Talk:The Five Doctors (TV story)

Is the current format of the plotholes/errors section of this article seriously within guidelines? It seems very un-wiki to me to have two people arguing over events/opinions within the article itself, with very obviously two voices present in the narration. 203.33.165.216 08:23, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It occasionally needs a clean up. The comments in italics should come from canon and shouldn't contain speculative phrases. --Tangerineduel 13:36, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

In the Five Doctor's why has susan stayed the same, i mean if she is a time lord and she looks older then how has she stayed in the same form since we first saw DOCTOR WHo? regenerate already 11:47, 17 april 2010


 * Make-up. (Legacy of the Daleks)OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 11:18, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

"Game of Rassilon" link
The "Game of Rassilon" link in The Five Doctors (TV story) redirects to Help:Game of Rassilon, which is outright insane.

There ought to be a page for the original Game of Rassilon, as featured in the show. That, after all, is what anyone clicking on the link is going to be trying to find out about, not this wiki's game of the same title.

You may need a disambiguation page to sort out the confusion that results from this wiki's appropriation of the title for its own purposes. --2.101.53.235talk to me 22:50, August 26, 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the Game of Rassilon links as it does not lead to a page describing the Game as detailed above. When such a page is created then the links can be re-installed. Ventry Girl ☎  06:28, August 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * I have created a page for the Game of Rassilon and rolled back the two edits removing the links. Thanks for making us aware of this. --Tangerineduel / talk 06:56, August 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for creating the page for the Game of Rassilon! Ventry Girl ☎  16:09, August 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * I wish you'd checked the "What Links Here" before you made this frankly major change, Tangerineduel. There are so many links to Game of Rassilon-as-redirect-to-Help:Game of Rassilon that the system can't display even a good fraction of them.  There are also links in the javascript.  Every single page displays a link to Game of Rassilon-as-Help:Game of Rassilon.


 * I left behind adequate notes explaining the rationale for this change, but maybe it would help o explain the state of Game of Rassilon when I repurposed it a year ago. It redirected to Death Zone, and had done for four years, since its creation. There were zero link to it at the time.  No one seemed interested in it, probably because Terrance Dicks never defined the damned thing with any clarity.


 * In any event, the server load required to fix these tens of thousands of links is immense. So I've restored Game of Rassilon as a redirect. There are two avenues open to us going forward.  We could just make The Game of Rassilon the page about the DWU concept.  Yeah, that's an additional article, and we don't like doing that, but this is a special case.  Or we could just have a sidebar at Help:Game of Rassilon which gives what's known about the in-universe concept.  It could pull double duty as  it were.  That, too, is an unusual solution, but what we know about the Game is so little, we could easily accommodate it at the help page.   05:31: Thu 06 Sep 2012


 * Just go with the easiest. The Game of Rassilon. When they're all in the Dark Tower the wobbly hologram of Rassilon makes it sound like it's the definite article "This is THE Game of Rassilon". --Tangerineduel / talk 05:36, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

I'm new to this wiki, but I was thinking that it might make the understanding of "JNT" easier if we add (JNT) after the introduction of John Nathan Turner's name. Even I looked around for a while to see if that was what JNT meant. In fact, I'll make the edit, and if it isn't allowed, just take it out. Thank you. And I'll change my sig soon so you can see it better. Jay JLOM Things turn out for the best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out - John Wooden 06:15, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

Perspectives
It mentions that an explanation for the second Doctor's knowledge of Jamie and Zoe's fate may have come from conversation with the third Doctor. While a possible solution, it adds too many variables to be just given as a solution without a good deal of discussion needed, such as why the third Doctor would casually violate his own history/to what end would he tell his younger self, why the Doctor would assume Jamie and Zoe were supposed to be from his personal future, etc. I am going to remove it and leave it as otherwise learning of their fate unless there's objection.--Trebligoniqua  ☎  15:49, April 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * This one is quite old but I think it could be taken up again... It could also be that, given the Doctor never really bother about rules, did hop out of his personal timestream after he said his goodbyes but before he was doomed to exile and change of appearance. --DCLM ☎  18:42, July 28, 2014 (UTC)

Portmeirion
I removed the reference to Portmeirion as a filming location. It was not. The architect of Portmeirion lived a few miles away and they shot there, as well as other locations in the vicinity, but not in "The Village" itself. Source: http://www.doctorwholocations.net/locations/portmeirion. 68.146.70.124talk to me 19:45, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

Taken out of Time
The First Doctor, by his surprise of seeing Susan again, is clearly taken out of time some time after The Dalek Invasion of Earth.

The Second Doctor mentions Omega which means he's taken out some time after his pop-out of time in The Three Doctors, and also mentions when seeing Jamie and Zoe that they were made to forget him which means, if the suggestion above is not true, that he jumped out some time between his goodbyes and his exile/change of appearance during The War Games.

The Third Doctor remembers the Second Doctor from their previous encounter in The Three Doctors, by the means of how they adress eachother, and must be taken out somewhere after that.

And finally the Fourth Doctor is directly, and clearly, taken out of time from the boat scene in Shada. -DCLM ☎  19:37, July 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * The Second Doctor placement isn't as cut and dried as that. See Season 6B. 23skidoo ☎  17:08, April 20, 2016 (UTC)


 * If the Third Doctor knows Sarah, then he must be from well after The Three Doctors.165.225.80.75talk to me 11:16, October 9, 2018 (UTC)

Corpsing, or intentional?
Just after the Ring of Rassilon teleports back onto the “dead” Rassilon's finger, the body appears to wince or wink. Is it just "corpsing", and thus, a production error? Or is it intentional, fitting with the fact that Rassilon isn't properly dead but in some weird "forever-sleeping" state? --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  17:39, September 26, 2018 (UTC)

Levene
"The role of Colonel Chrighton was originally intended for Sergeant Benton, but John Levene declined to appear in a cameo."

My understanding is that Sergeant Benton was originally planned as the sergeant eventually played by Ray Float165.225.80.75talk to me 11:15, October 9, 2018 (UTC)

A long line?
This page currently claims that "this story marks the end of a long series of linked storylines that began with The Leisure Hive", but does it?

Leisure Hive leads into Meglos through the damaged K9, Meglos into Full Circle through the summons to Gallifrey, Full Circle into State of Decay through a direct cliffhanger, but does anything suggest Warriors' Gate takes place IMMEDIATELY after State of Decay? They're both part of the E-Space arc but who's to say how long they spent in E-Space? Then Warriors Gate does lead into Traken because they've clearly just escaped E-Space, Traken has another direct cliffhanger, as does Logopolis, but where does ANYTHING suggest Castrovalva goes right into Four to Doomsday? Then Four to Doomsday has a direct cliffhanger, The Visitation has Tegan discuss being possessed by the Mara, Black Orchid has Nyssa mention what they've "just done to London", Earthshock has the Doctor having clearly just started reading the titular book he was given in Black Orchid, Time Flight basically uses its first scene to wrap up Earthshock, but isn't there quite famously a juicy EU gap between Time Flight and Arc of Infinity if you want to do a Five story without being overstuffed with companions? And does Arc of Infinity lead into Snakedance, either? Snakedance to Mawdryn Undead is another case of the final scene of one story effectively being ported into the next, and then Terminus and Enlightenment are linked through The Black Gaurdian, which is linked to King's Demons through Tegan's lingering distrust of Turlough, which is linked to Five Doctors through the Eye of Orion.

OK that was a very long post but... can somebody close all those potential gaps I mentioned or does this "trivia point" need to be removed?

Snakedance mentions Omega. Also, in Warriors' Gate the Doctor and Romana discuss for what very much seems to be the first time "hang on, if we leave E-Space with Adric we'll be taking him out of his own universe" which if there was a significant gap between the stories you'd think they'd have mentioned before. Unsure for the rest though... NightmareofEden ☎  23:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

I guess you could argue based on Nyssa mentioning the Cyberman damage on the console in Arc, but seriously is the Doctor procrastinating on repairing the TARDIS anything new, especially as they definitely don't act as if Tegan's departure is recent, and when they do see her again they don't act if she, from their perspective, just left. So I'd say the evidence against outweighs the evidence for in that case. Unsure about Castrovalva to Four to Doomsday either way. NightmareofEden ☎  23:19, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Actually I just realised something. This trivia point definitely CAN be removed. Flight to Infinity is already a stretch since as I said they definitely don't act as if Tegan's departure is recent, as is Castrovalva to Doomsday since the Fifth Doctor's new personality only even stabilises in the very last scene of Castrovalva yet they seem pretty well used to it by Doomsday. But, I'm literally watching Warriors' Gate RN and there are two things actively suggesting at least one "missing" E-Space adventure. The first is Romana changing clothes. Sure, she could have done that while the TARDIS was in flight. There's no in-universe reason she couldn't have done that. But, back in the real world, one must remember how rarely characters changed outfits in this era. So having a character does so does seem like authorial intent was to suggest a missing adventure. Additionally, the Doctor is still focused on getting Adric back to Alzarius at the end of Decay, but in Gate, as I already mentioned but the implication neglected to dawn on me, he plans to take him with them back to N-Space all of a sudden. These two facts combined are evidence enough for an intended missing E-Space adventure that I shall now remove this trivia point from both here and the Leisure Hive article. Two of the so-called "gaps" have evidence putting them into severe doubt, and one more has evidence almost totally disproving it. I think that's enough to conclude that this is factually wrong, and cannot reasonably be concluded either in-universe or out. If I am missing some line or something that suggests otherwise an editor may put this back if they can back such a decision up, but for now... no. Bye bye. NightmareofEden ☎  10:39, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

OK, OK, last point I promise. Technically Romana is wearing a different outfit in State of Decay to Full Circle and Full Circle to Meglos (but not Meglos to Leisure Hive, interestingly enough, at least at first), so it seems costume changes aren't as rare as I remembered. HOWEVER, I think in those cases we can fairly assume she DID literally change clothes and nothing else since we have on-screen evidence AGAINST a gap. But in the face of no other evidence, the costume change combined with the Doctor's change in attitude about getting Adric back to Alzarius is enough of a doubt to make that trivia point at the very least dubious if not fully debunked IMO. alised something. This trivia point definitely CAN be removed. Flight to Infinity is already a stretch since as I said they definitely don't act as if Tegan's departure is recent, as is Castrovalva to Doomsday since the Fifth Doctor's new personality only even stabilises in the very last scene of Castrovalva yet they seem pretty well used to it by Doomsday. But, I'm literally watching Warriors' Gate RN and there are two things actively suggesting at least one "missing" E-Space adventure. The first is Romana changing clothes. Sure, she could have done that while the TARDIS was in flight. There's no in-universe reason she couldn't have done that. But, back in the real world, one must remember how rarely characters changed outfits in this era. So having a character does so does seem like authorial intent was to suggest a missing adventure. Additionally, the Doctor is still focused on getting Adric back to Alzarius at the end of Decay, but in Gate, as I already mentioned but the implication neglected to dawn on me, he plans to take him with them back to N-Space all of a sudden. These two facts combined are evidence enough for an intended missing E-Space adventure that I shall now remove this trivia point from both here and the Leisure Hive article. Two of the so-called "gaps" have evidence putting them into severe doubt, and one more has evidence almost totally disproving it. I think that's enough to conclude that this is factually wrong, and cannot reasonably be concluded either in-universe or out. If I am missing some line or something that suggests otherwise an editor may put this back if they can back such a decision up, but for now... no. Bye bye. NightmareofEden ☎  10:39, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

OK, OK, last point I promise. Technically alised something. This trivia point definitely CAN be removed. Flight to Infinity is already a stretch since as I said they definitely don't act as if Tegan's departure is recent, as is Castrovalva to Doomsday since the Fifth Doctor's new personality only even stabilises in the very last scene of Castrovalva yet they seem pretty well used to it by Doomsday. But, I'm literally watching Warriors' Gate RN and there are two things actively suggesting at least one "missing" E-Space adventure. The first is Romana changing clothes. Sure, she could have done that while the TARDIS was in flight. There's no in-universe reason she couldn't have done that. But, back in the real world, one must remember how rarely characters changed outfits in this era. So having a character does so does seem like authorial intent was to suggest a missing adventure. Additionally, the Doctor is still focused on getting Adric back to Alzarius at the end of Decay, but in Gate, as I already mentioned but the implication neglected to dawn on me, he plans to take him with them back to N-Space all of a sudden. These two facts combined are evidence enough for an intended missing E-Space adventure that I shall now remove this trivia point from both here and the Leisure Hive article. Two of the so-called "gaps" have evidence putting them into severe doubt, and one more has evidence almost totally disproving it. I think that's enough to conclude that this is factually wrong, and cannot reasonably be concluded either in-universe or out. If I am missing some line or something that suggests otherwise an editor may put this back if they can back such a decision up, but for now... no. Bye bye. NightmareofEden ☎  10:39, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

OK, OK, last point I promise. Technically Romana is wearing a different outfit in State of Decay to Full Circle and Full Circle to Meglos (but not Meglos to Leisure Hive, interestingly enough, at least at first), so it seems costume changes aren't as rare as I remembered. HOWEVER, I think in those cases we can fairly assume she DID literally change clothes and nothing else since we have on-screen evidence AGAINST a gap. But in the face of no other evidence, the costume change combined with the Doctor's change in attitude about getting Adric back to Alzarius is enough of a doubt to make that trivia point at the very least dubious if not fully debunked IMO.

alised something. This trivia point definitely CAN be removed. Flight to Infinity is already a stretch since as I said they definitely don't act as if Tegan's departure is recent, as is Castrovalva to Doomsday since the Fifth Doctor's new personality only even stabilises in the very last scene of Castrovalva yet they seem pretty well used to it by Doomsday. But, I'm literally watching Warriors' Gate RN and there are two things actively suggesting at least one "missing" E-Space adventure. The first is Romana changing clothes. Sure, she could have done that while the TARDIS was in flight. There's no in-universe reason she couldn't have done that. But, back in the real world, one must remember how rarely characters changed outfits in this era. So having a character does so does seem like authorial intent was to suggest a missing adventure. Additionally, the Doctor is still focused on getting Adric back to Alzarius at the end of Decay, but in Gate, as I already mentioned but the implication neglected to dawn on me, he plans to take him with them back to N-Space all of a sudden. These two facts combined are evidence enough for an intended missing E-Space adventure that I shall now remove this trivia point from both here and the Leisure Hive article. Two of the so-called "gaps" have evidence putting them into severe doubt, and one more has evidence almost totally disproving it. I think that's enough to conclude that this is factually wrong, and cannot reasonably be concluded either in-universe or out. If I am missing some line or something that suggests otherwise an editor may put this back if they can back such a decision up, but for now... no. Bye bye. NightmareofEden ☎  10:39, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

OK, OK, last point I promise. Technically Romana is wearing a different outfit in State of Decay to Full Circle and Full Circle to Meglos (but not Meglos to Leisure Hive, interestingly enough, at least at first), so it seems costume changes aren't as rare as I remembered. HOWEVER, I think in those cases we can fairly assume she DID literally change clothes and nothing else since we have on-screen evidence AGAINST a gap. But in the face of no other evidence, the costume change combined with the Doctor's change in attitude about getting Adric back to Alzarius is enough of a doubt to make that trivia point at the very least dubious if not fully debunked IMO. NightmareofEden ☎  11:05, 1 December 2021 (UTC)