Talk:The Brenda and Effie Mysteries (series)

Spin-off inclusion
Why have the spin-offs being given pages when there aren’t pages for the actual stories? PoolsideJazz ☎  23:41, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * As only the series itself was ruled out of this Wiki, and many are spin-offs of both Magrs' Doctor Who and Iris Wildthyme series, as well as Brenda and Effie, and they do also contain pre-existing DWU elements, making them worthy of coverage. Epsilon  📯 📂 23:47, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * And fyi, the original Brenda and Effie inclusion debate was severely botched, missing out lots of authorial intent and dozens of legal connections to the DWU. So, when we get some sort of forums back, you can bet that there will be a new inclusion debate, which will be done properly. Epsilon  📯 📂 23:50, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Come again? Could you clarify what you mean when you say
 * the series itself was ruled out of this Wiki
 * Do you mean it was ruled as covered but invalid, or not to be covered, or something else entirely? I'm not quite sure what you mean to say here. Najawin ☎  23:52, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Not to be covered, as at the time, it was decided it was too tenuously connected to the DWU, if you can believe that. Epsilon  📯 📂 23:53, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

The ruling against this series being valid naturally extends to its spin-offs... I don’t understand why they have suddenly been made? PoolsideJazz ☎  23:55, 30 January 2021 (UTC)


 * When was the ruling made? The Fellowship of Ink has existed on this site for going on four years. RadMatter ☎  23:56, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Admin here. Please let me get a word in edgewise without being stuck in edit conflicts, you guys are as fast as Weeping Angels!


 * User:PoolsideJazz, we cover the short stories under discussion for the same reason we cover Kaldor City as a valid source, but not Blake's 7: it's simultaneously a Blake's 7 spin-off and a spin-off of The Robots of Death, and the latter is what we care about. Also, these things aren't labeled as Brenda & Effie Mysteries spin-offs in a merchandising way; the term is here used in the sense of "concepts which debuted in B&E appear in these stories". Neatly-defined family trees of spin-offs isn't really how Magrs works.


 * Also, as Epsilon highlights (albeit perhaps a tad crudely), it is weird and idiosyncratic that the Wiki does not cover the original Brenda & Effie books in some capacity. The original inclusion debate they got was fairly short, rather unenthusiastic from all parties involved, and failed to mention a fact now present on the Wiki page: every book contained a myriad of licensed DWU concepts, rather than Panda merely appearing in one later book. It reached the conclusion, which sort of made sense at the time based on the scarce available evidence, but clearly misguided in hindsight, that this series was not to be covered, any more than Sherlock Holmes.


 * But that is, again, very weird for a series with such a plethora of licensed DWU concept; by all rights we should, at the very least, cover it as invalid. So even though the current setup does make sense by policy, you can, either way expect this anomaly to dissolve in the near future, in all likelihood. Really, the procedural issue that we need a new inclusion debate, and the lack of a Forum to have it in, are the only reasons we haven't already redeemed the Brenda & Effie books; as soon as we have a venue in which to officially take that decision, I expect they'll be a no-brainer for coverage, and most probably covered as valid, at that. Scrooge MacDuck ☎  23:57, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Since there is some confusion on this point, I will spell the current situation more clearly: the existing policy is that The Brenda and Effie Mysteries, specifically, is not to be covered on this Wiki to any extent greater than the overview page. The ruling does not apply to "the characters of Brenda and Effie", but to the series. This is similar to the situation with Señor 105 or Vienna Salvatori: their solo series have been deemed out of bounds, but new stories which feature Vienna or the Señor alongside other licensed DWU concepts are valid until proven otherwise. Scrooge MacDuck ☎  00:01, 31 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Looking at the connections, I clearly agree they should be covered as valid, but I would like my objection to be noted as a procedural issue to the current contents of the page until that new inclusion debate is issued, preferring it to be closer to the (lol) Vienna page. I fully expect this to be ignored, but I just want my procedural qualms noted. Najawin ☎  00:02, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * From your comment I couldn't really grasp what issue you have with the page, is it the infoboxes? RadMatter ☎  00:03, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Right. It's a little too verbose and gets too close to "actual coverage masquerading as non coverage". Obviously it should be covered, but I don't like the procedure. #KantLife. Najawin ☎  00:06, 31 January 2021 (UTC)