User talk:CzechOut/Archive 9

More bad disambiging
Daniel Matthews and Daniel Matthews (Auton) should be moved around as Daniel Matthews (actor) and Daniel Matthews, as in-universe terms always take precedence. -- Tybort (talk page) 01:34, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Have a similar problem with Guy Adams and the as-yet unmade Guy Adams (Timeless) -- Tybort (talk page) 02:28, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

The diambigu-arrrghhhh
Just noticed there's a minor trickster character in a Fifth Doctor story. Is THE Trickster sufficient disambiguation enough with the SJA villain? Also, what about the page "Trickster"? Should that lead to the Sarah Jane villain? Nine of its twelve links clearly refer to the SJA character. (As well as one I corrected that for some reason led to the Trickster's Brigade) -- Tybort (talk page) 14:52, February 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, if there IS three of em, Trickster can be a simple dab page. -- Tybort (talk page) 00:52, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Third Doctor comic images
Okay, so I have collected the images you requested for the page. I have looked across multiple comics with very good images that I hope we can use to illistrate the page.


 * First off, you asked for 4 COMIC images. The first, of coarse, is File:Abe Lincoln.jpg, which we discussed before. The next is a similar image, File:Third Doctor Nazi.jpg, which is also one of those stand-off-ish images. The next is this one, which I choose because it contained Finney, who is one of the more popular comic-companions.
 * Next, you asked for an image of the Doctor and one of his "boy" companions. I choose the Doctor and Nick, the first African American companion.
 * you also requested an image from a comic story produced later. I choose two. File:Target Practice.jpg is, like you suggested, from Target Practice. I also want to include this image from Death to the Doctor!, because of it's varying style and it's recency. I realise that it does not work well on the page, so I have cropped it down here.
 * And last of all, you asked me to find a pre-TVA TvC image, which I admitt is my weak spot, and this is the best I could find. I'm sure you have a better stock of TVC images then me, so I dont mind if you replace that one...

Just incase you find any of my images unsatisfactory, I have also supplied some replacements; File:Third Doctor and Ace.jpg File:TheVortex.jpg File:Fourth Doctor & Third Dcotor Sea Devils.png File:Change of mind.jpg

Hope my images are satisfactory.. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:48, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Five Doctors
Well, I'll admit the first one I uploaded was not from the special edition re-release, but the second one was. I apologise if it is not up to standards. Do you have any thoughts on the comic images I sent you in the last message? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 03:52, February 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * The fram-grabber I use is AVS Video Editor, what would you suggest? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 04:05, February 14, 2012 (UTC)

The visual editor has been disabled. I see no way of using templates to inser things like IMDB pages, namesorts, etc.Boblipton talk to me 21:57, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you did go over it twice. And I used the simple method and am sufficiently annoyed at the disregard of my wishes t not be in the mood to relearn how to do this work. You are aware that the first line of most of the stuff is not easily amanageable -- no longer available highlight and paste. I'm sure there is a nice explanation of how to go about doing that. However, the wisdom of learning how to do it the new way is questionable whn it may very well be changed. Boblipton talk to me 22:52, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

Misnamings by the bot
THe Wedding of River Song (TV story) and THe waters of Mars (TV story) are...well, you can sort of see for yourself. Can these be moved to the proper place? How did the bot do that, anyway? -- Tybort (talk page) 13:17, February 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * Small World (TV story) should be Small Worlds with an s. -- Tybort (talk page) 20:17, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi there, just to say thanks for the advice on what to do with pictures. I recently recieved my Mannequin Mania boxset so looked at the story's articles and decided that they needed some pictures, so sorry if for a bit I made things a bit confusing for you LOL by adding them all without the right tags. I know now though, and will bear that in mind in future when adding new pictures. Also thanks for the welcome, hehe yeah sorry I didn't realise that creating my own talk page delayed the welcome but thanks for the links, they look very helpful. So, yes, thanks and happy editing :) --Dalek194 talk to me 18:22, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, ok, thanks again :) By the way, I just noticed files like that of the First Doctor handbook cover, which predominantly feature one Doctor but have small thumbnails of the other, are categorised as under all of the Doctor's photograph pages... shouldn't this be changed? I know that I'm probably wrong, but it seems a little silly that all of the handbook covers be categorised under all of the Doctors when each cover is specific to one of them. Thanks :) --Dalek194 talk to me 22:32, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Bot suggestion
Shouldn't The ArcHive Tapes (audio story) be renamed "The ArcHive Tapes (audio series)?" OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 21:37, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

More bot work
The content of the page Out of Time (disambiguation) should lead to Out of Time, while in the meantime all links to Out of Time (so far as I can tell) all lead to the TV story. I'm not sure why that went unnoticed even before the mass move to (TV story). -- Tybort (talk page) 21:55, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

Images
Thanks and sorry. May I point out a mistake? At Attack of the Graske, the image biotin goes to Category:Attack of the Graske TV story images instead of Category:Attack of the Graske video game images. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 03:01, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

Standard apostrophes
I just saw the message you left on Victory93's page and thought I'd just mention that it may have been unintentional and not deliberate. I used to bulk write EDA pages offline, in Word which introduced those punctuation problems like the apostrophe and also ellipsis which don't look any different in Word (also TextEdit with the ellipsis). You also can't tell the difference looking at them, until you come to type and link them (which gave me a lot of problems with Sometime Never...). The apostrophe use as you noted can also be seen in a lot of User:The Librarian's contributions, they're of less concern but it is still notable if you know to look for them. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:35, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

im Originals bot block me if you feel i may be a threat as you have blocked my last 2 accounts sorry i just wanted a anpther chance i promise i wont muck up i love doctor who and to take that away from me by blocking me because i cant learn from the wika is just un belivable i know youre going to block me so OA

I didn't even know about T:SOCK until you told me so please OB

Video games and books
Thank you for making a decision on the Happy Deathday page... May I ask however, if we should do the same for The Five Doctors... Or if that's a little too much.

Also, I also added Who Killed Kennedy to Category:Books from the real world, as the book itself is an in-universe book... Every page in it is a page from a book in the DWU... So should we make a separate page for the in-universe book itself? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:20, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Category
Hi Czechout. Is there supposed to be Category:Books from the real world on your talk page. I didn't want to remove it from earlier instances.

Advanced Navigation
Yeah, sorry about that. I only activated it purely too see what it looked liked, how it worked and too see if it would work and fit in with our theme. But, as you said, it does need at lot of work, if we ever activate it again. MM/ Want to talk? 23:26, February 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I has completely forgotten about that. I'll remember it next time, I have the urge to play, which quite frankly, is quite often. MM/ Want to talk? 23:28, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

TV story pages/categories
Is there a reason that Amy's Choice hasn't been moved to the new nomenclature? It and the Category:Amy's Choice TV story images don't exist. I thought I'd hold off on creating/moving them as the move has been your realm.

Also on a related note the template on Category:Doctor Who (1996) TV story images doesn't link to the story. Which I guess is similar to Amy's Choice, as [Doctor Who (1996) also hasn't been moved. Though I'm not sure about having double brackets of stuff in the story name. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:30, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Monobook skin
Isn't the monobook skin finished by now? The last edit was October 3, 2011. 19:58, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Renaming
Don'cha think that File:vlcsnap-2011-10-17-17h34m35s33.png should be renamed? I can't so I'm sure admins can, like on ? Thanks

Actually, Czechout, I find you wrong! I typed in the URL for renaming a picture, and tardis.wikia tells me that I 'dont have the permision'!

Hidden categories
Do you have any ideas on how to make the hidden categories appear? The option is no longer under 'preferences', where it used to be. MM/ Want to talk? 13:38, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Community Messages
Hey, how did you change the Community Messages thing to say "Tales from the Tardis" ?--Phantom Stranger talk to me 09:26, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Infobox Organisation
Is the rework of images in infoboxes still a work in progress or are they done? Because pages using Template:Infobox Organisation just have a barebones image name rather than showing any image. (i.e. Twelfth Cyber Legion). -- Tybort (talk page) 17:22, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought explained it in that forum thread? Basically, by the time you responded, you already fixed it. -- Tybort (talk page) 17:41, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * When I wrote that, it had a customised title that said The Dæmons (TV story), but the actual page wasn't on (TV story). You moved it manually two days after that was written. -- Tybort (talk page) 13:28, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

problems with story page
Hi, there are a bunch of what look like code errors on the Colony in Space page, includng the title, infobox, discontinuity index, footnotes, and more. Sorry, but I have no idea how to fix them. Shambala108 talk to me 04:36, March 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I checked it twice before notifying you, but now it's fine. Sorry for bothering you! Shambala108 talk to me 05:06, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

Thank You
Thank you for fixing the Nightmare Fair novelisation page. Americanwhofan talk to me 18:47, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Re: 'In character' appearances by the Doctor
Hi czechout,

Thank you for your reply of 28th February 2012 to my question ('In character' appearances by the Doctor) at the Reference Desk forum page, and for putting everything regarding the subject matter into perspective.

To be honest, I had no idea that the template page you mentioned, DWTV, existed at all (which just goes to show how much I know!). But now I know it does, I'll know where to look in future.

Mind you, Neil Harris's review of the U.N.I.T. Files DVD box set in Doctor Who Magazine Issue 443 (cover dated: 8 February 2012) does describe Jon Pertwee's in-character appearance along with the Whomobile on Billy Smart's Children's Circus as "a mini-adventure which I'm sure many will regard as canonical" – but then, that's his opinion! :-)

Freddie R. Aldous talk to me 14:59, March 6, 2012 (UTC)

Re: Neil Harris
Yes, I have definitely seen the Whomobile's appearance in Billy Smart's Children's Circus, czechout. Thank you for asking.

And, as well as hoping that the Doctor succeeded in helping Gabriella Smart find her lost performing dogs in time for her forthcoming act, I hope Neil Harris was kidding... :-)

Freddie R. Aldous talk to me 15:34, March 6, 2012 (UTC)

Mentions
Didn't realise it was still under consideration. For completion's sake, I recall doing that to Albert recently too.

That said, what about home era? Does that apply too? That one's still on Character/preload. -- Tybort (talk page) 18:58, March 6, 2012 (UTC)

table images query
Hi! been a while I know. I've been personally archiving some who related bits at home to clear some space which is taking longer than I thought I must add!, but just noticed that images on tables (well Doctor Who: Monster Invasion (magazine) and Sarah Jane CO figures) seem to have lost the sizing consistancy. I know you've mentioned my image sizes before and recommend tables to display images rather than galleries but this has thrown me a bit. Any to say that may help would be much appreciated ie how to determine the size of an image in a table. Thanks The Librarian talk to me 23:40, March 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Who's been a busy boy then? :) Ok I think I got most of it and will endeavour to happily conform (got some catching up to do I reckon). To address some of the points so you know where I'm coming from.... The Battles in Time images were composites (never sequential) and as you said old- they were my first attempt at comic strips and rather than create a page of each they were like a visual jogger to characters and objects that because of lack of content at the time I didn't think warranted an entry each - besides which it was unclear (as with most partworks how many parts their were going to be). To be honest I've never knowingly used thumbnails so I've got to mend my ways there. Regarding tables with images I know what you mean - I tried for ages to find an example to see what I was doing wrong and in the end gave up and passed it over to you ! hahaha The only one I think I've created and used was the Doctor Who: Monster Invasion (magazine) and that was following your suggestion not to use galleries so much and I found the Character Options SJA action figures link which you gave me as an example.


 * I stopped editting for a while because I had problems. For some reason I could only seem to edit by going to the beginning of a section and scrolling across the purple block to get to where I wanted to be which was really annoying- but I think this may have been sorted - I'll let you know.


 * Didn't quite get the categorising images bit (I'll go back and re-read it. I notice that in selecting copyright licence several have been removed (eg illustration from specific titles) Is this temporary or do I have to select "other source"/None of the above? With DWA no longer a BBC Magazine title it was better to have a DWA illustration copyright on the drop down I see there is one for DWM and IDW. :(


 * If you could please keep an eye on me for a bit - I'm bound to mess up somewhere, I'm not technically minded and DO want to get it right. Sorry for any unnecessary hassle I've caused. Will try to do better! I notice as well that edits to talk pages don't seem to flag up as you have new message. I think thats where I lost out on keeping up to date unusually I was focussed on whatever-I-was-doing. ANyway Thanks again I'll see what I can do The Librarian talk to me 19:37, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

Episode infobox
Nice work with the episode infobox. I know it's probably not that close to being finished, but looking at the format right now, would it be a good idea to spilt up the 'format' line. It currently stands, for example as 1x50 minute episode.

Should this not be broken down into:


 * Length, which we give either the precise length of the episode or even just let it remain as it is (rounded up)

and


 * Number of episodes. In most cases for the new series this would just be '1', but for the likes of The End of Time and the classic series, it would be '2', '3' etc.

I just think it would look a bet better, now is the time, I suppose, to see if it worthwhile doing or not. Thanks. MM/ Want to talk? 10:42, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

New story navboxes
Are you carefully overseeing the navigation templates yourself, or is it fine if I do tweaks where I see fit? -- Tybort (talk page) 20:28, March 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Or is the bot still in the middle of things as well? -- Tybort (talk page) 20:39, March 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, a couple more questions:


 * 1) What warrants a "main setting"? Do important preludes and epilogues count if they're a massive part of the plot?
 * 2) I notice a couple of stories have a previously and next produced in the navbox. How do double-banked episodes fit into that?
 * 3) Dreamland shouldn't really have anything to do with The Waters of Mars and The End of Time's "previous and next" navigation, right?
 * 4) Does/will Infobox Story suit non-Doctor-and-companion stories? Or is it just for Doctor Who?
 * 5) How should The End of Time's "confidential" and "story number" sections go? -- Tybort (talk page) 00:45, March 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * When I asked 1, I was thinking of prologues and epilogues in particular so I'm glad you pointed out the Closing Time examples.


 * On Dreamland, I was thinking otherwise to due to it not really being considered a 2009 special (at least according to Dreamland (TV story) and 2009 Specials (Doctor Who)'s pages). But it seems silly to have The End of Time AND Dreamland on The Waters of Mars next, and The Waters of Mars AND Dreamland on The End of Times previous.


 * Also, what would you do with the revival's Comic Relief and Children in Need specials i.e. Space/Time in the previous/next navigation?


 * To elaborate on 5. Confidential refers to The End of Time being a two-parter and therefore having two confidential links, and its story number is 202a and 202b when presumably 202 would suffice? The only time I'd think the lettering would apply is the special case with The Trial of a Time Lord (143a-d). -- Tybort (talk page) 02:15, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Editing issues
I've got two computers at the moment (but haven't really tested it out yet (Windows 7 / IE - I'll let you know if the same occurs later), but the one that I'm using mostly and had issues were; Vista / Firefox latest / Wikia (with Bernice). Just got home so I'll get details later and let you know examples. RE: Messages/Alerts - I'm getting general wikia notifications and Rassilon awards but nothing to say that I have new message on my talk page. I'm sure I used to. RE: Page editing - what happens is; I go to edit a section, it appears in a 'greyed out' block but sometimes doesn't allow me to edit directly into a line unless I go to the left of the frame and scroll across through the text. As I tend to prepare pages its not an issue I've found with editing previews but I have found it when tidying up pages. Once at least last night I recall. I'll let you know next time it occurs.
 * Incidently on this page, to the left of the insert tag blank box, over-writing the dotted line border of the 'This is a talk page .....'is the text "Or enter full pagetitle, including namespace" 82.22.216.170talk to me 01:02, March 10, 2012 (UTC)The Librarian talk to me 01:03, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Please unprotect page
The Fourth Wall (audio story) has been released now, but the page is still locked from editing. Americanwhofan talk to me 01:20, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Infoboxen
Are you ever not busy? :)

Just a quick question, re the retirement of my little bp template, how will we list multiple years/settings without line breaks/bullet points? I'm thinking of stuff like The Chase and The Left-Handed Hummingbird. On The Chase it's fairly obvious with all the settings sort of crammed together. Thanks. --Tangerineduel / talk 13:23, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Related to both this and what you said about "main settings", how do serials which go all over the place narrow down to one or two main settings? The main culprits I can think of are TV: Fragments, most of Miracle Day, TV: The Infinite Quest, Turn Left and The Wedding of River Song. Possibly The Chase and The Daleks' Master Plan, too, though I'm less familiar with those stories to draw attention to them. -- Tybort (talk page) 14:09, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw your note on Tybort's page asking to hold off on making changes for a day or two. At the very least, the bot should be putting breaks in here instead of just removing the list tags. I hope there's an easy solution to this, since so many lines are being smashed together.
 * Should we leave the smashed-together listings for the bot to handle, or should we manually separate them?
 * Similarly, should we start removing the BP uses, or let the bot handle those?
 * How should we separate these lines, now and later? a break only, a comma only, a comma and a break, or something else? -- Gousha talk to me 03:04, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * The prime examples I saw were pages like Dalek Emperor, Arcturan and Axos, and fixes I already applied to Transolar disc and a few lesser ones. It appears the issue may already be in hand, as I see the changes done to Cyber-Wars points at just using a comma between items. However, even there the changes aren't complete. (see the result box). -- Gousha talk to me 05:37, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Can we not have bullet points but remove any indentation? Or do bullet points not work like that here?

I can see what you're trying to do with the setting field, and I agree, we don't need all that information, it's enough to say where the setting is for the characters, rather than being all specific about what land mass or nation it is (unless that's the only info).

I don't know what the original editors were up to, I think it was user:Mantrid who gave us infobox, but the fields were never explained it was more a case of look at the stories it was used on and then go and use it on others. Or at least that's how I and others went about it. I remember there being an infobox before Mantrid's creation though I can't remember what stories it was on (only remember removing it and all its code from pages.).

I definitely think we need to keep setting and year. I think this might also help editors to economise their information, if we say the setting field has to be a single location and the year field has to only correspond to that location.

Would this mean that we'd have multiple fields like setting1=/year1=, setting2=/year2= etc? I'm just thinking that if we've got all the info organised like that it would make using that data, when separated out like that a lot easier than just with commas (though I also imagine that it's not something a bot can do, so there'll be a lot of manual edits in the future).

Also I'd like to say thank you for not replacing the 'Previous'/'Next' with just arrows, it is something I know I've mentioned in the past, but it's a real pet hate of mine. Navigating MemoryAlpha is a pain because of their arrows / mouse over info (and MemAlpha is practically un-navigatable on a mobile browser because of them). --Tangerineduel / talk 16:21, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Voice actor
Just while I remember, can you add 'Voice actor(s)' as a field on the individual infobox? It will be more accurate for individuals such as Mr Smith, Daleks, Cybermen etc if we have voice actors separate from actors, since they some people can see them as different. MM/ Want to talk? 18:50, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Images by comic story
I notice you don't seem to have an images by COMIC, PHS, DWY and COMIC comic story images. I assume there's a simple way for the bot to do those? Notably, I can see at least one example, DWY: Metamorphosis being mislabelled as DWAN. -- Tybort (talk page) 23:51, March 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Confusingly, TVA: The Unheard Voice and PHS: Doomcloud are listed as TVC, but I'm gathering that's because they're Fourth Doctor reprints with muddling categorising. -- Tybort (talk page) 00:19, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, and COMIC, too. Notably, DH: Time Bomb! was also miscategorised. -- Tybort (talk page) 03:01, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Race into species?
I've noticed that character pages are no longer displaying a character's race unless the race section of the infobox is changed to read species instead. Is there some kind of error here, or is this a new policy? Because if it's the latter, then it's going to take a REALLY long time to change every single character's infobox. Memnarc talk to me 00:32, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Bp
Either way, I assume that the fix won't cover for  and , or, right? -- Tybort (talk page) 14:55, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure if I got a straight answer. Will the above code I mentioned be part of the bot's cleanout over the next few days ON TOP OF bp? -- Tybort (talk page) 18:38, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh damn, just when I spotted your alteration of "home planet" to "origin" too. Is it not fine to make edits that don't have to do with raw HTML to infoboxes? -- Tybort (talk page) 19:33, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, must have missed/misread your first three warnings. -- Tybort (talk page) 20:58, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * And no, I don't understand how that wasn't clear either. I just reread your messages about infoboxes. -- Tybort (talk page) 21:23, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Vehicle images
Just to double-check, does Category:Vehicle images only apply to exterior shots or interior ones as well? -- Tybort (talk page) 15:16, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, Midnight and Voyage of the Damned are entire episodes set inside (non-TARDIS) vessels. I was mostly considering spaceships or public transport when I said that, so at least closer to the "people strolling" one. Didn't consider the ubiquity of "closeups of people who are in a car" when I asked.

Would something like the Titanic's nuclear storm drive be yay or nay? -- Tybort (talk page) 18:36, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Home era
With the 'Home Era' section now redundant in the infobox, would now be a good time to suggest a change to something like 'Era active' or something along those line - this would make sense since we do have individuals placed in X century.

Era active would just be the era/century we see them in - Amy Pond would be 20th and 21st century whereas as Waitress (Random Shoes) would be 21st century. In other words, we do not base it one age.

Also, is 'affiliation' be a good field to add? MM/ Want to talk? 19:54, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Infobox Individual
Poor time to ask, but I actually forgot I didn't press "publish" on this page until after your warning.

On Infobox Individual, does "voice actor" apply only to audio drama actors, or does this apply to voiceover roles in live action as well? (i.e. The Nucleus, Cyber-Leader (Mondas), Blon Fel-Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen) -- Tybort (talk page) 21:45, March 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * "Physical actors that were credited" and whether they "count" as main actors is what I was going for. And I think I meant Cyber-Controller, come to think of it, not Cyber-Leader. Whichever had Michael Kilgarriff inside. -- Tybort (talk page) 01:29, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Help!
Does it go into Panopticon as well, or just Infobox discussions? -- Tybort (talk page) 23:53, March 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * While attempting this task, I notice you don't seem to have followed up on my question about home era (though I can gather from your chat with User:Mini-mitch that it's not going anywhere and can be deleted just fine). That said, it's fine for me to rework Character/preload, to Infobox Individual's current parameters or is that part of your heavy editing too? -- Tybort (talk page) 00:10, March 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * That bit about "mentions" on the 6th. Would that fall under the category too? -- Tybort (talk page) 02:15, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

MA achievements
Will do! I sort them out over the next couple of days, then over the next couple of weeks I was planning of doing one for Doctor Who confidential episodes - which, as anyone can tell by looking at any of the episode pages, are nothing more than skeleton articles. MM/ Want to talk? 00:49, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Infoboxes
Was there a specific thread to ask general fixes to infoboxes while they're off-limits? Because Kymbra Chimera is very mixed up. -- Tybort (talk page) 03:13, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure what was going on with Billy Wilkins either. -- Tybort (talk page) 03:50, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, Revelation of the Daleks (TV story). -- Tybort (talk page) 11:43, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I could sort of see what at least some of the issues were in the code, but I gathered that apart from the bit you specified, I couldn't fix them at the risk of messing with the bot. Same with }. -- Tybort (talk page) 15:34, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Image issue
What do you do about images with the same name but different cases? (File:Bill.jpg and File:Bill.Jpg) Do you put spelt on both, or what? And yes, they do seem to refer to the same Bill. -- Tybort (talk page) 03:41, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Bot removed text from article
Almost all content was removed from Hath Gable by User:CzechBot in this edit: http://tardis.wikia.com/index.php?title=Hath_Gable&oldid=978537 Americanwhofan talk to me 06:41, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Shannon Sullivan
I'm sure I heard you say something about counting Dreamland in the prev/next infobox, but as it's an animation, it doesn't have a production order on Sullivan's site to go into the previously and next produced. Is there any way I could find the dates for when production began vs. the rest of the 2009 specials? -- Tybort (talk page) 11:54, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's okay to do tweaks to the regular previous and next variables, then? I was only adding the made next and made prev, just to be sure. -- Tybort (talk page) 15:32, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was actually referring to your suggestion in organising Dreamland, but yes, lots of syntax errors for whatever reason. It's going to take a while to find them again, but I saw several throughout Pertwee through Colin's pages. Do you want a full list? -- Tybort (talk page) 15:55, March 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe "error" was too strong a word, but whatever it is is definitely not supposed to be there. Maybe it's that (TV story) thing you mentioned? It at least explains what was going on on Survival and Rose.


 * The Ark, The Gunfighters, The Ambassadors of Death, Terror of the Autons, The Keeper of Traken, Castrovalva, Four to Doomsday, The Visitation, Earthshock, Time-Flight, Snakedance, Mawdryn Undead, Terminus, Enlightenment, The King's Demons, Warriors of the Deep, The Awakening, Resurrection of the Daleks, Time and the Rani, Delta and the Bannermen, Remembrance of the Daleks, Survival, Doctor Who (1996), Rose, The Unquiet Dead, World War Three, The Long Game, Boom Town, The Parting of the Ways, The Christmas Invasion (under "next story"), New Earth, School Reunion, The Lazarus Experiment, 42, Human Nature, The Family of Blood, Blink, The Sound of Drums, Forest of the Dead, Turn Left, The Waters of Mars, The End of Time (on top of it having two inputs), Vincent and the Doctor, The Lodger, The Pandorica Opens, The Big Bang, A Christmas Carol (again, on top of the two inputs), Space, Time, The Impossible Astronaut (not including the double-input), The God Complex and The Wedding of River Song. -- Tybort (talk page) 18:56, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

BBV
Hey, how d owe categorize BBV-spinoff images? For instance, would Category:Zygon: When Being You Just Isn't Enough TV story images be acceptable? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 23:50, March 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I AM watching an actual copy of the film, but it's not on VHS. and I have actually taken these pictures from the video, so I haven't just taken these images from a random website, no. May I say, it kinda sucks and I wouldn't suggest watching it... It doesn't make much sense and the full-frontal nudity gets annoying... OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 00:15, March 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * What about Destiny of the Doctors? (I changed the main pic by instruction dot do so. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 03:36, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

Spelling Error
Hi, I was rewatching Turn Left and I noticed that Rocco Colasanto is actually spelled Rocco Colasanto in the credits. Brynnis talk to me 05:59, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

Bot stripping prev/next story, adding dab for better link
The bot made a mistake during this run, on Myth Maker (comic story), changing The Planet That Wept to The Planet That Wept (comic story), the article is at The Planet That Wept (short story). It may have done this on other annuals, which have short stories and comics in the same book.Americanwhofan talk to me 18:07, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

A New Life
A New Life (1976) and A New Life (1978) are now A New Life (1976) (short story) and A New Life (1978) (short story) (but with the customised title). Is that an error? -- Tybort (talk page) 19:45, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

Infoboxes
So, are ALL infoboxes off-limits, or is it just individual and story ones? -- Tybort (talk page) 21:44, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

Front page automation
I think keep it as a monthly thing. The quote of the week is short, simple.

But the feature articles are longer and more involved, not all of the articles featured can have info grabbed from the intro, so some need to be written for their feature on the main page. I think that's too much to do on a weekly process.

But even disregarding that element, the feature articles are larger entities, and the articles we link off to need to be of a certain size. I think if we went with a weekly feature article we'd burn through all our articles quite quickly. --Tangerineduel / talk 13:14, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

Bot Error
After your bot edited the infobox of Cold War (comic story), changing previous story/next story to just prev/next, prev/next stories didn't appear in the article. They are still in the code, they just don't display. Americanwhofan talk to me 20:13, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

audio story released
Please unprotect Wirrn Isle (audio story).

Cyberman variants
As Cybermen from the Twelfth Cyber Legion seemed to have been agreed to be Mondasian some time ago, could the reference to "A Good Man Goes to War Cybermen" on Template:Cyberman variants be removed from "Other types"? -- Tybort (talk page) 16:20, March 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Cybermat (Blood of the Cybermen) was merged with Cybermat a little while back so should be removed from Cyberman variants, but are even the "normal" ones a version of Cybermen? -- Tybort (talk page) 15:14, April 11, 2012 (UTC)

infobox prev/next
On the page for Destination: Nerva (audio story), there is no previous story, but the infobox puts the next story under Previous. Americanwhofan talk to me 20:21, March 19, 2012 (UTC)

Moving links
Out of Time (disambiguation) should really be at Out of Time, while all current links to Out of Time should lead to the Torchwood story. -- Tybort (talk page) 16:29, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Again with the blocking issues?
Well, I was using the wiki clock at the top, and when I tried to edit, it told me that I would be unblocked at 17:55... Plus, this isnt the first time this has happend, there have been many times when you banned me for a day only then to unlock me shortly later, only I still stay unblocked. I think this occurrence even way back to the first time you blocked me. For a similar occurrence, see User talk:OttselSpy25 OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:46, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

Screwed up images
I'm sure there was a forum thread to deal with this, but I can't remember right now what it was called. Anyway, DWM 290 is all screwed up due to having four infobox images. -- Tybort (talk page) 21:45, March 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * DWM 413 utilises a slideshow. While not as bad, does it even conceivably work properly under the new coding? -- Tybort (talk page) 22:24, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

RE: DWM COVERS
Hi- sorry been away a bit. You may have noticed I've been revisting some of the early DWM pages. Odd that that was the first thing I started on here lol but thats distractions for you. I've been redoing some of the cover images as I come across them bringing them up to size. I usually go through them in blocks of about 50 - but don't worry they haven't escaped my attention! The Librarian talk to me 03:12, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just checked - BUGGER there's loads! guilty as charged! will review them soon, very soon The Librarian talk to me 03:22, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

Sally Sparrow
I gather Sally Sparrow and Sally Sparrow (Doctor Who Annual) are not standard dab. Obviously, the first one should be Sally Sparrow (Blink), but, I dunno, is Sally Sparrow (What I Did on My Christmas Holidays by Sally Sparrow) a bit...much? Or am I just overthinking things? -- Tybort (talk page) 14:41, March 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * On a related note, Quark and Quark (physics). What would the first best be dabed as? Should it remain as simply "Quark"? -- Tybort (talk page) 17:19, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

What's wrong...?
Hoover, Quinton K. ORQ response 5 A) Okay, for pics one and two it needs to be Futher cropped and in pic 3 it is blurry and hard to make out.

OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:55, March 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Pic three is also kinda grey looking'... I propably should have turned up the contrast... I'm not at a computer right now, but I'll fix these images when I am. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:59, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

Companion
There's some strange, unusual appropriations of "companions" under the category Category:Companions of the Doctor. I'll get back to you on which ones specifically I have issue with in a little bit. -- Tybort (talk page) 21:33, March 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll get there. Don't worry. Meanwhile, I've found several permutations in brackets that the bot seems to have missed. Deleted several unusual or near-unique ones, but here seem to be the "repeating" ones: (Introduction) (capital I), both (Introduction; joins) (uppercase I) and (introduction; joins) (lowercase i), (introduction, joins) and (departure). -- Tybort (talk page) 22:13, March 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Here we go. Several I'm not 100% on. Note that many of them also appear on the story infoboxes, too.


 * Alex (Night Terrors)
 * Altos
 * Bellal
 * Samantha Briggs
 * Jennifer Buckingham
 * David Campbell
 * Caris
 * Jeremy Carstairs
 * Will Chandler
 * Copper (Voyage of the Damned)
 * Cully
 * Rachel Defwydd
 * Canton Delaware
 * Engin
 * Bill Filer
 * Giuliano
 * Sabalom Glitz
 * Vincent van Gogh
 * Jane Hampden
 * Olive Hawthorne
 * Henry Gordon Jago
 * Jenny (The Doctor's Daughter)
 * Clifford Jones
 * K9 Mark III (at least under Category:Sixth and Tenth Doctor companions. He travelled with the Fourth Doctor and Adric in the annuals, if I'm not mistaken)
 * K9 Mark IV
 * Gia Kelly
 * Hugo Lang
 * George Litefoot
 * Richard Mace
 * Mila
 * Lynda Moss
 * Norna
 * Peladon of Peladon
 * Marco Polo (I do sort of recall the word "companion" thrown around in that story, but that was almost certainly before fandom and the revival series gave it its established meaning)
 * Range
 * Sabetha
 * Seth
 * Elizabeth Shaw (Inferno Earth)
 * Spandrell
 * Teka
 * Edward Travers
 * Jackie Tyler
 * Tyssan
 * Seruba Velak
 * Bret Vyon
 * Isobel Watkins
 * H. G. Wells


 * There's also Lily Arwell from the recentish Christmas special, which I believe does count, but whoever's edited The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe's infobox doesn't, so, maybe?


 * I don't think Category:K9 models should go under Category:Robot companions, given that it includes K9 Mark 2, Orthrus and the BBV one. -- Tybort (talk page) 23:22, March 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * And for some reason, Amanda Legend Lefcourt, Anna (Good Companions), Guinevere Winchester and Sarah-Jane (Who's Who?) are categorised under Category:Non-canonical companions, despite none of their stories being from "breaks in the DWU sources" (and they don't even have notdwu on their pages). (There's also Melanie Bush, but I THINK that has something to do with BFDWU).


 * On a side note, what do you do about stuff which is still incorrectly alphabetised despite the efforts of NameSort? -- Tybort (talk page) 23:22, March 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, it's not a massive list I have in mind, but just for starters, Vincent van Gogh. -- Tybort (talk page) 10:23, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Truly Awesome Coding
Hey. I was wondering if you could link me to all the coding pages so I can get my wiki (Roblox wiki) looking like this, or similar. It would be quite nice! I know there is css and js involved, but I am not fluent in either of those scripting languages, although I can do the basics and some copying + pasting. Please reply soon! &#123;&#123;SUBST:User:Colgatecity/sig3}} talk to me 23:17, March 25, 2012 (UTC)

Infobox Query
Hi CzechOut, I've seen that we've now gone over to categorising articles in brackets, no problem with that (I think I may have done it in my early days before having them re-edited), but I'm not sure about DWA comic stories and the previous / next bit of the infobox. Have they been automatically changed by one of your little bots because I can't seem to get it right with some stories from about issue 252 (eg Picture Imperfect). For all new pages Im happy to head them title (comic story) but how does that fit in with previous/next? left unbracketed they dont show as Prev /Title (comic story) because the page is already there with a redirect. So should new stories be referenced as eg Picture Imperfect ? Because if its a sequential run of comic stories does it need to show as such? Sorry once I'm clear what I'm doing I'll be fine - just being thick ... again! And also .... should I be 'expecting' a message notifying me if a message has been left on my talk page, like with points earned? The Librarian talk to me 00:14, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

DWA copyright tag
Me again ... the copyright tag for Doctor Who Adventures covers is a BBC one but the title is now published by the Immediate Media Company. And for clarification, as the categories seem to have been streamlined - images from DWA should be tagged with a generic interior image? The Librarian talk to me 01:50, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

More Queries
How do you now remove a category as only an add category is now visible (eg with Doctor Who Adventures (Issue 160 - ) 'Galleries' needs removing as the more appropriate 'Magazine cover gallery' - opps my bad!

... Re the editing problem I mentioned - it seems to function on the left-hand third of the highlighted editing block, clicking on the right hand side of the highlighted text undoes the highlighted text to be edited. (Vista / Firefox) The Librarian talk to me 02:44, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

MA achievements
I been meaning to get back to you on this. All the MA achievements that current have images over at Tardis Test are the only one I can do, I am unable to find relevant pictures to fill in the other ones, mainly due to gaps in my knowledge and lack of images. I not sure if you want to finish it or just scrap it, but if you do go ahead, I'm ready to upload the images I have prepared.

Also, would a category for Doctor Who Confidential be out of the question? They, to me, really need updating. MM/ Want to talk? 12:24, March 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll upload the images their today or tomorrow, and I'll start the Confidential on their tomorrow or Monday. Nice work with the achievements, they are really good! MM/ Want to talk? 23:10, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Zygon
Okay, so you removed the bits about the Zygon being in Attack of the Graske, an understandable action indeed. just wanted to poit out that the idea that there was a Zygon in the game was a well known idea, put on such sites as, and this wield page... even if it IS just fan speculation, it deserves to go in the "Myths" section. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 22:18, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Look, all I'm saying is that the rumour that the Zygons appear is popular, so we should mention it in the "Myths" section. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 22:28, March 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * Eh. Fair enough. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 23:28, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

COLIN BRAKE IMAGERY
Thanks for the advice! I'll work on updating those later to be more wide-screeny. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 21:18, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

U started the page on Dimaggio from his credit on The Abominable Snowmen. If instead do simply stating that that uncredited people need corroboration, you would check the appropriate pages, you would find the corroroboration. Boblipton talk to me 18:57, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

The reaosn I provided no proof of Antoninin Dimaggio's participation in The Abominable Snowmen is that I did not assert he appeared there. Instead, I built Dimaggio's page by clicking on the red (indicating no page exists) link of his name in The Abominable Snowmen. With few exceptions -- and this is not one of them -- my editing is based on the assumption that the information contained in pages is correct. If Dimaggio's page should be removed, then what is the information doing on the ''Abominable Snowmen;; page?Boblipton talk to me 21:44, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Following your logic, we should delete every. Boblipton talk to me 22:01, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

I have no choice but to edit from the assumption that facts as listed are correct. I do not have a complete set of DWM and TV Action, so I have no way of fact-checking the assertions about comic strips. I have never seen an episode of K9, so I have no "real" idea if anything shown on the WIKI pages about them is true. I must and do rely upon others to manage those aspects. With a few exceptions -- the plot sections of Let's Kill Hitler and The Wedding of River Song come to mind -- what I try to do, as I state in my profile page is edit "in the interest of correct spelling, punctuation, consistency and clarity".... and I might add, but deliberately don't, coherence -- hence my editing of, among others.

Given my limitations, I must rely on others to do the fact checking. It is my definite opinion that if you think that Antonin DiMaggio should not have a page because you place no credence in his listing in the uncredited cast section of The Abominable Snowmen, then you should simply remove the page and also his mention on the Abominable Snowmen page. If you will not do the latter, then you have no business doing the former. Given the logic of hyperlinking, a "fact" stated in one location is a fact everywhere and "pages" are merely a technique for arranging those facts in coherent form.

Given the limitations of any human being, we all must rely on the observations of others. Clearly, some sources are not reliable, but the assumption that the facts in this WIKI are unsuitable sources for other articles in this wiki leads to a recursive line of reasoning that is unsupportable -- it means that nothing is true unless you personally have checked it, an overwhelming job that you can be reasonably assumed to be incapable of; therefore everything must be deleted unless you have written it yourself. The whole operation of this WIKI becomes ridiculous -- which it is, but on another level of logic and knowledge, one that doesn't interests us and has nothing to do with this particular discussion.

Someday I may work up the interest to look through the dvds with the pop-up information and voiced commentaries. I consider those valid sources -- although the bad spelling and homophones in the subtitles makes me a tad nervous.Boblipton talk to me 22:45, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Font
Hey there, I noticed that this wiki uses custom font and you were the one who added them. I have something similar at Prototype Wiki but in a crude method.. XD Anyway, could you perhaps explain (if you have the time) how to use the font classes? As I have been trying to use Verdana font. Thank you.. --Vatsa ( talk • Gentek ) 14:09, April 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I saw the css before contacting you. I did not understand how to define the font family in order to have Verdana.

font-family: 'Book Antiqua','Calisto MT','Lucida Bright',Georgia,'DejaVu Serif',serif; What am I supposed to replace in this? --Vatsa ( talk • Gentek ) 15:47, April 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Most of the css is self taught hence I need help sometimes. I was confused with the Preset font IDs section with all the custom classes/ids. Thanks for the help.. :) --Vatsa ( talk • Gentek ) 17:48, April 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Appreciate the detailed information. Thank you.. --Vatsa ( talk • Gentek ) 15:33, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Kennedy
Ah, eye, sorry. I'll cut the section down (If anything, off). Yes, I have read the book, and I'd say it's the best Doctor Who book ive ever read. I had already started on chapter one, but had taken a short break. I just am taking my time, as I don't want to really mess it up, so I am glancing at the book now and again. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:33, April 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 03:48, April 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hey, I know that usually we write plot descriptions n the present tense, but sense, but that's kinda because that's usually how books are written, isn't it? So sense Who Killed Kennedy was written in the past tense, should the plot description be written that way too? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 18:55, April 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh. Okay. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 19:13, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

More confusing disambiguation
My gut instinct is to just "leave it", but it seems the polite thing to do to ask.

Is referring to the Time Lord founder as simply Omega a break from dab when there's a humanised Dalek by that name?

Relatedly, is dabing someone (Dalek) (namely, Alpha, Beta and Omega needless confusion with the Rob Shearman episode? -- Tybort (talk page) 13:06, April 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry to intrude, but I noticed the same issue with Shada and Shada (book) (Dosen't exist yet, is from The Professor, the Queen and the Bookshop (comic story)) OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 17:14, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

DWC achievements
The DWC achievements are finished are are currently sitting over at TARDIS test waiting for your double-checking. They are named after the narrators of DWC, in order of how many they narrate (i.e. The first one is the 'Noel Clarke Award' since he does one, and the last one is the 'Anthony Head Award' since he does the most.) MM/ Want to talk? 13:15, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Display queries and more

 * Hi, as requested I've included some screenshots to highlight display issues with Firefox working on Vista. Note the article title as shown in full screen (btw have only just noticed this on the Target novelisation pages),and also the overcrowding of the text "Or enter full page title ..." on the dotted line (unless its meant to be like that) on the third pic.


 * Have taken your advice and contacted wiki re: not getting message updates flagging up
 * Think I finally got the hang of the comic strip infobox. The important point I couldn't get my head around is that by default "(comic story)" is written but doesn't show on the page in the previous / next !! Was just wondering where a list of comic stories are given do they need to be shown as title (comic story)|title But please just keep an eye on me for the next couple of days - which I'm sure you will :)
 * RE scanned covers too small. I'm happy to revisit them - but might take a while. I seem to remember that when I started on here someone told me off for the pictures being too large so I scaled them down further. Will have to fish them out and rescan - hence the expected time delay. The Librarian talk to me 17:34, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Special Editions
Can we have a category for episodes that have Special EDitions? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 23:14, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Graphic novel titles
I've been trying to edit some graphic novel pages and their infoboxes aren't showing their names, only. Usually I can fiddle around with the code through trial and error, but I just can't seem to find what the problem is. Can you help me out? Memnarc talk to me 01:32, April 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * You didn't see any graphic novel contributions because I tried making code changes and then looked at the preview to see if the changes had worked. Since they hadn't, I guess I didn't get around to editing any. But whatever you did seems to have done the trick! Memnarc talk to me 02:12, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Further page-name-issues.
Shouldn't Kroton be Kroton (species) due to Kroton (Cyberman)? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:59, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

User:99.116.249.117
In May 2011 I edited the Nyder page to remove what I thought was some sort of fan fiction user "99.116.249.117" had mistakenly added. However having just looked at some equally baseless contributions to entries such as Kate Yates and Thalek I now think 9.116.249.117 was a vandal. Zerinza talk to me 18:04, April 5, 2012 (UTC)

Open search results in new tab
Very irritating. --Tangerineduel / talk 06:00, April 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually more like it makes the site annoying and impossible to use. --Tangerineduel / talk 06:04, April 6, 2012 (UTC)
 * And depending on how Firefox is configured it will block some instances. It seems to allow pages but has issues with opening categories. --Tangerineduel / talk 06:07, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Jaguar
I made the first edit almost a month ago. The whole felid/predator connection completely slipped my mind. Plus I made the edit right before I was going to bed, so my mind was not at its sharpest. Rest assured, I was not trying to game the system. Memnarc talk to me 21:53, April 6, 2012 (UTC)

Second opinion
Can I get you opinion on this image?

I have stated to User:OttselSpy25 that it's blurry/fuzzy and extremely unclear but he claims there is nothing wrong with it. What's your opinion? MM/ Want to talk? 21:33, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

The "Doctor Which?" stories.
Going by what happened on The Unheard Voice's recent edits, I have to ask which is right. The "it was reprinted with the Fourth Doctor, ergo it's the Fourth Doctor story" categorisation or the "we're only counting the original format" one? -- Tybort (talk page) 10:57, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

PICTURES AND LISTS
Ooooohhh, thanks, I understand now. Yeah, I agree, most of that could just be rewritten into a "history" section. Hay, thanks for restoring my Varga plant plant image, I was having trouble discerning why it was deleted myself. I was horrified when I discovered the old pic was not only a publicity shot but a picture including the actor's legs before being cropped! OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 20:40, April 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * speaking of which, where did we get further images from this story when no clips or telesnaps exist? Unless one of our editors is planning to sell a few tapes to the BBC... OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 20:42, April 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well I know, but we seem to have images at Gordon Lowery and Jeff Garvey... Although I suppose that the latter could come from Galaxy 4.. No, that doesn't have telesnaps either... OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 21:06, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Game of Rassilon
Due you know which admin is in charge of doing the MA badges in the Game of Rassilon? The first of them, "I Know Who Grant Markahm Is" has misspelt "Markham". -- Tybort (talk page) 22:44, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

New-ish display query
RE: Editing issue I had/have (with Firefox on Windows vista not in full screen). This may be a top line issue I'm having noticed it again tonight but it might because I was editing a section rather than a page - and when I 've been tidying up that what frustrates me.
 * If you remember there is a point on the line that the highlighted text to be edited is undone and I have to highlight, click left on the line and scroll across to the right hand side. Screengrabs below:

...and please try to keep any reply it simple you've been getting a bit techie/ 'enthusiastic' lately :) Thanks The Librarian talk to me 01:36, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

For curiosity's sakes
This probably won't lead to anything, as I currently don't upload screenshots nor in my opinion know the best way of cropping Printscreens, but I'd like to know the answer anyway. Is the "tight focus" on Tardis:Guide to images recommended for species as well? And if not, what's the ideal shot of an Infobox Species image? -- Tybort (talk page) 13:54, April 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Wondering more about the specific placement of the species in the infobox images more than the dimensions (which are important too, of course). Though I suppose it's case-by-case depending on how prominent the species is.
 * Would, say, Minotaur (species) have different rules from the only known member of said species we see in The God Complex? -- Tybort (talk page) 14:32, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

manual of style
Dear Czechout,

I read your note and went over to the manual of style and started editing it in an effort to make it less impenetrable, recasting it from the Third Person omniscient mumbling to itself sort of way in which it is currently written, reworked a couple of paragraphs into a more involving voice in which I addressed the reader.... and then reverted everything. Because philosophically I disagree with everything about this so-called Manual of Style. It is not about style, it is about making sure the forms are filled out in a No.2 pencil and that the answers are within the lines, whether they are right or not. I got kicked off for three days because I think that the chapter separation should be three spaces rather than two and this latest foofaraw is because I removed one chapter head, stuck the text from the second in the previous chapter  and didn't change one of the letters in the chapter head to a capital. This is not writing, this is not editing,  This is someone who demands respect for being a nit.

When this occurred to me, I realized that any effort on my part to "fix" the unending morass that is the "Manual of Style", which is concerned not with style but with the proper number of spaces between chapters and which letters in a title should be capitalized, and how we should be grateful to people who double our work load by writing us letters insisting we correct them instead of just correcting them themselves, would simply state that I agree with this sort of buttheaded pettifoggery. Besides, if I rewrote so that it was easy to read and understand, then what would Mimi-mitch find to do to assert his brief authority?

Nonetheless, you ask me to do something with the manual of style and it would be rude not to oblige. Here is my rewrite. Feel free to use it:

1: The articles are written in the hope that some one will read them. Try to keep your writing as simple, brief, accurate and straightforward as possible.

2: The TARDIS wiki tries to use British English. Please bear this in mind when composing or editing a contribution.

3: It will quickly become apparent that articles have standard formats. Please use these formats as much as possible.

4: In the heat of dispute over such world-shaking issues as how to spell a made-up word or whether an optional comma should be used or not, we will bare our teeth. In our calmer moments, we are grateful for your well-meaning help, even though we almost certainly will forget to say it then and will be actively ungrateful when in a foul mood. Please accept our gratitude now and use it to bandage the wounds we inflict later.

That should be enough of a style guide for anyone who actually cares for the actual writing of anything. It may seem brief to some. I am reminded of the story of Rabbi Hillel -- or maybe it will Akiba or Tarphon -- who was approached by a wiseacre. "Oh, rabbi,"" said the wiseacre, "Teach me the Torah while I stand on one foot." He lifted one foot off the ground and the rabbi said "Whatever is hateful to you, do to no man. The rest is commentary," and walked off. In a pinch, Article 1 of my four rules of the Manual of Style is sufficient.Boblipton talk to me 18:58, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

I feel for you. However, I think you've gotten trapped in the process. I realize that this is something of a political issue, but there is a mindset that says if 9500 words gets us 95% there, then all we have to do is add a few more words.... and the whole process becomes snarled. Yes, I do consider you a good writer. When you do a major rewrite of a piece, like the article on The Doctor or the intro to River Song, I can see exactly what you're doing and my editing is almost invariably limited to emphasis or the odd typo that afflicts all of us. I disagree with your statement that all that's needed is to find the perfect word for the Manual of Style. The more words you add, the more foreboding a piece of writing is.

1: When I was using the New York Times Manual of Style as a stringer for the Easton Express in the 1970s, I seem to recall it was about eight pages long, about half of that white space. It discussed issues like the point at which one ceased to use a written number and switched to numerals -- 11 as I recall -- and similar minutiae to make the editor's life easier. More than that, as a writer, I had backups in the form of an editor, someone who would make sure the style matched the house style within broad limits mostly concerned with the fact that space for stories was always at a premium. These were people who specialized in checking articles against those eight pages and making sure they matched. The TARDIS manual of style as it is constituted is too long and too arbitrary for me to remember what is in it. Sorry, but there's a big difference between saying "These style choices are a compromise between space limitations, accuracy and clarity" and the choices evinced in the TARDIS MOS -- which are stated upfront as arbitrary, and hence inherently unreasonable under secondary definitions of "arbitrary."

2: I've edited some real messes here. The one I'm proudest of is, which I did by first mechanically putting each sentence into grammatically correct form, then figuring out what the right word was, then figuring out what the actual plot of the master's life was and rearranging the sections to give it a straightforward flow. I couldn't do any of it in a single sitting, it just made me crazy. Dealing with the MOS, I am confronted with the fact that every sentence is grammatically correct, but the entire work seems to hold the hidden assumption that good writing is no more than a set of arbitrary rules mechanically enforced. I hate that thought. It's wrong, wrong wrong. Writing -- and editing -- is about sensible rules intelligently applied with a clear goal in mind -- in my case, remembering that someone may actually feel a need to read this glop and trying to make it as easy, interesting and amusing as I can. In addition, since I can usually see what needs to be done, I can either do it myself, or tell someone else how it should be done and why. Guess which is easier and guess which I tend to do? Guess how I view people who think that the right way to edit a piece is to look up a rule and tell some one else to do the work.

3: I truly see no way into the MOS piece. I think I understand why I can't handle it, even if I agreed with your thesis that we need to give kids arbitrary rules. In some ways it reminds me of about, oh, thirty-five years ago when I gave someone an assignment. When he handed it in, I read it and when he asked what I thought about it, I said I didn't care for it. "But I wrote it just the way you told me." "If I had wanted it written the way i told it, I would have written it myself. I wanted it written the way you would write it." So he went out and wrote it his way and surprised us both with how well it turned out.

4: You are already in the MOS piece, so theoretically you should be able to write it differently.... assuming you haven't become trapped in its current format. However, when a good writer writes something, he chooses a particular way to write it, after rejecting another form. Perhaps you should recast it in another form. As I noted, it currently reads like Third Person Omniscient mumbling to itself. Try recasting that. Try addressing the reader directly with a bit of humility.

What have we got currently? "A manual of style is a document created by a publishing entity to ensure that all of its writers are working to a common standard. They are particularly necessary when working in the English language, as there are many different types of written English used throughout the world. A manual of style typically strives to settle matters of debate amongst writers by, in many cases, arbitrarily deciding questions like ...." don't you see how daunting that is? It's a big bronze idol, a book written in Sanskrit that we must all obey... and if we fail to obey it, then mini-mitch --forgive me for riding this hobby horse a bit longer -- will darn us to Heck. Wish I knew Sanskrit.

As an experiment, try making it personal. "I have created the TARDIS Style Manual to help you write and edit articles here so the reader will find what he is looking for quickly, clearly and in a form he can understand. You may feel that some of the rules are arbitrary. I apologize for that, but they are meant to help you. There are many forms of English that are perfectly good. American English, British English -- my particular dialect  -- Indian English, Australian -- they are all perfectly valid. However, to make this WIKI easier on the reader, we have adopted a particular standard, one largely based on educated Standard British English -- my preferred dialect and lucky me!"

Back to general discussion: you may feel that the use of the first person singular is a ridiculous affectation, but we both know that writing is not a mass-produced good, like water tumblers stamped out on a mechanical assembly line staffed by robots. It's one person talking to another and trying to get a point across -- and a bit of humility goes a long way. It may be that in your concentration on how to phrase the rules, you have forgotten your audience.

If I could, I would do it, but for the reasons I have already mentioned I cannot. I cannot get a grasp on the entire piece and given my belief that my work here is largely and properly editing, not writing, I see no way into this piece. I don't know if it has reached a size and age where you've forgotten where you came in on it, but we both know that as you wrote each piece, you worked to see how it fit in with the rest of it. It's a ridiculous amount of work, but I don't see that there's anyone else here capable of doing it. Boblipton talk to me 22:10, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

What do you think my blog posts are about?Boblipton talk to me 23:49, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

A big thank you and a bigger apology...
I am so sorry I've been a bit lapse recently and I do appreciate all your advice - just felt I needed to say that :) I've been trying to play catch up (not just here but with life too) and I know I really should make more of an effort particularly with so many new changes of recent to get a grips with certain stuff - I'm probably not the only one. Its the language of wiki that sometimes throws me (eg "widescreen") not your use of it and like with most 'new stuff' it's often a question of where to begin. I will go back through everything you're advised and hopefully give your head (and fingers) a rest. Btw some of your most useful tips seems to be casually hidden away. Best example - "pipe switching" - didn't mean anything to me lol but now I look back and laugh to myself! Anyway thanks again! The Librarian talk to me 23:51, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

Problems...
I'm having issues with User:JarodMighty and User:Coop3... Their both just... Making weird edits and not obeying some of our rules... I Kinda understand sense one of them is new and the other is nearly new... OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 14:48, April 11, 2012 (UTC)