Howling:What would be magic in Doctor Who?

As a general rule, everything in Doctor Who has a "scientific explanation" with magic being some form of hidden technology or unknown science no matter how ludicrous the explanation. But what would count as actual "magic" in the Doctor Who t.v. show? The episodes featuring "The Daemons" and "The Carrionites" were both essentially magical stories with a flimsy science explanation handwave.

"The Daemons" used two definitions of magic. Jo's was "magic is supernatural and impossible to explain" which The Third Doctor dismissed "because he said so." Fairly weak reasoning. The second given by the white witch was magic was "the channeling of psychic energy by use of words and rituals" which the Third Doctor confirmed the Master was doing and that the Master dressing up in a robe and all the chanting was not a show. It was all essentially to summoning and trying to control the Daemon. The Third Doctor insisted it was not magic but the "secret science of the Daemons." When watching the episode, I fail to notice any distinction. It sounded like the two were describing the exact same thing yet naming it different things. The Third Doctor was merely being his obtuse, arrogant self because he did not like the m-word. The Master was using by all accounts "ceremonial/ritual magic" only to summon an alien instead of a demon. Historically, magic was thought to have consistent rules and be a branch of science dealing with things like summoning. So why wouldn't this be magic?

In "The Carrionties" the Doctor at first calls it witchcraft and the Carrionites themselves call it magic within the episode. I cannot tell any real difference between the idea of witchcraft or sorcery and what the Carrionites did. The "linguistic-science" handwave sounded like it was for people who absolutely did not want magic in Doctor Who so the writers could at least claim it was still loosely science fiction with no "real magic" involved.

Finally, you have the Ancient Lights from the "Secrets of the Stars" episode of the Sarah Jane Adventures. Within the episode it was confirmed (to the best of the episode's ability) that the Ancient Lights used astrology to break the laws of the current universe. Violating the physical laws of the universe is one of the commonly accepted definitions of magic and astrology itself is classified as "magic."

So at what point does one throw out Clark's Third Law and call something magic? In "The Satan Pit" the Doctor stated he did not believe spells or rituals were real, but isn't that what the science of the Daemons and the Carrionites essential is? Spells and rituals?

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Talking of Clark's Third Law, it features (slightly misquoted) in dialogue in "Battlefield", Part 3:
 * DOCTOR: What is Clarke's law?
 * ACE: Any advanced form of technology is indistinguishable from magic.
 * DOCTOR: Well, the reverse is true.
 * ACE: Any advanced form of magic is indistinguishable?
 * (They arrive at the chamber with the knight and the sword in the stone.)
 * ACE: From technology.

Magic, described as such, also features in "Silver Nemesis", Part 1, though without the reference to Clark's Third Law. --89.243.205.101talk to me 17:41, May 29, 2015 (UTC)