Talk:The Woman (The End of Time)

Identity
Was it stated, or was it just left at someone who left him a long, long time ago? IE Romana or Susan? --Golden Monkey 20:00, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Noticed Something
When I watched episode in full for the second time today, I noticed when she removes the hands from her face and looks at the Doctor she actually gives him an eye signal (like a "pst look over there"). I might be interpreting it wrong but it seems to me he decided to shoot the machine because she gave him the (better) idea and not because he noticed her crying. It's not a huge detail but it kind of puts perspective of how the Doctor was thinking at the moment or rather how he was not. Plus, mother knows best even when it's the Doctor.

I noticed her eye signal, too. When he is looking at her she keeps moving her eyes towards where the Master was standing, and that is when he turnes around one final time. It was what you could see as her guding him to make the right choice, a very mother/son relationship thing, I might add. Like she was looking out for him. Delton Menace 20:24, January 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * I noticed that too, but I thought it was just a nod of encouragment.--WarGrowlmon18 21:22, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

date of episode
The article previously mentioned that the first time she appeared was Dec 23 2010. I changed this to 2009 since that is the obvious timing for the episode. Is there some specific reason to think that this Christmas was a year ahead? --Jdvelasc 18:58, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

There is none... The Next Doctor took place in the past, which allowed The End of Time to take place on Christmas 2009. However, this also places Planet of the Dead and The Sarah Jane Advetnures series 3 in 2009, too. But they pretty much fit.

Children of Earth was September 2009, SJA series 3 October and November 2009, The End of Time December 2009. Both this years and last years stories take place in the same year as part of Russell T. Davies cleaning things up for Moffat. Seriues 5 Doctor Who seemingly spans 2010. Also, there was apparantly a moment in commentary where Donna's second wedding taking place in early 2010 (spring) was mentioned. People don't realise how the timeline is in sync as of now. All they needed to do was date this year's stories ina certain was to have them take place in the same year as last years stories. Delton Menace 04:35, January 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just responding to Jdvelasc's question in a slightly simpler fashion, the original date given was based upon the fact that the first 4 seasons established (and maintained) that events on "present day" Earth take place one year ahead. This is due to the events of Aliens of London which took place in 2006, but was produced in 2005. Beginning with Children of Earth, and continuing with The End of Time (not so much Planet of the Dead, except that it clearly takes place post-Journey's End per character dialogue about planets in the sky) the timeline has apparently been resynchronized so that "present day" stories are once again taking place in the year they're broadcast. 23skidoo 23:18, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Behind the Scenes is flooded!
Every single thing in the behind the scenes is all about the same thing, and it's completely flooded. It's huge, almost bigger than her article itself. And it's all about the same thing. I suggest we just clear it all up into one behind the scenes info for her relationship with the Doctor, one thing mentioning the things that sourced her as his mother all together, instead of sepperate and all the speculation. Delton Menace 03:00, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Question: when Wilf asks the Doctor who the woman is and the Doctor declines to answer, people have been putting it down to unwillingness to discuss it. However, I don't recall she and the Doctor ever interacting, so could the Doctor's "refusal" to answer be more along the lines of him wondering what woman Wilf is talking about?

She appears to him at the end when Rassilon brings the Timelords to Earth so while it was brief he did know who Wilf was talking about. Plus he had a look of sadness on his face which wouldn't be a usual reaction to not knowing what someone is talking about. GrimmShadows talk to me 03:38, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Weeping AngEls reference
I just watched the two part special, "The End of Time", and loved it. I'm wondering though if "The Woman" is somehow connected to the Weeping Angels? I'm sure I heard the President make a reference to them just before he and his select council transported from Gallifrey to Earth. (Something about bring these two weeping angels with us ... referring to the two dissenters, "The Woman", being one of those.)

If you study their posture during the whole time while they were in the lab on Earth, they were mimicking the deportment of the weeping angels. When "The Woman" uncovered her eyes, indeed she was weeping, and when the Doctor said look out - I thought it was because he recognized her as a weeping angel, and that something was going to happen imminently.

Since no one else has mentioned this connection, or theory, perhaps I'm off in left field - but - thought it was worth mentioning, and hoping someone else has some thoughts along this line.

74.12.235.19 02:21, June 27, 2010 (UTC)uptergroveGreg

I believe that the line where Rassilon mentions the Weeping Angels was something along the lines of: "Only two voted against, and will stand as monument to their shame, like the Weeping Angels of old." 96.50.150.81 01:09, July 12, 2010 (UTC)

Name
I don't think it should be called "The Woman" because that can refer to any woman. It should be renamed to "Woman (The End of Time)", don't you think? BroadcastCorp (talk | contribs) 09:50, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

The page should be renamed the doctors mother becuase she is.--Coop3 talk to me 19:19, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

The Woman IS The Doctor's mother!
The Woman was created to be the doctors mother and the evidence seen proves it. Its not romana or susan or anyone else, it is THE DOCTORS MOTHER. And she is a time lord, not human as the penelope gate stuff is not canon and wouldnt even exist if it wasnt for the doctors slip of the tongue fib about being half human. Thats the end of the argument.--Coop3 talk to me 19:18, July 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, the end is this: It's not his mother. Penelope Grate is. The end. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 21:10, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Grate? As in, "doesn't it grate that the answers to these questions are so indeterminate and uncertain?"


 * The Doctor's parentage is just as contradictory and impossible to reconcile as UNIT dating. The intention of Kate Orman and some of the other NA/EDA writers was that Penelope Gate was the Doctor's (human) mother. The intention of Russell T Davies was that the Woman was the Doctor's (Time Lord) mother. But neither intention was ever made explicit in any valid source, so we're left to choose for ourselves. Actually, Orman gives us a way to reconcile the two in Unnatural History: the Doctor has multiple, contradictory pasts. So perhaps when he looks this way, he's half-human, and his mother is Penelope Gate, but when he looks this way, he's all Gallifreyan, and his mother is the Woman. :) —Josiah Rowe talk to me 02:53, July 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Or...not.
 * Nothing within the episode, within the narrative outright states that she's the Doctor's mother. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:40, July 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Right. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. —Josiah Rowe talk to me 01:02, July 11, 2012 (UTC)