User talk:CzechOut

May wordmark cont.
Continued over from archive.
 * Sorry it took this long. Haven't been around my computer. I am really happy that we have Five over with! That one was a toughie...
 * Anyway, I noticed that you already replaced it. Now the wordmark at the top is kinda blurry.
 * How about, for the wordmark on top:
 * [[File:TardisDataCoreFive19.png]]
 * And, for the wordmark on the main page:
 * [[File:TardisDataCoreFive21 big.png]]
 * I think that looks much cleaner. --SOTO ☎ 02:58, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

More vandalism, with apologies
There's been another bout of vandalism over at the Controller (Bad Wolf) page - I seem to have unintentionally involved myself in an editing war there. I know it's the same person because he always puts in the same corrections - changes the name to Fat Controller, changes the word Dalek into Engines or Troublesome Trucks. Usually if I see vandalism I just revert it as a matter of course, but I think I'm going to let the admins deal with it this time - he seems to be a repeat offender, plus he made so many edits I have no idea how to revert it. This time, he also singled me out personally by leaving a message on my talk page, letting me know he had vandalised the page and to "sort it out!"

On that subject, I lost my cool a little bit at that point (even though there's a notification at the top of the page that says, specifically, "KEEP YOUR COOL") and left him a message (on my own talk page, since he was unregistered and has since been banned) letting him know what I think of his expenditure. I've left it up, unedited, and if it's deemed that an admin needs to take action, I'll accept whatever that may be. Worth it. TARDIStraveler ☎  22:21, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Covering eyes
Well because that's the most recognizable-at-first picture of a Weeping Angel you might put the picture simply elsewhere in the page! HiddenVale 22:36, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

see also and other questions
I thought that see also was a good way of letting the reader know that there were other articles on a similar topic that might contain additional information that isn't in the article. A good way to link to things that we might not be able to link to in the text of the article. At the mo' we only have one entry in the cupcake article. It's something that was entirely visual, we don't have the choice of words that who used, because who didn't use words. In the beginning of the episode the Doctor is reminiscing about cakes with edible ball bearings and in the end Rose brings him that. The only text that we have to apply is "cake" and "edible ball bearing". Everything else is visual (well, there are yummy sounds). That's what my reasoning was. I was also taking note from some of the alcohol related pages I'd been recently working on.

So what is the appropriate way to use see also? Is there ever a reason to use it for in-universe articles or should those lists be stripped from the other pages?

The capitalisation and category--I wasn't confused, just moving super fast. Too fast apparently. I try to watch for that, but it sometimes happens.

Also, what's the precise difference between and ? Is demonym new? Do we have other versions of this for other article types? For something like Tiaanamat?

Also, I was thinking about doing some work on real-world animals? Can I create a real-world animal category as long as I don't take animals from mammals per GOR? Thanks. Anoted ☎  02:53, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that clarification, it was very helpful. The reason I copy-paste to my talk page is because I like to be able to look back at old conversations. That's really hard when they span multiple places. The problem isn't so much during a conversation--I can have two talk pages open at once and generally do. But if a conversation goes on for a while, or if I'm looking back at an old conversation, then it's just sooo easy to get lost. Would it help if I only copy my half after you've posted? Thread my comments inbetween yours? Because I don't want to compromise the ability of others to use my talk page.
 * What I was trying to ask about animals was about the exact way that game of rassilon categories works. All years are in the top cat years for GOR even though they wouldn't normally be, right? So if a category for real world mammals was added (a subcat of earth mammals) then Guinea pig would be in both Category:Real world mammals and Category:Earth mammals for the duration of Earth mammals involvement in GOR. The same way that bear is in Category:Bears and Category:Earth mammals, right? Bear is only in the earth mammal category because of GOR, right?
 * And yeah, I'm planning on maintaining my focus on foods, but I like being able to do grunt work that can't be assigned to a bot when my brain needs a break. Un-orphaning pages, copy-editing, wikilinking, putting things in categories all take varying amounts of brain power and it's nice to be able to switch things around and do other types of editing. I made some edits in the past week that I had to undo to maintain the GOR and I just wanted to be super clear about how GOR worked. If there's still something I don't understand about it I'd like to know now, not after an edit of mine screws things up. I like to think that I pick up pretty quickly on most guidelines and rules simply from watching my edits and reading edit summaries when they are reverted but not everything is obvious and things that I thought were obvious sometimes end up being a little more complicated. So I figured that it didn't hurt to touch base. Anoted ☎  04:50, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Not being a fan of biography sections?
It seems off-topic to press on the point in a topic specifically about the special case of the TARDIS, so I'll ask here: in Thread:129452, you mention not being a fan of history and biography sections on in-universe pages. Could you elaborate on what you mean by that and how they can end up messy and sloppily written? -- Tybort (talk page) 09:53, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that's an interesting point. I simply add "biography" by default if the page is more than a couple of paragraphs, and the character is substantially more than "guard reacting to event". When I personally make pages like that, I think that was from following what was said on Tardis:Guide to writing Individuals articles. -- Tybort (talk page) 14:13, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

species v. creatures v. animals
Category:Species, per our current definition is supposed to be used for intelligent lifeforms.

Category:Creatures, per our current definition is supposed to be used for non-intelligent lifeforms--animals that do not exist in the real world (RW).

But that's not how things are working right now. While most of the articles under Category:Creatures are not intelligent, they are also often categorised as species. And there are lots of non-intelligent lifeforms currently only categorised as species.

I'm guessing that a large part of this is because Category:Creatures has no subcategories. So if you want to categorise something as a mutant, or silicon-based, you put them in the species category tree.

This is also highly complicated by the way we treat the animal categories, primarily Category:Animals by zoologic class. The animal categories seem to be set up with the intention of handling only real world, non-intelligent lifeforms. But we have intelligent lifeforms being categorised as both species and animal (see Cei) and unintelligent lifeforms being categorised as creature and animal (see Stingray). Intelligent or not, none of these are real world lifeforms, so I'm not sure why they are considered animals. But this is a widespread practice, and leads to articles like Giant Clam being categorised as creature (Category:Skaro creatures), animal (Category:Molluscs) and species (Category:Mutants), which is confusing as hell and makes zero sense.

It seems like this system was set-up with a couple clear divisions in mind. Intelligent and not intelligent. And then each of those was supposed to be divided into RW and non-RW.

Or is the actual intent of the current system to have a set-up that has intelligent, un-intelligent, RW and non-RW lifeforms all co-existing in same categories? Are we supposed to have category called "aquatic species" where we can find every water based lifeform whether or not they are intelligent and whether or not they really exist?

The way the categories currently function I don't know what the intent is--there's just too much contradiction.

If RW lifeforms are not supposed to overlap with non-RW lifeforms, and intelligent lifeforms are not supposed to overlap with non-intelligent lifeforms, then I think it should be fairly easy to set-up subcategories for Category:Creatures and go through the articles in Category:Species and Category:Creatures and put them in the proper category trees. And then go through the animal categories and strip away the non-RW articles and categories.

If these are supposed to overlap then there's quite a bit more work to be done creating an category system for all lifeforms that includes divisions by real world existence and intelligence, but also includes subcategories for appearance and function that contain all types of lifeforms.

I don't want to touch anything until I know which way these categories are really supposed to work, so I'm coming to you hoping that you can clear this up for me. Anoted ☎  12:05, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand the different between Earth ___ and _____ from the real world, don't worry. And I know that it's "from the real world" and that "real world ____" actually means something here and it's very different, and that's a dangerous place to get informal. I just super hate typing all of those "from the real world"s. So annoying! I wasn't planning on creating a "Mammals from the real world" category--it would have almost 100% overlap with the Earth mammals category so it seems silly. I was just using it as an example per GOR. Creating a "from the real world" category wouldn't screw up GOR as long as I only added pages to it, not moved pages from their current category to a new subcategory. That's all I was trying to clarify.
 * The thing I'm still confused about in terms of the lifeform categories is are they supposed to be divided up be real world/not and intelligent/not or is there supposed to be a tree that encompasses all of those things. Because if it's supposed to encompass everything, that's going to be one hell of tree.
 * In regards to the talk page thing, is your issue with my adding the other half of the conversation in terms of handling ongoing discussions, or...? If I put the other half of the conversations in only right before archiving, would that bother you? If while a conversation was ongoing I put in links to the diffs of what I said, would that be ok? I don't want to negatively affect other people's ability to communicate with me, but being able to easily find other parts of the conversation and archive full conversations is important to me. Also, this is something totally different but are there scripts for auto-archiving? That is archiving things that are x days old? I tried looking, but wasn't sure where to look on wikia and wikipedia takes up the first bajillion google results. Anoted ☎  16:07, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Speedy rename question
Hi! I have a question about procedure for the speedy renames. When do they get changed? Some of them have their links moved, some don't. Only one of them has more than 10 links to move. Do they need to be approved before they can be renamed? Thanks! Shambala108 ☎  15:29, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok, I just wanted to make sure. I'll take a look at the list later today and see what's left to do. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎  15:53, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

czechbot requests
I have a couple requests for czechbot:
 * Move everything from Category:Fruit from the real world to Category:Fruits from the real world (fruit is grammatically wrong)
 * Move Category:Drink stubs to Category:Beverage stubs so it uses the same name as Category:Beverages, and Category:Beverages from the real world. Anoted ☎  16:16, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Malcolm Taylor moves
Thanks. What I did with Mercury (element) (which was just recently called Mercury — some of the links were meant for the planet) was go through the links and switch them all myself. Your suggestion will make my job much easier. I'll let you know when I have all the links completely wrong, so you can run the bot. --SOTO ☎ 18:04, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * All links are now officially wrong. If that's good... Please run the bot — Malcolm Taylor → Malcolm Taylor (actor) + Malcolm Taylor (Planet of the Dead) → Malcolm Taylor. Then I suppose rename the pages. Thanks! --SOTO ☎ 23:24, May 3, 2013 (UTC)

Policy questions
Hey. Two questions here. The first is regarding prequels — how do they fit in to series pages? I've noticed that series 7 has Prequel (The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe), the two Snowmen prequels and The Bells of Saint John: A Prequel. But why not Prequel (Asylum of the Daleks) or The Making of the Gunslinger? Why aren't there any prequels on the series 6 page? Or, for that matter, why aren't there Tardisodes on the series 2 page? Should they all be included, or should we get rid of them all from series pages?

My second question is regarding navigation templates. What is their purpose, and how are they different from simply adding a category? Would, for example, creating for a list of all pubs and bars be justified, even though there's currently a category for that? To take up an example from your discussion above with Anoted, would be justified, or should it just be left to a category:cakes? I noticed that Tangerineduel objected to at its talk page — what's the wiki's stance of this? Or at least yours? --SOTO ☎ 23:01, May 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Czech. That was actually very helpful. I will speak to Mini-mitch about my series question. Anyway, are you saying it would be helpful to have a template? Your rationale for  was that "the categories for hospitals have become so fragmented that there is no longer any one category which encompasses all these hospitals." The same applies to drinking establishments, as they're a category for pubs, then a subcat for terrestrial pubs, then British, then London and Cardiff. (I realise now that I might have to get rid of category:British pubs due to possible future recursion problems... oops.) If I split it up by terrestrial and non-terrestrial, would this be a useful template? I think your split of "specialised" and "non-specialised" for  is very useful, and not something we have in its category. Maybe I'll try to think of a better way to separate pubs — maybe something like pubs visited by the Doctor? I'm still not really sure about the merits of that specific template — if it's divided by terrestrial and non-terrestrial, then it's almost the same as the category tree. I looked through all the pages, and can't think of any other ways of splitting them. So would the template still be useful? I suppose it'd be just as useful of, so I might just create it. --SOTO ☎ 21:20, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's a much better idea. I will actually create that, probably tomorrow. What would the template be called, though? And what would it say at the top? "Food retailers?" --SOTO ☎ 23:13, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I actually (surprisingly) created the template today. Anyway, could you maybe tweak the colors of ? Navigation boxes are currently unreadable on the LOD colour scheme. --SOTO ☎ 01:35, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Game of Rassilon
Hi! I haven't forgotten that you asked if I had any ideas for new badge tracks. After a bit of thinking and searching, I came up with three possibilities. I haven't done anything with images or names for them yet, however.

I was thinking that Category:Bernice Summerfield stories (or one of its subcategories) might be good. It's a huge category that doesn't get worked on much.

For a couple of in-universe categories I was thinking Category:Planets or Category:Species, as many of these seem to be stubs. Shambala108 ☎  05:51, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Title Sort Name Sort
I don't do much editing on name pages so it's not a really big deal. My confusion came from the idea that "The John Smith" would, under title sort be rendered as Smith, John The, and not John Smith, The. Did I misunderstand the original example? Anoted ☎  19:20, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

Classic and Revives Series articles
Hey, Czechout. Ziv (the other admin of the israeli wiki, I believe you're remember) and I recently wrote two new articles in our wiki - one about the classic series, and one about the revived. It kinda bothers us that we have no proper source of information about these two stages of the show, like the rest of the articles we translate. We both have amazing knowledge about these things (I specialize in the classic series, Ziv specializes in the revived one), but yet, we - or, at least, I - always have this feeling that I miss things and details about all sort of knowledge of the series. So, because you, the english wiki, have like twenty times of our editors (we have two, you have... what, like, forty?), we thought it would be great if you could write two article of that sort here, and we will just fill up the missing in our articles.

If necessary, I'm ready to help the writing of these articles. Ziv can't, because he's working on a CON-adding-project and companion-articles-expansion to our wiki. Any who, here's the two articles we wrote - |- the classic series and |- the revived series, both in hebrew, of course. (Also, both of them aren't finished yet. I made a point to finish it until the series finale next week)

Hope you'll listen to my request :) Puchplimmirdeyslithin ☎  14:15, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Wales template
Just to ask - when will the Wales crew template be ready to put on the Series 7B episodes? --TARDIS2468 ☎  23:32, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Spoiler Screen
Hi there,

I am the lead administrator of the Marvel Database, and we'd like to implement your Spoiler Screen on our wiki. I wanted to have your permission before I tried to implement it.

May I have your permission? Of course I would reference back to your original template/implementation so that you receive credit.

Thanks!

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 14:13, May 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * SpoilerAlert is available for use by any wiki at Wikia Developers Wiki.

The Howling
Since The Howling is closed until next week, would it not be prudent also remove the create box from the page?

Please ban
Please ban this editor for multiple violations of T:SPOIL (regarding the finale) both in the template namespace and in their username itself. Thank you. --SOTO ☎ 22:37, May 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, and somehow figure out a way to get rid of what they did at Thread:130435. In fact, I'll leave reverting all their edits to you, since it becomes slightly difficult with the black screen they employed. --SOTO ☎ 22:42, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Nightmare in Silver
Don't know if you're notice, but GNAA took over "Nightmare in Silver" page. You should post a thread and highlight it to the users and editors since it's full with spoilers the the finale. ZivKarni3 ☎  22:57, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Big problem at thread:130435
I was just reading through the latest additions to the threads in the forums here, and I just want to say there is a major problem at "Merging the Cybermen". Namely, it seems the page has been hacked to display all black except for some text at the top which contains spoilers (I read the first line by accident and then asked my friend beside me to read the rest and tell me if it was all spoiler, to which she replied yes). The person username, as it displays in latest thread activity, is also a spoiler. I have screenshots if you want them. It only apears like that in oasis. In mobile it looks normal, although the spoiler is in the last post of the thread there. Imamadmad (Contact me) 23:25, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

page not showing up
Alfie Owens is not displaying in my browser. It was, and then I edited it and it still was fine. I edited it once more, capitalising an "a" that I had previously uncapitalised. Still there. When I went back to the page a couple minutes later it didn't show up. No edits have been made in the meantime. Anoted ☎  23:40, May 12, 2013 (UTC)

Notification
As the food category conversation on my talk page includes multiple editors, I thought it best to reply there and keep the conversation all in one place. Anoted ☎  02:13, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

non-alcoholic beverages
I know that beverage refers to both alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks. That's why alcoholic beverages are a subcat beverages. With the non-alcoholic classification we cannot have all beverages in one category, which I consider a problem. Also, we don't know that all of those beverages are non-alcoholic. We don't have any information about alien beverages other than what we're given. And a lot of those beverages we only have scant information on. We don't know if these beverages are not alcoholic unless we're explicitly told so. Hence the category label beverages. It keeps us from applying a label that we don't know is correct and it's inclusive of all drinks so that we have a category tree that is beverages and just beverages. We can bring back the non-alcoholic categories, but I don't see the point. Especially because I'm not sure what we can put in the non-real world one. Anoted ☎  05:13, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

For example, do we know that Rakeshla is non-alcoholic or is that just an assumption? Anoted ☎  05:16, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

"Badge Weirdness"
Hey CzechOut, I'm just relaying a message that was sent to me earlier, it's more your area of expertise than mine:

"there seems to be a bizarre glitch in your Badges: A Troughton and Pertwee appearing willy-nilly. Also, I noticed a "Days of the Year" Badge on another user, but I did not receive one when I edited. Has it since been removed?

TheDanishWhovian ☎  18:11, May 13, 2013 (UTC)"

Thanks. --Revan\Talk 22:51, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Craig Ferguson video
I don't normally do this, but I must commend you for the video you put on the front page. It's bloody hilarious!

(PS. Didn't you say that you can't play from the page?)

--SOTO ☎ 01:42, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Nothing beats Craig Ferguson (he deserves a page) dancing to to the Doctor Who theme! --SOTO ☎ 01:45, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * :( Oh well. I can still watch it on endless repeat on YouTube itself... --SOTO ☎ 01:50, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, same here. I've probably wasted hours watching it on a loop. I love that bit at the beginning with the... urgh, I can't put it into words! The first bit of dancing — it's just so perfect! I almost hate myself for venturing to the front page on that fateful day. It's incredibly addictive... --SOTO ☎ 04:33, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * That would be awesome. You see those 359 views? I bet you at least 200 of those are from me! ;) --SOTO ☎ 04:54, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Front page error
You linked to the wrong thread - it should be Thread:130517, not Thread:130516.

Badge Oddness
Thank you for your reply. What I mean is that on Revan's page, there's several "Tricky Troughton" and "Priggish Pertwee" Badges. Is that supposed to happen? It looks very strange to me, since I'd imagine a new Badge appearing once the requirements of the old one had been reached.

TheDanishWhovian ☎  13:49, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Abuse filter bug
I logged out and then logged back in, and after that I was able to edit. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎  04:13, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

IP users prevented from editing?
You stated here that editing has been disabled for new users and IP users. But then how did IP users manage to do this edit or this one? I mean, they're both generally good-faith edits (though I'd quibble about inclusion of the second one), but, if it's not working, then other IP users can make bad edits and spoil the finale. So can you please check, and figure out what went wrong? Thank you. --SOTO ☎ 07:16, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Nightmare creation issues
Thanks for the brief. I obviously won't be creating the page for the finale (as I'm sure it's been locked), but if I create any future TV story episodes, I'll made sure to follow that.

I usually don't make the ICC mistake, since I usually remember to get rid of then before I create the page. I was actually trying to figure out why there was a huge space between the templates, so thanks for clearing that up for me. As far as top/bottom of the hour, it's still mighty confusing, but it's starting to sink in. I actually understand it now. That took long enough... --SOTO ☎ 18:07, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

DWBIT cover dates
You may not be the right person to ask, but you seemed to know about DWM cover dates. Does the same apply to DWBIT? I mean, you told me to add one to the previous cover date for DWM, but I'm not sure if it's the same here. At present, the cover dates every issue up to and including DWBIT 43 is listed as the same as the released date of their comics, although that might be a mistake. But it's starting with DWBIT 50 that it gets even more confusing (and even more so at 55). Here's a chart a few example issues:

I have absolutely no idea what to do with this. It seems as though the dates were put in randomly. And the most confusing part is: there cannot possibly be such thing as a "cover date," as there is no date listed on the cover! Do you have any insight into this madness? --SOTO ☎ 20:13, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks! --SOTO ☎ 21:11, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Consider it done. Going through them all now, then I'll add the releases to the day of the year articles. --SOTO ☎ 21:30, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, and then I need to fix the dates on the comic story pages too. This might take a little while... --SOTO ☎ 21:35, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Doctor Who Toybox lists DWBIT 46 and DWBIT 47 as both being released on 12 June. I'll consider that as correct for now, but please tell me if I'm using the wrong information, as it would be really annoying to have to go through half the issues again and fix the dates. --SOTO ☎ 00:57, May 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, research wasn't giving me much... I'll do that. --SOTO ☎ 01:26, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

The Toybox list also switches the releases from a consistent Wednesday in 2006 to a consistent Thursday in 2007. Should I disregard this too? --SOTO ☎ 01:29, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Days of the year
I must admit, I am pleasantly surprised. Two things, though. First: I'd suggest leaving the thread open for a little longer than usual, since new users cannot currently give their inputs. Second: what exactly is this new "transmat" namespace? I'm thoroughly interested. --SOTO ☎ 22:53, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll make sure of it. I noticed you got the bot to do some work so that the pages can be transcluded properly. Just wondering... where exactly are you planning on transcluding the pages? --SOTO ☎ 18:29, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Which are...? --SOTO ☎ 18:46, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Weird category box bug
Hi. Really weird bug that seems to be happening with at least two users. Take a look at these two diffs:,. As evidenced by the automatically generated "adding categories," these edits were simply two users adding categories using the category box. The the weird result was: it broke up every template on the page to wikitext. Long, hard-to-read wikitext which would be incredibly confusing to new users. No new users around at the moment, but I'd like you to look into this whenever you have the time. I'm sure it's happened elsewhere in the wiki; I've only found these two so far. --SOTO ☎ 20:28, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

For later reference after Name airs
You might have already seen this, but Kasterborous posted an interesting article indicating that some fans think the BBC America Blu-ray leak never actually happened. The article (which contains no spoilers) is here. User comments with it appear to confirm the leak did happen (again, no one spoiling) and according to what's there the only thing that has circulated so far is a screen capture of the title screen and images of the Blu-ray box. I pass this along for reference as presumably the article on the episode will include a section on the leak, and this might be an interesting addition to the discussion (the fact some were/are skeptical the leak was genuine). 23skidoo ☎  13:53, May 17, 2013 (UTC)