Talk:Season 18B

Do we need this?
I have never heard of the theory before the page's creation, but this seems far too speculatory to reach any conclusions. There's a lot of vague wording about "difficult to reconcile" in expanded media, plus references hinging on an unmade 30th anniversary story (i.e. not covered by this wiki), linking narration (which I'm sure doesn't "count" as narrative, but I may be wrong on this) and a costuming error (even though I think I read that the First Doctor to Second Doctor has even bigger problems). Also, and I'm not 100% on this, but isn't there an implied gap between The Deadly Assassin and him travelling with Leela where other adventures could lie? -- Tybort (talk page) 19:30, July 22, 2012 (UTC)

Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and hasn't existed for some time. How do you explain the different shoes at the beginning of Castrovalva? How do you explain the elapsed number of years between being 760 and 900? When did the Master get the chance/time to create Castrovalva?

And, if you recall, during Season 14 the Doctor was travelling in the wooden "other" control room. He was also younger-looking.

It is clear that the Fourth Doctor must have had additional adventures before regenerating into the Fifth Doctor.

I first heard this theory from a fan I met in the mid-90's. I don't know how long it had existed before then.

(as an aside it is bizarre that something like Dimensions in Time, which was written/produced by JNT, and starred all the surviving Doctors, plus many companions, and aired on the BBC, is considered "not DWU", whereas things like PROBE ARE!)


 * Cite a source for it being a "fan theory". --Tangerineduel / talk 14:18, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

1)Google brings up 758 results for "Season 18b"

2)Cite a source that Dimensions in Time isn't canon(I don't mean your forceful POV), I CAN cite sources that JNT considered it to be canon. And it shows an older Season 18B Fourth Doctor Is that the reason you put "FULL STOP"?

3)Explain all the anomalies, the Doctor's age, the clothes, the VARIOUS adventures that don't fit into the continuity otherwise etc. etc.?

4)From dictionary.com

1)fan

fan 2 (fæn) — n 1. 	an ardent admirer of a pop star, film actor, football team, etc 2. 	a devotee of a sport, hobby, etc [C17, re-formed C19: from fan ( atic )]

2)theory the·o·ry   /ˈθiəri, ˈθɪəri/ Show Spelled[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Show IPA noun, plural the·o·ries. 1. a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine. 2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact. Synonyms: idea, notion hypothesis, postulate. Antonyms: practice, verification, corroboration, substantiation. 3. Mathematics . a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory. 4. the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory. 5. a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles: conflicting theories of how children best learn to read.

World English Dictionary theory (ˈθɪərɪ) — n, pl -ries 1. 	a system of rules, procedures, and assumptions used to produce a result 2. 	abstract knowledge or reasoning 3. 	a speculative or conjectural view or idea: I have a theory about that 4. 	an ideal or hypothetical situation (esp in the phrase in theory ) 5. 	a set of hypotheses related by logical or mathematical arguments to explain and predict a wide variety of connected phenomena in general terms: the theory of relativity 6. 	a nontechnical name for hypothesis [C16: from Late Latin theōria, from Greek: a sight, from theōrein  to gaze upon]

Okay, answer these:

1)How did the Doctor go from being 760 in Season 18 to 900 in Revelationof the Daleks?

2)In many World Distributors Annuals the Doctor is travelling with Adric and K9, How?

3)Some adventures feature the Doctor with K9 Mark III(!) and no others.

4)Who is the older Fourth Doctor in the Shada narration(and Dimensions in Time which YOU choose not to count)?

5)Who changed the Doctor's shoes from the moment he feel off the Tower to the moment the Fifth Doctor got up?

6)When did the Master have time to create Castrovalva?

7)Why was Adric so insistent on getting home around Earthshock, unless far more time had passed than was seen on screen(and the adventures in the Fifth Doctor Annuals)?

8)Where do all those DWM comics slot in? NOT between the Deadly Assassin and The Face of Evil as a)those were years before featuring a younger Fourth Doctor and b)the Doctor used the wooden control panel then!

9)There is clear opportunity for the era as seen in Logopolis episode 4, no?

10)Do you HONESTLY believe that just because YOU personally haven't encountered something before, it doesn't exist?


 * I'm not here to explain anomalies of narrative. Go to Howling:The Howling if you want to do that. Nor should articles be created to explain these things.
 * There are in fact only 7 page results when you search correctly for Season 18B.
 * Yes, you can get 758, if you only search for "Season 18B", but search for: "Doctor Who" "Season 18B" and it brings up 7 results.
 * Of those 7, 4 are from this very wiki and therefore must be excluded. There are then 3 left. The first from "Frothers Unite" is discussing a Doctor Who web comic and the poster who mentioned Season 18B states the web comic in question can't be a part of the season. The second page that turns up is concerning the Power Rangers, while the third is also concerning the Power Rangers. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:51, July 23, 2012 (UTC)

A couple more points:

"Asylum" is specifically set before the Doctor has met Nyssa. It does not require a Season 18b. "Millennnium Shock" features the Doctor travelling alone, and he meets Harry Sullivan many years after the latter left the TARDIS. This does not require a Season 18b. The fourth Doctor travels alone in a couple of stages of his television career; stories can fit here. Travels with Adric or Adric-and-K9 fit between E-Space and "Logopolis". The Doctor's age is always inconsistent. Minor changes of costume can be found throughout any television series.

1)Asylum-The Fourth Doctor is travelling alone. 'Nuff said. And anyway, his memories could have been wiped. 2)Millennium Shock-Actually that's the reason for Season 18B. It is clearly not set during Season 12/13. Yet the Fourth Doctor is travelling alone some time AFTER Face of Evil, and meets Harry. It disn't fit anywhere else but....Season 18B> 3)The Fourth Doctor only ever travelled alone between "Deadly Assassin" and "Face of Evil". And even then, it's clear the gap here is small. And anyway, the Doctor's knowledge of events, plus the wooden TARDIS control room exclude that. There is NO other point during the tv show where the Fourth Doctor travels alone(not a 'couple of stages'). It is also clear from the tv show that "Keeper of Traken" follows on directly from "warriors Gate". There certainly isn't any room from multiple Doctor/Adric stories(and some featuring K9!) And what about the Doctor/k9 stories, where it's clear it's Mark III? 4)NO it isn't, Before the New Series and all that "900" stuff, the Doctor's age in the classic tv series was consistent. When he DID tried to "drop" years he would be called out on it. What there are are unaccounted for gaps, such as the jump from 760 to 900. Clearly many adventures must take place here, and then there are adventures that don't fit into tv continuity, unless there is a Season 18B. 5)Yes, but we need an in-universe explanation. If we are to write a wiki which uses biographical-type articles of characters, places and events, we can't say something like "minor changes of costume can be found throughout any television series"! Otherwise this entire wiki is a waste of time and effort. Therefore we need an in-universe explanation, and the only one that makes any sense whatsoever...is that the Doctor changed his shoes sometime between falling off the Tower and getting up at the beginning o9f "Castrovalva". Which means there must be a narrative gap between these two events. Simple logic really.

Further to the above, the only tv gap where the Fourth Doctor was travelling alone was between "Deadly Assassin" and "Face of Evil". This was VERY SOON after "The Android Invasion", certainly not "many years after". At the same time, I'll need to look it up, but the Fourth Doctor was 749 when he began("Robot"), but was still only about 750 when travelling with Leela(need to check exact data), Therefore there is no narrative gap for all these stories to take place there. However there IS a VERY large available narrative gap...during Season 18B!

Shada narration
The narration is not by the fourth Doctor. It is by Tom Baker. Although he gets into character, it is made plain that he is still just the actor Tom Baker, seeing as how he refers to "Shada" as a story and recounts what happened to the actors in real life. This does not require a Season 18b

So, are you the one deciding when getting into character counts, and when it doesn't? What about the Big Finish Companion Chronicles? Here the actors are "getting into character", yet the CD cases promote the ACTORS' names. Does this therefore mean that the characters narrating the adventures are actually the real=world actors? Speaking of Tom, what about The Deadly Assassin? Is that the actor Tom Baker or The Doctor? And what about the Pescatons? Here, Tom Baker is narrating the adventure in-character as the Doctor. But I suppose, according to you.the character talking about travelling in "his" TARDIS with "his" friend Sarah Jane is actually Tom Baker. Because just because he's "getting into character" is irrelevant where you see fit for it to be! I look forward to the new adventures of Matt Smith this year. Yes, Matt Smith because just because he's "getting into character" as the Doctor doesn't mean anything, because it's clearly the actor Mat Smith. Oh wait...it DOES, that is precisely what "getting into character" actually IS. That an actor assumes a character, and then the adventures they experience, the tales they recount are those of the character, and not the actor. That is what "Acting" and "Characters" and "Scriptwriting" are actually all about in the first place. Since you admit he "gets into character" then he is the character of "The Fourth Doctor". Meaning, it's the Fourth Doctor, the same way the new Series will be the adventures of The Eleventh Doctor, and not the adventures of Matt Smith.

On google, if you type in 'Doctor Who Season 18B' you get 3,020,000 results

Unfortunately, lots of these are either saying it does not exist or are mistakes.

The Doctor's Age(better explanation)
In The Leisure Hive the Fourth Doctor says he us 760. Thus even if we want to force some adventures into gaps that don't exist PRIOR to The Leisure Hive he is still 760 at the beginning of Season 18. Then in Cold Fusion the Fifth Doctor says he was 813 when he regenerated. Thus 813-760=53. So there are 53 years from The Leisure Hive to Castrovalva. Now, let's go tv-story-by-tv-story.

1)The Leisure Hive-takes place over a short period of time. The Doctor is 760.

2)Meglos-Romana is still wearing the same outfit she was at the end of The Leisure Hive, and the adventure takes place over a short period of time.

3)Full Circle-the Doctor and Romana have just dropped off the human from Meglos and the end of Meglos is the first thing mentioned in Full Circle as JUST having happened. Takes place over a short period of time.

4)State of Decay-the Doctor and Romana are still very new to E-Space. Adric has just stowed away onboard the TARDIS. There is maybe a small gap between Full Circle and Stare of Decay. Takes place over a short period of time.

5)Warrior's Gate soon after State of Decay. Takes place over a short period of time. There is room for maybe a few adventures here, probably less.

6)Keeper of Traken the Doctor and Adric have just left Romana and E-Space. There is no gap here, contrary to what someone wrote above. Takes place over a short period of time.

7)Logopolis-The Doctor and Adric have left Traken recently. The Master has just taken over his new body. When Nyssa sees the Master, she doesn't indicate that it's been any period of time since she's since her father, Tremas. And she was a Daddy's girl. In other words, Logopolis takes place either immediately or VERY soon after Keeper of Traken.

So we then have maybe a very small room for wiggle, where maybe a few stories can slot in. But nowhere near 53 years.

So where are those approx. 50 years then? And why have the Doctor's shoes changed? Why does the Fourth Doctor look so much older in Shada(narration) and Dimensions in Time(which the BBC counts as canon even if this wiki doesn't, for some reason)? When did the Master have timke to set up the civilisation of Castrovalva? Why does Adric act(in Earthshock) like he's been travelling with the Doctor a lot longer than we have seen onscreen? Where do all those Fourth Doctor adventures slot into his narrative/timeline, now that we see the time from Robot to The Leisure Hive is nowhere near as long as certain people would like to claim it is? The answer to all of these problems is of course(altogether now...) Season 18B! Lose Season 18B, and the Fourth Doctor's era becomes a minefield of continuity errors, contradictions, and impossibilities. Accept Season 18B and it all fits together perfectly.


 * No. What I'm asking for is cited sources for the "fan theory" existing.
 * Not reasons that it could exist, not your theories. I'm not looking for "explanations". A page needs to be made up of information.
 * On the Season 6B there is established information, and printed sources which are also present on the BBC's site.
 * As you've provided none of this please take this discussion to Howling:The Howling. --Tangerineduel / talk 13:27, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

This is not Wikipedia. We don't require that every sentence be sourced and footnoted. All that is necessary is to establish general accuracy.

By the way, how can this NOT be canon:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/dimensionstime/

Or look what's there under this OFFICIAL BBC EPISODE GUIDE:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/index_az.shtml


 * I take it you're referring to the DWU discussion.
 * Unlike that topic there is no demonstrated use of the concept of a season 18B. The sources you cite merely state the existence of Dimensions in Time.
 * I'm not sure why you're mentioning DiT's canon, when this is a discussion concerning the validity of your Season 18B theory. --Tangerineduel / talk 13:11, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Dimensions in Time is clear BBC proof for the existence of Season 18B. If you would accept The Official BBC Doctor Who Website as a Valid Source, that means that Dimensions in Time is canon, and that means that there is a Season 18B. I am honestly wondering about your ability to comprehend simple logic now.

And it's not "my Season 18B theory". it is a widely-held view, which the BBC themselves have proved to be true. Your response was to say that the BBC aren;'t a Valid Source when it comes to Doctor Who....


 * Not on this wiki, Dimensions in Time is not canon. See Tardis:Canon policy and Tardis:Valid sources.
 * Just because the BBC has a page for Dimensions in Time doesn't validate your theory, the term "Season 18B", as I've mentioned above doesn't even throw up any relevant search results. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:53, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Deleting page
This is an obvious attempt to test this wiki's policies and to "trick" admin into breaking their own rules. Not having it. This 41. user has been engaged in a long process of pecking away at our policies. He has now been blocked for this.

Josiah Rowe, Tangerineduel and I have patiently explained our policies to him/her over at tardis talk:Canon policy. And this is so very clearly an attempt at further testing our patience that he/she has now been blocked for 3 days.

We've got other things to do around here but continuously get mired in the debate over what "counts". This page is in clear violation of our policies, so it goes — without further debate. 20:08: Sun 29 Jul 2012

The basic reasoning here is "Our polices don't work. Someone has pointed out that our policies don't work. So we are going to block them, and pretend that all is well."


 * No, the reasoning is "Someone has created a page in order to make a about our policies, a page which is not supported by any valid source (and which wouldn't be supported by a valid source even if, through discussion and consensus, we decided to include Dimensions in Time as a valid source). So we are going to block them for disruptive behaviour, and continue with our discussions in a civil and non-disruptive fashion." —Josiah Rowe  ☎  17:03, August 10, 2012 (UTC)