Talk:Flesh and Stone (TV story)

Angels Moving
We see the Angels move very slightly when they grab the Doctor. One of the Angels readjust their grasp. It is obvious that this is meant to be obvious, and it is before the scene where they notice Amy isn't looking at them.

The Doctor's Jacket
I don't know if this is worthy of putting into the article or not, but in the ter, railer, it shows the doctor without his tweed jacket, then at the end, it shows him losing it. --Semian2 23:57, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

I noticed that this is down as a production error in the main page. If you watch closely, the Doctor loses his jacket before meeting up with the others and is then not seen with his jacket for the rest of the episode, apart from when he speaks to Amy. However, just before this his voice fades off as he moves away with River. It seems highly likely that this is a future Doctor who has crossed his own timestream (riskily!) and come to talk to Amy for a particular reason.Neil DG 22:54, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

It's too obvious to be a production error. Crazy as it sounds, your theory about a future Doctor is probably right. I don't think this should be listed as a production error. Watch the scene. Everything is different about the Doctor's demeanor when he comes back to talk to Amy. Even the way he kisses her on the forehead. It all fits. That Doctor has known her for a longer time - and has come to love her. (In a "friend" kind of way, I mean. This episode certainly shattered the idea of a Doctor/companion romance.) There must be something extremely significant in the Eleventh Hour... Bluebox444 23:49, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

The most obvious answer is usually the correct one. Either: 1 - its a glitch, and these things can happen easily, or 2 - he went to the TARDIS wardrobe and picked out another jacket. To assume that its a future Doctor just does not fit. Don't go putting in unsubstantiated rumors without some discussion here first.-Jedman67 04:30, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

(edit) whoops. I missed what you were trying to say. I just rewatched that bit, and while it only takes 5 seconds to push up your sleeves, with him wearing his jacket, it could be a clue. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a glitch, or it was supposed to be cut. Keep an eye out for news.Jedman67 05:07, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

It wasn't just the jacket. The Doctor's sleeves were rolled up as well, and with the change in demeanor, it can't just be an error. He ws even checking in the direction 'he' went. 71.7.130.217 04:53, May 2, 2010 (UTC)Mopps

Exactly! And the reason for telling Amy to remember what he told her when she was 7 was never explained in the episode. I know we can't be certain that this isn't a production error, but I do think that there's enough evidence to put some kind of note on the page saying that this scene may mean something important. It might have huge significance for the rest of the series. Bluebox444 11:04, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

That scene's been bugging me too like you say his demeanour, the jacket, the way it's directed, the remember bit and his glancing at presumably where he, river and octavian went really do suggest this isn't this episode's Doctor. If it really is nothing more than a simple error and he shouldn't have had the jacket then fine (all that debate about Rory's ID card and that turned out to be an error) but I'd like to hope there's something more going on here. Carnivius Prime 14:59, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Digital Spy spoilers
[]

I realize these don't always turn out to be correct, but at least they seem worth mentioning the the Rumors section. Well, some of them. I'll list them here:

1. Eureka! Galileo!

2. Amy: "Basically we've *** up the inside of a *******."

3. The Byzantium contains a forest. Yes, a forest.

4. Amy: "Seven."

5. There's a scene reminiscent of a scene from 'Doomsday'.

6. Amy: "Six."

7. What's the opposite of the moral from 'Blink'?

8. River has done something very, very naughty.

9. There's a very important date you'll want to mark in your diaries/iPhones/Google calendars come the end of this episode.

10. The crack. We finally learn what it is and what it wants.

11. Amy does something to The Doctor that prompts an epiphany. And a collection.

10 certainly seems important. #8 implies that we'll get on-screen confirmation of the River-murder-prison thing. #11 substantiates the rumors that the Amy-Doctor kiss from the series trailer will be in this episode (although the fact that Amy is wearing the right clothes already did that). Of the rest, everything seems either vague or unimportant (except for #4 and #6 as fuel for the speculative "countdown as a story arc" theory). --Falcotron 21:37, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

It can already be confirmed that 3 is correct, since we saw the images in the trailer for Flesh And Stone. Also, in 7, the moral from Blink was "Don't Blink" so the opposite is, obviously, "Don't open your eyes." And since in the trailer for this week, we've already heard the Doctor telling Amy not to open her eyes, this is obviously important. -- Musedae 19:24, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure these teasers are written by someone who has been shown the advance press screenings; so they're usually ALL correct. Only the The 'Time Of Angels hasn't been 100% correct, with a couple of misprints/misinterpretations, but generally they turn out to be right. All of these fit.86.138.134.150 16:04, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Amy
In one of the clips released today (before the episode), the Doctor is shown trying to get Amy to remember what he told her when she was 7, which apparently upsets the Doctor as she doesn't remember. That coupled with the fact that she doesn't remember the Daleks at all further suggests something has been tampering around with her head. Adam 148 07:37, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

It may be total left field, but the Doctor told Amy that she had a great name, a fairy tale name when they first met and was upset that she went from Amelia to Amy. River and the Doctor mentioned the Pandorica as a fairy tale, and "aren't we all". 71.7.130.217 05:18, May 2, 2010 (UTC)Mopps

Amy's sudden attraction to The Doctor
It was incredibly out of character for her. Any ideas?

Please sign your posts. And out of character? It's completely IN character. She's had four psychiatrists, bitten them, she's nuts, she took the risk of killing thousands of people on the starship UK and she's grown up in admiration of the Doctor. Plus he's saved her life. It's hardly sudden, she's had 14 years to fall for him. Mc hammark 20:09, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Hammark. This is entirely in character, though very unexpected. ~Fan555

I also agree with Hammark, Amy is CRAZY. Steven Moffat said it in an interview for DWM. - BillyWilliam3rd

Her expression when watching him dress in The Eleventh Hour suggested she was attracted to him too I think Carnivius Prime 20:28, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

I totally agree, Carnivius Prime. ~ BillyWilliam3rd

Though we all have to remember that there's something VERY strange going on with Amy Pond, aside from the fact that she's crazy. I think there might be two different time lines running almost in sync with one another. After all, things don't seem to be working the way that they should! Musedae 01:02, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I agree - that whole scene really threw me off, and I'm not inclined to think that Moffat would shift Amy's character so radically without a reason. And there did seem to be something about her behavior that made the Doctor realize something regarding the 6/26/2010 issue.

"Remember what I told you when you were seven..." Is there something in the Eleventh Hour that we're missing, that might provide a clue? Bluebox444 11:10, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe he is referring to when he told her that her name (Amelia Pond) is like a name from a fairy tale, which might imply something about her whole existence. Note that River did say at the end "arent we all" when the doctor said smthg about a fairy tale. Or maybe, he also said to her (when she was 7) that it is weird that her aunt left her home alone at night.. we never met that aunt.. maybe there's no aunt at all! I dont know what would be the explanation but there sure is some mystery surrounding amy's life..

The Doctor's Age
He's lying about it again. At the end of the episode he protests to Amy that he is 907 years old. Now, this doesn't correspond with End of Time where he claimed he was 906. And for the Doctor it can't have been more than, what, a week since his regeneration? Of course, he could have celebrated it in that week but there's been no mention of it thus far. Adam 148 20:18, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Somehow I doubt that the Doctor celebrates his birthday after 907 years. Mc hammark 20:22, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Could you even begin to imagine the wax required for birthday candles? Ghadius 20:27, May 1, 2010 (UTC)Ghadius

I didn't mean 'celebrate' as in 'throw a party', I meant, 'celebrate' as in, 'you're a year older now'. There was absolutely no mention of it until that point. Adam 148 20:31, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but we have to think wether a year works the same for the doctor, with all the wizzing around time and space. Also, at the age of 907, would he even acknowledge a birthday?Fan555 20:34, May 1, 2010 (UTC)Fan555


 * He was probably just rounding off or something. I mean, after 900-odd years, surely you can afford to change the date a little. Tardis1963 05:39, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

That's sorta like what I keep wondering regarding time travellers returned to their own time their ages are hard to figure out. Say you go time travelling on March 12th (random date), you spend a year of your life visting various parts of history and then you return right back or as close to the moment you left as possible. Then when it's your birthday are you the age of years since you were born to the year you are in now or your actual physical age which would be a number higher to count for the year of time travel? And the opposite being like the scene in The Beast Below where the computer says Amy is well over 1000 years old when really she's only about 21. I think age starts getting really messy for time travellers as a whole and especially for someone who's lived as long and time travelled so much as the Doctor. How would he keep count? I think I just go along whatever figure he says and try not to think about it else I get a headache Carnivius Prime 12:05, May 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well I think you have kind of "two ages". You have your official age that depends on you brithdate. This age will be mentioned in calculations which can't know how much time you've spend outside of your timeline. And you have you biological age that ist just about how long you have lived (in hours or minutes independet in which timeline you were. Just the Time you "feel" living, without the time you skipped. This problem was earlier discoverd with Rose who was a bit too long time travelling. I think the doctor count's his physical age, since he would have to state a different age each time he tells his own age.78.43.114.215 14:35, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Lunar Eclipse
Ok, looking up 26th June 2010, I've discovered that it's a partial lunar eclipse that day, and stonehenge is believed to be a lunar eclipse computer. Now where have I seen stonehenge before? Mc hammark 20:25, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

You are good. To good. Are you sure you are not working for Moffat, trying to throw us off the scent? ~Fan555

I WISH. Let's just say, I'm very good at research. Mc hammark 20:31, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

I hven't really thought bout it. But i have aways been intrested with Stonehenge and River Song in the Series 5 trailer ~ BillyWilliam3rd

Could Stonehenge be the Pandorica? River says the next time the Doctor sees her, the Pandorica will open, though I didn't notice River at the Stonehenge. Will watch the trailer again thoughFan555 20:38, May 1, 2010 (UTC)Fan555

Yeah, you can just see like the back of her head or something. Its hard to spot ~ BillyWilliam3rd

OMG, have we solved the Pandorica Mystery!? Fan555 20:41, May 1, 2010 (UTC) Fan555

I doubt it. Not really amazing research. The lunar eclipse is the first result if you just google "June 26, 2010".

Also, the lunar eclipse will be visible pretty much everywhere *except* Stonehenge: Asia/Australia at dusk, North/South America at dawn. --Phas

Still, there very well could be a connection to Stonehenge. It seems to be too big a coincidence to ignore.

By the way, I wonder if the fact that River will meet the Doctor "when the Pandorica opens" means that she's from our time...

Bluebox444 11:07, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I also find it interesting that she seems to know that the Pandorica is the *next* meeting for him. It seems like either of them knowing the exact order of future events for the other is rather unlikely, unless they start talking to each other much more openly sometime soon. --Phas

Double Doctor?
In the forest, as The Doctor, River and Father Octavion are heading to find the main flight deck, The Doctor cuffs her head and says "Amy, later!" He is wearing only his striped shirt and his suspenders on his upper body. But moments later, he returns, with his sleeves ROLLED UP (when did this happen?!) WEARING HIS JACKET. She doesn't remember what he told her when she was 7. He's visibly closer, and more afraid for her at this moment. He kisses her forehead. Next scene, he's not wearing his jacket, his sleeves are rolled down and he's far more aloof. This is way too obvious to be a production error. It's Doctor Who, guys. That's way too big. There's something we still don't know. Musedae 01:30, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Why have you posted here: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Flesh_and_Stone#The_Doctor.27s_Jacket.3D.3D and then posted this section? - Looq 03:00, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Because I wasn't sure if it had gone through, as my internet went all wobbly. I'll go edit it out in a moment. ALSO: that section is exclusively about the Doctor LOSING his jacket, where as this one focuses on how he seemingly didn't have a jacket, then appeared with one, and then appeared without one within a two minute frame. Musedae 02:08, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Clock problem
How do we know that it was a production error, and not something caused by the Time Shield? --trlkly 03:22, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if you're going to include the jacket thing, which has a very logical explanation (look at the The Eleventh Hour), then I think the clock should go back. Apparently it is policy to count it an error until it is officially explained. --trlkly 12:16, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Fairy Tale
Does anyone else find it interesting that when the Doctor tells River that the Pandorica is a fairy tale that River's response is "aren't we all". It brings to mind the several incidents when the Doctor has met some advance race and mention that he is a Time Lord that people have referred to them as a myth, a legend, or a fairy tale. This would seem to be another hint that River is more than just human and possibly a Time Lord herself. Of course, being Steven Moffat, every time I think that I can't help but wonder if I am just thinking what Moffat wants the viewer to think.Doorofnight 04:54, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Just throwing this out there but the Russel T. Davies series' ended with two female characters open ended: River Song, who we now know will be explained (at least in part) this series, and Jenny. Just wild speculation here but is it possible that Jenny and River Song are the same person? After all, Jenny can regenerate.Guitar Steve 12:35, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

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^Good grief, what iis that? -- Dragonfree  09:29, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Oh god, I'm not the only one with that thing showing up. I've gotten into the habit of checking all my posts. I think it might be something to do with firefox, because it never shows up when I use internet explorer. Shall I leave it up so people know what we're talking about, or shall I get rid of it? Musedae 16:16, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Now that is interesting. I remember reading somewhere that Jenny was originally going to die at the end of "The Doctor's Daughter", but it was Steven Moffat who wanted to keep her alive. Coincidence? - Anon 14:01, May 2, 2010

Duck Pond
The Doctor references the duck pond without any ducks in The Eleventh Hour as something connected to the cracks and their nature of unwriting/rewriting time. Is this significant enough to go under the references section? 92.4.29.75 13:24, May 2, 2010 (UTC)