Talk:Archibald Hamish Lethbridge-Stewart

Relation to the Lethbridge-Stewart family
The edits regarding Archibald Hamish being brother to Alistair Gordon's grandfather keep being undone. I haven't actually read the book in question but there seems to be pretty sound in-universe and out-of-universe sources that were provided. I was wondering if anyone could further elaborate on this? --Borisashton ☎  12:50, December 27, 2017 (UTC)


 * Please keep in mind that only in-universe sources can be used by T:IU. Amorkuz ☎  12:55, December 27, 2017 (UTC)
 * Archibald was named as brother of the Brig's grandfather in one of the books in-universe (and the tweet from Haisman estate merely confirmed that he's supposed to be the same Archibald as the one in the episode), and you also removed the behind the scenes section, which explains the issue out of universe while not claiming to be an IU explanation. What was the reason for that? 13:05, December 27, 2017 (UTC)


 * Oops, that edit clearly did not go as planned. Thanks for alerting me about the issue. Let me get to a computer and return everything back. Amorkuz ☎  13:26, December 27, 2017 (UTC)

Hamish?
Since I accidentally got muddled into this anyways, maybe I can do something good by starting an actual discussion of the issue at hand, instead of everyone going back and forth between edits. So the current situation seems to be, in simple terms (for simplicity I will use copyright holders instead of people to describe the situation): The current state of the page reflects the out-of-universe claim 4 but not the out-of-universe claim 1. The latter is how it should be, of course. Which brings me to a question: what is the in-universe evidence that the "Archibald Hamish" from BBC is the "Archibald" from Haisman/Lincoln. First and foremost, is the middle name "Hamish" present in any Lethbridge-Stewart stories? Amorkuz ☎  00:19, December 28, 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) BBC intended him to be a grandfather but never stated it in-universe, meaning it is not allowed on pages outside of BTS sections;
 * 2) Haisman/Lincoln Estate does not agree to him being a grandfather, pointing out that Alan Barnes already created one paternal grandfather in Doctor Who Magazine (see comic story The Warkeeper's Crown);
 * 3) Haisman/Lincoln have their own Lethbridge-Stewart character named "Archibald", who is a brother of the said paternal grandfather;
 * 4) Haisman/Lincoln claim that BBC used their particular Archibald.


 * The primary in-universe evidence: Both had the first name "Archibald" and the last name "Lethbridge-Stewart". Both were of the correct age to have been a father during WWI. And that's it ... but then again, that's practically all we know about either character. I think if there is actually an Archibald Lethbridge-Stewart mentioned in a Lethbridge-Stewart novel, it would be rather unreasonably reductive to insist that they're separate characters. Given the aforementioned in-universe evidence, I think it'd actually be more speculatory to say that the LS-series character didn't have the middle name Hamish ... next you'll be telling me Kate Lethbridge-Stewart isn't Kate Lethbridge-Stewart! – N8 ☎ 02:11, December 28, 2017 (UTC)


 * Not just the Brigadier himself but all Lethbridge-Stewart derivative characters are used by the BBC under license from Haisman/Lincoln. I would imagine that Moffat originally wrote the episode with the Brig's grandfather in mind, but Haisman/Lincoln, probably having some input as license holders, did not allow him to call the character the Brig's grandfather explicitly because the Brig's grandfather was already established differently in other stuff they officially license. If the copyright holders actually state that the two Archibalds are the same person, I see no reason to assume they aren't, as that's more than we got for Kate Stewart (we could just as well assume the Brig had two different daughters named Kate). JagoAndLitefoot ☎  02:36, December 28, 2017 (UTC)