Talk:Hell Bent (TV story)

Question
Someone better versed into Doctor Who History might want to verify this, but is it the first time the Doctor kills someone with a weapon? I don't recall either 9, 10, 11 of War Doctor ever do this...TzarBorisII ☎  03:30, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, considering that there are eight other Doctors, plus when you take comics, audio, and prose into account, there have probably been several instances. It also depends on how you define weapons. As one of many examples, the Second Doctor plants the Dominators' bomb-like device on their ship and it explodes, killing them. Shambala108 ☎  03:38, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. But still, it was strange to see the Doctor actually shoot someone with a gun. TzarBorisII ☎  05:58, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * On screen, but remember he was the War Doctor. So this is not necessarily unusual. He also points out that he saw this more as disabling than killing. Had the Time Lord indicated he was on his final life, the Doctor might not have fired. 68.146.52.234talk to me 16:39, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

If you want an example of him gunning folk down, there's Attack of the Cybermen.-- 13:05, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * And just to be 'that guy', he didn't actually kill him as he asked the general about his regeneration number, and got the answer "tenth". He knew the general would regenerate. He probably wouldn't have done it if he was on his last incarnation. --DCLM ☎  16:45, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Didn't the Fourth Doctor snap someone's neck? Also the Third? The Invasion Has Begun  ☎  23:40, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

In The Two Doctors the Sixth Doctor kills someone by placing a chloroform soaked hankerchief to his face. I found that disturbing. Still, it was the Sixth. Put it in the context of the Doctor's wanting to save Clara, even at the risk of the entire universe. He went too far, as he acknowledged. --Exterminateallhumans ☎  01:52, December 14, 2015 (UTC)

Time and space query
I have a few comprehension questions: Did the 4.5 billion years just passed inside the confession dial? Because otherwise it's difficult to align this timeline with Gallifreys position in time. Or is Gallifrey time frozen at the End of the Universe? Or is "end of the universe" in this case to be understood spatial rather than chronological? How did it get there? I think the last question wasn`t answered in the episode. --Neshen ☎  13:01, December 6, 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that they are at the end of the universe if it is only 4.5 billion years as the end of the universe is the year 100 trillion as shown in Series 3's "Utopia" episode. It therefore must have only been 4.5 billion years in the dial. That or Moffat disregarded plot continuity. Snivystorm ☎  14:04, December 6, 2015 (UTC)
 * If that's the case (the years only passed in the dial) this would mean we have to remove the "the far future" link in the infobox. --DCLM ☎  16:38, December 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * My understanding was that the Doctor experienced 4½ billion years inside the confession dial, and then emerged onto Gallifrey which had been moved through time to the end of the Universe (didn't somebody actually mention this as a safety precaution?), so in a way the answer is "yes, both" ;-) —Phil | Talk 17:25, December 7, 2015 (UTC)

Memory Wipe
The memory wipe scene is clearly a reference to the Christmas crackers in both Time of the Doctor and Last Christmas, isn't it?

Spacecraft name? and article?
I cannot find any name or reference for those amazing looking space craft the timelords sent after the Doctor, however they should defiantly be included as an article

Ashildr's nose piercing
I took the Story Note out about Ashildr's nose piercing and moved it to the article on Face the Raven because it's actually visible in that episode. 68.146.52.234talk to me 16:18, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Buckaroo Banzai
The yellow road sign outside the diner in the beginning reads "Jackson" with the motto, "No matter where you go, there you are." That's a quotation from the movie Buckaroo Banzai, a 1980's film about a doctor/rock star. As far as I know, there is no town of Jackson, Nevada; the sign further indicates that the state-wide speed limit is 55, which must be left over from the period after the Carter-era oil crisis - undivided rural roads today go from 55 to 70 in Nevada.71.231.63.232talk to me 03:00, December 7, 2015 (UTC)

Barn
Why are we to assume that the barn on Gallifrey is the same one from The Day of the Doctor? Yes, the exterior settings are very much alike, but the interior is completely different. --Punkers ☎  15:44, December 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * The interior could have easily been redesigned since then. Plus then ed from "Listen" is there. Is this not suited more for discontinuity sections? Snivystorm ☎  17:13, December 7, 2015 (UTC)


 * It's also explicitly named as such in the shooting script. Ben Paddon ☎  16:31, December 11, 2015 (UTC)

Top-heavy
A lot of the information in the introduction to this article would be best redistributed between the Story Notes and Continuity sections. Right now the article is exceptionally top-heavy. Ben Paddon ☎  16:33, December 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree. Something like: ...It was notable for the first return of Gallifrey and the Time Lords since The End of Time, the return of the sonic screwdriver, the first on-screen instance of a gender-changing regeneration and the peculiar revival of the dead Clara Oswald as a traveller in her own TARDIS. -HarveyWallbanger ☎  16:54, December 11, 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd say to add it then and remove it from the introduction. You could probably move everything up to the him "reaching his limit" paragraph either into the notes and plot therefore making it concise again. Snivystorm ☎  17:15, December 11, 2015 (UTC)

Punishment or Gift?
I find the supposition that the Doctor forgetting about Clara to be a punishment, I also argue that at no point is he really going beyond his own morals. To support this I have a few points though I do not remember which episodes they all come from so if those are in error then I'll correct as needed in that regard.

First: The Doctor planned the whole sequence out, He knew how he followed the same pattern over and over when given the clues the way he was as well as giving himself the right clues at the right time. This is likely where the idea to do this came from.

Second: The Doctor recognizes fixed points in time, I believe this is established while David Tennant was the Doctor. with this information the Doctor knew Clara had to die there, no ifs ands or buts. With this being true Clara's Doctor 102(right?) comes to mind about how there is always a loophole.

Third: Last season(series) or the one before the characters talked about how if someone was deleted from the timeline of the universe you could still 'know' them by the void that was left though I believe that specific case was about the Doctor being removed from the universe. With this information it is likely the Doctor felt that even if he was going to forget Clara(more on this later on) that he would be able to use the void to fill in enough blanks to be satisfied.

Fourth: This is where we get to this episode in specific. The first event that hints to the Doctor's plan in the episode is when he asks for a device(heck with the name) that is 'Human-compatible' not human specific, human compatible which means he knows it'll work on both time lord AND human.

Fifth: He had the ability to have his Tardis brought to Gallifrey, but he didn't, he had to have a plausible reason to steal a second Tardis otherwise Clara would see through his ruse.

Sixth: When Me knocks on the doors of the Tardis the Doctor leaves behind both the Sonic glasses and the device behind on propose, we'll note he didn't need the Sonic glasses to check the tattoo. He pulled them out so he had a reason to leave on the console otherwise it would be suspect which was very specifically put on camera and again he does it with the device, pulling out when he didn't need to as he knew he didn't have his sonics on him.

Seventh: He insures Clara stays inside, remember Clara still thinks of Me as Ashildr so when the Doctor Says Me Clara would be thinking one of the other versions of the Doctor. The reference I have for this is how the Doctor comments that Clara isn't surprised to see Ashildr. This is important because this is how the Doctor makes sure the Clara has enough time alone to think to spy on the Doctor thus to think she is getting the information about what the device is for ahead of when the Doctor wants her to know and to then use the sonics on the device to change what it does.

Eighth: The Doctor says that he doesnt think the device can do swapped to work on Time Lords. The Doctor is lying, he knows it can work that way because he asked for human compatible not human specific as well as we know from many other episodes that the Doctors and that that is Doctor 101, he lies.

Ninth: Clara is too much like the Doctor, this is noted in both Hell Bent and in Face the Raven. After having spent so much time in Heaven Sent following the clues in the same fashion over and over again he understands that if he lays things out correctly that Clara will follow the clues where they lead her as the Doctor wants her to.

Nine point five: Sort of a continuation of nine, the Doctor knows Clara's sense of adventure, he understands that given the chance she would explore the universe herself, and this is where the loophole comes in and why the doctor has had to in a subtle fashion in giving Clara the gifts he wishes to give and in giving forgiveness to Ashildr.

The Wrap up: Having explained the reasons behind my view, here is my view of how these events truly should be taken. The Doctor knows that Clara has to die there, that it is immutable, for the time being he focuses on getting out of the trap laid before him. Once he gets out and understands who put him there he starts putting together his plan to complete(there is a better word for this but I can't remember it) his Duty of Care to Clara. First he has to find away to get the Time Lords to rescue Clara, pausing her from one heartbeat to the next. This is important because the Doctor knows the Time lock can not be undone by travelling anywhere as otherwise the Raven would chase Clara down, as referenced in Face the Raven "There is no where in Time or Space that you could flee and escape the Raven"(Maybe this should become it's own point above). Having done this and given Clara the Gift of near immortality the next two things he needs to do is get Clara a Tradis of her own and to break her from his side. The first one he does by steal another Tardis which is why he didn't have his brought to Gallifrey as he could have done as the President of Gallifrey. And the Third one is why he asked for the device and did the actions in point 7 and 8. With these actions the Doctor gave Clara the gifts of near immortality and a Tardis as well as forgiveness to Ashildr both by giving her the chance to travel in a Tardis and entrusting Clara's care to her(again maybe should be it's own point, the Doctor could be sure that Ashildr would travel with Clara as Ashildr had expressed a want to travel with the Doctor before). The last bit of this is about how the Doctor isnt truly punished by the the loss of Clara's memories, as mentioned in point 3 it is possible to know someone very well by the void left behind, he would know her story and much of her personality by how the void left by her interacted with him and he would know her face by the waitress, the way the diner disappeared and by the painting on the Tardis, I for one would not bet against the Doctor in terms of being observant enough to see those things and piece together that that was Clara.

Sorry that is a bit of a wall of text and that I cant give a TL;DR but I lack a bit in the Elegance of words. Please let me know what you think of this theory.

Familiar Guise?
Is the set of Clara's TARDIS the same as the one for the diner in "The Impossible Astronaut"?80.195.150.198talk to me 00:11, January 20, 2016 (UTC)

Yep. KingOrokos ☎  00:21, January 20, 2016 (UTC)