The Timeless Children (TV story)

I don't think this is the place for me, or anyone, to go into the Timeless Child arc. I like it, in fact I like it more the more I think about it, but this isn't really the place for that. There's more to these episodes than just that. Ascension of the Cybermen is (apart from World Enough and Time) my favourite Cyber-story since the 1960s. Their new design is magnificent, as is that of the Cybermasters. Sacha Dhawan is fantastic once again, as is Jodie Whittaker. There are two things I really adore however. 1) The story with Brendan. I remember being fascinated by it the first time around, thinking he was going to turn out to be Ashad. It's a great mystery, with a genuinely sinister climax. 2) Bravo to Segun Akinola for fitting in the theme tune mid-episode.

I understand Davies isn't going to retcon the Timeless Child arc, but in a few years time, a future writer/showrunner could use my theory.

We know Ruth comes before the 13th Doctor, and 2 popular theories include her being pre-Hartnell, and the other being her being in between the second and third Doctor. However, both of these are flawed as Ruth's TARDIS is stuck as a police box, and the first Doctor was the one who first realised this, while Ruth being between 2 and 3 doesn't work as it would mean that David Tennant wouldn't be able to regenerate into Matt Smith since his aborted regeneration in The Stolen Earth was supposed to be the last one, rather than 11's regeneration in Time of The Doctor.

So, here is my idea. We never saw the old 11th Doctor deaging back to his younger self at the end of Time of The Doctor, so this could very well have been where the Fugitive Doctor appeared. She might have flew the TARDIS out of Trenzalore, lived her secret life then regenerated. The Time Lords never disclosed how many extra regenerations the Doctor got in Hell Bent, so who knows if Ruth had regenerated several times before regenerating back into Matt Smith's Doctor, returning to Clara where he would become Peter Capaldi's Doctor. This would also mean that the Curator's promise of revisiting old faces in the 50th anniversary special would be fulfilled a lot sooner!

Before you ask, Ruth could have changed the TARDIS interior to the one seen in Series 12 back to 11's before she returned to Clara. As for 13 not recognising Ruth, the Doctor could always have lost his/her memory after Ruth's incarnation died.

Any flaws you find in this idea are welcome to be shared so I can improve the idea.

Let me preface this by saying that I know a LOT of people despise this series. I do too! Orphan 55 is genuinely one of the stupidest episodes I have ever seen and the make-up on Hyphen is just awful. The timeless child arc and the revolution of the daleks special that basically retconned the entirety of the show really disappointed me. That being said, however, I really feel like it received too much hate. If you disagree with me, I totally understand! I'd just like to know why you think that, because I'll be presenting my favorite parts of the series. Let me know what you think!

SPYFALL

Honestly I really really liked this episode. Jodie was finally given a competent script that showcased her talents and I could see a little bit of the Doctor finally shining through! The visuals and direction were absolutely SPECTACULAR. The camerawork and CGI were beautiful to behold. The eiffel tower scene was BEAUTIFUL, but the plot was fairly complicated. However, I really did enjoy it. But it kind of annoyed me how they completely destroyed the character of Missy for a one-off (sort of) villain.

FUGITIVE OF THE JUDOON

It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great. Really really interesting implications and I was hooked. The Captain Jack teasing did annoy me, though. I wish they'd actually made him a part of the episode because I didn't appreciate that. I did enjoy the episode, though. Jo Martin had an interesting take on the doctor that I've grown to appreciate.

PRAXEUS

Chibnall got a little too pushy on the plot with the ethics and morals, but I did enjoy it when I first watched it! The plot drew me in and I liked the characters and ideas it used. I totally understand if you didn't though, it did have some flaws.

CAN YOU HEAR ME?

I didn't hate it but upon my first watch I kind of enjoyed it, I guess? Pretty engaging story but the Doctor talking to herself kind of annoyed me. I didn't like that, I thought it was weird. That being said, though, I kind of enjoyed it in a way!

THE HAUNTING OF VILLA DIODATI

I really really really liked this episode! The suspense, the VFX, and Ashad were incredible to see and I really liked it.

ASCENSION OF THE CYBERMAN/TIMELESS CHILDREN

Again, as I've said before, stunning CGI and effects. It was beautiful to watch and I loved the visuals. However, the direction they chose was really strange. I appreciated the cyberman redesign but the choice to DESTROY gallifrey, AGAIN, was ridiculous. We'd finally gotten it back, and Chris decided to write it off! That really really really bugged me and I was very irritated. Howevever, it did make for a good watch, and the scene where the Doctor overloaded the matrix with her thoughts was super cool. The Boundary was really weak writing and I definitely agree with the idea that the Timeless Child should've been the Master. Annoyed me for sure, but it was fun to watch and I really enjoyed it despite the stupid storywriting.

What did you think? I'm really interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this! I've never posted to a Doctor Who community and I'm really nervous. I totally understand if you disagree, I'd LOVE to hear your takes on it. I'm really curious to hear y'all's opinions. I hope you have a lovely day :)

Okay, well, most of us, including me, aren't really fond of the Timeless Child. But I can't deny that it does give way for some really fascinating theories.

So, here's another one. I know it has many faults, but I just like to think about this.

Remember how the Doctor always wanted to be ginger. Well, maybe he/she was ginger earlier. And guess who's the ginger incarnation? AMY POND! Well, i know it doesnt really make sense but think about it a little. The crack opened first on Amy's wall. The timelords wanted to send a message to the Doctor. So, what if Amy WAS THE DOCTOR...maybe thats why it opened in her bedroom. Or maybe young Amy never existed and the Time Lords just altered the Doctor's mind about that to avoid paradox (i know doesnt make sense at all, but thats Doctor Who). Now this could also be a better explanation as to why River was a Time Lord. And well, whenever Time Lords regenerate, their entire genetic code changes... so they are not exactly related (this just became even more weird, i'm sorry) But even the Master was attracted to Missy

Let me know your thoughts about it, I know this does not sound good at all, but thinking about this fascinates me

In the Matrix redaction of the Timeless Child of Gallifreyan history it is clearly shown that Brendan is adopted by two individuals.

With minor details it would be easy to disregard but this seems pretty significant to me, and even if it were not there seems to have been less significant details represented in the Brendan projection.

So I was just wondering who you thought this figure may be, seeing as the only Shobogan we heard about was Tecteun, but it definitely seems as though there should've been at least one other significant figure, Shobogan or not, in the life of the Timeless child.

With the Doctor being cast as a timeless child and the origin of the time lord with infinite Regenerations does this mean that Jenny - a clone of the Doctor and only the Doctor- is a timeless child too?

Hi,

I wonder, whether we should actually accept the timeless child stuff (including Tecteun, etc,) as canon: In my opinion, this all comes from a highly untrustable source, because it is narrated by the master?

Jochen

So naturally when I wanted to take a break from Doctor Who, my brain goes in overdrive, especially since this episode doesn't make sense (at this point). But here's two ideas I came up with:

1) Why does the Master have such a thing with Cybermen? Maybe on some level he remembers being converted in the alternate timeline in "Supremacy of the Cybermen," and so when he killed them in the Death Zone or took control of them in "Dark Water" and on the colony ship and on Gallifrey, he's just getting revenge. Same reason he has a death warrant in the Cyber-Empire.

2) What is/are the Timeless Child/ren? From what I understand, there was a Time Lord called "the Other" who was a founder of Gallifrey, and at some point some essence of him was reincarnated (not regenerated) as "the Doctor." So my thinking now is that maybe the Timeless Child and the Other are one and the same. Not sure how Ruth would fit in, one problem at a time, but then the child/other would be a distinct enough and separate entity from "the Doctor" as we know him.

SPOILERS

So, with that timeless child reveal thing.

Do you think that between seasons 24 and 25, the 7th doctor found out the truth about the timeless child? Hence "I am far more than just another timelord.

And the REAL reason that he was called back to Gallifrey in the movie was to wipe his memory. Which explains why he was stupid enough not to check the scanner? (This fits in with how he decided the best option was to dangle off a cliff in 'Dragonfire')

Just an Idea.

Share your thoughts on that explosive season finale, and your predictions for where the Doctor will venture next season.

I guess it's a good thing we never got to see the Cartmel Masterplan. I mean, I know it's in the Virgin New Adventures, but like...wow, that was weird to see on television. It's like when Kevin Clarke came up with the idea for "Silver Nemesis" - Who is the Doctor? The Doctor is God.

I don't want the Doctor to be God. The Doctor is special in his/her own way, and at least with the Other some distant past incarnation helped create the Time Lords, but this Timeless Child being responsible for all Time Lords and regeneration...I don't like it, and you can always retcon it later, I guess, or change it, but then it's been reiterated everything's about to change. The Doctor is the reason there are Time Lords, being from another universe wherever the "true" Time Lords are, and has lived for however many lives, none of which we'll know for sure, so good luck making those stories Big Finish.

Watching Cybermen on Gallifrey and the Master offering an alliance just kept making me think of "Supremacy of the Cybermen" which was far more entreating. What is this insistence on putting the Cybermen and the Master together? I'm tired of Cybermen being subservient to the Master. I'm tired of "delete delete." I'm tired of that stupid way the Cybermen march together and that marching sound effect. And the Doctor did a great job in this episode, the way she stood there and listened and watched.

There are two great things from this episode: the Morbius flashback (because classic series is cool and it ties in with previous lives) and the Master quietly lamenting he's still alive. I don't like this Master at all, all I see is John Simm being a lunatic, but that moment where you see a deeper part of him that's suicidal, that stood out.

So...yeah, I think I'm gonna take a break. It'll be like the classic series, I'll read the wikia without seeing any episodes. It's not like "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship", that story actually made me rage-quit for a year. I just haven't cared for the last few seasons and this episode just made me feel tired.

So, what do we call the incarnations of The Doctor now? Since there’s so many unknown regenerations, is the First Doctor still the First Doctor? And are the other incarnations still the same numbers? Or will we separate the pre-Hartnell, and post-Hartnell Doctors? It’s so confusing.

Is it just me or before the death partical went of I herd the master say get threw here quickly.