Talk:The End of Time (TV story)/Archive 2

Moved old talk page
Moved the old talk page which was very long and had quite a number of different headings. New talk page means that all discussion is much easier to locate and add discussion on. Mini-mitch 17:39, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

Reverted edits
I sort of understand some of my reverted drive-by edits on the pages (some of which were inconsequential anyway), but why were my edits here from earlier reverted? 94.8.120.120 18:53, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

Rassilon, wtf?
Where the hell did Rassilon come from anyways? He was pretty damn dead in the old show, his time having been long before the Doctor or the Master even came around. How did he recognize them? And why is he such a douchebag? Certainly it would have made much more sense if they stuck with Omega...


 * Most likely he was revived because the Time Lords were losing the Time War - and would certainly have come across the Doctor there. (Though he implies that the Doctor/Master conflict is significant). Beardouk ☎  06:50, December 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * With that talk about the middle of the Time War, and their resurrection of the Master, I thought they were implying that pretty much anybody they'd deem militaristically relevant was being resurrected. I thought they established him pretty well as a narcissist, at least in these episodes. As such, I'm sure that Rassilon's knowledge that the Doctor broke ranks and sided with the rest of the universe against him, to snatch what he's convinced himself is victory right from under his nose, is enough to explain his attitude. How was he in the prior stories? ComicBookGoddess ☎  05:45, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Companions
I don't feel that Rossiter and Addams did enough to qualify as companions in this episode. HolbenilordTalk₪ 18:25, December 11, 2011 (UTC)

Finding this article
I had a hell of a time finding this article. Type "The End of Time" into the search field and it doesn't take you anywhere, just to a general index of articles with the word "time" in them, and when I tried it "the end of time" lower case I got a message saying there was no such article. I had to go digging to find the title of the previous story and come in from that direction. Has Wikia discontinued the use of redirects? 68.146.80.110 05:14, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

The Master's disappearence
One thing is REALLY annoying me on this wiki regarding The Master's "disapperence" at the end of this episode, is that the pages The Master & The Master (Harold Saxon) both previously listed The Master and being taken back into the time war with Rassilon & The TimeLords. However I have yet to see conclusive production evidence of this fact i.e. Russell or someone stating this is fact (and as you can never really kill off the classic villian's like The Master/Davros etc) surely it makes me sense to assume The Master "died" burning up his own life-force as the Tenth Doctor states he is doing earlier on in the episode. Who agrees?? 0TheTenthDoctor0 17:00, May 17, 2012 (UTC)

References > Individuals > Jimbo; question
References > Individuals > Jimbo: Under Individuals, Jimbo is indicating that it was set up as a link with no page. Do we really want a page for this? I understand wanting a link to more info, but would something off-site be the best choice? M. Gail P. 08:12, February 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's showing as a redlink.
 * It's not linking off site. The redlink indicates a page has not been created. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:12, February 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry I was not clear. I know red means there is no link. My question is really would it be better to make it link off site or kill the formatting which makes it red? _Or do the implied request option and do make a page on this wiki?_ The fact that the formatting is there means that someone thought it needed a link to more information. I just don't think it is something which needs a page on the Tardis wiki itself. M. Gail P. 05:07, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Edit above comment - add "_Or do ... this wiki?_" M. Gail P. 05:59, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Usually, if it's a noun, it gets a page, no matter how little information we have. Even if it's just a mention by a character, it still gets a page. Shambala108 ☎  06:08, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Comic Book Guy?; 2.4 Rewrite
I'm pretty sure I speak for a lot of people when I say that "Worst! Rescue! Ever!" isn't used just because RTD's heard it from the Simpsons. I've known that phrase for a long time and used it outside of the Simpsons- I've only watched about two or three episodes in my life. I'm thinking we should take the reference of 'Comic Book Guy' and edit it to suggest a "possible reference". We're not in RTD's mind so we don't know if he's done it to create a deliberate link to that show. People on this Wikia get told numerous times to only add a "factual" point that you know to be actually fact so here, we must apply that rule too. Thank you :) The  Farty  Doctor   Talk  09:06, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Uncredited cast

 * Graske - Jimmy Vee
 * Jask - Dan Starkey
 * Time Lord - Roger Bailey

I left Vee and Starkey in, as they're very clearly the same Graske and Sontaran actors as the credited roles of Krislok, Skorr and Strax. I couldn't see Bailey's name anywhere in the credits, however. -- Tybort (talk page) 15:58, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

More unsourced uncredited cast:

They can only be added back to the page when they are properly sourced. Shambala108 ☎  02:45, October 16, 2014 (UTC)
 * Grayvas - Roger Bailey

Canon or Non-Canon?
I wanted to ask whether this story should even be considered Canon anymore now that the Doctor Who 50th Anniversery Special has come in and practically erased the repercussions of the Time Lock that sealed Galifrey in the Time War along with all those other abominations. Or did Galifrey enter Earth's Orbit before everything that happened in the last 20 minutes of that Special took place? I know at the beginning they mentioned that the Galifrey High Council had convened, but alot of the events in this special hinged on the Time Lords having been aware that the Doctor had stolen The Moment, which they didn't really become aware of until after the High Council was in session, or is my chronology all messed up?

And even if the Time Lord High Council was prematurely aware that the Moment had been stolen, that means that no one notified the General-In-Chief of the entire Galifreyan Military that the strongest weapon in the known Universe had been stolen, until he figured it out. And did the Moment even go about setting up a Time Lock? I got the impression that she didn't and that the Doctor just assumed she did.

ARGH THIS IS SO CONFUSING!!!

So is this story still canon? And if it isn't still Canon, what does that say for everything that happened After it? Cledwin83 ☎  08:53, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

I'd say it's canon, as if it wasn't canon, then, like the person above said, then HOW did the Tenth Doctor Regenerate into the Eleventh Doctor? Sergent Doomy Doom, Doomy Doomy Doomy Doom-BOOM! Boooooooom...Dooooom...Doom Boom. Doom Boom. Doom Boom. ☎  09:10, December 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * We don't use plot contradictions or alternate timelines to decide whether a story is covered on the wiki (especially since Moffat seems intent on wiping out huge chunks of stories prior to his). We have guidelines that determine whether a story is included or not. Any plot contradictions can be discussed in the Theory:Discontinuity index but on the main part of the wiki, if a story meets the four rules, it's included. Hope that helps! Shambala108 ☎  14:37, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

Well consider this, the council were in emergency session who did not want to be disturbed, so this means this story is STILL canon. The 10th Doctor and the War Doctor are not able to maintain this memory, but the eleventh Doctor IS capable because he's the current Doctor technically in his timestream. I consider this story to be canon, besides, if we discount this story... There will be a bunch of theories going on how the tenth Doctor really regenerated. :/ Who wants a mess like that? SpeedyTARDIS ☎  14:54, December 8, 2013 (UTC)

As the events did happen at one point (even if they were then erased from history) then they are still canon. Technically, everything prior to Big Bang 2 could be questionable in canon; but thankfully we don't worry about those either.

For those who feel that it isn't canon or feel the need to come up with some alternate explanation as to why Tenth might have regenerated then the answer is quite simple. He tripped over a brick. Tzvi ☎  00:11, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Even without the Gallifrey thing, the business with The Master still happened. You don't need a lame explanation like tripping on a brick to explain why he still regenerated.

Actually the tripping on a brick was a joke reference to The Next Doctor where Ten believing he had stumbled upon a future incarnation wonders how it happens and says something to the effect of "I hope I didn't just trip over a brick". I do agree that everything that happened in The End of Time is valid as the Doctor still experienced it. Tzvi ☎  05:06, December 27, 2013 (UTC)

Last Regeneration
As we find out in the time of the doctor, the eleventh doctor is the last incarnation, having used up all his regenerations. This means that the regeneration in this episode was the doctors last. I think this changes perspective a bit about him not wanting to die/regenerate. Because he knew that even if the prophecy did not mean his final death, it would at least force him to use his last regeneration. Because he didn't now the time lords would give him more as he thought they were all dead. I like it when things work together. --176.26.205.143talk to me 11:22, April 19, 2014 (UTC)

The King's Demons
In the beginning, when Wilf is at the old church, there is a story about a Sainted Physician who banished a demon. Could this be a reference to the story, The King's Demons?
 * I've not seen The King's Demons, but I thought that story was about the Master and King John, not a literal demon. -- Tybort (talk page) 14:01, April 27, 2014 (UTC)