Howling:River Song's Diary

Hello, I have a querie about river's diary...

I was wondering, if River is indeed meeting the doctor strictly in reverse order, then every adventure she has with him, he will get younger and younger,, and her past is his future etc. Therefore, they will never meet and have had the same experiences, and so the whole point of having the diary is useless... apart from as a general diary,, and to keep track of his faces.

But surely asking "have we done so and so yet" the answer is always going to be "no."

Now I know in Impossible Astronaut it broke the pattern slightly, as she met a future doctor and so they had indeed had somee shared adventures (jim the fish) but in all other instances, the diary seems to be pointless...

I don't know if that made sense, or I'm barking up completely the wrong tree, but could someone help me make sense of this, because the whole thing has been confusing me for days, thanks.UnicornandtheWasp 16:23, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, with the backwards order thing it is completely pointless, but that it just what River thinks about how they meet, they are time travellers, somewhere down the line after the Doctor meets her as a child he could see her again in a later incarnation. --Revan\Talk 16:25, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

well her meetings with the doctor could possibly not be in revese order for instance in toa/fas the box could of been come across by any doctor and also i sitl/fotd she needed to check to see if the doctor knew her or she would of never found out if you think about it it has some use to check on what the doctor knows Whooligist 17:34, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it was River's diary that helped her realize she was meeting him in reverse order. She did not know that from the beginning...it took three or four meetings to establish the pattern for her. Her diary helped her establish that pattern. -- Rest In Peace Sarah Jane \ Talk to me! 19:52, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

From River's point of view, she has met the Doctor more than 3 or 4 times, and she hasn't met him any of the times we have seen her meet him yet. The "beginning" that you're talking about is actually the end from her point of view. So far, the Doctor has only met River in reverse order, but this will presumably change. The fact that River always compares diaries with the Doctor proves this, as does the fact that she seemed unsurprised that she and the 1103 year old Doctor shared some experiences, and that River met a much older Doctor shortly before Silence in the Library. Even if we didn't have all of this evidence, it would be incredibly unlikely that River and the Doctor always met in perfect reverse order, as that would be the most amazing coincidence in the universe. River never said that she is meeting the Doctor in perfect reverse order. She said that, in general, she meets younger versions of the Doctor over time. By the time of the episodes that we have seen River in, she would have encountered the Doctor enough times to know that the diaries were useless if they were actually meeting in reverse order. Icecreamdif 20:19, April 29, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I did think it was a bit "What are the chances" if they met strictly always in reverse order, but just trying to get my head around the logic of it all got me so confused, I thought I'd better ask some people who are a lot cleverer than me, so thanks. UnicornandtheWasp 10:09, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, this is how it works. Young River meets the 13th Doctor, and 1st Doctor meets Old River, which means that as our current doctor is meeting her, she is getting younger, while to her, he is getting older. Then at one point, probably half way through his sixth incarnation, they met at the right point in time, seeing as that was the mid point. Just hold up bboth of your index fingers, call on of doctor and the other river, and just move them in oppesite directions. It's pretty simple really. While the Doctor moves forwards, river is moving backwards and vica versa. Hope you get it now! --Ghastly9090 10:16, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

River never met any of the first 9 Doctors. The Doctor didn't meet her until Silence in the Library, when he was already in his 10th incarnation. That episode made it pretty clear that this was the earliest in the Doctor's timeline that they had met. Every time the Doctor meets her, River is not necessarily younger than last time, and every River meets him, he is not necessarily younger than the previous time. Otherwise, there would be no need to compare diaries, and we have seen and heard of some examples of them not meeting in perfect reverse order. Icecreamdif 18:35, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Also, keep in mind that River is not omniscient. She's figured out, after tracking their relationship over time, that there's a pattern that they're meeting in reverse. That doesn't guarantee that they'll always meet strictly in reverse order.

On top of that, she's a human being in love. Once she realized the implications--that one day there will be a last kiss for her (even if it wasn't the one in Day of the Moon), and one day there will be a Doctor who doesn't even know who she is--how could she avoid dwelling on the implications of that and blowing them up even bigger than they are? That last kiss, and that last meeting, are no less tragic for the fact that maybe, once or twice, she'll get to meet an older 11 who does remember her somewhere between those two events.

Anyway, the Diary probably started out as a fun thing, a way to compare notes with someone she was meeting in what seemed to be a random order. Toward the end, after she spotted the pattern, it became a tragic thing. But she's still going to keep comparing diaries with him (as we saw in their last three meetings), always hoping that she's wrong about the pattern. Wouldn't you do the same? --99.33.26.0 06:53, May 5, 2011 (UTC)