User:SOTO/Forum Archive/Inclusion debates/@comment-1506468-20190827123101/@comment-1350697-20190828201621

To the best of my understanding of the four little rules and their intent, the stories that cross over pass all four easily:


 * 1) "Only stories count." It's not like they're recipes. Obvious pass.
 * 2) "A story that isn't commercially licensed by all of the relevant copyright holders doesn't count." Arcbeatle Press is a small press that clearly does business beyond exclusively self-publishing Mr Wylder's work, and I see no reason not to take Mr Wylder on his word that all elements that intersect with the DWU do so with the appropriate permissions of every copyright holder involved. Plans to sell the stories in some form indicate that these permissions cover the right to do so commercially. Any implication that Arcbeatle Press has not secured these permissions should come only with proof or evidence, and would otherwise venture into T:NPA areas, potentially into the range of slander or libel.
 * 3) "A story must be officially released to be valid." My understanding of Tardis:Official releases has always been that "official release" for our purposes really only refers to a policy of not covering stories before their official release date. So, yes, out and released, not an issue at all.
 * 4) "If a story was intended to be set outside the DWU, then it's probably not allowed. But a community discussion will likely be needed to make a final determination."
 * 5) From the introduction on the page for White Canvas: "this novella is a licensed crossover between the 10,000 Dawns, and characters from the universes of Doctor Who and Faction Paradox!"
 * 6) From the page for Rachel Survived: The title of the page and introduction explicitly refer to the story as "a 20th anniversary crossover," and to the titular character (and other elements) as "crossing over" from Head of State.
 * 7) From the page for The Gendar Conspiracy: The introduction again explicitly refers to the story as "a licensed crossover, pulling characters and settings from the universes of Doctor Who and Faction Paradox"
 * 8) Ergo, all three of the relevant stories have very clearly established that the authorial intent of them is to be crossovers between 10,000 Dawns and either or both of Doctor Who and Faction Paradox.

In addition, the BBC themselves have frequently made stories available exclusively as text on a web page or as PDFs -- The Lonely Computer, The Advent of Fear, Wish You Were Here etcetera -- so the idea that these forms of release are in some way inadequate is completely baseless, and irrelevant -- this wiki does not to the best of my knowledge have any policies whatsoever to this effect.

I could understand a hesitation to include these through the lens of a "slippery slope" argument -- if all fears to that effect were not completely baseless:
 * 1) Arcbeatle Press, though smaller, is clearly operating on a similar scale or level as Obverse, Telos, Candy Jar, whose published Doctor Who-adjacent works are today generally accepted here as valid without significant question. (Though I remember lengthy debates re: some of the further-removed-from-Doctor Who Obverse stuff.)
 * 2) Mr Wylder clearly travels in the same circles as, and has professional and/or personal relationships with, the authors from whom he has licensed characters and concepts. A random fanfiction author on the internet does not have these connections, and the odds that this wiki will ever have to deal with, like, buttenthusiast193's incoherent million-word licensed novel about Rachel Edwards' grandmother or Littlejohn's preschool days are pretty small.
 * 3) As has been pointed out above, the offer to loan out characters for crossover purposes is only extended to authors of work on the level of Candy Jar Books or Obverse, not to buttenthusiast193.
 * 4) Nobody is talking about including all of 10,000 Dawns as a valid work, though as a fictional universe that crosses over with the DWU, it's certainly reasonable to have a page about it.

TL;DR: If it's a yes or no you're looking for, mine is very much a yes.