Talk:AAAGH! (DWA 248 comic story)

Mrs Poggit
"It is not stated to be Mrs Poggit and doesn't resemble her appearance."


 * Compare that to the Eknodine seen in this AAAGH! issue (who also previously appeared in another AAAGH! issue). It just appears to be an old lady with grey hair and earrings, the clothing looks nothing like Mrs. Poggit wore, and so I don't think we can say with certainty that they are the same character. DrWHOCorrieFan ☎  22:47, 15 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm gonna be real with you. The AAAGH! Eknodine looks more like Mrs. Poggit than the Monster Invasion one. I think we can clearly infer authorial intent based on clothing from the latter, but let's not say that it "just appears to be an old lady with grey hair and earrings". It's a dead ringer. Najawin ☎  23:05, 15 October 2022 (UTC)


 * First of all, do not tell me what I can and cannot say.


 * The only comparison between Mrs Poggit and this Eknodine IS that they are both old women with grey hair and earrings. If the intent was that this was the same character they could have easily had her in the outfit seen in the episode, as the artist did for Monsters Invasion, this was not the case. When the writer/artist specifically want a character/alien to be seen as their television counterpart they have in the past had them wearing the exact costume from the episode and even stated that this character was the same one, case in point when Bannakaffalatta showed up in issue 29 and shouting "Bannakaffalatta help too! Wheee!".


 * If we identify this character as someone that they are specifically not stated to be (and don't even look like) where does it stop? Do we have to identify the random Abzorbalovian from issue 12 as the same one from Love and Monsters? Does every Ood have to be Ood Sigma? Ood Sigma even had a unique costume to make him distinguishable from the other Ood, but apparently costumes don't matter any more. DrWHOCorrieFan ☎  23:27, 15 October 2022 (UTC)


 * This is a wildly confusing line of thought. You're conflating characters that are portrayed by people who are either under heavy amounts of makeup or in prosthetics/costume with characters who are, well, not. Moreover, your assertion that they don't look like the character is just "uh, they don't have the same clothing". Let me note that I had previously added a potential thread on this for The List, so this isn't something I even particularly care about, we're just waiting for movement at Tardis talk:Temporary forums. I'm just taking umbrage to the idea that they don't look similar. They do. idgaf about the rest, that's a larger issue I want to discuss elsewhere. But they definitely look alike. Najawin ☎  23:37, 15 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Your form of discussion is outrageous. Enough with the sly remarks attempting to make someone's argument sound dumb. I'm not here trying to mimic your argument with the whole "Uh" shtick, and the "idgaf" thing is completely inappropriate. If you feel the need to get involved with every discussion on this site perhaps you should learn how to discuss things without being so passive aggressive?


 * They look like two old women, that is where the similarity ends. DrWHOCorrieFan ☎  23:43, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

In the past 7 days there have been, I think fifteen or so talk pages edited. I've commented on five of them. This is a bizarre accusation. I'm not here to litigate who's being more passive aggressive, I think anyone reading this can come to their own conclusions about overreactions to comments like "let's not say". I'll say no more on the subject.

Regardless, if two independent users are telling you they look similar, perhaps there's a further similarity you miss? I clicked on the talk page, the second picture caught my attention, and I instantly thought "oh, what's that character from Amy's Choice doing here". That was my immediate thought, prior to seeing the other picture or reading the context. Again. I do not care about this issue. If you object strongly to "idgaf", something that I can't understand the objection to, but, well, w/e, "I don't care in the slightest about the rest of the discussion". And with that I take my leave. Najawin ☎  00:03, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * You see someone giving their opinion and you decide to say "let's not say that"? It isn't an overreaction to tell you not to tell me what to say, you are not an amin - something I think you need reminding - so you can disagree with my opinion all you like but don't tell me not to say it. And when I don't back down from my valid opinion don't try to mock me with the whole quotation marks "Uh", etc. It is completely inappropriate.


 * At the end of the day two users agreeing on something doesn't make them correct. To me, other than the hair (which even that is combed to the completely wrong side) and earrings the characters are nothing alike, my example of the Monsters Invasion art shows how easy the character's costume could have been translated should the artist have wished to portray them as the same character. Perhaps your initial recognition was subconsciously down to the protruding eyestalk rather than the completely unrelated character's appearance? Without the eyestalk it is doubtful anyone would have clocked these as being the same individual.


 * Also, if you can't understand an objection to swearing, even in internet slang, in a supposedly civil discussion perhaps you seriously do need to think about learning how to better communicate with people? I don't want to see it and I certainly don't want it directed at me. DrWHOCorrieFan ☎  00:19, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Corrie, respectfully, is everything okay? This has to be the, I dunno, dozenth time in the last months that, after encountering harmless disagreement on a talk page, you've used a perceived "passive aggressive" slight to go on the attack. What if, when someone is confused by a comment, the response should be to clarify rather than to call them "outrageous" and "inappropriate"? What if "let's not say" is a common colloquial expression, rather than an earnest attempt to restrict your speech – but also, what if you're right that restricting others' speech is silly, even in the case of mild swearing? And what if tone is never perfectly clear in the written medium, and you can find passive aggressiveness anywhere if you set out to look for it? In fact, T:FAITH says explicitly that perceived passive aggressiveness does not justify outright aggression, and that all of us are required to seek non-passive-aggressive interpretations in others' comments. It seems to me that lashing out, in self defense or otherwise, whenever anyone disagrees with you – even as they try to deescalate! – is simply not a productive way to engage with other users on this wiki. I say this without any malice, so please take it as a friendly suggestion; I'd hate to see you repeat DiSoRiEnTeD1's mistakes.


 * As for the actual topic at hand, I agree with WaltK that we'd be safe to conclude that the character in question is Mrs Poggit. – n8 (☎) 03:55, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * You are not an admin, so respectfully I am completely disregarding your first comment. It is not your place to challenge my behaviour on somethin which doesn't involve you - whereas I think that I am totally within my rights to challenge Najawin's behaviour when it is being directed at me (if he wishes to continue discussing things civilly with me). You accusing me of repeatedly "going on the attack" is hardly T:FAITH, but I'd be personally interested if you would leave some examples of my talkpage.


 * As for the topic at hand I will leave it up to an admin to decide, but I am standing firm on the fact that the similarities end at this being an old woman with grey hair and earrings (which is hardly a major identifying factor as the Eknodine are known to inhabit elderly women). Any other time that the writer/artist want a character to be explicitly recognised as the one seen on screen they a) have them in their original costume or b) identify them as such. This happens with; Madame Vastra, Jenny Flint, Bannakaffalatta, Abigail Pettigrew, the Saxon Master, and countless others. Jabe is seen in exercise gear in one issue but is identified as the character. DrWHOCorrieFan ☎  09:54, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * You're right, I'm obviously not an admin; I am, however, someone who's wasted spent a lot of time on this wiki and other wikis, so I was trying to offer friendly advice on how you might better achieve your goals. But if you're determined to repeat history (again), so be it. I submit in my defence that I have not violated T:FAITH, but if I were to compile a list of evidence such as you propose, it would go on an admin's talk page, not yours.


 * As for the actual topic at hand, cheers for spelling out your objection. After consideration, I agree with WaltK that we'd be safe to conclude that the character in question is Mrs Poggit. – n8 (☎) 17:30, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

I've said all I care to say on the subject, I have no interest in the larger discussion, and any further discussion would almost assuredly be needlessly hostile. I had written up a defense of myself prior to Nate's original comment but deleted it when I decided that it would solve nothing and would simply make matters worse. I can give as good as I get, but for the sake of everyone on this wiki I've bowed out. Najawin ☎  20:11, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't want to get involved with yet another vocal disagreement between y'all — although I want to point out that everyone should consider people's comments to come from a well-meaning place, not of malice, like a version of Hanlon's razor (assume good faith dammit!) — and instead only want to contribute to the matter of whether or not this character is Mrs Poggit.


 * In my opinion, yes, she very much is. The likeness of the AAAGH! illustration is a dead ringer in my eyes — consider the face shape, the exact wrinkles on her face, especially those around her mouth, and her hair having the exact same hairline — and to consider them separate characters based upon merely what they're wearing is preposterous; people don't wear the exact same clothes every single day of their lives, this isn't The Simpsons!


 * Furthermore, in this very same story, Mrs Tinkle is wearing a festive outfit. Does this mean she's a separate character because the illustrator decided to not go with her normal appearance thus meaning the illustrator had no intent of the characters being one and the same? Of course they didn't. 20:56, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * That argument has already been answered. Mrs Tinkle is identified as the character, so is for example Jabe when she is seen wearing exercise clothing in another issue. This character isn't identified as Poggit nor does her being Poggit affect the plot. DrWHOCorrieFan ☎  21:35, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Not sure the discussion about Mrs Poggit is concluded, really, and whether or not the character is Mrs Poggit is the entire point of this talk page, so you can't just dismiss it... 21:45, 16 October 2022 (UTC)


 * When did I say the discussion was concluded or dismiss anything? I simply pointed out that your last argument; "Does this mean she's a separate character because the illustrator decided to not go with her normal appearance thus meaning the illustrator had no intent of the characters being one and the same?", had already been answered earlier on. DrWHOCorrieFan ☎  21:50, 16 October 2022 (UTC)