Board Thread:The Panopticon/@comment-188432-20130129081336/@comment-1166667-20130401051841

OttselSpy25 wrote: Witoki wrote: The Doctor is a time traveler. Within that very episode we had a dead 1103-year old Doctor and a living 908-year old Doctor. No conflict, no issue. Even before we knew about the Teselecta, the page said quite plainly that the Doctor was dead.

We are not told that Oswin, Clara Oswin, and Clara are the same woman. We are told that the Doctor believes them to be the same, even though (once again), none recognizes him.

All logic points at three separate individuals. It is massive speculation to suggest they are the same woman.
 * We meet Oswin in the distant future. She does not know the Doctor. She dies.
 * We meet Clara Oswin in the 19th century. She does not know the Doctor. She dies.
 * We meet Clara in the 21st century. She does not know the Doctor.

I have yet to see any response to this question: '''We treat Rory Williams and Auton Rory as separate individuals, yet Rory retained the memories of his Auton counterpart and the Doctor believed them to be the same. Why does this same logic now not apply to Clara?'''

Sigh... BECAUSE IN The Way Through the Woods THE DOCTOR AND RORY HAVE A LONG CONVERSATION WHERE THEY AGREE THAT ALTHOUGH RORY AND HIS AUTON DUPLICATE WERE THE SAME THEORETICALLY, THEY WERE ALSO DIFFERENT. EVEN THOUGH HE SHARED SOME OF THEIR MEMORIES, THEY WERE SAID TO BE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

There, you happy? The reason is that we have an in-universe secondary page on Rory is that we have an in-universe source that says that they were different. 'Now will everyone please'' stop trying to relate the case of Clara to other cases? I've heard one too many irrelevant and stupid "Ooooh, but the Master is all together" "what about the teselecta?" arguments in these and they're quite frankly annoying and tedious. The case of the Claras is a unique one that will take decisions based off of it's own right, so let's just discuss it as it is and not as a theoretical relation; ALRIGHT?'''

Sorry to get mad, but no one seems to be able to focus in this discussion!

And "same theoretically, but also different" doesn't apply here because...?

SmallerOnTheOutside wrote: Clara's situation is "impossible," but true. Even the Doctor doesn't contradict the facts. But it's something new, something he'd never encountered before. He can't explain it, but he sees the connection. We can't explain how she can be the same person. According to so-called 'common sense', she can't be. But she clearly is!

And how do we know it's true? The whole point of her is that she is a mystery. Literally the arc of the next two months is going to be about her impossible existence.

We CANNOT assume that three women who live in different time periods are the same woman. You are taking the side of the unlikelier possibility, that one woman is transcending spacetime. There is more proof that they are different than that they are the same.