Talk:Cyberman

To-Do List of articles to split off the main

 * Variants (photos/pictures, which stories each variants appeared in, "personality", voices)


 * History (also, a list of all Cyber-stories with known dates)


 * List of appeareances (fill in gaps in the list and give own separate page)

--***Stardizzy*** 11:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Reference
There's a good referance book that describes the whole history of the cybermen, not incorporating Silver Nemesis - "CYBERMEN" by David Banks (ISBN 0-352-32738-3). Smith. 18:29, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Cyberman terminology
At the time of writing this there are some errors in captioning on photos on the Cyberman page. To avoid misinterpretation and/or some kind of edit war I will try and explain this as clearly as possible.


 * Issue 1 : Use of photo with term "Original Cyberman / Cybermen"


 * Issue 2 : Description of photos of various Cyberman designs caption as being Mark ...

Issue 1 : Use of photo with term "Original Cyberman / Cybermen"

Earlier today the infobox photo had an Invasion Cyberman (Mk. IV - see below) with the caption "Original Cyberman". I altered this to read "Cyberman (Our Universe)" on the grounds that the Mk. IV from the Invasion may well be an early Cyberman, but it is not the "original" design (Mk. I from the Tenth Planet). This was rapidly changed back (I think by an un-named editor). Later on the photo was changed to show some Silver Nemesis Cybermen (Mk. VII) but retaining the title "Original Cybermen".

To avoid pointlesslsy confusing people I feel that one of two changes should be made. Either :

A) Use the term "Original Cyberman/men" and show a Mk 1 Tenth Planet design

Or

B) Use whatever other Cyberman design is desired but change the term "Original" to "Classic" / "Early" / "This Universe" etc.

The reason for this is simple; "Original" basically means "First" or "Earliest" and any design other than that of the 10th Planet is not an "Original" Cyberman. If anyone thinks otherwise please discuss.

'''Issue 2 : Naming types of Cyberman design. '''

There are several ways in which a person could categorise Cybermen in terms of Type 1,2,3 etc.

They could be categorised by :

a) Probable chronological development within a Cyberman Time Line

b) Historical dating of stories

c) The order in which the Cybermen appeared on screen (which is thus also the Doctor's Time Line)

Personally I think naming Cyberman designs following the order in which the Doctor encountered them / the stories were shown on screen makes the most sense as at least this deals with some degree of certainty whereas probable placement of designs within a theoertical Cyber time line is largely fan speculation and opinion. Just as importantly, it probably also makes the most sense to a casual reader or a new fan.

If we go with categorising the Cybermen by design changes in the order in which the Doctor encontered them we then have :

Mk I = Tenth Planet

Mk II = Moonbase / Tomb of the Cybermen

Mk III = Wheel in Space

Mk IV = Invasion

Mk V = Revenge of the Cybermen

Mk VI = Earthshock, 5 Doctors & Attack of the Cybermen (unless anyone wishes to subdivide further?)

Mk VII = Silver Nemesis (Only a minor change in many ways)

Currently the page has a photo of an Invasion type (Mk IV) Cyberman marked as being MK II, Silver Nemesis (Mk VII) Cybermen unmarked by type, another Invasion Cyberman (Mk IV) refered to as a Mk III (twice), a Earthshock/5 Doctors/Attack type (Mk VII) tagged as being Mk IV (twice), some un-categorised Moonbase (Mk II) Cybermen, a Tomb Cyberman correctly tagged as Mk II, and some Revenge Cybermen (Mk VI) marked as Mk III. Personally I regard most of these as being mistakes for the reasons given above but even if some other categorisation method is being used it is not being applies consistently e.g. both Invasion and Tomb Cybermen being tagged as Mk II.

I propose edit the Cyberman entry in accordance with the above categorisation method for Cyberman types, and to change the term "Original" Cyberman to "Classic Cyberman". If anyone objects to this or wishes to change things back, please explain the reasoning rather than just editing.

Mr Pepperpot 00:54, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Cybermen or Cybusmen in Blood of the Cybermen
I remeoved this text :

"Cybermen will appear again in Blood of the Cyberman, as part of episode 2 of Doctor Who The Adventures games starring Matt Smith and Karen Gillan. This marks 21 years since the last time the original cybermen have appeared in Doctor Who.Cybermen will appear again in Blood of the Cyberman, as part of episode 2 of Doctor Who The Adventures games starring Matt Smith and Karen Gillan. This marks 21 years since the last time the original cybermen have appeared in Doctor Who.Cybermen will appear again in Blood of the Cyberman, as part of episode 2 of Doctor Who The Adventures games starring Matt Smith and Karen Gillan. This marks 21 years since the last time the original cybermen have appeared in Doctor Who."

I removed this on the grounds the game has not yet been released, thus far we don't know if the Cybermen in the game are from this universe or are Pete's World cybermen, but that all pre-release images suggest they are modified Cybus design cybermen. I think it would be better to wait a few days until the game is released before making any such statements.

In addition, the original Cybermen have not appeared ON TV since Silver Nemesis, but they have appeared in other media, including the BBC broadcast 8th Dr audios, so the statement is rather less than clear.

Mr Pepperpot 16:15, June 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * So, Blood of the Cybermen is out, and we still don't have any answers. In The Pandorica Opens we learn that the Cybus Cybermen somehow still got into our universe, and are now a sea-faring race. The game doesn't make it clear exactly which the Doctor is dealing with.--Samoth 16:14, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Space faring....... not see faring Fan555 17:45, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I propose a merge. In The Next Doctor, the walls between Mondas and Pete's Cybermen was blurred and Blood of the Cybermen and The Pabdorica Opens have certainly strengthened that becasue we don't know which version they are. I'm australian, so I havent played Blood yet, but from what Ive read, it isnt said that they're Mondas Cybermen. The fine line that used to be drawn between the two species has been cut up. This is why i think they should be merged. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 03:48, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just stupid to label them Mondasian Cybermen when they're unconfirmed...the logo is a potential indication but it is not an evidence...cybermats are definitely NOT evidence, since the Cybus Cybermen's technology advances significantly everytime we meet them...these cybermen should definitely be placed on both articles as unconfirmed if not merging the articles as Bigredrabbit said above...the Cybus Cybermen could very well have been the 'ancestors' of Mondasian Cybermen or any other wacky explanations...but listing unconfirmed things as facts is just plain stupid...203.168.176.42 16:58, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just stupid to label them Mondasian Cybermen when they're unconfirmed...the logo is a potential indication but it is not an evidence...cybermats are definitely NOT evidence, since the Cybus Cybermen's technology advances significantly everytime we meet them...these cybermen should definitely be placed on both articles as unconfirmed if not merging the articles as Bigredrabbit said above...the Cybus Cybermen could very well have been the 'ancestors' of Mondasian Cybermen or any other wacky explanations...but listing unconfirmed things as facts is just plain stupid...203.168.176.42 16:58, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just stupid to label them Mondasian Cybermen when they're unconfirmed...the logo is a potential indication but it is not an evidence...cybermats are definitely NOT evidence, since the Cybus Cybermen's technology advances significantly everytime we meet them...these cybermen should definitely be placed on both articles as unconfirmed if not merging the articles as Bigredrabbit said above...the Cybus Cybermen could very well have been the 'ancestors' of Mondasian Cybermen or any other wacky explanations...but listing unconfirmed things as facts is just plain stupid...203.168.176.42 16:58, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Overview page?
How about making the main Cyberman article an overview page about all kinds of cybermen, their differences and similarities, while having the current article as a more specific article at Cyberman (Mondas) or something like that? I'm not suggesting a full merge - the details would still be in separate articles. Ausir(talk) 21:54, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Mark eight
Shouldn't the Cybermen The Doctor encountered in Pete's World be called mark eight? They were the eighth model that The Doctor encountered. 74.195.213.196 06:32, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

The Cybusmen had nothing to do with these Cybermen. They coincidentally have the same name, and a similar appearence, but they were developed completely seperately, by somebody who had no knowledge of the "real" Cybermen. Icecreamdif 03:39, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

The cybermen from The Pandorica Opens, The Big Bang, Blood of the Cybermen, and A Good Man Goes To War are they cybusmen or origional ones?
 * The ones from A Good Man Goes to War have no Cybus logo and have quite a presence where they are, so I think they might be from this universe. I certainly hope so; the parallels have been around for too long. If we get a confirmation of that, then information about them should be included in this section. ProtoKun7 21:59, June 4, 2011 (UTC)

Cybermen or Cybus Cybermen in Series 6, A Good Man Goes to War
This question really needs to be answered. The Cybermen which appeared during the first two minutes of the episode, had no Cybus logo on their chest, and they had Cyber-ships in space, like our universes ones. Cybermen or Cybus Cybermen? Cortion 14:08, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

It's seems more likely they are Mondasian. TemporalSpleen 14:22, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

I would be inclined to say Mondasian, but we still have no proof of this. --Revan\Talk 14:26, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

I agree there is more evidence that they are Mondasian, but it hasn't been comfirmed, there ment to appear in a later story so lets wait till then and see if that tells us. General MGD 109

I'm actually more inclined to think Cybus Cybermen. Personally, I feel a bit uncomfortable concidering them the original Cybermen - the odds of them being essentially just the same as varients from another universe kind of bugs me. That's my personal thought out the way - now for evidence: as it seems likely that the Cybusmen have recently become a space-faring race (like in The Pandorica Opens) and that they have left their own universe and have now chosen to live in our universe, I think that may explain the lack of logo in A Good Man Goes To War - since they are living in our universe where there is no Cybus, that company name now means nothing to them and so the 'C' logo means nothing at all so they have done away with it. Furthermore, I don't think the show would introduce the original Cybermen back after all these years in a cameo and with so little changed. I'm quite looking forward to the original's return, and I'd be disappointed if it happened it that brief pre-title cameo, and if it hardly introduced anything new. So, I think they are Cybus Cybermen, but if it is not later confirmed, I'll just go on my speculation - as long as it keeps me happy :)TheCoud&#39;veBeenKing 20:11, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

I don't really think the writers are going to address this issue, so its up to us to make a decision over where we're going to place these Cybermen. In my opinion, we should merge Cyberman (Pete's World), Cyberman (Blood of the Cybermen) and Cyberman (Good Man) into Cyberman. The Cybermen and Cybusmen are different in the way the CyberMondasians and CyberNomads are different. They're the same species, just different factions. Bigredrabbit 11:02, June 11, 2011 (UTC)

That would make sense, although I'm not 100% sure about merging all four pages but merging Pete's World, Blood, and Good Man Cybermen together would be a good idea - There's bound to be viewers who don't pay it as much heed as we do and just choose parallel Cybermen anyway. Despite the lack of explanation and continuity, all three of them are essentially the same thing. Three pages of them aren't too necessary (Blood and Good Man could possibly be the same space-faring Cybermen, just a different logo). If the Mondasian Cybermen are reintroduced to the show some day, we'll know that Blood and Good Man are not the Mondasians, thus making things easier around here.90.200.188.9 17:34, June 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Here's a mock-up of a merged Cybermen article (obviously to be expanded): User:Ausir/Cyberman. What do you think of the general idea, though? In this version, the current article would be moved to Cybermen (Mondas) and Cybermen (Pete's World) would also be preserved, but the main "Cyberman" article would encompass all major varieties, with less detail than the more specific articles, instead of being only about the Mondasian version. Ausir(talk) 13:05, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

The Pandorica Opens, A Good Man Goes to War, and Blood of the Cybermen
If it is established that theses are the Mondasian Cyberman, then the ones in The Pandorica Opens (TV story) must also be, as the same cyberships where seen in The Alliances Fleet. Also it is said somewhere in this wiki that the producers where originally going to redesign or modify the cybermen in pandorica, however if we just imaging the C loge doesn't exist on them it all makes more sense. So The Pandorica Opens (TV story), A Good Man Goes to War, and Blood of the Cybermen are Mondasian cybermen not Cybus ones. --{{SUBST:User:Kingofall42/SigReal|{{SUBST:{Predated }}}}.

I completley disagree. Cortion 16:15, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah... completely disagree. "if we just imaging the C loge doesn't exist on them"... or another way to put it... if we go completely against canon? Nah. We don't do that. Not at all. Fact is... we don't know where they originated. And until we do, it's unconfirmed. --The Thirteenth Doctor 16:31, June 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * I also disagree, the proposal is going with speculation when there is quite clearly half a season's worth of information yet to be broadcast. As with the Forum:Can we say River is the little girl? discussion it is best to wait and see what the information brings rather than to try and second guess things and speculate what was meant. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:25, June 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * I have just found something that complicates the matter even further. The Mazes of Time features Cybus Cybermen, but during part of the story, the Doctor visits their cyber tombs on Telos. --Revan\Talk 15:03, June 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that at this point it's pretty much clear that the Cybus and Mondasian Cybermen have somehow merged into one group, despite their separate origins. Ausir(talk) 12:56, June 14, 2011 (UTC)

Seeing at most of this "overview" page is just the contents of the in depth pages, I suggest that this page becomes a disambiguation page or is simply noting the types and their differences. It shouldn't have an infobox, history or any of that as it isn't referring to any set variant. Perhaps it should just have a heading for each type with a brief description and a link to the main page. Skittles the hog-- Talk 10:11, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, the history section should provide links to each variant of Cybermen pages. --Revan\Talk 10:19, June 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not so sure, given that it documents the Cybermen that are of unknown or merged origin as well. I think it should have a summary of history of all variants of Cybermen in general, even if not in as much details as it does now, and with links to the more specific histories. Ausir(talk) 10:27, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

They do not have an intertwined history. Just an unclear one. See this sandbox for a basic outline of my idea. Improve it as you wish. This article is just patches of the other articles without any useful information, bar the section on differences. Skittles the hog-- Talk 10:30, June 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I guess you're right, how about the current version? I only left the history of the "unified" Cybermen in the article. I think it's best to keep all of it here instead of splitting it off to separate articles for the VG ones, for the "Good Man" ones etc. Ausir(talk) 10:37, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

I like it, yeah. I suppose it will be altered over time, but its a great start. Good work. Skittles the hog-- Talk 10:39, June 15, 2011 (UTC)