Talk:Jenny Flint/Archive 1

Eleventh Doctor Companion?
What's the TARDIS Wiki's criteria on companion status? I know that among Whovians, what counts as a "companion" differs widely from person to person and site to site. Some, for example, accept Astrid Peth and Grace Holloway as companions because they served the role and were in the opening credits in Voyage of the Damned and the TV movie, but others don't count them because they never got a ride on (or even stepped foot on) the TARDIS onscreen. In this case, Jenny has been involved with one onscreen adventure (her first meeting with The Doctor) and flown on the TARDIS as of A Good Man Goes to War and she's also been in contact with him on several occasions as of The Great Detective (although the latest contacts haven't resulted in adventures as Eleven claims to be "retired"). So, would TARDIS Wiki consider her a companion of the Eleventh Doctor based on what she's already appeared in? Or does she have to appear in another full episode before she'll be considered a companion? 71.80.219.129talk to me 01:59, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, A) Grace did all of those things. B) I have seen many things argued as companions in the past, from Jackie Tyler to H.G. Wells, but I have never seen someone suggest something so outrageous. No, Flint and Vastra are not companions. And Strax is definitely not. They're friends of the Doctor, not companions. Just because they know hum does not make them companions. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 15:47, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm looking for Wiki's official policy on companion definitions, not your personal definition. 134.197.0.21talk to me 01:04, November 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree with OttselSpy25. Just because someone hangs out with the Doctor or helps him, does not make them a companion. Shambala108 ☎  16:01, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * We don't have one. We debate over each one seperatley and then decided based off of that. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:22, November 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * This page (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Eleventh_Doctor_companions) lists the people marked as companions of the Eleventh Doctor. It includes Craig Owens, who has been in two televised adventures, but has never ridden on the TARDIS nor had his name in the opening credits. It includes John Riddell and Nefertiti, based on their off-screen adventure(s) with The Doctor and their single on-screen adventure and TARDIS rides in Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. It includes Vincent van Gogh, based off his one televised adventure and last minute TARDIS sneak peek of the future that Eleven opted to give him. It even includes Sarah Jane Smith and Jo Grant, due to Eleven’s guest appearance in the SJA spinoff. Finally, Dorium Maldovar and Madame Vastra are listed based on their A Good Man Goes to War appearances, Dorium’s The Wedding of River Song trip as a head in a box, and Vastra’s off-screen adventure(s) with Eleven. Jenny has been in just as many or more televised appearances with the Eleventh Doctors as others already listed as his companions. She also traveled in the TARDIS from Victorian London to Demon’s Run in AGMGTW. So I don’t see why she shouldn’t qualify as an Eleventh Doctor companion, but characters with just as many or fewer (like Vincent van Gogh) adventures with Eleven do. 75.141.226.87talk to me 00:12, December 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just as a point of order, Craig Owens is explicitly referred to as a companion on screen, which somewhat stacks the deck in his case. 70.72.211.35talk to me 06:03, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Really? I'm not disagreeing, but I honestly don't recall this. Was it in The Lodger or Closing Time? Or is it in one of the Confidential episodes? 75.141.226.87talk to me 06:38, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * It was in Closing Time. Remember, she says that "companion" sounds too old fashioned? Something along the lines of: "Partner? Sounds cool. Is that better than companion?" "Companion? No, no, that's way too old fashioned."

Because she just isn't. She wasn't a close friend of the Doctors. She wasn't a constant traveller. She wasn't really a main charactor for her first episode. She was just there. She was, at most, Vastra's companion. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 00:22, December 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * She doesn't have to be a close friend to have companion status (Ten barely knew Astrid). Nor does she have to be a constant traveller, otherwise Vincent and Dorium wouldn't be listed. Moreover, Adam Mitchell has companion status for only two televised appearances and Nine didn't even want to take him, he was, as you would say, "Rose's companion." 75.141.226.87talk to me 00:32, December 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, look. I'll lay this out for you. Some people are companions. Some people are not. The line is vauge andmhard to define. But Jenny Flint, unarguably, is not a companion. At all. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:37, December 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * If we compare her to the other people that are listed with companion status on this wikia, then yes, she qualifies as a companion. If she doesn't qualify, then they don't either, and they need to be removed from companion categories. It's as simple as that. 75.141.226.87talk to me 01:42, December 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think you understand. It is not as easy as that. The definition of "companion" is rigid and unfair. Some people are companions for the same reason others aren't. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:44, December 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's either loosely applied or it's not. Clearly, a mod or admin needs to have the final word here, because she's just as much a companion as Adam Mitchell, Vincent van Gogh, Madame Vastra, and Dorium Maldovar. 75.141.226.87talk to me 01:51, December 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, reading this particular discussion, personal individual opinion (statements like "Because she just isn't" is utterly meaningless. I agree with 75 that the judgement call has to be made by authority, not by us. Personally, I tend to go with what the BBC says, and last I looked, for example, Adam was considered a companion. Criteria such as "must have travelled in the TARDIS" cannot be included because if that's the case then Liz Shaw must be disqualified and no one wants to do that. (And if you want to be that technical, than Vastra and Jenny and Strax and Dorium are all companions because they rode in the TARDIS in AGMGTW (and Vastra got another ride in Snowmen), whereas Clara actually isn't a companion yet because she hasn't had the chance yet). What this wiki - and in fact fandom in tot - needs to do is follow the lead of when they disqualified Pluto as a planet and gave it a special designation all its own - there needs to be a "pseudo-companion" or "close associate" category created for characters like the Brigadier, Sara Kingdom, Jackie Tyler, as Vastra, Jenny and Strax. 70.72.211.35talk to me 06:03, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I wasn't saying that a TARDIS ride automatically constitutes companion status, but that within the fandom, it seems to be one of the points people often use to support the idea. Then there are people like Grace Holloway, Atrid Peth, Christina de Souza, and Clara Oswald who have acted in companionate status (including having their names in the opening credits) but have never ridden even stepped inside the TARDIS. I've seen their companion status contested for that reason (even though I disagree with that argument personally). And then there are characters like River Song and Craig Owens who have also acted in companion status on more than one occasion, River has been in the TARDIS multiple times (but Craig has never seen it), but Alex and James have never had their names in the opening credits. This wiki still has Vasta listed as a companion of Eleven and I still think if she's got the status, then Jenny should as well. I do like your idea of a psuedo companion or close associate idea though. 75.141.226.87talk to me 06:36, January 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, of all the people you just listed, only Adam Mitchell is actually a companion. The rest I will remove myself. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 02:02, December 29, 2012 (UTC)

Reverted Edits
Revanvolatrelundar, why is any edit I make to this page reverted? I don't mean to be a moan, but every time I try to add some extra information (that it is possible that Jenny is Vastra's maid, due to her attire when we first meet her, and that Jenny comforted Amy after she had lost Melody) it is reverted. Please let me know if you could why it has been reverted, so I can adjust the information accordingly. Thanks, 82.42.249.145 15:48, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Your edit, if its the one I'm thinking of, had speculation in it. This is why it was reverted. --Revan\Talk 15:59, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Ah, OK, thanks. I'll fix that and resubmit the edit. Thanks! 82.42.249.145 20:29, June 6, 2011 (UTC)

Sexual Orientation
For the past week, an anonymous user has been removing the thing saying "or at least bisexual" from the personality page. I think we should leave this there as it is a possibility. Opinions? Cult Of Skaro ☎  13:40, December 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think we should leave it up as a possibility. We don't know for sure how her sexuality is defined, or how she defines her sexuality; we only know that she's intimate with Vastra, which may be a unique situation. TARDIStraveler ☎  14:28, December 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * We should NOT leave it up if it's only a possibility because we don't allow speculation on the in-universe pages. If it happens in-story, we can always add it later, but until it does, it should be removed. Shambala108 ☎  14:41, December 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * It should not be on there.
 * As Shambala108 has said, no speculation. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:46, December 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * On the other hand, we don't specifically know she's lesbian either... Cult Of Skaro ☎  14:49, December 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * Neither should be there. It's enough to say she's been romantic with Vastra. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:51, December 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * That seems like a good solution. I'll change it. Cult Of Skaro ☎  14:52, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

Source for first meeting
I assume the bit about the Tongs comes from the e-book. As I don't read e-books I can't check myself, but if this is the case, the story source should be cited. 70.72.211.35talk to me 05:56, January 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * It doesn't come from the e-book (I added Devil in the Smoke), but it apparently does come from the 2012 Brilliant Book. I haven't read that myself, so I can't say for certain, but the information is listed under the BB listing on Vastra's page, but not Jenny's. 75.141.226.87talk to me 06:46, January 3, 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't it not be funny if she is the Doctors daughter? Same name :s