User:SOTO/Forum Archive/Inclusion debates/@comment-5253713-20150518174430

User:SOTO/Forum Archive/Inclusion debates/@comment-5253713-20150518174430 I posted this on Tardis:Valid sources, but was told to repost it here:

Rule 2 states in big bold letters : A story that isn't commercially licensed by all of the relevant copyright holders doesn't count..

of note, there are certain stories, like the 'Professor and Ace' stories like "Republica" using characters/concepts from DW that are clearly not valid sources for obvious reasons. Many stories were written as sequels to officially licensed stories by the same authors that wrote the original licensed stories, but do not count as they use DW elements/characters without proper licensing, eg. "Time's Champion" as a sequel to The Quantum Archangel (novel). Then there are stories where some characters are officially licensed DW characters, while others clearly are not. Over on the Faction Paradox Wiki the Main Page states:

"The trickiest thing to understand about the series, is that even though it's a spin off of Doctor Who it is not a part of the DWU. Creator Lawrence Miles had no access to concepts like "the Doctor", "the Master", "the TARDIS", "the Time Lords" — any of the things that make Doctor Who what it is. So you won't find direct mentions of these people and concepts."

Back to this page, and it clearly and unambiguously states:

"A rose by any other name is not as sweet. If the story consistently uses alternate names for DWU characters, places and situations, it's probably not allowed. The big exception to this is the story that contains analogous elements. As a general rule, if something is an approximation of something else in the DWU, then we don't fool with it. The classic example is the independently-published Faction Paradox stories that are not a part of the BBC Books range. Because writer Lawrence Miles does not have a license to DWU elements other than the Faction Paradox organisation itself, he must resort to using "code names" for Gallifrey, the Doctor, TARDISes, the Master and any number of the basic building blocks of the universe."

All of which brings us back to the Bernice Summerfield novels, audios and short stories. Bernice Summerfield of course first appeared in the officially licensed novel Love and War (novel). She then remained for most of the New Adventures. So far, so good. However, after Virgin's licence expired, they decided to carry on using Bernice as the main character(as they were legally entitled to do). However, they no longer had the rights to concepts like Time Lords, TARDISes, the Doctor etc.

Yet, the post-The Dying Days (novel) novels feature what are unambiguously Time Lords. The Big Finish Productions Bernice audios and books exist in a totally separate licence to their Doctor Who Audio ranges. The bernice stories were not legally allowed to use the Doctor, Time Lords, TARDISes etc. Thus, it must be asked exactly who are Irving Braxiatel's people who keep getting mentioned, and are influenetial in numerous stories? What exactly is that "time space machine" that Braxatiel travels in? When Bernice meets Iris Wildthyme and they both mention that they have travelled with the same time-traveller, who was it? It can't be the Doctor, can it, because the Bernice audios couldn't legally use or mention him.

And who are those creatures from Mars in the Benny novels and audios? The way they are described, the way they behave, even what they sound like on the audios, one could be forgiven for thinking they are Ice Warriors. Yet, the Bernice stories never acquired the legal rights for the Ice Warriors. Note how in the officially licensed audio Red Dawn (audio story), the term "ice Warriors" can and is used frequently.

So, what disqualifies Faction Paradox? It's a story that while some aspects are legally owned(eg. The Faction, Compassion, Chris Cwej, Sontarans etc.), when it comes to "the building blocks of the DWU", FP had to use the same "code words" or "euphemisms" for the Doctor, the Time Lords TARDISes etc.

Which is EXACTLY the same as the Bernice Summerfield novels, short stories and audios(certainly the early ones). Characters like Bernice Summerfield and Chris Cwej could be used. Meanwhile Irving Braxiatel was clearly a Time Lord who travelled in a TARDIS, yet they were never legally allowed to SAY "Time Lord" or "TARDIS". Benny mentioned her friend a lot, who we all know who he is, however they could never legally call him "The Doctor". Iris Wildthyme shows up, and SHE can't say "Doctor" or "Time Lord" or even tell us what her bus is! There are characters that are clearly supposed to be Ice Warriors but nobody, not even the characters themselves(!), are legally allowed to call them "Ice Warriors".

In this article's own words:

1)A story that isn't commercially licensed by all of the relevant copyright holders doesn't count.

2)A rose by any other name is not as sweet. If the story consistently uses alternate names for DWU characters, places and situations, it's probably not allowed.

And we can change a few names in the reason Miles' FP isn't part of the DWU and get:

Because writer Paul Cornell does not have a license to DWU elements other than the Bernice Summerfield character herself, he must resort to using "code names" for Gallifrey, the Doctor, TARDISes, the Master and any number of the basic building blocks of the universe.