Forum:Cybermen articles

Given how both kinds of Cybermen can now be seen just as notable, and given how in the future it might be increasingly hard to determine whether a given group of Cybermen is of Mondasian or Cybus origin, or even a merger between the two (as in Blood of the Cybermen), how about making the main Cyberman article an overview page about all kinds of cybermen, their differences and similarities, while having the current article as a more specific article at Cyberman (Mondas) or something like that? I'm not suggesting a full merge - the details would still be in separate articles. For example, the intro could be something like this:


 * "Cybermen are a type of cybernetically augmented near-Humans and Humans. They have varied greatly in design, with different offshoots factions throughout time and space. However, the two major groups, from which all other known versions are derived, are the Mondasian Cybermen, which originated on the planet Mondas, Earth's twin planet in the Doctor's universe, and the Cybus Cybermen, which originated on Earth in an alternate universe.


 * Despite the different origin and other differences, there is a number of similarities between both groups of Cybermen. For the most part, they have both lacked individuality or names. Cybermen no longer possessed emotions and viewed them as a weakness. They have frequently attempted to physically and mentally re-engineer humans and other humanoids into Cybermen, via a process called "cyber-conversion" or "upgrade"."

What do you think? I'd go ahead and do it, but since it's a major change, I figured it's best to ask first. Ausir(talk) 23:10, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I started working on it here. Any feedback is welcome. Ausir(talk) 01:24, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is a good idea. I just don't. TemporalSpleen 07:19, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Any particular reason for it? Given the similarities, and particularly given Blood of the Cybermen, I don't really see a reason to treat both kinds of Cybermen as separately as they are treated now (although they should still keep the separate, more detailed articles). Ausir(talk) 09:46, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Searching Cybermen should lead to a disimbiguation page. A full page would just end up repeating information on the seperate articles.  TemporalSpleen 21:52, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Searching Cybermen should lead to a disimbiguation page. A full page would just end up repeating information on the seperate articles.  TemporalSpleen 21:52, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Searching Cybermen should lead to a disimbiguation page. A full page would just end up repeating information on the seperate articles.  TemporalSpleen 21:52, December 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * It doesn't lead to one now, it leads to the Mondas cybermen. If the wiki is written from an in-universe perspective, why should one group of Cybermen given precedence over the other? Ausir(talk) 23:54, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

The two types of Cybermen are completely different things with different origins. By some amazing coincidence they both have the same name, similar appearances, and similar motives, but the two are not related to each other. Since this wiki is from an in-universe point of view, we shouldn't act like they are related.Icecreamdif 22:39, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Blood of the Cybermen points to the possibility that the two groups might have merged. And even if they have different origins, I think there are also enough similarities to have an overview article. We have an article on cyborgs of various origins, I don't see why we couldn't have one on Cybermen, which are a particular type of cyborgs that shares some similarities regardless of origin. Ausir(talk) 23:54, December 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Possibility isn't fact.
 * Though we can certainly look at adding further information to the Cyberman (disambiguation). --Tangerineduel 12:41, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the disambig page should be the default, then, not the Mondasian Cybermen article. I think both kinds of Cybermen are equally notable by now. Ausir(talk) 18:08, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * This conversation kinda stopped, but I'd chip in that I completely agree with Ausir, at least insofar as the above comment is concerned. There's no logical reason why Cyberman should lead to the Mondasian Cyberman.  In order for the current structure to make sense under our disambiguation policy, you'd have to be able to make a convincing argument that the Mondasian Cybermen are the primary topic by that name.  And I don't think you can.  When someone who's primarily a new series fan thinks of Cybermen, they mean Pete's World Cybermen.  When someone schooled in the old series thinks Cybermen, they probably mean the old series Cyberman.  I don't think there's a clear winner, here.  Thus disambig policy would indicate that Cyberman does need to be a disambig page.  15:22:08 Fri 27 May 2011