Howling:Theories on John Hurt

Does anybody have any theories about the role he will play? It's implied he is some kind of version of The Doctor, but the rest is completely open to speculation... 87.102.91.126talk to me 20:14, May 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * I was hoping that it would be a modern incarnation of The Valeyard, but hey, at least he got mentioned by the intelligence. One theory I heard was that he is an incarnation in between the 8th and 9th, the one responsible for ending the time war. --Cadellin ☎  21:00, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not a fan of that theory, because we already know everything we need to about the time war. The Ninth Doctor's personality said it all. Going into more detail would make that aspect of Series 1 less effective. Although I do like the idea of an unknown incarnation that The Doctor would rather forget, if done right that would be a good direction to take the character.

However my theory is that he's a future Doctor. Considering that we saw a lot of The Doctor's past in the episode, I was wondering if we were going to see any of The Doctor's future, and when we saw John Hurt my first thought was that he was a future Doctor. Now I know that Eleven seemed to know something about Hurt, which would imply he is at least a version of The Doctor from the past, but remember The Doctor's line early in the episode about how he knew where his grave was because he's a time traveller - the same thing may apply to him knowing about Hurt. 87.102.91.126talk to me 21:45, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

87, "It's implied he is some kind of version of The Doctor": It's not implied, it's stated outright, both in dialogue & in the credits. The question, of course, is: Which incarnation is he playing?

Cadellin, "an incarnation in between the 8th and 9th, the one responsible for ending the time war": That's possible. However, it's also possible that Hurt is playing the Eighth Doctor & the difference in appearance is because of something that happened during the Time War.

Although I understand 87's fear that giving us more about the Time War might "make that aspect of Series 1 less effective", it all depends on what's revealed & how it's revealed. It easily could diminish what we saw of the Ninth Doctor but it doesn't absolutely have to. I can't work out how to reveal more about the Doctor's part in the Time War without doing damage but that doesn't mean Moffat can't. And, of course, we don't know that that's what he intends to do, anyway.

Right now, we don't have anything that can claim the status of a theory. What we have is guesswork. There's just not enough information for anything more. (I don't mean we should stop guessing; only that we ought to remember that what we're doing is guessing.) --89.242.70.9talk to me 22:31, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Eleven said "He's not The Doctor... But he is me." if I remember correctly. That's a bit too cryptic to be an outight statement.

By the way I've come up with a new theory - does anyone think he might have something to do with the Dream Lord? That would fit well with the line I quoted above, and remember what happened at the end of "Amy's Choice"? 87.102.91.126talk to me 23:06, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Personally, I agree with the "older version of the Eighth" theory. If it were a future version of the Doctor, then the Eleventh's knowledge of the Unknown Doctor is a complete violation of Moffat's spoilers policy (which we see displayed yet again when River Song leaves a new mystery as she disappears). Furthermore, if it were the Valeyard, then I doubt the Unknown would have made the claim that he did things in the name of peace, etc. However, the idea that the Unknown is an aged version of the Eighth (especially if he were the version that created the time lock on the Last Great Time War) makes sense, since the Ninth Doctor was (supposedly) so different from the Eighth Doctor--something evidently changed him for the worse. It's also possible, of course, that the Unknown is a younger version of the First Doctor, before he took the name of "Doctor." Milar Kayne ☎  00:09, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

There is also the possibility of The Valeyard. "The Valeyard, Doctor, is your penultimate reincarnation... Somewhere between your twelfth and thirteenth regeneration" (quote from The Master). It would also be an incarnation of himself which he has already encountered, though as the darker side of him. We are, after all, approaching the Twelfth… I suspect they will make some form of mention of The Valeyard's origins in the least, for continuity's sake.  I am the Lhikan! ( TaLk )  6   3   4  01:05, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

87: "... he is me," is an outright statement. The first bit may be cryptic & it leaves plenty of room for doubt about what kind of version of the Doctor he is but the whole thing is still a clear statement that he's some kind of version of him. It isn't implied, it's said.

Milar Kayne: One argument against the "younger version of the First Doctor" idea is that Hurt's character was described as having broken the promise signified by the name of "Doctor". You can't break a promise without first having made that promise. Another argument against it is that the destruction of Gallifrey & the Time Lords is such a huge burden on the Doctor that it's difficult to think of how there could have been something even worse, that early in his life, without it having shown up in his behaviour long before this. Neither argument is overpowering, of course.

Lhikan634: A "supernumary" incarnation (not one of the normal 13), like the Valeyard, is possible -- especially as we know very little about the events of the Time War. At one point, the Tenth Doctor spoke of an "army of Meanwhiles and Never-Weres" in the Time War. Perhaps the "Hurt Doctor" is one of the "Never-Weres" -- a version of the Doctor that would never have existed, except that he was brought into existence in the course of the Time War. --89.242.70.9talk to me 01:16, May 19, 2013 (UTC)