Talk:The Stolen Earth/Archive 1

Why
The first Dalek to shoot the doctor, named Dalek Fred, in tribute to the Dalek Supreme (see http://www.casamai.com/fred.html) should have his own page. why does it keep getting deleted?
 * Because the name 'Fred' is just an internet meme and we don't know the Dalek's name really. So what would we call the article? That one Dalek who shot the Doctor but got blown up by Captain Jack Harkness seconds later Sir Hat-a-lot 20:39, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

RTD and Gallifrey
Was RTD the one that came up with the idea that Gallifrey was destroyed? Tweedle dee 23:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes I belive so. The idea had been used before in the spin off novels but the Time War mentioned in the currant series was his idea. (I seem to remember there was a planned story which would feature the destruction of Gallifrey for the old series but it was replaced with the Trial of a Time Lord arc.

Cast
Has the official cast list been released yet? I am dying to know who that old woman in the black dress, standing in front of the judoon, was.
 * She is a Shadow Architect...one of the people that oversees the Shadow ProclamationTweedle dee 14:06, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Next Week
Is it a double bill next week? The Stolen Earth and Journey's End?Tweedle dee 02:43, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you mean broadcast back to back then I don't think it will be Jack's the man - 14:10, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I did hear a rumor it would be but I'm now seeing proof that it will be The Stolen Earth this week and Journey's End next week. Tweedle dee 14:14, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

vandalism
The page was vandalised, I tried to fix it, undoing wouldn't work, and now when I fixed it, it turned out horribly as you can see and I don't know how to fix it. So if someone else could, here's everything: --Sir Koji 12:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Hows this look? Tweedle dee 14:00, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This vandalism was done by 87.84.143.30. Did said person get blocked? --AnimeNoKyouran 23:29, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Character changes
Luke Smith looks way older in these episodes(with awesome hair, just like the Doctor!)


 * Heh. I agree -- AnimeNoKyouran 23:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Hitchhiker's reference
I removed the following line from References: This is not true. the Daleks were saying "resistance is useless" before Hitchhiker's was written, in the First Doctor serial the Dalek Invasion of Earth. Just saying. ;) --&mdash;  beeurd  talk 21:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The Dalek phrase "resistance is useless" echoes the Vogon guards in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

The Mr Copper Foundation
Did anyone else catch Harriet Jones' reference to 'The Mr Copper Foundation' in this episode? I have a feeling it's Mr Copper, as he was left behind by the Doctor in the Voyage of the Damned, and I remember reading somewhere that someone said about somebody from that episode being explained a bit more. I reckon this is gonna be important in Journey's End, or in the coming series/specials -- HimWithTheHair 21:44, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Transferring control
When Harriet Jones transfers control of the subwave network to Torchwood, the map shown on the monitor is of Swansea, not Cardiff. Any reason for this?Louis77 21:51, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I checked this out more closely; the area in the circle is in fact the library used for Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead (or as close to that as can be worked out from an SDTV image; anyone have an HD version?) Cheers, 213.107.1.54 12:38, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

A race has tried to move the Earth before...
Is this not a reference to the dalek invasion of earth original/film where the daleks planned to hollow out the earth so they could fly it around as a spaceship?
 * Yep, it is. :) &mdash;  beeurd  talk 19:46, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


 * But didn't the Cybermen try to do the same thing in The Tenth Planet? User:Steed 20:23, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * They piloted their home planet of Mondas around for an unspecified amount of time before bringing it to Earth. When they got to Earth, they tried to drain its energy to "refuel" Mondas (there was too much of it though so they ended up blowing up Mondas...oops.) Of course there was another race who tried to move the Earth once before, and succeeded - the Time Lords. User:Spreee

Discontinuity note
I added a note about a continuity glitch with Martha's bluetooth headset, but I'm not really happy with how it's worded. If anyone can improve the wording and flow, feel free. 24.141.60.1 07:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I removed this note. It's not an error, and thus doesn't belong in the section.  When things "disappear" just because an actor is filmed from an angle that would naturally obscure the object, that's really not an error.  Now, if the headset had mysteriously jumped from her left ear to her right ear, then we might have something.  But clearly, if you film an OSS on the left side of a person, an earpiece in the right ear isn't going to be visible.  Czech Out   ☎ | ✍  23:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The article previously listed this as a discontinuity note:
 * The TARDIS didn't translate the Judoon language, though the Doctor could understand and speak it. 'This could have been similar to the Hath. This may also have been done to give a bit of humour to a much serious episode. Later in the episode we can understand the Judoon, maybe it just takes time to work. Maybe it can not be translated into English because there is no English for it, it is clear that it is used as some form of clearance code, or something along those lines. Or perhaps Translations are not used in the Shadow Proclamation for legal reasons. Or Doctor understands Judoon language(as being able to respond to Judoons), so no need to translate. Or maybe it translated for the Doctor and Donna, but didn't translate for us, the viewers, because the way Donna looks at the Doctor when he is speaking seems as though she understands him. Also, the Judoon are probably actually speaking English later on in the scene, since in Smith and Jones, the Judoon used a human's words to be able to speak English. Also the "Judoon-Speak" may have only been developed and widely used after the construction of the Doctor's TARDIS meaning that it would not be programmed into the translation circuit.  "Ma-Ho" has been suspected of being similar to his line in The End of the World of "She's my plus-one." or similar introduction of his companion after presenting his personal credentials.''
 * The original editor(s) spent so much time trying to spin elaborate (and frankly, quite infeasible) reasons to "plug the hole", they ignored the obvious: there is no hole.  It's in complete continuity with "Smith and Jones", if viewed from the Judoon perspective.  They need to use their computers to establish what language is being spoken before they can communicate with someone speaking another language.  There wasn't time for that to have occurred immediately upon the Doctor's landing.  So the TARDIS translation circuits were working perfectly.  They were translating for the people being addressed.  Wouldn't make sense for it to have been in any other language BUT Judoon, really.  Is it an unusual perspective from which to show the circuit working?  Yes.  Is it discontinuous?  No.  Czech Out   ☎ | ✍  23:18, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Darlek Fred?
Why is the Darlek who 'exterminated' the Doctor called Fred in this article? Where does 'Fred' come from? I thought ordinary Darleks didn't have names anyway.-- 08:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

-I've also heard the name Dalek 'Kest' running around (specifically on Jack Harkness' page) Just for clarification, where are these names coming from? 86.165.95.231 09:52, 1 July 2008 (UTC). link title


 * Dalek Fred is just a meme that's going round the internet at the moment. Dalek Kest sounds more likely. I suggest checking the article and EX-TERM-IN-ATING all references to Dalek Fred. Sir Hat-a-lot 20:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh My God. That was so lame. Yet, I laughed. That is so sad.. I just know I'm a nerd, now. -- AnimeNoKyouran 23:21, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Lame puns are my speciality. Sir Hat-a-lot 23:16, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

There are four Daleks with names, they are from the Cult of Skaro

Yeah, not every Dalek has a name, if we want a page for it, couldn't it be called "Unidentified Dalek (New Dalek Empire)"? Drophyd167b 13:35, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

I think Fred really deserves a mention even just as fan culture.

The first mention of Dalek Fred I can find is in the Death of Time. Ian and the Doctor both refer to the Dalek they threw in a hole as "Fred."

Where's the rest of the summary
The summary looks like it's been cut in half. Where's the rest of it? -- 69.42.6.55 02:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Calling... The Doctor
I love that we've got that figure from the Daily Mail. If I live in Britain, I probably would have tried, too. What would have been really interesting would be if David Tennant answered some of the calls, acting as the Doctor. -- AnimeNoKyouran 23:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Is there news, of him?
This is probably my favorite dialog of all time. I have transcribed here for reference. I would like to note that in the Plot summary on the wiki page it says "The three-fold man. He dances in the Universe." What I heard was the "pre-formed man" and "He dances in the lonely places". I'm not certain about "three-form" or "pre-formed," but I am certain about lonely places. Also I think my transcribing makes much more sense contextually. (The doctor is pre-formed, get it?, before his formation, i.e., regeneration and subsequent spawning of a new doctor or whatever you want to call that.) Also, "dances in the lonely places" makes much more sense given the theme of the Doctors loneliness through the arc. Thoughts?

Here is the complete scene, as best I can make out...

SUPREME DALEK: Commence the landings bring the humans here prepare the crucible

DAVROS: Supreme Dalek, is there news?

SUPREME DALEK: Earth has been subjugated.

DAVROS: I mean, is there news of him?

SUPREME DALEK: Negative. No reports of time-lord. We are beyond the Doctor's reach.

DAVROS: Fascinating. If I had not elevated you beyond crude emotions I could almost mistake that tone for one of victory. Beware your pride.

SUPREME DALEK: The Doctor cannot stop us.

DAVROS: And yet, Dalek Caan is uneasy.

SUPREME DALEK: The abomination is insane.

DAVROS: Show respect! Without Dalek Caan none of this would be possible. And he speaks only the truth.

DALEK CAAN: He is coming. The pre-formed man. He dances in the lonely places. Oh, creator of us all. The doctor is coming!


 * It was "three-fold man", but it was also "dances in the lonely places". The "three-fold man" part presumably refers to the two Doctors and Donna with the Time Lord consciousness. 06:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It was definately "three-fold man". User:Steed 17:18, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Doctor, Human Doctor and DoctorDonna

Temporal Pocket
Is it worth noting that the Medusa Cascade being a second out of synch with real time is just like the sontarans and the cars (just saw SS again.)?


 * Explain about the Sontarans and the cars being out of sync. I don't understand. User:Steed 17:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

The pockets that contain the ATMOS gas. The Doctor says he couldn't see it before because he didn't know what to look for, and that the Sontaran devices are a second out of synch with real-time, making it difficult to find. In the Stolen Earth, the Doctor can't find the Medusa Cascade because he says the Daleks moved it a second out of synch. It should be in the synopsis for the Sontaran Stratagem.

Harriet Jones
Why isn't Harriet Jones listed as a companion? She helped the Doctor to an extent that would classify her as a companion, in numerous episides (Aliens of London, World War Three, The Christmas Invasion, The Stolen Earth? Sir Hat-a-lot 17:55, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see how she can count. She isn't listed in any list of companions from the BBC, and that's really what we should use . Jack's the man - 13:37, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

What happens without a Moon?
The idea that the sudden absence of the Moon would cause huge earthquakes, tidal waves and cause the Earth to "fall apart" is simply ludicrous. Tidal movement would fade away - no more high and low tides, but the decay wuold be gradual over days or weeks, as the large-scale water movements that cause tides lost impetus.

Rapid changes in the Earth's velocity - normally about 29.7 Km/sec - would cause the effects described, but that could be avoided if the Daleks teleported the Earth to the Medusa Cascade.

If the Earth is considered as travelling in a straight line, with the circular motion of the Earth around the Sun being due to curvature of space caused by the mass of the sun - Einstein and all that) then it may be possible to teleport it from one point in the universe to another without affecting that velocity. It would appear in the Medusa cascade, still moving at the same velocity, but no longer orbiting the Sun. It would then begin to be affected by the gravity of the other planets, but any changes in velocity may still be gradual enough to not cause huge tidal waves and things. Something the size of the Earth has a good deal of inertia, causeing the changes to happen comparatively slowly. An astrophysicist could probably work it out with several pages of equations, but not me.

The trip back, being towed by the TARDIS, is more problematical, as it appears that the Earth underwent high acceleration on leaving the Cascade.

Complete removal of Discontinuity
An IP user completely removed the Discontinuity Sections for this article and for Journey's End. There is a note over in the Panopticon at Forum:Discontinuity_sections from the same user, but wholesale deletion of a large swath of an article almost looks like vandalism to me, so I'm going to restore both. --Raukodraug 21:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I haven't invaded
Hi fellow Whovians,

Those of you who watch this page constantly will know that I have simply changed the grammatical errors to this page. I haven't invaded nor have I changed stuff so don't worry. I know my stuff because I am a proof-reader so I'd be happy if you could "trust me on this" (get the in-joke?). Nevertheless, I think it's important to, maybe, pause before you hit "publish" and read it through a couple of times, thinking about the punctuation (e.g. do you know when apostrophes are and aren't used- posession is a yes but plural is a no) and also- have you left words out by accident? I added the word "Jack" into a bullet point in the Continuity because it inferred that the Doctor was the one inserting the digits into the Vortex Manipulator when it was Jack (as you probably know).

ALSO- not to patronise any of you here but another couple of points before I go and do sleep-related stuff- (because it is half past three in the morning here): Sorry for the ramble but it's important to take this all onboard when creating absolutely smashing articles. '''If in doubt, talk about it in the Talk Page. :-) '''Thefartydoctor 02:32, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) This is a British programme and I'm going to ask you not to use American words, phrases or spellings when and if possible. "Cell phone" is an example, which I changed to "mobile phone". It just retains the British feel of the show, if you know what I mean.
 * 2) In the Production Errors- don't just state an error like it's fact and that's the end of it. Sometimes they are done on purpose (like the Doctor talking to a Judoon in their native tongue) and sometimes they are mistakes but can be justified on second thought (such as the British fire exit in New York). Just think about your wording and after a point, in Italics, put a possible explanation as to this. There may be no possible reasons but try. Finally, make sure that these possibilities are explained as possibilites because although it may justify it in your world, others may not wish to accept this as fact.