Talk:Fred/Archive 1

Non-canon?
Why is this not part of the Doctor Who universe as well? As with Ninth Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death), unless there is something that directly contradicts the TV show, I don't see how it isn't part of the DWU? It comes from what we consider to be a canon source, and as far as I know, doesn't contradict anything. Does anyone disagree? --The Thirteenth Doctor 23:22, October 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * We're maybe slightly inconsistent with what unlicensed productions we present on this wiki. It was a shock to see the edits of unregistered users adding all this Audio Visuals material to the page when creating a page at the Doctor Who Expanded wiki and adding a link at the bottom to this page would be more appropriate. They really need the page!


 * Unless Party Animals wasn't canon, it is hard to imagine how this guy isn't, though.

--Nyktimos 23:58, October 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is part of the DW universe as far as the BBV and DWM stuff goes, any information gleaned from the Audio Visuals stuff isn't canon and therefore shouldn't be included. As Nyktimos says we can link out to DW Expanded with this information. --Tangerineduel 13:32, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Moved AV content to DWE wiki. --Nyktimos 03:20, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow. What a mess. See, what's happened here is that people have made the mistake of believing that if it's a Doctor-like character played by Nick Briggs, it's all the same as the guy in Party Animals. And that's in no way true.
 * The Party Animals Doctor appeared in one thing and one thing only: Party Animals. Is Animals canonical? I think that's at least up for debate. It certainly reads like a parody to me. I mean, Bart Simpson does appear in it, for cryin' out loud. It's really rather the comics equivalent of this year's opening NTA sketch. Or Dimensions in Time.
 * The AV Doctor is quite beyond our remit. He's fully fan fiction and therefore in no way to be examined by this wiki.
 * The BBV "Doctor" isn't the Doctor at all. He's a character named Fred, who may well bear a striking similarity to the Doctor, but obviously can't be the Doctor. BBV had no permission to make fiction involving the Doctor, so therefore Fred is not the Doctor. Our tardis:canon policy needs clarification on this point, but BBV should be considered canonical only as far as they use characters and races for which they received legal clearance from a rights holder. At no point did the BBC ever clear the usage of the Doctor. Just didn't happen. So trying to equate "Fred" with "the Doctor" is a nonsense. A new article at Fred (which I've just made a broken redirect) needs to be written.

Rename
I've put this up for a rename as since the Audio Visuals are not canon, we'll need another way to identify him. I suppose it would be The Doctor (Party Animals). The Thirteenth Doctor 14:46, October 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * That seems like the best disambig name to go with. --Tangerineduel 14:48, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Fred, Cyber Hunt Vital Signs
Is it enough that the character of Fred is played by Nick Briggs to say 'Fred' the amnesiac traveller and this Doctor are the same individual? In the article it's fairly vague about whether or not it is. --Tangerineduel 15:44, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Per this interview with Briggs that was apparently Bill Baggs' intent, but the result is less clear on the matter by design. Possibly worth noting under "Behind the scenes," if not the canon section? Rob T Firefly 19:56, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think place it in the behind the scenes. It's fairly unclear, unless there's something really definite to connect them. --Tangerineduel 14:18, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Fred audio Cyber-Hunt makes a link with the AudioVisuals audio Justyce, where "Fred" references the planet Solaados. The same planet that was used by name in the Justyce story. There's also another reference where Fred references Truman and Ria, two companions of the AudioVisuals Doctor. 203.219.199.30 03:30, July 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Fred audio Cyber-Hunt makes a link with the AudioVisuals audio Justyce, where "Fred" references the planet Solaados. The same planet that was used by name in the Justyce story. There's also another reference where Fred references Truman and Ria, two companions of the AudioVisuals Doctor. 203.219.199.30 03:30, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

Forum discussion
What the forum should be linked to:

Hey, i was just looking at the Doctor (Party Animals) page and it doesn't seem to include the Audio Visuals appearances in the infobox yet the BBV ones are there. Are they a special case? (although like BBV they are also fan made) as a passage on the article states:

"During the course of the AudioVisuals story Planet of Lies, the Daleks succeed in destroying Gallifrey. When this version of the Doctor meets the Seventh Doctor, he obliquely hints at this"

This could be seen as bringing those stories into "alternate timeline" status similar to what the Tomorrow Windows did to the Shalka Doctor et al.

I just thought that i would run it by you before doing anything. Revanvolatrelundar 21:32, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

The AV stories aren't canon, they're fan audios. There was a discussion relating to this on the Talk:The Doctor (Party Animals) page.

The BBV stories were made by a production company (you can't really call it "fan made" using the definition it was made by fans of the programme, if you used that definition then the BBC Wales series is fan made because likely more than half the production team are fans). --Tangerineduel / talk 13:13, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Removing the entire BTS section
The whole of the behind the scenes section was basically just full of misinformation, half-truths and a liberal sprinkling of outright BS. It is very confusing to readers to imply that this is the AV Doctor or that he is, of all bizarre things, the past Doctor in NOTVALID: Exile. Simply because this Doctor is modelled on Nick Briggs, and those other characters are played by Briggs, does not mean that this is the same character. Thus, I'm dumping the old contents of the BTS here.

Audio Visuals
This incarnation of the Doctor, played by Nicholas Briggs, first appeared in The Time Ravagers, the second of the AudioVisuals series of fan audio plays. The opening of the story portrayed the previous AudioVisuals version of the Doctor regenerating into him.

During the course of the AudioVisuals story Planet of Lies, the Daleks destroyed Gallifrey. When this version of the Doctor met the Seventh Doctor, he obliquely hinted at this.

In illustrations of this Doctor, this Doctor's physical appearance is modelled on that of Briggs himself. His costume was initially designed by Paul Lunn to resemble "a guy returning from an all-night party in the 1920s." 

Other appearances
Gary Russell, the writer of the Doctor Who Magazine comics story Party Animals, had previously worked with Nicholas Briggs on the Audio Visuals series and had his Doctor appear in the story.

Though not explicitly identified as the same version of the Doctor, Nicholas Briggs also played the Doctor in a flashback sequence in Exile as the current Doctor's past incarnation.

Briggs' Doctor also had a cameo in The Dalek Masterplan, a stage play adaptation of The Daleks' Master Plan, which starred Nick Scovell as an original incarnation of the Doctor and Briggs as the voice of the Daleks. The play concluded with the use of the Time Destructor, which forced the Doctor's regeneration into a new incarnation played by Briggs.

A false incarnation of the Doctor - actually Shayde in disguise - which appeared in COMIC: The Final Chapter and COMIC: Wormwood was modelled upon this Doctor.

Bits and pieces of all this is true and/or useable by us under our policies. But certainly the whole of this shouldn't go back in the article. 23:24: Thu 10 May 2012