Talk:The War King

Merge with DWM Master
Fans believe that the Master from (COMIC: The Glorious Dead) is the incarnation of the Master that would later become the War King, should this be added to the article, should it be left on overall Master page or should a seperate article be created? Revanvolatrelundar 17:57, August 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * I thought that was still the "Bruce" master, though admittedly it doesn't look like him, perhaps he was aged by that body slowly degenerating.88.111.141.34 17:37, August 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * no its not he bruce master, the master was given a new body by Esareth the controller of the Glory Revanvolatrelundar 18:50, August 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Which fans? What kinda source you got for this claim?   "Fans believe" is probably the worst way to start a sentence on this wiki.  What fans believe, even if you could cite them, is irrelevant.  What matters is what's in the actual text. Nothing should be done with this "information".  04:58:13 Mon 13 Jun 2011

This page was protected because of plans to delete it. Four years later it still hasn't been and won't be deleted. Could this page be unprotected? The Champion of Time   ☎  20:38, April 6, 2016 (UTC)
 * Seconded. --Pluto2 (talk) 07:44, January 22, 2017 (UTC)
 * Thirded. It's five sentences long, and one of them is blatantly untrue (the "became highest ranking lawman while at the Academy"). Pls unlock NateBumber ☎  19:41, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Merger with the War King
This article should be merged with War King. In The Infinity Doctors, Sontar points out to the Doctor that the Citadel was once a fortress.


 * ‘The Citadel, like many of the Capitol’s buildings, is larger on the inside than the outside.’
 * ‘Who lives out here?’ Sontar asked, indicating the city with a sweep of his claw.
 * ‘Ancillary staff and their families. Technicians, artisans, cleaners, artists, engineers, cooks, musicians. Everyone the Time Lords need to support them and their Citadel. Although truth be told the Citadel is probably self-sufficient.’
 * ‘It was once a fortress,’ Sontar stated.
 * The Doctor turned to him, puzzled. ‘I don’t think so.’
 * ‘Of course it was,’ the General laughed. ‘Look at the thickness of the walls, the buttresses and battlements. I should say it was a stronghold built to withstand a siege. No need to be coy about your race’s past with me, Doctor.’
 * ‘I’m not. You are clearly right, it’s just that it never occurred to me before.’

In the same story, as this article would tell you, the Magistrate is described as the Doctor's best, oldest friend, as well as one of the President's most trusted advisors.

Later, in The Taking of Planet 5, the War King says


 * ‘I remember when the aliens came to the Capitol, back before you were even woven,’ said the President. ‘The old general – I forget his name – was shown around the Capitol by a friend of mine. He said this place was built for war, and to our ears it seemed a ridiculous notion. The whole idea of war was inconceivable to us back then, though even then there were occasional clues as to the coming conflict. But we ignored them, dismissed them. We never thought our people would become like the old general and his troops, breeding our people purely to be efficient killers, weaving violence into every cell of their bodies. But we did, in the end, and the Capitol became a fortress once more.’

The general whose name the War King can't remember is Sontar, his troops are obviously the Sontarans, and his "old friend" is the Doctor (The Infinity Doctors universe). It's not some coincidence; Simon Bucher-Jones has confirmed that it was an intentional connection. Furthermore, The Book of the War gives backstory to the War King that includes him being a close advisor to the President. It seems kinda clear to me that this connection is more than speculation and that these pages should be merged. Thoughts? NateBumber ☎  20:03, May 5, 2017 (UTC)

Accepted. With recent developments in the Faction Paradox range referring to the War King's once being a Magistrate its time we got this underway. --Revan\Talk 10:23, February 27, 2019 (UTC)


 * Just a suggestion for future editors, who might perhaps read this in some utopian future in which all the forms of the Master have their own page, but I think we were a bit rash in merging the Magistrate with the War King. The two characters are absolutely the same, and that connection is absolutely valid, but I feel it obscures our coverage of the Magistrate to have them on the same page as the War King. Simply put, The Infinity Doctors can be interpreted as (simultaneously) taking place in the Doctor's past, future, or/and sideways, and the ending of the Magistrate's plot thread in the book should also be covered as one of the Master's origin stories. All the same, it is perfectly accurate to cover that information here in the way it is covered as a later part of the Master's life (which has textual evidence), but it would be nice if there was a main Magistrate page which didn't pigeonhole him into the one interpretation.


 * This is further confused by the fact that we have clear links that the Magistrate is the Man with the Rosette (The Gallifrey Chronicles describes the Man identically to how the Magistrate is described). It's also accurate to say that the Magistrate is the War King (the evidence is in the above merging post). However, I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that the War King is the Man with the Rosette, there simply isn't that connection anywhere other than the Magistrate and it's very possible that the Man with the Rosette and the War King are two "competing" fates of the Magistrate from different authors (a third competing fate being "the Master", haha, if "The Master" isn't in the character's past).


 * Additionally (and obviously), we should maybe consider acknowledging that the Magistrate is the Master. If the character's demeanor, name, and use of the Tissue Compression Eliminator wasn't enough, the Magistrate's backstory with visiting Low Town very intentionally corresponds with the Master's backstory of visiting Low Town in PROSE: The Eight Doctors, which I think is direct and undeniable evidence the two are the same character. However, as the wiki's Master page currently stands with its very flawed chronological nature, I'm not sure it could handle the Magistrate, so all this is just a suggestion for the inevitable future, in which all the Master's identities and forms have their own pages. Well, or perhaps this could be used as evidence to do just that. :P CoT     ?  23:06, 12 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree with you completely, and I'll confess that my proposal many moons ago resulted from a simple calculation that the combination of the War King with the Magistrate was more feasible than the combination of either with the Master, under the current abysmal setup of The Master. If we're afforded a less unambiguously linear setup for the constellation of Master- and Master-adjacent pages in the future, I would fully support a re-division of this page, in the same way that I would never want The Doctor (Alien Bodies) merged with The Doctor (The Infinity Doctors).


 * (All that said, those fates are nonlinear/"competing" only if it isn't the case that the Master first survives the War as a renegade, makes a serious promise in the Kingdom of Beasts to save the universe since the Doctor isn't, and then finds a way to travel back and become the Magistrate/War King... How else could he have found out so much about the War ahead of time? Speculation abounds...) – n8 (☎) 14:07, 13 January 2021 (UTC)