Talk:William Shakespeare

Shakespeare Code reference
I remember reading in DWM that a line of dialogue was written (and possibly filmed) to cover off by the Tenth Doctor acts as though he's never met Shakespeare before, even though the Fourth Doctor had. Unfortunately I don't have a source handy. Can anyone add this information?

The Kingmaker (spoilers)
SPOILERS: I understand that BFA: The Kingmaker has Richard III and William Shakespeare swapping places, so from 1597 onwards, "Shakespeare" is actually Richard. Now, Tardis:Canon policy states that Big Finish audios are a valid resource, so we CAN'T just ignore this. For one thing, that picture is actually of Richard III.--The Traveller 10:52, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

And in the ST All Done With Mirrors (from ST: Past Tense), Marlowe becomes Shakespeare in 1593, which means he's actually the one who swapped with Richard in 1597. --173.228.85.35 07:37, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Troilus and Cressida
When I encountered it, article said:
 * ... and another, Troilus and Cressida would, unknown to Shakespeare, be actually based upon the later life of the First Doctor's companion, Vicki, who adopted the identity of Cressida. (DW: The Myth Makers)

Thing is, I'm not sure we have a reference to that play in the DWU. If there's no reference to the play, then we can't assume it exists in the DWU, and therefore the link back to Vicki can't be made. We need to positively identify the play first, then make the link. In any case, this isn't the sort of thing that should be in the lead, because it's not talking about the person himself. 17:08:19 Sun 12 Jun 2011

I'm almost sure that in one of the novels, the Doctor mentions helping Shakespeare with a play but almost ruining it by adding in a character named Vicki. That would have to mean that Troilus and Cressida exists in the Whoniverse; what else could he be referring to?

The problem is, I can't remember which novel. The "Mentions" section here only lists one novel, Byzantium!, and it can't be that one. It really sounds like something from the post-Earth-but-still-amnesiac EDAs, and that would also explain why he thought he remembered helping Shakespeare write Troilus when as we all know (from Byzantium!, 'City of the Dead, etc.) that it was actually Hamlet'' that he helped with. --173.228.85.35 07:30, August 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, Googling "site:whoniverse.net shakespeare" turned up (among other things) The Tomorrow Windows, and I think I was misremembering that. From the Epilogue:


 * As they’d passed the Globe Theatre, the Doctor had launched into an improbable anecdote about helping Will Shakespeare to write Hamlet. However, probably due to the Doctor’s foggy memory, the anecdote had also included Leonardo DaVinci, a girl called Vicki, something called the Braxiatel Collection and the Daleks. It had been almost as confusing as the time he’d asked the Doctor if he’d ever been to Atlantis.


 * If that's what I'm remembering, it doesn't prove that Troilus exists in the Whoniverse after all; at best, it vaguely implies it (because it explains why Vicki and Shakespeare would be linked in his fragmented memory). So, never mind. --173.228.85.35 07:40, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Mentions
The "Mentions" section is definitely incomplete. Besides the one I can't remember (see above), off the top of my head, there's:


 * An ST story about Marlowe becoming Shakespeare (I can't remember which, but that's what I originally came to this page looking for…).
 * Either The Burning or one of the novels right after it, where the amnesiac Doctor remembers meeting Shakespeare and is puzzled by it.
 * Casualties of War, where the Doctor remembers meeting Shakespeare.
 * Theatre of War, which is all about Hamlet and reminds you of that repeatedly.
 * At least one NSA and at least one novel where Martha reminisces with the Doctor about The Shakespeare Code.
 * One of the Anji-era EDAs, where someone thinks a Brian Blessed Blackadder quote is from Shakespeare.
 * One of Paul Cornell's novels (I don't remember which, but I remember him writing about it on his blog… maybe The Shadows of Avalon?).

I'm sure there are others, but without taking the time to reread/watch/listen every novel, ST collection, episode, and BFA I don't really have enough info to fix the list.

Also, the article lists The Myth Makers as an appearance. Is there a scene I'm forgetting? --173.228.85.35 07:30, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, a bit of googling answered a few things:


 * The one I can't remember above is The Tomorrow Windows.


 * The ST is "All Done With Mirrors" from Past Tense.


 * The Burning and Casualties of War references above are both from Casualties of War.


 * Forever Autumn is the NSA, and The Lazarus Experiment and Daleks in Manhattan the episodes, with Martha talking about Shakespeare.

… and adds a lot more references. At least Last Man Running, The Room With No Doors, State of Change, Dragon's Wrath, Millennium Shock, Wolfsbane, The Clockwise Man, The Stone Rose, and The Stealers of Dreams all have someone explicitly mentioning Shakespeare, and there are dozens more novels that "reference Shakespeare" according to the Discontinuity Guide, but without details on what exactly that means. (In at least one case, Oblivion, I know there's no direct in-universe reference, it's just the novel using a quote from Shakespeare as a preface; in another case, The Clockwise Man, there is.) So, the only way to get a complete list would be to search all of the novels… And that's just the novels.

In fact, Shakespeare is mentioned so often that I think the best thing to do is not attempt a list of mentions for him, and just say in the article that he's mentioned frequently, or something like that. --173.228.85.35 07:56, August 20, 2011 (UTC)