Howling:River knows the Doctor's name because...?

... she actually made him do it as she said, or the Doctor was just one step ahead of her (again) and told her his name in anticipation to the events on Trenzalore? 186.182.10.13talk to me 05:12, June 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, like the nights they spent together in the Stormcage Prison, the viewers are not privy to every encounter that has happened between The Doctor and River. We may or may not see the situation where The Doctor tells River his name. I think that sometimes people forget that most of what happens in the Doctor's timeline happens off-screen. We just see bits of the action. Badwolff ☎  20:03, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

Because she knew his name the first time he met her, in Silence in the Library, he knows he has to tell her, though she doesn't. But that is why it made such a good "lie" when he said that he had just told her his name when they got married. We knew that she learned it some time, and there is plenty of suggestion that he would only tell her if they were to marry. Who would have thought that back at the Library, he was about to say that he would only tell her his name if he wanted her to be able to get into his tomb? I assumed once the Fall of Trenzalore story came up, that this was where she would learn it. But that assumed River would actually be on Trenzalore. It turned out much more complicated than that, and she apparently already knew.Phil Stone ☎  06:34, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

We saw a glipmse of the Doctor's last night with River, when it got mixed up with his first night with River. I think it was on that last night that he told her, because by that time, in his timeline, he knew when and how she would use it. Whosethebestwho ☎  06:04, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

A related question is Who buried the Doctor? And would that person have needed his name to seal the crypt (in which case it was likely River)? Andbeonetraveler ☎  15:02, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Good point, Andbeonetraveler. That would suggest that the Doctor witnessed River's death & River very probably witnessed the Doctor's death. I can see that idea appealing to Moffat. --2.96.27.7talk to me 19:52, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

I wonder if The Doctor can still open the Tardis with a snap of his fingers, as he did in the Library after River said she saw him do it. And can the living Doctor open the Tomb of the dead Doctor this way. In a sense, he himself is again the key.Phil Stone ☎  05:59, June 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * He probably can still open the doors by snapping, but the door that was locked with his name wasn't the door that his snaps open. The "name-locked" door opened up to a staircase that lead up to the console, whereas the blue front doors lead directly to the console. Ensephylon ☎  06:05, June 16, 2013 (UTC)

I resume this topic because I'd like to purpose my theory. So: if the Doctor wasn't lying about the cot, and if those symbols were his name... that's when River Song could have learnt his secret. (By that time, the Doctor knew she was able to read and write Gallifreyan). Not that romantic I'd hoped. Am I crazy? Steven Moffat is not that crazy, for sure. --HarveyWallbanger ☎  19:52, August 15, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) The Doctor didn't confess his name during the marriage, as he was supposed to do
 * 2) After the Time War, River Song is one of the few (two?) people in the universe still able to read Gallifreyan
 * 3) The Doctor said that the cot he put the little Melody in was his own, and it had Gallifreyan symbols carved on its side.
 * 4) An adult River Song saw the Doctor's cot in the end of the battle of Demons Run

I don't think she really reacted to reading his name in a way that I think she would have done if she didn't already know it. Besides, the whole Silence arc is building up to what appears to be some sort of revelation about his name, plus Moffat would definitely want to make a event out of it. But I do think she still read it there, just not for the first time. Gallifrey102 ☎  15:21, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * Good :) I'm the first who hopes and would love "some sort of revelation", an "event", a good ending for the Silence arc... I keep my fingers crossed. HarveyWallbanger ☎  17:16, August 17, 2013 (UTC)

At the conclusion of "A Good Man..." River says something like, "there's your cot, haven't seen that in a while." So she implies that she has seen it before, and demonstrates this by recognizing it for what it is.

In "The Name..." he seems to be saying the name he was given had no significance, it is the name he chose which matters. The script (and title) seem to validate this view by having that name being silently spoken by River apparently to maintain suspense, practically so that the GI can only get in this time, and artistically to avoid distracting us from what really matters. If we heard a name we would be talking about it and trying to figure out it's significance, when (as far as The Doctor/Moffet is concerned) it has none.

Most people understood in "The Name of The Doctor," that "...The Doctor," was the subject, whereas alternatively it can be the object, as in "a bowl of pudding," or "the color of blue." The title is telling us it is about that name, "The Doctor", and why it is important. Because it is a promise that he made, and which the John Hurt Doctor broke.Phil Stone ☎  03:01, August 20, 2013 (UTC)