Howling:The End of Time

Iv'e been looking through pics from filming of the end of time and found a rather interesting one showing a pile of bricks and a sign saying HM Prison Broadfell (found these at ). If theres a prison break, the only person i know of that could podssibly be in prison is Lucy Saxon, because on the torchwood missions website there is a mission report about what happened to the torchwood team during the events of the sound of drums/last of the timelords. And after they returned to cardiff they found out that Harold Saxon had been shot dead by his wife, if this is common knowledge in the world of doctor who then she was arrested and sent to prison). Which means it wasn't Lucy Saxon who oicked up the masters ring at the end of the last of the timelords. Also on the website it has a picture of Capt. Jack, and John Simm said (while he was on radio 2 on saturday) that John Barrowman WAS around but he didn't have any scenes with him. If Jack is back on Earth it means another series of Torchwood! Also Donna was sighted down an alleyway walking with the Master who was apparently wearing a human mask with grey hair. Donna is also getting married again, not flashback because she is wearing a different dress. Saxon 3 16:01, September 27, 2009 (UTC)Also Rose is appearing again but not in a full on appearance,The Doctor travels back to 2004(New years eve) and Rose is walking with her mum, Jackie walks in opposite direction and Rose walks toward the doctor - he asks what year it is she answers 2005 (just turned midnight so is 2005), the doctor says shes going to have a really good year (meeting the 9th doctor). The Doctor looks like he's in pain, another picture of the same setting, shows him on his hands and knees before Ood Sigma. Also might Mr.copper (Voyage of the damned) have something to do with the master seeing as his foundation funded the sub wave network. The sub wave network sounded a four beat beep when it was activated in the stolen earth. Or maybe Harriot Jones was involved, it's possible that she picked up the ring, and the master is the person who really designed the sub wave network. We didn't actually see her get killed in the stolen earth, we only heard the Dalek go exterminate and the screen go blank. They showed loads of people getting killed by the daleks, why would they exclude Harriot Jones? Also i found out that there wasnt a character present picking up the masters ring, it was some one from the crew, and if you look again at the hand picking up the ring you'll find that it's much too old to be the hand of Lucy Saxon, wich again points out that Harriot picked up the ring. Maybe she had been following the doctor, went to investigate what he was doing in the valley and was looking through the mess that was left and picked up the ring not knowing what or whose it really was, plus she would still have contact with people in politics and could have easily arranged a meeting with lucy saxon while she was in prison. Also whenever Wilf has got a hat on its always a red one with a badge with wings on, and he has army skills and saluted to the doctor at the end of journeys end, and he has an interest in space. Saxon 3 15:50, September 28, 2009 (UTC) Have noticed that in series 4 whenever donna was near the doctor (or his hand concerning the metacrisis)her ring started to flash! There is evidence that the hand who picked up the masters ring is donna's but there is also evidence to suggest it might have been Harriet aswell. Also numerous times in series 4 the sound of drums were heard, for instance in the unicorn and the wasp the old gramophone (or whatever it was that was emitting the music) kept playing the sound of drums in the background, and in the stolen earth when the sub wave network turned on the laptops/computers it came on with the sound of drums.


 * Considering all rumours I think this is the plotline for the last two specials:


 * Galifrey and the Time Lords are returning. Probably because the Doctor is doing things, he's not allowed to. Changing "fixed points in history". This will destroy the fabric of time itself (hence the title "End of Time"). As a consequence the timelocked events of the Time War will be "unlocked" allowing the Master, the Time Lords and maybe a few other things from the Doctor's past to return.


 * Maybe it won't be done by the Doctor alone, there are clues that maybe the Time Lords are trying to unlock the Timelock themselves. Remember the Face of Boe? His "great secret" he kept for such a long time was "You are not alone", which refered to the Master returning... or didn't it? Well it is a big thing for fans that Master returned but would it be a "great secret" from the perspective of the Face of Boe? Maybe "You are not alone" didn't only meant the Master.


 * Remember the episode where they went into "Pete's Universe"? It was never explained why the Time Vortex disapeared, which should be impossible. Rembember Dalek Caan? He went to Time War and back, which should be impossible, the Daleks used a Void Ship to travel the through the Void, which should be impossible... how could all this happen? Someone is obviously already "medling" around with "the rules".


 * If the Time Lords (or lets say some of the Time Lords) were trying to break through the timelock, they maybe managed to already sent a few people through "the Gate". Like the Master... he said he was resurrected to fight in the Time War, but he ran away... how could he escape to the end of the universe? The Time War is timelocked!


 * So if there are already more Time Lords, why is the Doctor not sensing them? He didn't sense the Master for he was using a Chameleon Arch. He did this to hide himself, but maybe there's another reason, maybe it is necessary to use a Chameleon Arch to not go insane like Dalek Caan when escaping the timelock. So there might already be more Time Lords who are not knowing that they are Time Lords. Who? Maybe the Masters wife... maybe River Song... or maybe Donna Noble, we will see... remember that it was her that convinced the Doctor in Pompeii to break the rules of not interfering a fixed point in history... we know from Family of Blood and Utopia that even when under the influence of a Chameleon Arch there are a few things the Time Lord unconciously seems to remember. Maybe she unconsciously wanted the Doctor to break down the fabric of time to unlock the timelock for she was sent by the timelords as some kind of vanguard with the mission to change fixed moments in time.


 * But neither the Masters wife nor River Song nor Donna had a Chameleon Arch... or maybe they had...that kind of clock The Doctor and The Master used is a male accesory, maybe Time Ladys use something different... like a ring... which would explain the strange ring Donna is wearing...


 * So in Waters of Mars the Doctor will break the rules by saving the crew of the base although their deads are a "fixed moment in time". Maybe this starts it all. Or maybe at first nothing seems to happen, so the Doctor starts to change more "fixed moments in time" and this massive changes open the timelock. The walls of time break down, the Time Lords return, but the damage done has to be fixed, causing the Doctors regenaration.79.216.162.19 21:46, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Ummm, I hate to spoil your theory, but it's a wide known fact that The Time war was only time locked after the war,not during. Good idea though. Saxon 3 22:02, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, okay, so the Master could escape the Time War without having to break through the timelock... but apart from this, I still think the whole idea makes sense.79.216.129.125 09:22, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

He already screwed up the timelock with "The Fires of Pompeii" by saving the family. I think "The Waters of Mars" is going to echo "The Fires of Pompeii". Even by the titles, they're similar. And I think you're onto something here. DoctorWhotheF*** - 17:57 - Nov. 14. 09

We have also been urged to look back at something Donna said in fires of pompeii, it has something to do with waters of mars. Dont know what though.

Ha ha, that was brilliant - the waters of mars. So, onto the trailer at the end. The MASTER is definite (what about that skull we saw?), donna check, and the Ood check. Now look at the part with the green lights, what could that be. There's a new Ood with a big head. A lot seems to happen on a construction site - what is the master building? - and we see Lucy Saxon in prison (which exp[lains the broadfell stuff). More about the darkness, and whats with all that electric stuff. Maybe the master is building the immortality gate. Whoa, so exciting.Saxon 3 20:10, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

Just had another thought. What if The Master is working with Joshua Naismith to create the immortality Gate.Saxon 3 20:28, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

Just had a thought about him flashing as a skeleton, so that the timelords could control him, the master is given 3 regenerations. they bring him back, he flees and puts his essence in the fob watch, regenerates to a child, during sound of drums he regenerates again into harold saxon, "dies" in LOTTL and regenerates into a similar saxonesque form where he is in his final regeneration that is unstable (ie. the deadly assassin)Geffe71 04:42, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

John Simm has said that this version of his Master is unhinged. I think maybe he has absorbed energy from something or other (immortality gate/ring when he came back) and gone totally bonkers, so mad infact that what happened with his head happened.

the only thing i noticed about donna talking in TFOP is chastizing the doctor for thinking 20,000 dead is okay. and that he doesnt need to save the whole town, just a few. nothing really about the waters of mars. Geffe71 17:04, November 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Strangely the only thing that made me think is the sentence "I'm going to die". This is not an "usual regeneration" this time. Despite that they of course find a way to keep the story going with Matt Smith next year, the Doctor is literally going to die, I think. I didn't expected that RTD really would have the guts to give the Doctor such a dark twist as he did at the end of Waters of Mars, and because this was just the teaser of what to come on Christmas, I think, this is going to be really remarkable. He's fighting time itself now, but it seems obvious that he won't be victorious. 79.216.166.66 17:53, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

I think when the Tenth Doctor Regenerates, the Valeyard will be created from the Doctor draining his evil thoughts about changing time. I also think the timelords will return somehow, meaning the Doctor will be able to travel to alternate realites and visit Rose and the others, plus i'm hoping Donna will get her memories back. - Kingfrogger666

On th Doctor Who commentaries for Water of Mars R.T.D and D.T say: Russell: ...because long ago the Ood said, "I think your song is sending soon," David: Yup, Russell: They knew, but how do they know? How can Ood be that psychic and that intelligent? How? What's happening? What's going on in the universe? Julie: You big, big tease. David: Time is running away with itself somehow. Russell: You'd think something is bleeding, coming through from the other side. Very strange... David: We'll have to come back and see what happens there... I think this could be because The Master is building The Immortality gate, but by doing it he is creating a rift in time and space across time and space. That is why the Ood are becoming so pshycic and that was how Ood sigma was able to make himself appear to the doctor at the end of waters of mars. They also talk about (in the commentary) about The Doctor chasing someone across a sort of quarry, but R.T.D says wasteland. What I think this is is the construction site on the trailer. Because there were a lot of scenes there. So The Doctor chases The Master across the consrtruction site. About Joshua Naismith, I think that maybe The Master has convinced him to help him and taken control of Naismith's staff - because on the trailer The Doctor is in the city centre and theres an explosion and he falls over, but the people around him don't ,move or show any kind of recognition. As for where The Doctor goes after The Waters of Mars, he is going to The Ood shpere, there The Ood tell him that every night they have bad dreams, and then all of a sudden tHEY ALL GET RED EYE. This is probably The Master's influence seeping through the rift. Although, it might be that The Immortality gate IS the rift! That would explain how Gallifrey and The Time Lords come back. But John Simm has stated that his Master is unhinged. Maybe (like when he looked into the gap in time and space in Sound of Drums when he was a child) he thought that if he looked into it again the drumming might stop, but instead it has made him even more insane than before and effected him compeletely, explaining why when he was laughing his skeleton was shown. Lucy Saxon is in prison, the Master breaks her out, The Master is using the Ark angel network/Neon by Naismith to make the Immortality Gate work, which explains how his influence is spreading throughout time and space. Remeber in Fires of Pompeii whe all of the seeres and oracles could actually predict what was going to happen, its the same thing with the Ood and who ever else is preditcting, but its all the Masters fault!!