Talk:Twelfth Doctor

Preparations
Does anyone else feel the Preparations section is a little too meta? Apparatjik ☎  04:18, July 9, 2015 (UTC)

I really feel like this section should go. King of Dunkshire ☎  20:55, October 22, 2015 (UTC)


 * I would say that all "foreshadowing" and "preparations" sections need to go. They're very out of place, and are closer to 'Legacy' sections then 'biography' sections. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 02:21, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

New Image
Just recently saw Kill The Moon, and I saw this particular image (on right). I've read the image policy and I'm pretty sure the image fits that.

And, to me, it looks like a better one! Anyone else got any thoughts? Guyus24 (talk) 09:42, September 8, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's kinda awkward.... OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 13:30, September 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * First of all, the cropping is exactly what we want for infoboxes. However, the image itself is a bit dark. Infobox images have to be visible by viewers using any kind of device, including small cell phone screens. Shambala108 ☎  14:37, September 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * I kinda like it. The darker image tone fits his darker demeanour.BananaClownMan ☎  14:42, September 8, 2015 (UTC)


 * Do you think playing with the contrast would fix it? I've got software that can do that. Guyus24 (talk) 07:13, September 9, 2015 (UTC)

How's this picture for an alternative? Taken from The Woman Who Lived. --TARDIS2468 ☎  23:15, October 25, 2015 (UTC)


 * That's too dark for an infobox image.  P&amp;P  talk   contribs  23:21, October 25, 2015 (UTC)




 * How about this one?BananaClownMan ☎  19:25, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * It certainly looks adequate but it's a tad wide and dark on one side. Perhaps if there was one in Under the Lake as that had quite a few bright areas? Snivystorm ☎  20:25, December 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * That last one isn't tightly cropped enough. See T:GTI. On the first proposed picture, I concur with Shambala—nice cropping according to T:GTI, but far too dark to be used. 21:26, December 19, 2015 (UTC)

Ghost
On the basis that the other people turned into ghosts in TV: Under the Lake says Human/Tivolian and Ghost I have put this on the Twelfth Doctor's infobox as well.--90.221.128.67talk to me 10:08, October 10, 2015 (UTC)

Hell Bent punch
Am I right in saying this is first time the Doctor has ever on screen assaulted anyone? I know the 9th Doctor certisnky got in to s few fights but they were more on self defence. This must be the first time he's ever attacked anyone physically, in new who anyway? Snivystorm ☎  20:51, December 7, 2015 (UTC)

Voord Victorious
This section effectively re tells the exact same information as above but from the alternate Doctor's viewpoint especially in the second paragraph. Is it not better for the Alternate 12th Doctor to have his own page, or at least a section that doesn't feel like it's trying to both telling a story and fil a biography? Snivystorm ☎  21:47, December 17, 2015 (UTC)

Love and the Doctor
I know full well that I'm opening up a pandora's box of debate here, but if we're going to talk about love with regards to River Song, that comes off as very "River shippish" and unbalanced as there is little discussion regarding the Doctor's feelings towards Clara which are unambiguous, particularly in the Face the Raven, Heaven Sent and Hell Bent. I'm trying to figure a way to word this that doesn't go into speculation, though I contest speculation regarding River is already present in this article. 68.146.52.234talk to me 19:30, January 4, 2016 (UTC)

The Doctor speaking to the dial in Heaven Sent
I do not understand the rationale of adding and readding the part of this section beginning with "the Doctor, knowing the Time Lords could save Clara..." based on the facts in Heaven Sent and Hell Bent:


 * With the Veil collapsing in on itself, the Doctor arrived on Gallifrey and, after telling a nearby boy to inform "someone important" in the Capitol of his arrival, (TV: Heaven Sent) the Doctor, knowing the Time Lords could save Clara, (TV: Hell Bent) addressed the confession dial, saying to whomever was listening that he was the Hybrid, (TV: Heaven Sent) so he would have something to bargain with them. (TV: Hell Bent)

1. "The Hybrid... is me" at the end of Heaven Sent, at least from the Doctor's perspective, seems to be referring to Me, or Ashildr, and 2. it seems to me that no-one actually was listening to him at that climax considering various scenes in Hell Bent regarding the Doctor's knowledge of the Hybrid (he purports to know what the Hybrid is, but he reveals that without saying before breaking through the azbantium wall and leaving the dial. I struggle to understand the exact importance of the cliffhanger or who, if anyone, could have heard it, given Hell Bent's dialogue.)


 * Rassilon: We needed to know. You have information about the Hybrid, a danger to all of us. If you'd told us what you knew, you could have walked out of there.

and


 * Twelfth Doctor: If you wanted to know about the Hybrid, why didn't you just ask me?
 * The General: If the Hybrid is a threat to the people of this world, why don't you just tell us?
 * Twelfth Doctor: What do you know already?
 * The General: The Hybrid is a legendary--
 * Twelfth Doctor: No.
 * The General: The Hybrid is a creature, thought to be crossbred from two warrior races.
 * Twelfth Doctor: Which races?
 * The General: The Daleks and the Time Lords, it is supposed.
 * Twelfth Doctor: Oh, must be well hard, then.
 * The General: Unstoppable, according to the stories.
 * Twelfth Doctor: If they're just stories, why are you so worried?
 * The General: Some Matrix prophecies suggest--
 * Twelfth Doctor: No.
 * The General: Many prophecies suggest--
 * Twelfth Doctor: No.
 * The General: All Matrix prophecies concur that this creature will one day stand in the ruins of Gallifrey. It will unravel the Web of Time, and destroy a billion billion hearts to heal its own.
 * Twelfth Doctor: What colour is it?
 * The General: I don't know.
 * Twelfth Doctor: These prophecies, they never tell you anything useful, do they?

and


 * Clara: OK, uhh, hang on. Wait, what? Did I miss something?
 * Twelfth Doctor: Well, we're several billion years in the future and the universe is pretty much over, so, yeah, quite a lot.
 * The General: Young lady. Miss Oswald. I'm afraid we only have a very few minutes with you.
 * Clara: Who's he?
 * The General: According to the Doctor, you can tell us something about the creature known as the Hybrid.
 * The General: Doctor, we have to explain.
 * Clara: Doctor, what is going on?
 * The General: Although you are currently conscious and aware, in fact, you died billions of years ago.
 * Clara: Doctor.
 * The General: We have extracted you at the very end of your time stream to request your help. Once we're finished here, you will be returned to your final moments. Your death is an established historical event and cannot be altered. I'm sorry.
 * The General: We have extracted you at the very end of your time stream to request your help. Once we're finished here, you will be returned to your final moments. Your death is an established historical event and cannot be altered. I'm sorry.

and


 * Ashildr: You remember now, though, don't you? Tell me, Doctor. Who is the Hybrid? Who threatens all of time and space?
 * Twelfth Doctor: Oh, but that's easy. That's very, very easy. The Hybrid is you.

So, I'm afraid I can't see in any way how either the Doctor saying the Hybrid was him, or him merely claiming it, was what caused the bargaining and escape from Gallifrey.

User:BananaClownMan mentions in an edit reason that the Doctor mentions Heaven Sent's cliffhanger to Clara in the Cloisters, but that's not true at all, unless it's referring to the diamond wall shortly before:


 * Clara: How long has it been for you since you last saw me?
 * Twelfth Doctor: Oh, I'm not sure.
 * Clara: How long?
 * Twelfth Doctor: I was stuck in a place. They--
 * Clara: They? What? Who? Who are we talking about?
 * Twelfth Doctor: They wanted something from me. Information. It really doesn't matter.
 * The General: Open up. We're going in. We'll stick to the perimeter, no more than three paces from the lift. Do not enter the Cloisters.
 * Twelfth Doctor: Twenty feet of pure diamond. Harder than diamond. But you'll break through anything, given time.
 * Clara: How much time?
 * The General: Miss Oswald.
 * Clara: Stay back.
 * The General: I'm sorry, but we have to find a way to extract you--
 * Clara: I said stay back! The Hybrid, what is it? What's so important you would fight so long?
 * Twelfth Doctor: It doesn't matter what the Hybrid is. It only matters that I convinced them that I knew. Otherwise, they'd have kicked me out, and I'd have nothing left to bargain with.
 * Clara: What were you bargaining for?
 * Twelfth Doctor: What do you think? You. I had to find a way to save you. I knew it had to be the Time Lords. They cost you your life on Trap Street, Clara, and I was gonna make them bring you back. I just had to hang on in there for a bit.
 * Clara: How long?
 * Twelfth Doctor: It was fine.
 * Clara: One question, and you will answer. How long was the Doctor trapped inside the confession dial?
 * Ohila: We think four and a half billion years.
 * The General: He could have left any time he wanted. He just had to say what he knew. The dial would have released him.
 * The General: He could have left any time he wanted. He just had to say what he knew. The dial would have released him.

And again, combined with stuff like the General not knowing the Hybrid's colour and so forth, the Doctor says, prior to leaving the dial in Heaven Sent, he knows what the Hybrid is. BananaClownMan gives the edit reason: "The hanging on for a bit refers to him waiting in the barn. He tells the dial he is the Hybrid, and themn waits for the Time Lords to come for him so he can turn the tables and save Clara," even though right after saying that he was having to hang on in there to bargain with them, Clara asks Ohila "How long was the Doctor trapped inside the confession dial?" Also, in Heaven Sent, he tells a boy to go to the city and tell "somebody important" he's back, and the "you could have walked out of there", "they'd have kicked me out" and "he could have left any time he wanted" in Hell Bent is also clearly referring to the four and a half billion years in the dial, and not the waiting in the barn. I'm sorry, but there's so many caveats to assume the Time Lords could still hear him outside the confession dial saying "the Hybrid... is me", which again, more likely means Ashildr, that they probably didn't. -- Tybort (talk page) 02:36, April 13, 2016 (UTC)


 * All this is quite persuading, if not for the following line for the Heaven Sent cliffhanger you haven't addressed; "You can probably still hear me, so just between ourselves, you've got the prophecy wrong." Your argument stems from the idea the Time Lords were still listening after he escaped, the Doctor himself states there is a possibility they can't.BananaClownMan ☎  12:41, April 13, 2016 (UTC)


 * My last point on this is literally "they probably didn't", so I'm not sure what's being added here. -- Tybort (talk page) 22:01, April 16, 2016 (UTC)


 * Look, User:Tybort, I'm going to level with you here; I have no love for the Heaven Sent cliffhanger, or Hell Bent either, and I have a lot on my plate with University finals in the near future. So, you win, I guess. I will no longer edit that part of the timeline, or argue with you about it.BananaClownMan ☎  17:21, April 29, 2016 (UTC)