User talk:Najawin

Saying hi
Hey, I saw Scrooge merged City (The Aztecs) into Tenochtitlan and it made me think of you. I hope your absence is due to good things only! – n8 (☎) 20:12, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Welcome back! How we have missed you! The forums aren't back yet, but that's only because I've been stalling everyone: I wanted to make sure you didn't miss too much… I'll give them the go-ahead now! (I wish!) Very sorry to hear that the circumstances keeping you away have been less than happy, but I'm glad you're still around and hope we can catch up soon. :) – n8 (☎) 02:43, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Welcome back!
Very glad to have you back, friend(?)! And sorry to hear things have been rough. No, still no Forums just yet (though wheels are in motion), but still some good work done. You were missed, though! Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 00:39, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
 * More FP Wikification never goes amiss! And yours was a very high standard of it. Though if other projects catch your eye, that's quite alright too. Regarding Golden Age, no, I feel no sense of property over the page, and have been feeling quite bad that I fell off Wikification as I finished my reading, leaving it with that poor little stump of a summary. I'd be very happy (though again, no obligation) if you decided to finish it. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 12:22, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Re: SMW
Hi, I'd completely forgotten about my SMW guide and I'm glad you've found it useful. I should really get round to finishing it at some point. You can set hidden SMW "tags" using the #set parser function. For your example, you would place the following on Cobweb and Ivory (short story): Ideally, this would be wrapped in a template like or  but it certainly doesn't have to be.

By Eragon, are you referring to the fantasy book series with a film and video game adaptions? If so, I love that series but I can't think where the Doctor Who references would be. With Transformers, I actually can't believe that it was missed out of the diagram on my user page. That's a big omission. Bongo50  ☎  11:22, 30 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Wow! I read Eragon before I got into Doctor Who and haven't yet got round to rereading it (it's on my pile of books to read/reread, though) so this is awesome to find out about. I am aware of Cultural references to the Doctor Who universe but I've never really read through it. Bongo50   ☎  19:21, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Re: Capaldi interview
Ahh, bugger, thanks for letting me know. I've archived the relevant bits at User:NateBumber/Capaldi interview. – n8 (☎) 13:04, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * "On mobile", "without Ctrl+F", "for a limited period of time" is exactly the kind of not we use case we should have in mind. You shouldn't need Ctrl+F or a lot of time to find the most important details about a topic: as an example, last night I wanted a quick refresher on Stanley Kubrick, and by skimming the first few paragraphs of on my phone, it was trivially easy to find his death date and most notable works within seconds. In contrast, right now you can't even answer the question (for instance) "what episode did the Twelfth Doctor regenerate in?" without scrolling 2/3rds of the way down Twelfth Doctor. The way we prioritize information on pages is broken – but it is fixable. Currently I suspect subpages will be a part of the answer. – n8 (☎) 14:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Re: actor and crew preload
Hi, I'm not SOTO, but I'm pretty certain that the edit to the preload was made erroneously so I have recerted it. Bongo50  ☎  12:07, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Sandbox edits
Hello! Saw your last few edits to The Sandbox. On two of the later points I think your worries may be misplaced. With regards to Adventures in Lockdown — its status as a charity work of sorts is known, but then, so are all the Comic Relief specials and more. There is vast precedent for BBC Who works to be covered even if they were part of charity events, and I think the book's position is secure, though in point of fact its existence could be used as a precedent in a thread wanting to revisit the coverage of e.g. charity stories with a licensed Iris.

And as to Time (mythology) — covering the different depictions of Time on one page is part of a wider effort to keep DWU depictions of mythological beings in one place. I think it's clear that a single Zeus that acknowledges different accounts of his true nature/origins, in a The Doctor's species spirit, is much more useful than the undisciplined labyrinth of separate pages for "Zeus as a deity worshipped by historical characters", "Zeus in Deadly Reunion" and "Zeus in The Life Bringer! that we had to deal with before, you know? Covering Time on a single page is the logical extension of that; and it's all the more justified, even from a watsonian point of view, with the allegorical entities depicted — among others — as Menti Celesti, since Platt himself suggested that the core conceptual entities could have many different incarnations each, not just the ones seen in the VNAs. (Also, T:SPOIL prevents, but I have knowledge of certain upcoming releases with an incidence on the specific Time case, that would tip the scales yet further towards keeping them all on one page.) Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 15:54, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be a gadfly again, but Tardis:Valid sources already enshrines "multiple-choice" series where an in-universe timey-wimey gimmick means all the paths are true as valid, giving Flip-Flop as an example! (EDIT: Oh, I see you already mentioned as much on the story talk page. Mh. The "you" is a fair cop, but see my reply there.) Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 18:06, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Russell Mcgee
I've protected the page for now to only allow autoconfirmed users, which hopefully means new named users can't edit it (at least that's what it used to mean). Keep me posted if you see something else that I miss. Thanks Shambala108 ☎  18:19, 12 September 2022 (UTC)


 * I feel like this is getting over my head and maybe another admin who is more current on these things could help, but you are not being a creep. We have a strict rule, that is based on the definition of FANDOM (made by and for fans), and it's important to keep any self-promotion off the wiki for that reason and also just for fairness. So keep up the good work. Shambala108 ☎  17:16, 13 September 2022 (UTC)


 * I would suggest User:Scrooge MacDuck or User:OncomingStorm12th. They both seem up on latest release info, validity, authors, what-have-you. Shambala108 ☎  19:41, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Erasing Sherlock
No, unfortunately I do not have a physical copy. As a result it's really never been clear to me what exactly the differences are between the digital and physical versions, or even how many physical or digital versions exist. Sheesh. Maybe I'll poke around and see if I can get some more clarity on this point if nothing else. – n8 (☎) 00:39, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I wasn't familiar, no, but these rock! Can already tell I'll be going deep down this rabbithole… Thank you! – n8 (☎) 01:59, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, Blood Ties: Inside the Grandfather's House (short story) is still a redlink, but it's probably the clearest explanation we have. Archive link – n8 (☎) 21:18, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

RE: Thomas Milligan
Yeah, it could be a localisation issue. I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that the episode had little bits and pieces cut off in some versions in America (and maybe other places too). LauraBatham ☎  08:36, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Re: SMW User Rights
Hi. Yeah, I know about these user groups. Currently, they don't really restrict what I can so with SMW. There's a few things that I would need them for, but I currently haven't had to do those things yet. I actually have loose plans to apply for admin and probably also these rights once forums are back and I've been able to propose and hopefully implement some of my technical projects (mostly my citations template), but that'll probably be a while. Bongo50  ☎  11:45, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Concerns with self promotion
Hey, sorry that I'm only getting back to you now, but the middle of the week is usually a bit busier for me. Now, I've taken some time looking at this and my personal thoughts on the matter are: I also don't think it's the greatest precedent that people so closely related to the matter of an article to be the one to write it, but it's technically allowed.

That said, and with your concerns of plagiarism in mind, I'll leave a message on Solt's asking her that, in the future, if she wishes to make and edit to someone's page, that it be original text rather than adapting a pre-existing biography. OncomingStorm12th ☎  19:23, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Blood Ties
Hi, sorry for the delay in my response! The FP website was updated 5 times, which is reflected by the "First Edition" – "Fifth Edition" text on the main page. The same page gives a date for each update, which was very helpful (for us) of them to do; these dates are listed on The Spiral Politic Database, which iirc appeared in the second edition. With the exception of A Tour of the Capital, everything in the Spiral Politic Database was written by Lawrence Miles. This is confirmed in a few different places. I have no opinion as to whether or not Blood Ties specifically is narrative, but it was reprinted in full in The Book of the War – "All the material in this book is the copyright of its original authors (2002), except for The Faction Paradox Family, © Lawrence Miles 2001."

– so there'd be little point in it being invalid! – n8 (☎) 13:25, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I see Nate has already obviated the problem! But yes, in terms of policy, if we lacked a release date and/or author for a story, those fields should be left blank in the infobox. (If we know something like "there's hard evidence it was somewhere between 1964 and 1967", that can then be discussed in BTS.) Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 18:29, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

The Off-Cuts and Afterthoughts all came from the scripts for The Eleven Day Empire and The Shadow Play, which were also posted on the website and archived, so you could probably reconstruct them from there! – n8 (☎) 17:47, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Re: BBV scripts
In the abstract I'd be happy to send ye forth the script to Sabbath and the King, or indeed the recording; but obviously such a thing cannot be done, or linked, on the Wiki. We come once again to the matter of how you may be contacted other than the Wiki… I suppose at a push I may send you a message on your Community Central message wall?… Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 22:22, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Subpages
Oh no, I've just noticed your comment on my sandbox. I really didn't mean any offense! That comment was intended completely lovingly; you know what a fan I am of your plot descriptions – I was just taking the opportunity to highlight one of your best and most thorough. Sincerely hoping I'm missing a joke, I'd really hate if it came off as an attack. Just in case, I've swapped the link out with a different example of the same effect. – n8 (☎) 17:30, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank god, lol. It's a good riff, I just fell for it a little too hard 😅 Well, your summary makes sense to me, for whatever little that's worth! In your absence I tried to think of a way to rearrange it so there's a single section for the North storyline, South, etc, but there's just no use. It's that kind of story! – n8 (☎) 17:41, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Re:Personal information
Jesus, thank you for alerting me! Left the page open for edits of autoconfirmed users, as there's potential useful edits to be done in the future, and users with accounts are "easier" to mediate, so to speak. If needs must (and I hope it doesn't get to that) I can further protect it so that only admins can edit it. OncomingStorm12th ☎  17:25, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hm, I don't think I can, but I'll leave a message on Czech's talk page. Thanks again. :) OncomingStorm12th ☎  18:38, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Re: Crikeytown
I would, yes! It's clearly part of the story. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 07:24, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Regarding this edit, this seems wholly within the parameters of the "mention of a Cyberman in An Ordinary Man" thing/Talk:Legacies (short story); those elements don't actually appear, there's just a brief mention of some characters having dressed up as them. That doesn't require licensing. Indeed, there is another layer here, which is that it's all being referenced as a work of fiction (and not with any overt meta shenanigans), which also doesn't generally legally require licensing, except for specific things like song lyrics. I really don't think the story is at any risk of being deemed a Rule 2-breaker under current precedent. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 07:12, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Neither option is acceptable, I'm afraid. We can't miscategorise them as Crikeytown residents because "close enough", but the Rule of Three is absolute and brooks no exceptions. My unconventional suggestion would be a merged Category:Crikeytown or Dunfunnin individuals, in the same spirit as Category:Silurians and Sea Devils and other such occasions where we cut (or rather merged) a categorisation Gordian knot regarding two closely-related categories. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 14:20, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Please forgive me
Won't redo that. How though?

Reply re forums
Hey there! Just replying here in response to the Discussions thread. That is a public discussion you linked re temporary forums, is that something you want Czech's involvement in? Have you tried asking for his input? I also see Bongo gave an option for DPL forums minus the archive which Czech may be open to. --Spongebob456 talk 21:13, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Might be a good move where all of us can get involved perhaps and have a conversation. I know you're keen to work with Czech on it. Did you want to message Czech with a link to the thread perhaps and see what he says? I'm happy to pass on of course, but might be worth that approach of going direct. I'm here to help though, want to emphasise that, and my talk page/Discord always open! --Spongebob456 talk 19:54, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Re: Community consensus
Ahh, interesting reply from Spongebob456 above, I'd missed that. Seems like CzechOut is the person to go through, then, although Spongebob456 should certainly be kept in the loop whenever the admins decide to make their move.

I hear what you're saying. "Our chances are better the more people we have." I guess my question is, "Our chances … of what?" I'm optimistic that it's still simply a matter of asking. We just need an admin to tell CzechOut to reenable DPL forums, and then stand firm / push back if he tries insisting on restoring the archives first or promising a new deadline. The current silence is simply because our admins are (a) dragging their feet in terror of the big bad bureaucrat, or hopefully (b) taking the time to carefully draft their message. In my view, taking the time to run a poll would just give them a further reason to delay, which is the opposite of what we need.
 * Getting admin support? We already have it. There's admin consensus on this issue.
 * Getting an admin to request it of CzechOut? That should be a matter of time.
 * Getting CzechOut to approve the request? He seemed reasonably apologetic in his latest comments on this topic: they were phrased as "please wait a couple weeks" rather than "you cannot do this until I complete the archives". Based on what he wrote there, there's actually nothing stopping us from enacting SOTO's original temporary forums proposal; the current hold-up is because we want to do it right, and that will require FANDOM's help on the DPL side of things.

But given how long we've already been waiting, odds are that they won't act during the time period in question, anyway; so if you're going to go ahead with a census, might I make a suggestion? Tardis talk:Temporary forums is bogged down with loads of history and conversation from months ago, and it also seems from Spongebob's response above that the URL might cause some confusion – what we're proposing is anything but temporary. So I've just ported a bunch of conversation over to Forum talk:Index. (While the  namespace is closed,   is still open.) That will be a better home for "showing CzechOut" purposes, and it will provide more room to conduct a census.

My other suggestion is that you use the traditional Wikipedia-style proposal voting format, as currently only used on Tardis:User rights nominations/Archive. Let's make it an example of what a forum thread would look like, and demonstrate why the DPL forum format is better than using discussions! In practice this would just mean creating a structured section for people to vote "For" or "Against" on the specific DPL reactivation proposal. This would make things more organized and provide a very clear way to watch the number of users commenting in support. In fact, maybe I should have preemptively gone ahead and rearranged the comments on the page to use this format. Oh well! – n8 (☎) 15:54, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Re:Welcoming new users
Ugh, that's very much annoying (and surprising that no one's noticed it before. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!). But yeah, this is definitely something that's out of my league. I'll contact Spongebob456 and see if he can help us. OncomingStorm12th ☎  15:45, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks for -ing User:Deriksmith. But for future reference: please don't do it anymore. With the help of Spongebob and Bongo50, I've set up an fix which *should* start welcoming them automatically in the (near)-future (aka, as soon as possible/as soon as codes are reviewed and take place), and it'll be useful to see if/when it starts taking place. But again, thank you for the initiative. OncomingStorm12th ☎  15:30, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no probs. As of the time I wrote you my last message, it was half solved, but now it's fully working! Anyway, t'was good that you did a few extra welcomes (though I suspect the .js solution would've caught up with them eventually). Anyway, let's get onto some editing for the new content. OncomingStorm12th ☎  20:19, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Re: sandboxes
I think you'd be pretty safe, yes. There is broad precedent for sandboxes of pages which current coverage policies forbid, but which people have in good faith argued ought to be on the Wiki at some point. I'm not quite sure where we would stand on creating user pages documenting random ao3 fanfics with no particular claim to notability, but charity anthologies and the like — sure. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 07:15, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, both of those seem entirely A-OK for sandbox coverage. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 13:12, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Re: Twitter
Yes, for some reason I run the (unofficial) Twitter account. Do you mean the recent news about where Doctor Who will be streamed in future or is there something else that I've missed? Bongo50  ☎  22:09, 25 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Ok. It's 11:30pm in the UK right now so I can't Tweet anything today but this seems like a great idea for tomorrow. Thanks! Bongo50   ☎  22:31, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Forums
Hi Najawin! I got your message on my talk page. Sure thing, I'm happy to contribute to the discussion and express my support for the change - the wiki is in desperate need of a proper forums discussion area again. However, I noticed - per the link you sent - that no discussion has occurred there since October 20th. Is that the correct page for me to voice my contribution? Hope all is well! Snivy   ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦   14:47, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi! Happy New Year! Thanks for letting me know. I appreciate it. Snivy   ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦   18:34, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Unregistered contributor(s) and BBC America
Sorry for the delayed reply, middle-of-the-weeks have become a busier time for me. Regarding the former: gaaaaaaaah, I don't think there's anything *effective* we can do about it. It's rather unfortunate, because they're *almost* useful edits, but the amount they happen makes it so that there's so much cleanup to do.

Now regarding the latter: I honestly have no idea. I don't know the specifics of the deal Czech made with BBCA, so you'd need to check with him, really. In any case, the news seems like the perfect opportunity to revamp our theme(s), which I find extremely good news! OncomingStorm12th ☎  17:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, I don't think you're insane at all! I remember something about a deal with BBCA, and that we couldn't just change the current theme to, say, our old blue/white one because of it. OncomingStorm12th ☎  20:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no current agreement with BBCA, as they are the outgoing distributor in the US. As it will be about a year before the next episode, there is not currently an incoming deal either.  However, there could well be some activity in the second half of next year, as obviously Disney+ will want to make some noise about their aquisition, as their streaming deal comes closer to fruition.  23:42: Wed 16 Nov 2022

Re: Vandals
Done. Thank you for suggesting it! Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 20:21, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Re: Weird wiki list comprehension thing
Hi. Generally, this sort of thing is a job for DPL which is designed for generating lists of pages. Certainly, the uses and notuses parameters could be used to get a list of all pages using that don't use. The problem is that DPL is slow and inefficient and generating a list this big (more than 8,000 pages use !) would probably slow down the entire wiki momentarily.

This then brings us to SMW. SMW also isn't particularly fast from a performance perspective. I feel like it would be faster than DPL but I've never tested it. SMW works off of properties so, in this case, we'd need to create Property:Valid with the Boolean datatype. We could then query all pages for which this property is true. Assignment of this property could be automated by having it done in based on whether or not it detects that  is on the page (as  is placed above, this is trivial).

While DPL is designed to do stuff like this, I'd lean towards using SMW as having a valid property would just be helpful for queries in general. Moreover, it would allow for more power in our queries and results format than DPL can offer. So yes, this is definitely feasible. Bongo50  ☎  10:44, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Re:Tarpok
Thanks for bringing that up! I've (partially) protected these pages for autoconfirmed users only, so hopefully that'll solve our problems. OncomingStorm12th ☎  22:50, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Re: Hellscape 5 and 6
I haven't listened to them myself, in part due to their reputation of being truly awful as well as being produced by post-controversy BBV, however I do know from personal interaction that @NateBumber has listened to them, so he'd be able to help you. (Though I'd recommend talking about them on the FP Wiki IMO.) 12:36, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Seventh Doctor Timeline
If you go to the talk page archives most of the issue was resolved. The only things that were left unresolved was the placement of the short trips and if in general misc short stories should be placed before or after the PDAs, But a lot of the placement issues in that conversation were definetely resolved. https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Theory_talk:Timeline_-_Seventh_Doctor/Archive_1 Tellymustard ☎  00:55, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Oh, ok. that makes sense.

Re: For(u)m Letter
Thanks for inviting me to the discussion regarding the forums. I'm sorry for not replying sooner, I've been less active on the wiki for the last few months due to work and contemplating how to resolve the discussion on the Doctor of War audios, but I'll try and take a look through the forum discussion and see what's been said already, and throw in my thoughts as well. Hope you have a good Christmas and new year!Thalek Prime Overseer ☎  23:53, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Digital availability
Do we have this conversation archived anywhere? because I am curious about this. Tellymustard ☎  19:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Oh, ok. I understand that entirely. Thank you for taking the time to reply to this. Tellymustard ☎  19:36, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Re: This Town Cover
Fair enough, although the deletion reason being the file name made me assume that was the only reason - I'll try to read edit summaries in future (although, really, it should've been tagged as a duplicate imo). Cookieboy 2005 ☎  22:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Do you have a link to the pre-existing image, for reference? Cookieboy 2005 ☎  22:54, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Death Comes To Time
Ah, probably just a misread on my part of something that I thought would support the case, sorry about that. I'll go over the talk page soon Editoronthewiki ☎  04:42, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Response to your welcome
Hello, Najawin! Thank you for your kind word, greatly!! <3

I have read through a lot of the Tardis:Help page and other related things you sent me before I began editing, but thank you anyway! And thank you a lot for telling me not to copy-paste information, as i could have ended up doing that more by accident if you hadn't. (I seem to recall seeing small noun pages which had almost copy-pasted info, but now I look back on it, i dont think it was exactly copy-pasted. So again, thank you)

Also, im glad you appreciate the fact im an FP fan! Personally, i have read The Book of the War, Alien Bodies, Interference, and both audio series (and im getting TToP5+This Town+Shadows of Avalon in the post soon), so I do have some narrativr knowledge, but a lot of my knowledge is from this wiki itself. In fact, reading this wiki for hours on end over the COVID-19 Lockdown is what got me interested in FP in the first place! So im ever-grateful for its coverage on this wiki.

I am using the source editor already, as adviced by Bongo50, but thank you.

(Side note, my user page will look prettier when my phone starts working properly)

Good tidings, Etty ☎  15:13, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Etty

planet Djinn page edit
What did you edit it with?

Re: Forums
Yes! We have. But good thought! Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 09:17, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

RE: Temporary Forums
Hi. I thought I'd better reply here as it's a different topic than the discussion thread we were on. I've had a look at the temporary forums, but so far I have nothing new to add. I'm gonna keep an eye out though, so I may end up contributing. It's good to have them anyhow :) LauraBatham ☎  00:56, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Re: Vandalism + Lock page
Thanks. The anon has been blocked and the page protected. Bongo50  ☎  11:37, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * This prefix actually seems to be a bit of an edge case, left over from the old series prefixes and now only used to prefix links to annuals in places such as DWM 389 and 2012 (releases) which is different to the usage outlined on its page. Therefore, I'm just going to turn the page into a redirect to Doctor Who annual. Bongo50   ☎  13:14, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Temporary forums, Curse, validity
I have put forward a proposed update to T:VS at Tardis:Temporary forums which I believe would, if successful, obviate the need for specific debates on Death Comes to Time and The Curse of Fatal Death. As you supported the proposal for a new inclusion debate for the former, and are the standard-bearer for reexamining the current standing of the latter, I thought you may want to give that proposal a read. If you agree with the proposal, I trust you'll agree that we had best see if it passes before we start either of those two debates, so, unorthodox as it may be, may I prevail upon you to (temporarily, if need be) remove your support from the DCtT thread and put Curse on hold, to ensure that the wider proposal reaches the top of the list first? Entirely up to you, this is obviously a request as a fellow editor and Forum-goer, not a demand from an admin. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 19:06, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. (It climbed faster than I feared it might.) Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 22:58, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Citations etc.
I've been using "et al." fairly universally to refer to sources, frankly because I think it's prettier; but upon Googling earlier today, I was rather embarrassed to find that the use of "et al." in academic citations is usually reserved for people, whereas "etc." is used when a list is of objects. Wondering what your response to that definition would be? – n8 (☎) 23:27, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Not as doomed as all that, I'd say, myself! Should we decide to — say — replace "etc." with "et al." across the board, we could plausibly enforce that across the Wiki with a bot run. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 00:07, 12 January 2023 (UTC)