User:Najawin/Sandbox 7

Trying to do a bit of a historical dive into forums/talk pages and flesh out what is important and for why. Might be subjective, but hopefully I can figure out what might give some insight into what other people care about. GAAAAHHH people didn't archive talk pages in the early days. They just deleted them. Makes things hard to find.

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Reference_desk_archives

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Tech_notes_archives?t=20201127150922

Threads, 2006 and prior
<!--A lot of these are completely inapplicable to the modern wiki, as Czech's archive notes say when you look at the threads. A few things that are still somewhat relevant are:

Forum:Wikipedia Infobox link - Which seems to be the basis for the idea that we should avoid placing links in infoboxes and instead place them at the bottom of the page. (Even if we tend not to place links to wiki for episodes these days.)

Forum:Let's Get Organised - is a really interesting thread, being one of the first. Establishes T:NPOV, explicitly rejects the idea of canon, and discusses things like Tardis:To do list. Not everything in here has had lasting support, as Czech notes in his archivist comment, but I think even the proposals that "failed" are ones we should revisit from time to time. Certainly notable, even if we ignore that it started the forum system.

Forum:Origins of the format for television story entries - As discussed by Czech in his archivist note, this is an important historical thread for looking at how our story pages developed. It's useful to look at if you want to know why things grew to be the way they are, or perhaps argue that we should make changes. But things have changed since then.

Forum:Protect story pages? - Didn't really get a ton of discussion, but there seems to be a decision not to protect pages, even semi-important ones, unless active vandalism occurs.

Forum:Influences Section on Story Pages - RIP, removal of literary analysis of stories unless specifically stated by people in production.

Forum:Archives of the original Panopticon - We see some of the basics of the POV, Manual of Style, canon policy, as well as naming policy.

Forum:The original Panopticon - Discussion of formats for both book articles, as well as character articles, the start of our categorization system, and naming policy.

Forum:The original inclusion debates - What a mess. So the original idea seems to be to segregate sources that are likely to contradict others away from the rest, with differing opinions as to how viable this is. Ultimately the segregation option doesn't seem to have gone through, based on the above decision to implement T:NPOV. But for all the bringing up of specific items, there's not a lot of discussion or clear decisions about them. It does seem to be the source of our merchandise rules though.
 * There is no context for the merchandise to have canon, they are an object rather than a 'work'. Everything that is considered canon has content that can give the text context within the wider DW Universe. You can read a novel, watch a TV show, listen to an audio drama. A piece of merchandise, or specifically a figure is an object from a text, its meaning is given definition from its source text

Other issues involve treating target novelizations as "secondary canon" and discussion of using novelizations for page names. It also contains the very fun quote:
 * I suppose, therfore, what I'm advocating is that television be allowed to dominate when there's a clash between an episode and an adventure in another medium. That seems to be what the BBC is actually saying their policy is, if not entirely publicly. I am quite certain that in the eyes of the copyright holder, the television episodes are top-tier continuity, while all the other stuff is roughly equal. It follows then that central facts about a televised subject — their name, their marital status, the time from whence they come, details about their regeneration or death — cannot solely come from another medium.-->

Threads, 2008
<!--Forum:The Master - Recently been overruled, but this is one of the early discussions concerning merging The Master into one page. Not the only, but the first.

Forum:Wanted pages with similar names - An early discussion that enforces T:NO RW as it applies to page names, though not in those terms.

Forum:How many Doctors? - notable disagreement over whether we can use reference/BTS sources on numbering Doctors prior to narrative confirmation in The Lodger.

Forum:Parallel timelines - Discussion of parallel universes/timelines, an area where (imo) the wiki still doesn't have clear policy.

Forum:Serious .... - Explicit statement in 2008 that it was still being considered that insofar as non narrative sources might not be canon it was because of the FASA roleplaying guides contradicting established sources. (Since been overturned in Tardis:Temporary forums/Archive/Non-narrative fiction and Rule 1)

Forum:Nominations for featured articles - related to potential discussions we're having, what sort of articles should be featured/on the front page / who should nominate them?

Forum:RE: A general chat! - "How do 'we' as a community get to know each others strengths and interests? Any ideas?" - Interesting perspective. Seems like we're more connected as a community now, even those of us who are uniquely on wiki. (With that said, the "only talk about Doctor Who and the wiki" rule makes it difficult to have conversations, though that thread was focused on editing as well.)

Forum:Battle of the Ood Sphere - Dramatically relevant to recent events, as of writing this. Not sure if this is overturned, Talk:Howling Halls/Archive 1 doesn't clearly do so. (See the date of the Archivist note as well as the date of the talk page discussion.) As of 2011 it was an unresolved issue if unnamed events that haven't been referenced as distinct things in other stories should have pages. Czech is against this because it's just rehashing the events of an episode.
 * I think a good rule of thumb is that you shouldn't create an article about an event unless that event is referred to by a specific name in another episode. It's all well and good to create a name for an event to keep an article in-universe. But when you actually create an article with an invented name, that's exceeding our mandate here.

However, there is dissent, Lord Xander thinks that all "major events" should be covered. The Archivist Note here points out that in effect the wiki has only decided to wikify battles and not major events, though there was no clear decision in this thread. Which leads to....

Forum:Skirmish at TARDIS Wiki - which seems to line up with Czech's summary of the situation while Archiving threads.

Forum:Need more info on Omega - Discussion on branching path stories being "semi canon" as the specific one is a game book.

Forum:Are deleted scenes canon? - Seems not. Though some think it depends on "why" they're deleted. There's some discussion of what second editions of books with new scenes entail, which is an interesting subject.

Forum:Canonicity of Dalek Annuals - Blame the mole will you? It's the mole's fault.

Forum:Canonicity of I Am the Doctor - uggggghhh, page for the book was deleted by Czech, I'm not confident he's right that consensus was clearly for deletion. Maybe we should bring it back, or at least discuss it. I'm probably pro delete, but also pro discuss.

Forum:Galleries on story pages debated - one of the places where the old policies against galleries was first discussed.

Forum:Story names (modified like this) - Some really strong statements from Czech on the wiki being tailored to the average fan when it comes to dab terms (or lack thereof) for tv episodes. Sounds almost like Nate's recent comments. :P

Forum:Why do prefixes link as they do? - Obviously one of the most foundational threads in the wiki's history even if we've moved past bits of it. Funnily enough I think this is where the insistence that John and Gillian having a single page came from.

Forum:Absent Admins - No decision made to trim admins who don't contribute. (Though I know that later on this decision was, at least in one particular discrete instance, overturned for one mass removal.)

Forum:IRC channel - rip chat.

Forum:2008 main page redesign - some old ideas from an earlier redesign that we might want to dust off at some point.

Forum:Plagiarism case that lead directly to Tardis:Plagiarism - self explanatory.

Forum:Images Policy - recently overruled, but it discusses colorization, #of pictures / text, and galleries.

Forum:Response to user introducing info from charity publications into in-universe articles - Why is this labeled a policy changer? It's just a complaint.-->

Talk pages, 2008
Talk:Owen Harper/Archive 1 - Fun fun, old discussion where there's a suggestion that for more, uh, gauche body parts and bodily functions, we can just refer to it on the human anatomy page or something.

Talk:Something Borrowed (TV story) - Disgusting support of theological ignorance. Truly disgusting that the wiki would support such a thing.

User talk:Stardizzy2 - Some interesting, if not entirely 100% accurate, I feel, discussion of Time's Champion and I Am the Doctor.

Talk: I Am the Doctor: The Unauthorised Diaries of a Timelord - I honestly don't know enough about this to comment, but as stated above, it's unclear to me that it was clearly in favor of deletion.

Talk: The Doctor and the Enterprise/Archive 1 - This is a fascinating discussion, both in terms of the actual page and what's being discussed, but as a window into early policies. (Charity publications used to be covered! There was a reasonable segment who thought anything notable for Doctor Who as a cultural phenomena, licensed or not, should be on this wiki!)

Talk: Doctor Who fan music - On the other hand, there's some notable dislike towards allowing fan work on the wiki.

Talk: Doctor Who (TV story)/Archive 1 - Discussion of naming of the TV movie page.

Talk:Companion/Archive 1 - Notes about editorializing + can we demarcate companion vs non companion.

Talk:Music of the Spheres (TV story)/Archive 1 - !!!!!!! Discussion of metafiction, fourth wall breaks and Attack of the Graske. Oh my!

Talk:Doctor Who Magazine graphic novels - I'm sure this is interesting in some way. Didn't have clear resolution, was based off of Howe's Transcendental Toybox.

User talk:Ghelæ - No real discussion, but some of Czech's early thoughts on using websites as sources, such as the UNIT site and Martha's myspace.

User talk:23skidoo - And immediately below. Nothing super important, just a look into how the various page layouts evolved and how people viewed the sections we have to this day at the time in question.

Talk:Kelsey Hooper - Old comment about what our policy should be for comments about real world people. No longer followed, though it never really generated discussion, it was just a user's (later an admin) view.

Talk:Journey's End (TV story)/Archive 1 - some discussion of the episode in other countries + languages.

Talk:Interplanetary Mining Corporation - Weird page to have this discussion, but there it is, discussion of T:NPOV.
 * ...This would be all much clearer if the article just shifted the stuff in the books to a section of its own. Not "Behind the Scenes", but "Other accounts" of "In other Media" or somesuch. There's nothing which offends the MOS or the BBC stance on canon to give primacy to televised adventures...
 * I don't see why the spin-off media shouldn't be used in the way it's intended to. It was made to fill out the Doctor Who universe, make connections between references, explain little mentions. Why is this supposed to be a problem?...
 * Again, I'm not saying we should ignore spin-off material. I'm not saying it shouldn't be in the article. I'm just looking for a way to include it in such a way that it's absolutely clear that it comes from a source other than TV. I'm arguing, I suppose, that TV material on a subject should get pride of place...
 * ...We are not going to be separating all the articles into 'TV' and then 'Other media'...

Talk:Doctor Who Club of Australia - Huh. Discussion of fan content on the site, specifically fan websites and fan clubs, and a claim that "it was decided we wouldn't have [every fan site noted] as it'd just be endless". This isn't on any talk page or forum post I found. If it was decided, that talk page was deleted. Maybe it was Talk:DWIN? But that's not exactly what happened there.

Talk pages, 2011
Talk:Dalek history - some early discussion of the possibility of an Essay namespace or suchlike. Interesting discussion of an analysis that doesn't really translate, I think, to a timeline quite right. But it's the genesis of timeline pages, even if they're not 1-1.

User talk pages to explore:
User talk:CzechOut User talk:Tangerineduel User talk:Azes13 User talk:23skidoo User talk:Josiah Rowe-not until 2011 User talk:Ghelæ User talk:The Librarian User talk:Skittles the hog User talk:Jack's the man User talk:Dark Lord Xander User talk:Stardizzy2 User talk:The evil dude User talk:Mini-mitch User talk:Trak Nar User talk:Delton Menace User talk:Rob T Firefly User talk:Nyktimos

For sorting later:
2010 https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Blood_of_the_Cybermen_-_how_to_define_them https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Categories_-_More_than_3_articles https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Cybermen_articles https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Cybus_Cybermen https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Dead_and_Buried https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:First_and_last_words_in_Regeneration_article https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Is_capitalisation_enough_to_distinguish_two_articles%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Is_in-character_linking_narration_canonical%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Is_there_something_wrong_with_the_howling%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Layout https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Phoenix_short_story_cover_query https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Pre-Airing_episode_articles https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Premature_character_page_creation https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Premature_page_creation https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Premature_page_creation_(comics_and_audios) https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Premature_page_policies_-_again https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Production_Blocks https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Screenshots_from_the_game https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Short_Trips_prose_v._Short_Trips_audio https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Short_Trips_volume_layout https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Should_the_TARDIS_article_be_split_up%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Species_pages https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Spoilers_on_upcoming_audios https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Template_placement https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:The_Adventure_Games https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:The_War_King_incarnation_of_the_Master https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:These_title_card_articles https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:These_title_card_articles https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Thumbnails https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:We_need_a_policy_on_videogames https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Who_counts_as_a_companion%3F

2011 https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:2entertain_Shada https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:A_Spoiler_tag https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:A_few_changes%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Alienation_of_new_and_IP_users https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Aliens_and_enemies_templates:_the_final_battle https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:ALL_EDITORS:_please_install_this_in_your_personal_settings https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Appearances https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:CIA:_Who_gets_the_redirect%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Background https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Character_Pages https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Character_information_on_novels,_etc https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Charity_anthology_short_stories https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Clarification_on_what_a_pseudo-historical_is. https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Could_we_create_article_for_each_Cybermen_Mark/Model%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Disambiguating_the_two_Doctor_Who_Insiders https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Doctor_Who_Magazine_page_update https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Free_image_categories https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Gallifreyan_history_and_History_of_the_Daleks%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Home_Era https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Home_Era_layout https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Interwiki_Requests https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Magazine_Reference https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Miracle_Day_and_template:wales_crew https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Moving_a_page_for_disambiguation https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:NO_SPOILERS_at_the_Panopticon https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:New_Torchwood_Team https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:New_flip_books_by_BBC_Childrens_Books https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Next_Time_trailer https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:No_colourised_pics,_but_what_about_comics%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Overhaul_of_featured_article_nominations https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Quotes_at_top_of_pages https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Quotes_or_transcripts https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:References_and_continuity:_what_exactly_is_the_difference%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Series_5_DVD_%27Inside_the_TARDIS%27 https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Series_6_spring_finale https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Should_all_multiple_listings_in_infoboxes_be_bullet_pointed%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Should_novels_%26_audio_stories_have_a_plot_description%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Should_we_class_Big_Finish%27s_Doctor_Who_Unbound_series_as_non-canon%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Should_we_establish_a_%22Cyberman_(Pete%27s_World)%22_enemies_category%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Son_of_Using_Full_Names https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Story_pages_should_have_reception_sections https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Tags_on_talk_pages https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:The_Key_2_Time_in_titles https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:The_Unspecified_Cyberman_Debate https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:The_royal_%27We%27 https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Titles https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Triple_Miracle_Day_broadcast_dates:_Why%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Unknown_species https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Users_should_be_allowed_any_youtube_video_on_their_user_page https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Using_official_twitter_pages_as_a_source%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:What_do_we_call_the_post-Miracle_Day_Torchwood%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Why_we_sometimes_protect_article_creation:_the_curious_case_of_Dorium_Maldavar https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Years_-_Separate_pages_or_Century_pages

2012 https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:%22Companions_of_the_Nth_Doctor%22_Templates https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:%22Setting%22_in_story_infoboxes_and_UNIT_dating https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Audio_Visuals https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Any_way_the_Audios_can_be_updated_on_the_front_page https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Bug_in_the_Game_of_Rassilon https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Can_this_wikia_get_an_upgraded_theme%3F_The_current_one_is_beyond_ugly. https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Character_Profiles_on_K9_DVDs https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:DWM_issues:_please_help_(re)write_leads https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Disambiguation:_Omegas https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Distant_past/Far_future_categories https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Doctor_Who_and_the_Related_Videos_Spambot https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Doctor_Who_prefix_in_titles https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Doctor_Who_webcasts https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Foreshadowing_section_on_Doctors_pages https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Image_names https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Individual_ranked_Cybermen https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Layout_and_navigation_updates_October_3 https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Leela_Audio_Story_category https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Living_versions_of_paintings https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Meanwhile_in_the_TARDIS:_Differentiating_the_scenes https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:New_past_Doctor_stories:_PDA%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:One_of_the_only https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Overhaul_of_%27mini-episode%27_articles https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Page_images_for_DWBIT_comic_stories https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Prefix_simplification https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Reference_books_-_what_do_we_cover%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:References_to_BFDWU_as_alternate_or_diverging_timeline https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Removing_stubs https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Rumours_and_their_sources https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:SJA_and_companions_of_the_Doctor https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Should_Cyber-Leader,_Cyber-Controller_and_Cyber-Lieutenant_be_split%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Should_Doctor_Who_(1996)_be_Doctor_Who_(TV_story)%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Story_Numbering https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Text_not_showing_up_on_Laurence_Payne_page https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Thanks_for_using_British_spellings https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:The_Dalek_Conquests_prefix https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:The_Destroyers_and_other_Lost_Stories https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Two_questions_on_DWBIT_comics_pages https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Undated_and_unchronicled_events https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Wantedpages https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:What%27s_the_focus_on_the_Cyber-Controller_page%3F https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:What_%22voice_actor%22_means_on_this_wiki https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Where_do_all_TARDIS_Index_File_articles_lead_to%3F