the files, four .mov clips sized 160x120 dated 1999.) I'm not sure whether the BBC was even doing webcasts yet in 1999. Rob T Firefly 20:26, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Part of the DWU Edit
Surely this is part of the DW universe. If the Eighth Doctor saw parts of this event in the Tomorrow Window as a possible future of his, doesn't that mean that it is canon on some level? I mean, when the eighth Doctor's face first appeared, we took it to mean that the 1996 movie was canon, even though there was still debate amongst some other fans. So why wouldn't this be any different? The Thirteenth Doctor 13:09, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
- I agree, the story is just part of an alternate timeline, the gallifrey chronicles gives a similar view of this Doctor too. Revanvolatrelundar 13:12, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
- I disagree, this story was never canon. It was a parody special plain and simple, and was never meant to be anything more than that so far as the DWU is concerned. The references in those novels were nice little nods to the spoof, but nothing sufficient to canonise it as part of the DWU.
- Even putting the spoof element aside for the moment, compare Scream of the Shalka. That Ninth Doctor was subsumed in canon by the TV Ninth Doctor, rendering the whole story non-canonical and outside the DWU. The fact that since this special Doctor Who has had other Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Doctors similarly subsumes this. Rob T Firefly 17:33, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
- I agree with The Thirteenth Doctor.
- I also agree with Rob T Firefly, it wasn't originally intended to be canon.
- But that doesn't stop it from being brought into canon by novels that came after it.
- If we use The Tomorrow Windows/The Gallifrey Chronicles as our info to prove this is canon then Scream of the Shalka also becomes just as canon.
- I'm not against both Fatal Death and Shalka being re-included back into canon. Notes should be placed on both stories stories' pages stating that there's some contention about their canon-ness, but whichever novels that followed do suggest these events occurred in an alternate timeline (or something to that effect). --Tangerineduel 17:52, September 27, 2010 (UTC)