Howling:Is the master race erased from history?

is the master race erased from history?


 * No. Rassilon turned them back into Humans, but the event was clearly still remembered at the end of the episode.Icecreamdif ☎  16:16, September 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * That may not answer the (admittedly unclear) question. The Master Race events had been reversed but not erased by the end of The End of Time. As far as I can tell, however, we've no way as yet of knowing if those events had been erased by the end of The Big Bang. --2.101.51.170talk to me 01:01, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * There was no reference to the events of The End of Time being erased in season 5, and thus no reason to believe it was erased.138.78.49.162talk to me 19:22, September 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * I was 138. I didn't realize I wasn't logged in.Icecreamdif ☎  19:24, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

But how do the Humans go through there life without going insane. The Master just turned transforming every human on Earth into a clone of himself. The consequences might not just be physical. The transformation could leave psychological damage. Couples might never recover due to submerged memories of when they both became the same person. And why did no one mention the events in the folowing episodes of the new series.

didn't you hear? it didn't really happen. the wifi just went crazy, giving everyone hallucinations. or at least according to a newspaper report written by somebody called Mr Smith. Imamadmad ☎  09:23, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Is not something you'd walk away from unscaved, there is a a Difference between a Alien invasion and being turn into a completely Different person and back again, And it still doesn't anyone explain why no one mention it in the new series.


 * Noone actually remembers being the Master. They only know that everyone turned into the Master because the transformations didn't all happen simultaneously, and because it was captured on camera. Once it became clear that it was just a mass hallucination caused by wifi, nobody had any reason to panic.Icecreamdif ☎  14:52, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

No reason to panic! Obama-Master “deleted” the economic quick-fix plan right after transforming, so, yes, they have the original memories. and how do you explain the headaches they had, it looks like a violence transformation!

Meh, the economy crashed after the Miracle anyway, so its not like it matters that the Master got rid of Obama's economic plan. Presumably he just destroyed the hard copies of the bill and deleted any computerized versions, which can easily be explained by the wifi. The wifi caused the headaches, and they don't actually remember being the Master.Icecreamdif ☎  17:36, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

but what happened to all the footage, and how does "a mass hallucination caused by wifi" shop anyone frow panicking about tho footage, you you can't film a hallucination. or the giaut planet in the sky, or the fact that they hear drums in their heads and some of them woke up in thr middle of the street or an alleyway

The footage is mostly digital and was tampered with by the wifi and possibly deleted by Mr. Smith. The giant planet in the sky was a hallucination, and come on, just one planet. These people have seen 27 planets in the sky. One planet is nothing. They don't remember being the Master, and the drums went away once Rassilon turned them back into Humans. Some of them did wake up in the middle of the streets and alleyways which caused minor panic. Sylvia even said that everyone was dialing 999 in the immediate aftermath. However, there weren't any more episodes that took place primarily on modern-day Earth until Night Terrors and by then everyone had gotten over it and were more concerned with the Miracle.Icecreamdif ☎  20:38, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

But why does nobody remember being the Master. and why did Russell T Davies think this was a good idea for his final story.

Nobody remembers being the Master because they weren't themselves at the time. They had another person's mind inside of theirs, and their own mind was gone. Rassilon put them back to normal, destroying their Master mind and bringing back their real mind. RTD thought thatwas a good idea for Tennant's final story because it was a very good idea for Tennant's final story.Icecreamdif ☎  00:21, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

I think the effects of the Master race were reversed, because otherwise people on life support or in wheelchairs would have all died. However that doesn't mean the event was erased. 94.72.194.203talk to me 10:15, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

The only actual onscreen reference we have is Luke telling Clyde:
 * That was the maddest Christmas ever, Clyde! Mum still doesn’t know what happened! She got Mr Smith to put out this story saying that WiFi went mad all across the world, giving everyone hallucinations. I mean, how else are you going to explain it? Every one with a different face…"

Maybe everybody remembered it, or maybe Luke remembered it because he's not human (so like the Vinvocci, and the Doctor, he wasn't affected) and hasn't yet realized that nobody else does. Either way, that implies that it hadn't been erased. And yes, many people on life support or in wheelchairs died during the change, and during the change back, and during the chaos in the aftermath when 999 was so overburdened that nobody could get through. So did millions of other people. So what? People die in Doctor Who, especially in RTD finales. The times when he's undone those mass deaths, he directly told us so (Last of the Time Lords, Turn Left). There's no evidence that happened this time.

As for whether the cracks or reboot erased the events, it's the same as every case except Journey's End and The Next Doctor: we don't know. On screen, nobody said. From Moffat's statements behind the scenes (and from the fact that Amy, etc., never mention it), we can infer that either the events were erased or the coverup was successful. But since we don't know whether the coverup was successful (and as implausible as it seems, from the only relevant line of dialog, it may well have been), that still doesn't help. We will never have an exact list of what events were erased by the cracks because Moffat never made such a list. --70.36.140.233talk to me 21:33, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

70, "maybe Luke remembered it because he's not human": The point about Luke is that he's not just human, he's archetypally human. That was what the Bane created him to be. --78.146.189.73talk to me 09:03, September 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * The Gate may still not have recognised him as human, or maybe Mr. Smith or K9 just told him about it. I wonder what happenned to other aliens who were living on Earth, like Mr. Copper.Icecreamdif ☎  00:55, September 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Since Luke was talking about Sarah Jane putting out an explanation for what had happened, a large number of people must have known about "everyone with a different face". You don't need a public explanation of what's happened if the public doesn't know anything has happened. There's no need, therefore, to suppose Luke knew about it because he's special. He knew about it because many people did. --89.242.77.146talk to me 03:54, September 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * My point was that there are two obvious ways that Luke could know about everybody turning into the Master: Either everyone knows, or Luke knows because he's not human (as far as the gate is concerned). But even if it's neither of those—if, say, K9 or Mr Smith remembered because they're computers, or Mr Smith figured it out after the fact by scanning the world's security camera recordings, or whatever—it _still_ means the event wasn't erased from history. So there's no point arguing about it (at least for the purposes of this discussion); no matter how it turns out, the Master Race was not erased from history by Rassilon.


 * As for Mr Copper and any others like him, presumably they didn't change. Which I guess proves that there aren't _too_ many aliens in disguise on Earth (certainly the world leaders aren't all reptiloids, so David Icke is wrong in the Whoniverse), or the Masters might have had more trouble? --70.36.140.233talk to me 07:27, September 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, there's no reason the gate wouldn't affect Luke, since he was intentionally made as human as it's possible to be. Probably almost everyone knew -- there will be a few who managed not to, for one reason or another, such as not being near anyone else at the time or just being the kind of people who consistently miss the glaringly obvious. I don't think, however, that there's any possibility that the Master Race was erased from history by Rassilon (by the Series 5 erasures is a different question). If it had been, it wouldn't matter whether Luke was human or not, he'd not have known about it & even Mr Smith (a Xylok) would have been unaware of it. Only someone who could remember the negated timeline would have remembered it.


 * The answer to the question, "why does nobody remember being the Master?" seems most likely to be: When they stopped being the Master they stopped having his memories & just remembered parts of the transition. --89.241.76.92talk to me 10:24, September 25, 2012 (UTC)

Or maybe there was evidence on video camera of someone changing into the Master. 94.72.194.203talk to me 15:31, September 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * 89: "no matter how [the Luke question] turns out, the Master Race was not erased from history by Rassilon". You just spent a paragraph repeating the exact same argument to come up with the exact same conclusion.


 * 94: "or Mr Smith figured it out after the fact by scanning the world's security camera recordings". I already dealt with that; it still doesn't make a difference to the conclusion that I and 89 both just explained.


 * As for whether the cracks/reboot erased the Master Race, I explained earlier why we don't and can't know. All Moffat has told us is that the erasures included all of the public invasions that weren't effectively covered up; we don't know whether this one was effectively covered up. --70.36.140.233talk to me 16:50, September 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * 70, It's not the same argument, even if it does lead to the same conclusion. You keep trying to say Luke isn't human -- or might not be, as far as the gate's concerned -- & that's simply not a possibility, so it can't be the reason for anything. It also doesn't need to be. --89.242.70.19talk to me 06:52, September 26, 2012 (UTC)

70: I was adressing 89, not you. Had I been adressing you I would have put "70:" in front of my post, much like I did here. You also seem to have misunderstood me. What I meant was maybe someone was filming somebody else and then both people are Mastered, one of them on the video. When that person returned to normal they would rewatch the footage and perhaps start to realise what happened, even if it makes no sense to them. I was arguing that there will have been some individuals who might have had knowledge of the event, even if they didn't remember it. My previous post had nothing to do with Mr Smith. 94.72.194.203talk to me 15:24, September 26, 2012 (UTC)