Forum:Temporary forums/Updating the main page & theme

I'll leave User:Bongolium500 to get the ball rolling with the suggestions I believe he has been developing, but having reached the requisite support threshold, I thought it was about time we get this thread officially started. Our main page and theming still tie themselves to an era that is now over; furthermore their general aesthetics, which have long been somewhat unpopular with the community, were selected based on agreements with BBC America, who are no longer carrying Doctor Who in the first place.

For a long time, there were diplomatic reasons we were stuck with that gold-and-purple and that monomaniacally current-Chibnall-era-focused home page, but I think it is time to returned to our more holistic roots. We used to look like this, foregrounding the transmats" which act as starting points for readers to dig into our wide catalogue of pages; on the current iteration, they have been pushed so far down that I had to go back and check they were even there as I prepared to write this page. In this year of the 60th anniversary, I can find no better time, as Bongolium's proposal stated, not only to "bring it all up to date with the current era and branding" (though we absolutely must do that much), but also to highlight more of the vast history of the DWU, on either side of the fourth wall, than just the most recent season.

This page is both a formality demanded by policy for such a big change (hence why we couldn't do this sooner), but also a genuine place for you, the community, to voice your opinions, and make your suggestions, about what we could do with this. I linked the older version merely as an example; the goal is to move forward, not backward! Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 13:47, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if I'm contributing to this thread too soon, considering @Bongo hasn't voiced his proposal(s) yet, but I would like to share my attempts at changing the Main Page in my sandboxes; see /Sandbox Mainpage for my attempt at the Main Page, which while mostly contains now-outdated info, does have some good additions such as, an inter-Wiki template used by virtually all other BBC-related Wikis; and /Transmat:IW, an unfinished Iris Wildthyme (and Magrsverse content) , which could be adapted/or finished.  15:57, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I've particularly disliked the current theme since... well, since it was introduced, something that most people I've chatted about will probably now. Now, bringing back old faces seems to be trending right now and it is in this light that I propose we do exactly the same (but for far different reasons). Even though we're not a Doctor Who wiki only, we're still called Tardis Wiki, and the TARDIS is the most iconic thing from the franchise. Building our theme around it seems only natural then.


 * I found this archived version of our Eleventh Doctor page, which allows newer users to somewhat experience what the old themes looked liked (click the button to the right of "talk" to switch between light/dark themes). Obviously a lot of templates, .css and other details changed from then to now, both locally and globally - hell, we were tardis.wikia then, not tardis.fandom! - so we don't need to copy 1:1 what we used to have. But I still would appreciate leaning into that a fair bit, so I made this (very rough) mockup of what we could build towards. We can obviously incorporate other colors into the theme, to make it less monochromatic, but I'm quite fond of the blue/white duo we used to have. OncomingStorm12th ☎  16:57, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * PS: I know this my above comment isn't exactly about the main page, which is the topic of the thread, but there's no point in changing just the contents of the main page, given that the current theme is built upon the revamp made alongside BBC America. Just to be closer to the topic, I also had this mockup lying around of the main page, back then. OncomingStorm12th ☎  17:03, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I completely support changing the theme as well, it's been around five years since it was introduced, and not only have we had three new actors and a returning showrunner since then, five years is a third of this Wiki's lifetime. Contra the Marvel Database Wiki, which changes its theme everytime a new movie or television series comes out, which is every few months or so... we really ought to at least update the theme to reflect a current era or idea, even if it isn't for every new major release. 17:11, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I also support updating the Main Page. As a related note, that 2017 revision of it is comically broken for Kindle viewers and displays a massive image of the Eighth Doctor taking up a decent chunk of the screen, so reverting to that design is definitely a no-go. Pluto2 (talk) 18:35, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. As I said, I merely pointed to it as the relic of a completely different philosophy for what the page could look like, not as in itself an example to emulate; the main operational element is the Transmats being one of the first things in sight rather than banished to the bottom. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 18:37, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I wasn't originally going to propose that we discuss the theme on the temporary forums as I feel that its the sort of thing that benefits from continual feedback over a period of longer than 3 weeks. Moreover, I feel that the wiki could do with a general reorganisation of our CSS alongside any potential theme redesign that I don't have time for right now and that I didn't want to impinge on CzechOut or SOTO. However, I do like the theme proposed above and so, if we can come to an agreement on it in this thread, I don't see why it couldn't be implemented in the theme designer with any additional CSS tweaks being performed later as and when people have time for them. In general, with themes, I think it's important to stick to current branding. Looking at the logo that is now being used for new releases and on official social media accounts, it is primarily blue with accents of grey and some yellow/gold highlights. I'm not sure how well this grey accent would work on the wiki, but I think keeping the gold could work quite well. No matter what, I feel we should definetly switch to using the blue from this logo.


 * I agree that the transmats should be made more prominent. They also need some improvement on the CSS side of things as the boxes overlap quite heavily and also cut off in some places. They definetly need updating to include information from the last few years. Adding new transmats, while something I would very much like to see (Epsilon's Transmat:IW and Najawin's Transmat:FP are both great), is a little tricky. It involves editing File:TransmatButtons2018.png to add the new icon which requires someone to have some form of skill with image editing. Adding the links then requires editing an imagemap and that requires knowing the pixel positions of each icon. In summary, it can be done but it requires someone with some image editing know-how and some time.


 * And now for the actual main page itself. As we're currently in a bit of a gap between eras, I feel that it could be a good idea to focus on the non-TV side of Doctor Who until the next episode airs and kicks of the next era. In particular, I was thinking that we could have some form of module showcasing the latest releases, perhaps the most recent ten, across all of the series and spin-offs we cover. To aid in keeping this up to date, the template this is on could allow for autoconfirmed users to edit it. Another potential module in this vein could be a showcase of the most prominent characters in recent releases at the moment, possibly such as the Fourteenth Doctor (who's headlining the DWM comic strip), The Warrior (from recent Big Finish releases), the Torchwood crew (from Big Finish's ongoing range), the Fugitive Doctor and Taslo (from the most recent Titan Comics series), Eldrad (from the most recent Cutaway Comics release) and loads more from series and ranges that I don't know enough about. Again, this could be in an autoconfirmed user-editable template and could perhaps use slider gallerys (for an example of one of these, see the top of the Stranger Things Wiki's homepage). This could then easily be updated to include/focus on the main characters of the next run of television episodes.


 * Another thing that I'd like to do is place more of an emphasis on highlighting some of our best articles. A lot of wikis have a featured article system and, while that is something that's probably worth a thread of its own, I've always liked Wookieepedia's status article system which they showcase on their mainpage in their "Article Showcase" section. You'll also notice that this is a feature of the Stranger Things Wiki's homepage. Another thing I think could be cool is to highlight content from our date pages. I have some (very buggy - the left module seems to have completely stopped working and you may need to purge the page twice to make it show stuff for today's date) drafts for this here that could be expanded and improved upon.


 * Moreover, we are in the 60th Anniversary year so we could have some form of module highlighting key events, stories, characters and/or personel from over the last 6 decades. Another thing is that I think we should keep some form of Twitter feed but replace it with @bbcdoctorwho. We could also look at intergrating some other official social medias.


 * What are everyone's thoughts on these ideas? Bongo50   ☎  20:13, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Regarding the theme, I think it's kind of a necessity, even if it doesn't preclude a more thorough CSS overhaul at a later date. Looking at home-pages past and present, it's clear that these things have to be designed with the Wiki's colour scheme in mind — e.g. the silvery or golden transmat portals — and so, it seems to me, if we have a broad consensus to move away from the purple and gold in the near future, we had best know that before we start putting too much work in any home-page design too deeply rooted in the current theme!


 * I strongly second the idea of a "recent releases" module as a permanent fixture. The character highlight is a good idea too, and one which could more easily be replaced with something else of similar size and placement in a future do-over as needed. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 20:35, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Just as a first note, the version of the page Scrooge linked above is completely broken for me, there's a giant Paul McGann in the middle.

So I was going to propose this first thing if we got the full forums back, I think it's imperative that we update our main page. Why didn't I propose it on the temporary forums? I'm unconvinced that a project as big as this will get consensus or even should have consensus within three weeks. Doing this "while nobody is looking at us", so to speak, is the best option we have, pushing these changes through and hoping Disney doesn't care in some form or fashion, now that BBCA is unable to dictate what we can and can't do anymore. (Speaking of which, our first order of business should be to remove their twitter feed. Jesus.)

Transmats: I think I've come to disagree with the theory behind Transmat:IW and Transmat:FP, after creating the second. There's just too many spinoffs we could give transmats for and it seems unfair to give emphasis to these two. My current suggestion:


 * 1) Move SJA/Torchwood/K9/Class to a single transmat for the TV spinoffs created in the RtD/Moffat eras.
 * 2) Potentially just delete the location transmat.
 * 3) Create a transmat for the EDAs/VNAs/PDAs/NSAs. (Willing to be convinced quite easily that the NSAs don't belong here. I'm iffy on that.)
 * 4) Create a transmat for Big Finish. We can add BBC Sounds to it if they keep working on stuff, as well as other audio drama companies that might spring up.
 * 5) Create a transmat for DWM/Titan comics (+Cutaway?)
 * 6) Create a transmat for Obverse/Candy Jar/Arcbeatle, including Iris, FP, Cwej, UNIT, and the Black Archive line.
 * 7) Construct our graphic such that we can easily slot in another transmat for spinoffs in the RtD2 era.

It's a big janky, but I think it minimizes transmats while pays due to most of the established spinoffs. My major worry is that Arcbeatle is less established than Obverse, so there's always some worry with that. But if we spin things off to specific transmat pages, we can edit the pages without going through the rigamarole of editing the full main page + graphic.

I endorse at least an exploration of changing the theme, I'd like to consider one based on the new color scheme as well as our old one. I'm also in favor of "recent releases" and "highlighted character". I also note that I was thinking about us working together to write a cliff notes version of DW's history in preparation for the 60th that we could host on the site. Sort of a mix between describing what was happening in the show and the production issues (more like, these actors left the show, these writers joined, these writers were committed buddhists and that showed in their work, or what have you, etc, not backstage gossip - the well established facts that had demonstrable impact on the show). Since the 60th will be distributed on Disney+, there's going to be a decent amount of eyes on it that haven't looked at it before, so having a "quick start" guide to catch people up to speed to where the show's at in the 60th would be incredibly helpful. As well as helping out all the returning viewers who left during the Smith, Capaldi, or Whittaker eras. Najawin ☎  22:11, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm more optimistic than you about getting somewhere within the three weeks, but for something as unique and as important as this, I think we could see our ways to special dispensations regarding the three-week deadline. As you say - we need to do this. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 22:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Najawin's idea of having a "quick start" guide is one I really like and has reminded me of an idea I've been playing with that's almost certainly a topic for its own thread but that I'm going to mention here while I remember: a new namespace, kind of similar to the theory namespace, for guides. Examples could include Guide:Getting started with Doctor Who (which goes over good introductory episodes and series), Guide:Introduction to Big Finish (which goes over the concept of an audio drama and provides recomendations for each Doctor and other prominent characters) or Guide:Faction Paradox (which goes over what Faction Paradox is, good first stories and the prerequisites for each story). They would be more opinionated than the rest of the wikibut I feel could be a valuable resource. On a more on-topic note, I like Najawin's proposed transmats. They feel a lot more maintable and future-proof than what we currently have. Additionally, I'm going to create some drafts for some of the proposed modules over the next few days. If anyone else wants to try putting some stuff together, feel free! Note that the tags used to create the columns on the main page do work on other pages, including user sandboxes. Bongo50   ☎  22:41, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I agree that the transmats should be prominent, but I'm not so sure about a "most recent releases" thing. I think it may be more practical to have a link to the latest year of releases, that way it won't matter so much if whoever is in charge of editing the main page is late in updating or misses a release or something like that.


 * Other changes I propose are getting rid of the BBC America Twitter thread, adding labels to the transmats, and adding a more obvious link to our policies for newer users.LauraBatham ☎  22:44, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The thing with just having a link to 2023 (releases) is that that is not as visual or immediately obvious to a new reader. As, ideally, all autoconfirmed editors would be able to update it, I don't forsee it becoming too outdated too easily. I already follow new releases pretty closely and would be happy to spend a few minutes every so often updating the module. However, another option could be to automate the module by grabbing information from 2023 (releases) and formatting it in a nice way for the main page. I don't like this as much as it gives less control over how the information is presented, but it is a possibility.


 * There could still be a picture accommodating it to make it more visual and a "New Releases" heading to make it obvious. However, if the main page will be able to be updated by more than just a few people, I agree that it becoming outdated would be less of an issue. LauraBatham ☎  23:11, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I think the idea is that the main page is still only updatable by admins, but there's a template or module it grabs, and this module/template has some portion that is editable by others. (Or interacts with a text field that's editable by others.) Najawin ☎  23:48, 7 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's correct. Currently, if you look at the source for the homepage, there is no actual content on it: it's all just templates. The idea is to still do that, but keep some of the templates unlocked. Sorry about that unsigned message. Bongo50   ☎  00:40, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I completely support this proposal. We are way too outdated as wikis goes. The wiki needs to look alive by the visuals of the main page and theme alone. Danniesen ☎  01:07, 8 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I proposed a thread on the subject of quickstart guides / recaps of series so you can get caught up easily. It's not explicitly relevant to this subject and is easy to get bogged down in, (It's a large project after all) so I'm suggesting spinning it off. Najawin ☎  06:10, 8 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm going to go ahead and replace to BBC Amercia Twitter feed with one for the official Doctor Who account as this is very easy and uncontroversial.


 * Regarding the theme, I feel that it would be most helpful to actually make some changes, see what we all think of them and then go from there. Therefore, as it has appeared to be quite popular, I'm going to alter the theme to reintroduce some of the colours from our old "TARDIS Blue" scheme. This can, of course, be very easily reverted, updated and changed further, so please leave your thoughts and suggestions here. I'm going to be announcing this change in a site notice for both logged in and logged out users, linking here, as I feel that it is especially important to get direct feedback from our readers and the wider community. If the change proves popular, we can work on refining it further and fixing any smaller CSS issues over the next few weeks and months. Bongo50   ☎  17:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)


 * For my two pence worth, I could get used to this. Haven't read this whole thread, but it would be cool if we could not only have blue to represent Fourteen's jacket, but maybe something to represent the colour of the his brown waistcoast? Is that possible, to have a splash of both colours? I don't like change but I'm sure I'll get used to this hehe. The  Farty  Doctor   Talk  18:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)


 * From @Ducky Whovian on Twitter: "If I had to constructively criticise, I think a slightly darker shade of blue would reflect the 'forbidden knowledge' feeling of doing canon deep-dives on your site a tad better, but I do like this blueness a lot."
 * How would a darker shade look? While I do like the most recent shade, a darker blue would look perhaps a little better for the dark mode, and might have a thematic connection to the Wiki's coverage of the obscure and the strange. 19:24, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't know about that, it seems like a niche bit of reasoning, even if one I might be broadly sympathetic to. I still think we should consider basing it off of the current branding, so going with a deeper (? less green?) shade of blue, perhaps. But as a place to start conversation this is good. It instantly calls attention to the fact that we're making change, so it's doing its job as a placeholder. Najawin ☎  19:36, 8 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Something that's worth mentioning: the current blue-ness of the theme is meant to draw directly from the official TARDIS-blue shade (with, possibly, some small diferente for better contrast with the text). Either way, I personally think that it is close enough to the new logo (which itself has dozens of shades spread throughout it, due to the shadows and the glowing yellow).
 * That's not to say we couldn't tweak it, if enough people want that, but I think it really works well as it is. OncomingStorm12th ☎  20:12, 8 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Not sure how I feel about the blue-on-blue as it is, with having the actual background lighter than the article's background. Just from having a quick play myself I think a darker blue background helps, or a dark gray like the new logo's outlines. Or, and this might be a bit controversial, not having a separate background at all and setting it the same colour as the article body's blue also works well, especially if you put it into wide mode on desktop. Just my 2c! guyus24 (talk) 23:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)