Talk:Time Vortex

Something Wrong?
I don't know if it's just me, but the new intro and accompanying theme for 2010 says to me that there's something wrong.

It looks for all intents and purposes like the Time Vortex is attacking the TARDIS. The cloudy appearance and then the fire... that's more than just blue and red colouring for moving back and forth through time.

Does anyone else think that something is amiss with the Vortex itself? If a TARDIS is alive, could the Vortex be, too? If so, is it attacking The Doctor?

93.97.228.186 23:07, May 24, 2010 (UTC)Chris

I think the lightning bolts that are striking the TARDIS are the cracks.

My theory is that, due to the Time Lords demise, and without their maintinance, the Vortex is collapsing. Unhari 22:40, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup
I've added a cleanup tag. There's quite a bit of grammatical errors, and some speculation as well. The Thirteenth Doctor 15:34, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

Guys, you do know there is a difference between the title sequence and the Time Vortex? The title sequence may change, and the special effect used to represent the Time Vortex may change, but the Time Vortex does not change. Its just a representation, the Vortex is hyperdimensional, its not actually on fire.

Purple Vortex?
So where does the purple Time Vortex from "The Power of Three" fit in? -- Bold  Clone  20:59, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

A Good Man Goes to War

 * According to the Doctor, Time Lords evolved and seemingly gained their abilities from prolonged exposure to the vortex over "billions of years". It has also been suggested that even short exposure to the vortex could change a human embryo into a human/Time Lord hybrid, were they conceived in the vortex or a vessel travelling through the vortex (i.e. the TARDIS). (TV: A Good Man Goes to War)

A Good Man is not fresh in my mind, but is it an actual hybrid, or just a human gaining exposure to traits Time Lords also evolved? Plus, again, need to refresh, but it wasn't the conception on its own that did it, was it? There was meddling from the Silence as well. -- Tybort (talk page) 22:47, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Appearance
That section's a bit of a mess, mixing real-world and in-universe info and/or terminology, unsourced... How do we deal with the Time Vortex's appearance changing throughout the Doctor's life? As a time traveller, it's not as if that's even chronological. And keep in mind that we're shown the First Doctor taking his very first trip in The Name of the Doctor... and it's the series 7B Vortex.

I think this is very much like regeneration throughout the ages. The effects change (a lot, sometimes), but it's still meant to be the same thing. Did the Vortex ever really change appearance?

Another thing that needs to be looked at is the difference between Vortexes seen on-screen, and those in title sequences. The only real example of Eleven's first Vortex appearing within the narrative itself is The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe, and — I just checked — there's no lightning in it, only the storm clouds. A lot of what's written on that particular Vortex is based off of the dramatic version in the title sequence. --SOTO ☎ 21:05, October 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just double-checking The Parting of the Ways. Not only is it a clear example of "red is into the future" AND "blue is into the past", but there is no discernable difference between what the "tunnel"'s colour looks like during the Ninth Doctor's title sequence. That said, I feel that the difference between the Ninth and Tenth Doctor version, Wardrobe and Hide is considerably more than just "red and blue-coloured tunnels", especially considering Wardrobe has the appearance of cloud or fog, while the ones before and after seem a lot more abstract. The Ninth Doctor version in particular, doesn't really have a defined "tunnel" effect; the TARDIS just seems to move forwards and backwards.


 * Good point made about The Name of the Doctor, though. Maybe a better way around this is specifying the exact trips in the stories (or whether it's something like the Untempered Schism). -- Tybort (talk page) 01:05, October 7, 2013 (UTC)

I noticed something. Comparing both the title sequences and the in-universe instances of Parting and Tooth and Claw, while it's the same general effect, the Tenth Doctor version is actually a much brighter blue, while the Ninth Doctor's is more muted and practically purple. I'm guessing that's something to do with the image grading or something, but still. -- Tybort (talk page) 23:54, October 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * To answer "did the vortex change appearance", I'm going to have to go with "not as dramatic as the regeneration effect, but still notably different", considering the TV movie's swirl of more varying but not quite as bright colours along with a very visible field of stars in the effect shot (essentially making the tunnel come across as translucent). I mean, compare this McCoy/McGann-era "effect" with this, from the Eccleston era. The colour's similar, but the actual intensity of the waves and swishes (for lack of a better term) are completely different. It's very hard to capture in a still image, but while Eccleston/Tennant/Smith is either blue OR red, late-McCoy/McGann seems to change at a moment's notice. -- Tybort (talk page) 02:20, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

Red vs Blue shift:
Red vs Blue shift: "described above (red and blue), are also scientifically valid: the frequency of light from an object that is accelerating 'away' from the observer shifts towards the 'blue' end of the visible-light spectrum ('blue shift)', while an object accelerating towards the observer will shift to the 'red' end ('red shift')."

If I am not mistaken, this is wrong. A red shift is caused by an object moving away from the reference (the wave being stretched towards low freq/energy) while a blue shift is due to the wave being compressed (being higher energy withing a cycle).

Yeah I agree. This is the opposite of real redshift / blueshift.

TV movie
Removed:


 * All TARDISes had a direct link to the vortex through the Eye of Harmony. (TV: Doctor Who)

When was this said? I only recall the word "TARDIS" used in the movie to describe the Doctor's ship, and though the Eye does a ton of things in that story, its main description was as a power source, I thought? -- Tybort (talk page) 01:18, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * The Novel of the Film has a very interesting spin on this, actually. Gary Russell just couldn't do a literal translation of the script.
 * {|class=wikitable style=line-height:125%

!TVM !style=width:75%|Novel
 * Grace: What's the Eye of Harmony? Eighth Doctor: It's the power source at the heart of the TARDIS.
 * [The scene at left is also replicated in the book. However the book contains this very interesting exchange, which, since it is not disputed by the script, must be taken as the final word on the matter by this wiki.]
 * [The scene at left is also replicated in the book. However the book contains this very interesting exchange, which, since it is not disputed by the script, must be taken as the final word on the matter by this wiki.]

The Master smiled. ‘It is known as the Eye of Harmony, named after a massive power source back at my home. It powers the TARDIS and everything in it. These beams of Artron energy are what keep everything flowing smoothly, and the Eye is keyed to the biorhythms of both the ship and its... its operator.’
 * }


 * See the clever thing that Russell did there? Named after means that it's not literally the Eye of Harmony. But I suppose Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS has now made this all murky again.  00:23: Fri 21 Feb 2014

Journey seems to link the Eye of Harmony to the source described in The Three Doctors. The "power source" of the TARDIS; a collapsing black hole. This seems to make it very clear that what is identified as "The Eye of Harmony" in the TV Movie is the power source of all TARDISes. Furthermore, suggesting that the Eye of Harmony on Gallifrey is separate from that on the TARDIS because of three words from a novelization that appears to be ignore everywhere else on the Wiki is a bit of a jump in my humble opinion. I'm sure that there are a billion 90s and 2000s sources that suggest otherwise. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 05:23, February 23, 2014 (UTC)


 * To clarify, which "source described in The Three Doctors"? None of the facts on Time Vortex nor Eye of Harmony cite The Three Doctors to anything. I seem to recall that the black hole from The Three Doctors drained power from the Time Lords, but (in spite of what the synopsis on The Three Doctors page says) not that the black hole itself was one of their power sources. Not to mention that that black hole wasn't in the process of being a black hole, it was an already-collapsed black hole, with its singularity passing into a world of anti-matter. I haven't seen The Deadly Assassin or The Invasion of Time, though, so perhaps there's something from there that connects the black hole Omega was trapped in to the power source.


 * Honestly it seems "a bit of a jump" all by itself to suggest that a possible line from The Three Doctors suggests something which is not stated at all about the TV movie version of the Eye in the text of either the TV movie or (going from User:CzechOut's research) the novelisation.


 * To paraphrase T:CITE DEF, a citation goes in because we know that the story cited says this fact, because the editor has checked the original work. I've checked the TV movie DVD and found nothing that connects that source to the statement deleted. CzechOut has checked the text of the novelisation and also come up with nothing. "All TARDISes had a direct link to the vortex through the Eye of Harmony" is not attributable to the text of the tele-movie on its own. Maybe a novel or a Third or Fourth Doctor episode clarifies things, but it's not verifiable to Doctor Who (TV story). I don't even think it's called a black hole or star in the TV movie, but either way, inside the TARDIS cloister room, says, and I quote:

"Here is the Eye of Harmony. The heart of this structure. Everything gets its power from here."


 * I'm sure that you can interpret the term "everything" in several ways, but it's certainly difficult to leap to "every TARDIS", when we don't really see Time Lord society in this story and the only TARDIS on screen is the Doctor's. And playing devil's advocate, assuming there are these billion 90s and 2000s sources saying that the Eye on Gallifrey, the black hole which is not on Gallifrey in The Three Doctors and the collapsing star which liquefies people and turns them into TARDIS time zombies are one and the same, can we possibly find them? -- Tybort (talk page) 13:46, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * I have a feeling you're correct, but I want to do a bit of research for myself to confirm. Shambala108 ☎  19:54, March 12, 2014 (UTC)

Recursive Box Vortex?
I'm curious, when in the story "Vengeance on Varos" does it state that the squares on the TARDIS screens are a representations of the Time Vortex?

The Power of Three
When did any depiction of the Time Vortex appear (not including the credits) in The Power of Three? -- Tybort (talk page) 14:13, December 1, 2015 (UTC)