User talk:SarahJaneFan

Page moves
Please take note that only admin are allowed to move pages, as non-admins are not capable of doing a proper rename.

is there for an admin to move all the links and rename it. As you had it, links were not changed, and Tanya still redirected to Tanya (The Sound of Drums). We don't want that; Tanya should be a disambiguation page. You are absolutely encouraged to use or  yourself to suggest a rename. 22:26, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Images
Hi! Please make sure you read all of the wiki's image policies, which you can find at Thread:148148. The images you've uploaded had to be deleted for violating several policies. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  02:36, November 1, 2016 (UTC) I didn't actually mean to have them there, so I've obviously failed at getting rid of them properly SarahJaneFan ☎  15:45, November 1, 2016 (UTC)

Orr
I'm sorry to say I haven't listened to the audios yet. And I cannot see any information mentioned on Orr (audio story). Note that the title of the story alone does not warrant a dab term for Orr as the story is out-of-universe and, hence, superseded by the in-universe character. Could you provide more information on the story page for me to determine the right course of actions. Amorkuz ☎  19:23, August 13, 2017 (UTC)

While Orr is the title of a story it's also the name of a new supporting character. Orr is introduced in the story of the same name and then formally becomes a member of Torchwood at the end of the following story. This is the reason I suggested a rename for the comic character. --SarahJaneFan ☎  10:24, August 15, 2017 (UTC)


 * All done. Thanks for pointing out and explaining. Note that the other Orr, to the best of my understanding first appears in Orr (audio story) and, hence, by T:DAB should have a somewhat funny name Orr (Orr).


 * To be honest, I never thought that Orr (Revolutions of Terror) would ever require a dab term.


 * One more thing: it is more efficient to leave a message to me on my talk page. Don't be surprised if I'm not checking talk pages of every single person I ever talked to :) Amorkuz ☎  23:31, August 15, 2017 (UTC)

Images
Reminding you to make yourself familiar with our image policies at Tardis:Image use policy. Most of your recent uploads have been deleted for violating multiple rules. Shambala108 ☎  00:34, August 18, 2017 (UTC)

Timeline discussion
Hello. I wanted to talk about the timeline changes to avoid any possible trouble that such conversations have brought to me countless times before. I'd like to start this by saying that this is not an example of me being territorial about this subject, as I have been accused of before, nor am I attempting to bully you into following my way blindly, again something I've been accursed of in the past. I just want to have a civil and friendly debate about the timeline changes, mainly to "currently unplaced" section.

When I first started trying to organise the timeline pages to appease my need for order, I created the "currently unplaced" sections for the new releases that I could not purchase, so that, once enough information could be gathered by myself or other users, a placement could be deduced from the information uncovered. After all, all stories have to occur at some point in the Doctor's life, and all their placements are up to conjecture, with the exception of the TV stories, unless its the Seventh Doctor.

Reevaluating things after seeing how you used them, I've renamed the subheading as "awaiting placement" and made a new "currently unplaced" subheading for the story entries that can't have enough evidence for placement for the time being. I hope my decision doesn't cause any grief between us, as that is the last thing I want with my edits.

Thank you for your time, and I hope to hear from you on my TalkPage soon. Sincerely, BananaClownMan ☎  18:40, September 23, 2018 (UTC)

No problem. Glad we could come to a peaceful resolution, and I look forward to working with you in the future.BananaClownMan ☎  23:39, October 4, 2018 (UTC)

Herald-i-Ng
I am still on the first "God" story, so you may well be right. However, this is something to be discussed at Talk:Ng by collecting all information. The name "The Herald" is at least the self description. That is how she called herself to Ro-Jedda when they were in adjacent cells. Please put all relevant info from God Among Us 1 at Ng's talk page. I will read it when I finish listening. Hopefully, other users also pipe in. Note that I did not put a speedy rename. This is not a clear case, not by far. Thus, a discussion is really in order. Amorkuz ☎  04:49, October 25, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for correcting my memory. Amorkuz ☎  21:50, November 8, 2018 (UTC)

TARDIS interior
You properly best off talking to User:LegoK9 about that. Their something of an interior expert.

But what you say woukld help explain why the Seventh Doctor has too origins for the movie console.BananaClownMan ☎  17:19, November 22, 2018 (UTC)

Sixth Doctor Timeline
I understand your rational for thinking that Chaos is not the story where the Doctor leaves Peri in New York, but I think your placement also makes very little sense. Peri is shown to be homesick in the story, which is consistent with the reason why the Doctor left her in New York to begin with. I think this should probably be something that is discussed in the article's talk page if we can't resolve this here, because that particular placement of the story was used for the longest time, based off of Eyespider's timeline. –Nahald ☎  07:40, April 18, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for getting in touch, that’s probably the better thing to do than edit war, so I really should have extended you the same courtesy immediately. I guess all I can do is explain to you my viewpoint.

Well for a start, Eyespider is far from an reliable resource to use, particularly for a Timeline that’s trying to be as accurate as possible and use a little headcanon and fan theory as possible. That’s not to say I think I’m right and Eyespider is wrong about timelines, I jus don’t think we should be so reliant on his website.

Especially considering that most of his own work is based on the reference guide, which openly admits that the placement for this story is arbitrary and the only hint as to its placement is that Peri’s homesick. On top of that, the Doctor violently kills a homeless man in this story which would suggest that this takes place around the time of The Two Doctors.

Although again, it’s still fairly arbitrary in terms of placement, but works where I placed it as part of a character arc surrounding the Doctor’s more violent tendencies following The Two Doctors whereas the Reference Guide/Eyespider slot is just reaching to place it before the DWM comic and give Peri a departure story.

And on top of that Eyespider has about one story I think between The Reaping and CHAOS. To me it’s difficult to believe that she would feel homesickness and want to return to 1980s America so soon after The Reaping. - SarahJaneFan ☎  09:11, April 18, 2019 (UTC)


 * Yes but as the timeline currently is, Peri is in New York as it is shown in the comics. I think it's reasonable for her to want some space so she can grieve for her mother. -Nahald ☎  07:33, April 19, 2019 (UTC)

Page moves
Hi reminding you that as the first message on this page says, only admins are permitted to move pages on this wiki thanks Shambala108 ☎  03:20, April 25, 2019 (UTC)

UNIT Timeline
Hey, I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the Theory:Timeline - UNIT article has become a bit of a mess the past few days. Someone recently added a note that the Incursions stories take place in 2019, which doesn't fit in with its placement at all. Are we completely sure these stories all take place before The Day of the Doctor? –Nahald ☎  02:48, May 10, 2019 (UTC)
 * Thing is, a couple months ago everything from Shutdown onward was said to take place post "Day of the Doctor." What exactly was it that changed this? –Nahald ☎  00:13, May 12, 2019 (UTC)

The Beast of Babylon
Hello, friend.

I was going to do this in the edit description, but I think I'll get all the information I need to explain this by leaving it here, plus I gives me another chance the reevaluate the information myself.

User:Revanvolatrelundar and I once had a length discussion about the placement of The Beast of Babylon in the Ninth Doctor's life, and I shall leave the important bits from that conversation here.


 * Hi there. I'm continuing this conversation here to avoid an edit war. The Beast of Babylon frames all its story around Rose, and only works with Rose being a very recent memory for the Doctor. The whole story involves the Doctor having second thoughts on the decision to leave Rose, one he has only just made. With reference to the "recently calibrated" line, Vampire Science has the Eighth Doctor saying that he spent three years after leaving Sam at a Greenpeace rally getting used to his new body. It's a very vague term that is used. If it was "having only just regenerated", then fine, but it leaves plenty of wiggle room for more stories. -- Revan\Talk 11:49, March 8, 2018 (UTC)


 * I agree that it is tiresome to find common ground with Nine's timeline, its the whole "look at the ears" line for me. Paints Rose as coming earlier than it might have. Speaking of the ears line, the evidence I found that made me put Rose so early was actually from The Promise. I quote, "The Doctor is aware of the size of his ears, setting this after Rose. He has still only just regenerated." If he was just getting a first look at them in Rose, as heavily implied in the scene, then how can he know about not liking them in The Promise is it happened first? Plus, like Tegan and Five arguing over saving Adric, its possible that Nine rethought his pitch to Rose many times after doing it, like when you rethink how you should have done something after doing it. Honestly, first chance I get, I'm gonna write an official Ninth Doctor short story that mentions him rethinking about going back to Rose as he feels "she will, or maybe has, played a part in an important moment in his life". -- BananaClownMan ☎  00:33, March 12, 2018 (UTC)


 * I get the whole Rose argument. At the time it was a little nod that he might have just recently regenerated, but that piece of wiggle room is being really exploited by almost every new Ninth Doctor story we get these days. My personal view on it is that if I had big ears I'd be commenting on them almost every time I look in a mirror. The Doctor's eccentric like that, so it makes sense to me. The Promise definately takes place before Rose. At the start of the Ninth Doctor segment the Twelfth Doctor tells Bill that he had "hadn't long regenerated" when he met Plex. He also says that he was "running from an old face; from an old voice in my head". Without a doubt its not long after he's regenerated. On the subject of the ears reference in The Promise, Plex says that his new face doesn't suit him, and he replies: "neither do the ears, but we work with what we have." To me it kind of suits the notion of him having a bit of a complex about them. It's certainly used as an ongoing joke in Series 1. The short stories we've had over the last couple of years which have him on solo adventures don't mention any kind of information to place them. But what you said about Rose making an impact on him has actually gone a way for me to have an idea on where to place them. If he had met Rose then certainly he would be thinking about her, maybe even referencing her. Giving that there's no mention at all to her tells me that he hasn't met her at all yet, thus placing it before Rose. -- Revan\Talk 13:17, March 12, 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi, sorry this reply took so long, been wrapped up in my university finals for the past few weeks. I have looked further into what I like to call the "Ears conspiracy"; When the Doctor first looks in Rosa's mirror, he does more than comment on his ears. He full on says it "could have been worse", alluding to a recent regeneration that he hasn't seen the end result from. And, in The Beast of Babylon, he only starts talking about Rose when telling Ali about his trip to Earth from Rose, and when saying Ali has traits similar to her. Granted, he brings the whole thing up at random after showing the planet to her, so perhaps it's still a recent thing for him. But, he still talks about "when [he] met Rose, [he]'d only just regenerated", "still finding [his] feet", with a mindset of "new body, new start, new companion". To be honest, I was kind'a hoping to not find anything when I was looking into this; I like the theory and solution you and I came up with together. But, facts like these can't be ignored, otherwise we'd be divulging into the taboo that is speculation and theorising by selecting what print we choose to follow. -- BananaClownMan ☎  00:45, April 3, 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi again. The ears subject is very ambiguous, hence all the debates going on in fandom, including ours. I know that when RTD wrote Rose, he had planned for it to be one, if not the first of Nine's adventures, hence the line about the ears. Rose was thirteen years ago now (Jeez, I fell old), and both Titan and Big Finish have pushed several stories into the gap before Rose, and I very much doubt they'll stop. I'm going to bring you back to The Promise, where Nine makes a comment in his opening page about his ears. It's his first comment when asked about his new body, so clearly he has an issue with it. When the War Doctor regenerates he even mentions it, so how his new ears turned out are clearly something the Doctor has an ongoing resentment with. No matter how many times I read over those pages in The Beast of Babylon, I still can't see how anything more than even one adventure can be squeezed in there after he leaves Rose. The way things look to me is that the guys at Big Finish and Titan are trying to retcon the Ninth Doctors life so we can see more of his adventures. I'm fine with that, he's one of my favourite Doctors, but it does mean that preconceptions over that very dubious line in Rose are being stepped around a bit. It's nothing that Big Finish haven't done before: in The Caves of Androzani, Peri seems very new to the TARDIS, but Big Finish managed to get in dozens of adventures and even a second companion before then! -- Revan\Talk 17:27, April 3, 2018 (UTC)


 * It would seem the novelisation of The Day of the Doctor has brought an end to our debate. According to User:NateBumber, the freshly regenerated Ninth Doctor smashed all the TARDIS mirrors due to a vow he took to never find out what face he was wearing, apparently to atone for killing the children of Gallifrey. With this knowledge, we now know why he said "could have been worse" when accidently looking at Rose's mirror; he's emotionally recovered enough to not be bothered about catching an accidental glimpse, and analyse his features. I think you're right about the "ears complex"; he's probably felt them enough to dislike them, and getting a good look at them did not changed his opinion. -- BananaClownMan ☎  20:46, April 5, 2018 (UTC)


 * You know, the novelisation of Rose might just of given us a rare moment in debating that scarcely happens; the chance for both parties to be right. I believed that Rose happened early due to the Ninth Doctor's comments about how it "could have been worse" when looking in a mirror, and authorial intend behind the line. You believed that Rose happened later due to, and I quote, "The Beast of Babylon [framing] all its story around [the ending of] Rose". In the novelization, it is mentioned that there was a twelve week gap between these two incidences, which does not seem to contradict the television story and making it valid by the wiki's rules. If my math is right, that leaves 84 days maximum unaccounted for. I propose that at the tail end of his "early days", he meets Rose at Hendrik's, gets the Auton arm and then leaves, believing his work done. After his twelve weeks of "solitary exploits" (that can include the anthology short stories and cameo appearances), he returns to London again for whatever reason, properly the TARDIS bringing him to "where [he] needed to be" I guess. -- BananaClownMan  ☎  21:26, April 20, 2018 (UTC)


 * It's a very odd way to resolve it, but I'll take it!!! Maybe Big Finish will be brave enough to make a whole series set before Rose with him dodging mirrors. One can dream! :P It's been good debating it, anyway, its healthy every now and again. :) --Revan\Talk 16:29, April 6, 2018 (UTC)

Okay, so, on reflection, the conversation went in a different direction, so I'll just rewrite what I used as justification on the edit description that prompted User:Revanvolatrelundar to start debating with me. During The Beast of Babylon, the Doctor recalls being "newly regenerated" when he met Rose in Rose, and that he was in the mindset of "new body, new companion" when he made his pitch to her at the end of Rose, and that, by the time he meets li, he's become "calibrated to [his] new body", implying that some time has passed. Admittedly, he also states that not a lot of time could have, but there is 'wiggle room' there, in that he never says specifically that he started tracking the Starman right after fighting the Auton invasion, just that he was on Earth getting rejected by Rose before he tracked the Starman, and only brings it up when seeing the planet. If anything, this could indicate that he hasn't visted Earth since then. BananaClownMan ☎  18:44, June 17, 2019 (UTC)

Timeline responses
Just gonna answer both in one section.

For the Tenth Doctor timeline, most the companion placements were initially based on real world release dates, and then looked further into. For in-universe evidence, after following into a slump that leaves him unwilling to leave the TARDIS, the Doctor is helped by Rose the cat through A Rose by Any Other Name into accepting his need to find a new companion, possibly aso helped by Donna's message from The Time of My Life. After some alone travels, he takes on Heather, and the two deal with the fallout of the Reality bomb scheme in The Aquarius Condition, which given how the Russell T Davies followed a year-by-year approach would indicate it happens in real time for the Doctor. After parting ways with Wolfie, Heather and Giselle, something happens to the Doctor off-screen. Maybe he tok on someone else and they parted badly, or maybe he just got tired of goodbyes, but something causes the Doctor swear off companions. It's never clarified in-universe that it was Donna's fate that caused this decision.

However, as shown in Judgement of the Judoon, The Bog Warrior and Prisoner of the Daleks, the Doctor begins second guessing this decision, and takes on Gabby as a companion with very little prompting. He does not comment on Donna being his last companion, Gabby just comes to that conclusion based on, at best, minimum evidence. Since Titan has put the series on hiatus, and it looks like it may be canceled altogether soon, the last we see of the Doctor in this series is him losing Gabby, making it another companionship that didn't end well, and perhaps explaining him distancing himself from Majenta.

After Majenta resurrecting Majenta from death, thus another companionship that didn't end well, the Doctor could be talking about her to Emily and Matthew, before he goes through the events of The Waters of Mars and begins delaying his fate.

That being said, your theory has good points, but it seems unlikely that the Doctor would take on companions after The Waters of Mars, since he's more focused on avoiding his fate and recovering from his "Time Lord Victorious" moment.

As for Bullet Time, your looking at things from the big-picture, out of universe we see events. Say one day you went shopping because you thought the shop was closing down indefinitely and had an emotional goodbye with the staff, then a few days later you learnt the shop was closing down for one day and that you could shop there again. In hindsight, you did not need to say goodbye to anyone. Such is the case for the Bullet Time "sidestep"; the Doctor did not know what was coming after Lungburrow and took the "sidesteps" because he could do it then. The fact he had more adventures afterwards is not entirely relevant to him.BananaClownMan ☎  00:32, June 18, 2019 (UTC)

Sorry this reply too so long, I've been moving house. The problem with Rose the Cat is that her story is considered a valid entry by this wiki's standard, and thus she is part of the quote-unquote "Doctor Who canon". In all honestly, if Rose the Cat was removed from the equation, then it would be believable for Heather to follow on from Gabby, but the fact remains that the Doctor leaves the Cat to look for a new companion, something he is not looking for when he meets the "2009 companions".

Something I also realized while looking into this, is that Heather's fate is eerily similar to Donna's fate; Caught up in an enemy's trap intended for the Doctor, circumstances force the Doctor to leave them behind because to travel would him again would be harmful to them. For Donna, it's the mindwipe; for Heather, it's the Mozhtratta leaving her defenseless to Artron energy. In a way, you could say that it was the combination of Donna and Heather's forced retirement that prompted to the Doctor to swear off companions, especially if they happened so close together, like how Fury got his paranoiac planning after being duped by the Skrull Coulson, having his world view rocked by alien life and Goose's "betrayal" in Captain Marvel.BananaClownMan ☎  14:36, July 12, 2019 (UTC)

Torchwood Timeline
Hey SarahJaneFan,

I have recently noticed, like me, you edit Torchwood timeline a lot. I'm searching for assistance in the placement of We All Go Through scenes. You up for a challenge? Anyone else? UltimateWhovian7/Talk 18:42, June 20, 2019 (UTC)

Sorted it to how it most likely looks. Obviously the dreams and alternate realities are a pickle but that's Torchwood, isn't it? UltimateWhovian7/Talk 23:53, June 20, 2019 (UTC)

Dead Media
Hello, there. I just wanted to leave an explanation for why i added the Dead Media note to the Twelfth Doctor timeline page: A preview extract was released during the livestream for Big Finish's 20th anniversary, and, since it was live, I could not rewatch it, and I am in no fancial situation to purchase the audio upon release. So, when a hint to its placement was mentioned, I quickly left a note using my phone to the timeline page for later use.BananaClownMan ☎  13:47, July 20, 2019 (UTC)


 * Oh, there is a policy against such things on the main wiki that the forums are more fluid with, and I was being somewhat hypocritical in my edit. I knew someone would remove it, but the fact that it existed meant I could go into the history and reclaim it once the audio had had its proper release.BananaClownMan ☎  14:54, July 20, 2019 (UTC)

Hey
just letting you know that Doctor Who isn't canon and from now on only Juliet Bravo will be accepted on this Wikia.

This is a joke, for anyone intent on banning me if anyone other than the intended recipient reads.

--MeddlerOfTime | Founder (talk) 20:27, September 26, 2019 (UTC)

Beevers' Master
Something that crossed my mind while rereading the Master timeline; how can we know for certain that Beevers' Master from Animal Instinct is the Thirteenth Master before The Keeper of Traken, or the "Final Master" after Mastermind.BananaClownMan ☎  12:32, October 12, 2019 (UTC)

Main Range
Yes, I was the one who added that link! As User:OncomingStorm12th has now more fully elaborated on, that section is for actors who are credited on the covers of which there has been none released that feature the three in question. --Borisashton ☎  22:47, November 30, 2019 (UTC)

re:An Apology and Explanation
I thank you for you apology, and I want to assure you that I hold no hard feeling for your response on the timeline pages.

I too dislike "fighting" with others on the wiki, though I do not see it as such. I see the relationship wiki users have here as akin to a debate team; sometimes users agree on a subject, sometimes they disagree. The important thing is that things never get personnel when debating happens.

As for the old song and dance on my "ownership" of the timeline pages, while is true that I do get protective of them due to all the work I put into them all those years ago, I only feel I "own" them as much as any editor "owns" a page that they contributed a lot too; sometimes I agree with an edit, sometime I don't and I take action, but I've always tried my best to find common ground with another editor instead of disagree with them outright as to avoid edit wars, which I find to a be a waste of time and recourses, as well as poor sportsmanship.

When it comes to my feelings towards you, I actually hold you in high regard. You've helped unlocked secrets of the timeline that slipped my mind and, with that, new ways of making the timeline for coherent than I could. I do so look forward to seeing the edits you've made when I get a notification. True, sometimes there are disagreements, but adversity is often key to finding a better way of looking at something.

I do hope this puts whatever worries you had to rest, and that we can continue to find ways to make the timeline theories grow and appease those like me with my autism that grave having an order to follow when updating character biographies.BananaClownMan ☎  00:11, February 10, 2020 (UTC)

Re: Second Doctor timeline
Not at all, thanks for showing your support. You and BananaClownMan are the the most active editors of the Doctor timeline pages (and probably the rest too) so it's good to know I'm not alone in my thinking. Hopefully we'll get a response from Banana soon :p Danochy ☎  02:58, March 14, 2020 (UTC)

If BananaClownMan continues to ignore the talk page, I say we just go ahead and discuss changes in the hope he'll join in eventually. Maybe doing the overhaul ourselves will prompt him to engage. Regardless, there are really two separate issues to discuss: 1. whether timelines in general should have a default of release order where no other qualifiers exist, and 2. the reassessment of the Second Doctor's timeline. The latter of which I don't think is too bad, but there is a major issue in Zoe's era where large numbers of stories are stuffed into gaps which really only have space for a few at most. (also The Two Doctors should be included twice) Danochy ☎  22:42, March 23, 2020 (UTC)

I definitely agree with you on that last point, that allows us to delve more into the "theory" side of the timeline which it was originally intended for. On another note, Banana did respond earlier, and in response I've given a summary of what we've discussed here in the hopes of finally starting a proper conversation. Danochy ☎  04:55, March 24, 2020 (UTC)

So sorry, I completely forgot to get back to you! I'm thinking MrThermomanPreacher and WaltK as other active editors that could take part? And I've seen ToyStoryFan123 editing the pages more receently, although that's usually with newly released/discovered stories. I decided to start us off at Theory talk:Timey-wimey detector and Theory talk:Timeline - Second Doctor. I left the relationship between timeline and main space for you to start off (also note the thoughts given on that matter by BananaClownMan on Theory Talk:Timeline - Second Doctor. Best wishes, Danochy ☎  00:47, April 3, 2020 (UTC)

Sorry it's taken so long for me to finally get around to this, but I've made some responses at both Theory talk:Timey-wimey detector and at Theory talk:Timeline - Second Doctor. I became busy at the time, and then I admit it slipped my mind until now. But the responses are there, so I'm eager to hear your thoughts.

I hope you're still coping well under lockdown. Danochy ☎  06:00, May 11, 2020 (UTC)

Re-season 19 audios
Thanks for the explanation - yeah your placement makes sense. I've been doing Season 19 recently (I guess you have too?) and I had a clear idea of where Black Orchid should be, but I really should have waited until I'd heard the remaining audios, so sorry for that.

I don't think it's entirely necessary for the events Black Orchid to be referring to a different London event, it just depends on how long the Main Range audios take place over, and where they go. Nyssa was pretty vague on when the London adventure occurred. "Just" doesn't have to mean the most recent event.

Anyway, on that note I should probably make a response to the various threads we have on the go, just been a bit busy lately, sorry. Thanks again, Danochy ☎  01:18, April 10, 2020 (UTC)

Check on
Hello, User:SarahJaneFan. I just wanted to stop by and check how you were doing in these trying times of self-isolation?BananaClownMan ☎  09:53, April 16, 2020 (UTC)

Re: Seven timeline
Hi! Thanks for the message. I've read it through, and I find myself agreeing for the most part. That said, I haven't read any of the VNAs yet (although certainly plan to at some point) so don't have a lot I can add to the matter.

Moving to the "by one account" format on in a theory page/timeline for such large sections is quite a drastic move, however, and so I'd been keen to hear from many voices before any changes are made. I'll try to make a response soon (I have several things due soon, so it may be a few days away) but please, feel free to send me a reminder if I haven't responded in a week. Danochy ☎  09:19, May 14, 2020 (UTC)


 * Oh yes, thanks. It's a bit late now, but I'll leave a tab open so I remember to respond to it all in the morning. Danochy ☎  10:47, May 19, 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi, just letting you know I've replied to a few things at all three locations. Danochy ☎  03:11, May 20, 2020 (UTC)