Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/Flesh and Stone


 * The Doctor tells Amy that she can't open her eyes for more than one second, however when she does she keeps them open for around 5 seconds.
 * This may have either been prolonged for dramatic effect or the Doctor just said that so she wouldn't do that.
 * I was pretty sure you could see the background moving behind it.
 * The image of the angel was also missing from her eye - I interpreted this as the angel that was forming in her mind having fled (either destroying itself or submerging into her mind) from the crack. This implies that what happened next - keeping her eyes closed while crossing the forest - was meaningless.
 * That's how I interpreted it too...
 * I don't think the image of the angel had to be there all the time. I agree with the person who said that either the scene was prolonged for dramatic effect or the Doctor exaggerated how little time Amy had to live with her eyes open (whoever that person may be). Bluebox444 21:49, May 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * When they're in the forest, and The Doctor is going to the Main Flight Deck with River and Octavion, he goes over to Amy, cuffs her head and says "Amy, later!" But moments later, he returns, with his sleeves ROLLED UP (when did this happen?!) WEARING HIS JACKET. She doesn't remember what he told her when she was 7. He's visibly closer, and more afraid for her at this moment. He kisses her forehead. Next scene, he's not wearing his jacket, his sleeves are rolled down and he's far more aloof. This is way too obvious to be a production error. What's going on with this? Double Doctor Syndrome? Something to do with the cracks? Ideas? Musedae 01:37, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is just a production error. They must have forgotten that the Doctor lost his jacket.
 * Are you sure? I'm inclined to disagree. I think it's way too obvious to be a production error, but that's just me...Musedae 16:18, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. WAY too obvious. Everything about that scene is incongruous with the rest of the episode - it has to mean something. Bluebox444 21:49, May 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * If the angels were wiped from history, then why Bob, Octavian, Christian and the other cleric still dead?
 * I was curious about that too. Especially since River said she might get pardoned. No one will remember that she did anything, so why would she get pardoned?? Musedae 16:18, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the bodies of Octavian and the other clerics were erased as well; that might explain why they were still dead. As for the consequences of the Weeping Angels being released...I don't know. One important thing to remember is that the crashed Byzantium was still there. Thus, "Angel Bob" must still have been there to crash it. Thus, we have to assume that some version of the Byzantium incident still happened. So, presumably, River can present the authorities with the evidence of what was going on in an attempt to gain her pardon. There ought to be some sort of evidence of the crack's presence, thus confirming that something weird was going on with time and corroborating her story. Bluebox444 21:49, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bluebox444, the underlying point remains: The whole episode becomes paradoxical – if Angel Bob is wiped from existence, then there was no cause of the crash. Then, those who were wiped from existence should be un-wiped, because they had no reason to be on Alfalva Matraxis otherwise. This includes the other Angels, because the erasure of Angel Bob prevents the cause for the crash of the Byzantium, and therefore the Crack on A. Matraxis in the first place... (Actually, how is that possible? The Doctor said the Crack in Amy's Wall would be there even if the wall was demolished, implying that the wall is immovable. So why is this Crack "attached" to the Flight Deck??) Even if that last proposition is false, the fact remains the episode shouldn't have happened. Garaiavu 11:02, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right, of course. (sigh) I'm getting a headache. Well, there are only two possibilities left - either Angel Bob actually wasn't wiped from existence (another problematic assertion) or the effects of such an erasure did not spread to the entire universe. There is some evidence for the second assertion. The clerics who went for a closer look at the crack were erased. So wouldn't it be logical to assume that other clerics would have replaced them on the mission? Actually, when you think about it, there's an inherent paradox in the idea of something being "erased" from history anyway. If something is erased, then it never existed, which means it was never erased, which means it did exist, and so on, and so forth. I don't think Steven Moffat would have screened this episode in the first place without thinking it through carefully, and I can only assume that some explanation will be presented for these problems before the end of the series. As far as the Crack is concerned, the Doctor said that the Crack was immovable, not the wall. It's been implied thus far that the Crack is an intelligent entity following the Doctor and Amy. It can't be moved, but it can move wherever it likes. Bluebox444 11:41, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Fasten your seat belts.
 * The Crack is an intelligent entity. The dialogue of the episode seems to imply that. It's hungry. Its sole intent is to get a meal; in this case, a nice dinner of Weeping Angels. Therefore, all its efforts will be focused on getting that meal. Also, it seems to be following the Doctor and Amy around, so it wants the Doctor to get to Alfalva Metraxis so it can eat the Weeping Angels.
 * "Angel Bob" was responsible for crashing the Byzantium. This event, in turn, brought River Song to Alfalva Metraxis. She brought the Doctor to Alfalva Metraxis, who in turn (it seems) brought the Crack there.
 * The Crack could have devoured the army of Angels without damaging any of these events. Time travelers aren't affected by changes in the timeline, so quite possibly the Angels aren't either. So Angel Bob could have crashed the Byzantium without knowing that his fellow Angels had been erased from history, in the new timeline that the Crack created. This would, of course, require the Crack to avoid erasing Angel Bob from history. Maybe it just killed Angel Bob and left his existence intact. Logic would seem to demand this.
 * The Clerics were erased from existence because their bodies were erased. Thus, the erasure of the Angels that killed them would have had no effect. They were never born, so they never came to Alfalva Metraxis in the first place.
 * One last thing - it's highly possible that there might be time travelers among the authorities who arrested River Song. They would have been able to sense that the timeline had been changed, so her actions - despite the fact that some or all of them occurred in an alternate timeline - would have still meant something to them.
 * So, there you are. It's not a foolproof explanation by any means. However, it does seem to cover everything pretty well. Logic doesn't really work on time paradoxes, so you're going to run into problems sooner or later with any attempt at explaining them. My advice is, let it go, and sit back and enjoy the episode. It's a really good one. Bluebox444 13:05, May 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * When they start moving on camera, they move a lot slower than normal speed for an angel. I noticed other flaws, but I don't feel like mentioning them now.
 * If you look at them your see there still stone, their only just turning back to flesh, so its not that unlikly they are slower in stone form then they are in flesh.


 * I think they're moving slowly because they're not sure Amy can't see them, and they're being cautious. Beyond that, I'm having a little trouble explaining this scene. I had assumed that the quantum lock was something the angels had no control over, which would mean that it wouldn't make any difference whether or not they thought Amy could see them. Since he's been brilliant thus far, I'm going to give the Grand Moff the benefit of the doubt and assume that he has a logical explanation for this - I only wish he would tell us. In any case, here's the best I can do at explaining this scene - the Angels are used to freezing whenever somebody comes along, so their "instincts" kicked in when they saw Amy coming and they froze. They weren't paying attention because they were so terrified of the crack, so the fact that her eyes were closed didn't register at first. When it started to dawn on them that she couldn't see, they moved slowly either because the fact hadn't registered yet, or just because they were being careful. Another thing to remember is that these Angels hadn't quite finished restoring, so their behavior might not be the same as that of other Angels. Bluebox444 21:49, May 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * In both The Eleventh Hour and Flesh & Stone, when the clock when from 11:59 to 12 (and it was night time outside) it goes from 11:59 AM on 6/25 to 12:00 PM on 6/26. It's REALLY weird. Look at...40:59 to 41:01. You have to fiddle with a clock for it to work like that. I'm sure people have already mentioned this in other places, but I thought I'd mention it here. What do you guys think this means? Because it has to mean something. We were purposely drawn to the clock at the end, and it was kind of obvious. Musedae 19:38, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * In the original episode where the Weeping Angels are introduced, and noted on the Weeping Angels page in this Wiki, it was noted that the Angels cannot even look at each other as they would turn to stone. This means that any instances where the Angels moved in a lit environment in this episode, unless they had their eyes covered (in the established "Weeping Angel" pose) are inconsistencies. If the previous Doctor was able to lock four of them in a circle around the Tardis by moving the Tardis and leaving them all looking at one another, then any scenes where Angels could see other Angels in this episode (unless the lights were out) would have produced the same result.