Howling:Theories about Clara

I've seen a few different far off theories about Clara Oswin Oswald, thought we should have a good place to discuss them. This one was posted by User:Stormystormageddon:

Is it possible that Clara Oswin Oswald might be CAL? User:Stormystormageddon Think about it, they both exist across different time periods, there can be multiple versions of them, and they can create there own reality per say. With Clara it was the crashed spaceship where she made soufflés and for CAL, it was the Library. This is just a theory but any thoughts?

She could be a new version of the Bad Wolf meme, too. I've had some odder thoughts, too. What about you guys? --ComicBookGoddess ☎  17:25, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

I've seen this theory elsewhere and I don't think it's very likely. For starters, CAL is short for Charlotte Abigail Lux, not some combination of Clara, Oswin, and Oswald, like every other one of her forms. I also just think it would be a rubbish story line. CAL's story is over. I don't think they should ruin that beautiful ending by twisting it up with the rest of this Clara mess. Also, that would mean people would start doing the reverse of the whole "every new character could be the Rani" thing by instead going "every old character could be Clara". So, while it's possible that this could happen, I think it's unlikely the showrunners would actually do it, and I personally don't think it would make a very good plot twist. Imamadmad (Contact me) 06:09, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Imamadmad. I'm only surprised that I've not yet encountered anyone suggesting that Clara is the Rani, despite the drastic difference between Clara's apparent reincarnation with the same looks & personality -- & even turn of phrase -- & Time Lord regeneration with different looks & personality. Clara is not only a new character but a new kind of character. --89.242.64.79talk to me 10:58, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

I think she's human, but there's something else that will be going on with her that caused a time splintering. I even saw somebody this week theorise she's the future child of River and the Doctor.--ComicBookGoddess ☎  18:17, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

I suppose it was inevitable that someone would suggest that but it doesn't fit. A child of theirs would be able to regenerate & Clara can't. If she could, she would have done so in The Snowmen.

I think you're right about her being human but with some extras, although we need more information before we can go further with our theories. From the previews of The Bells of Saint John (not the prequel with the swings), it seems we'll learn a bit more tomorrow but I'd be surprised if we learned enough in one episode to solve the mystery.

The prequel with the swings suggests reincarnation. It makes it look as if each Clara is born & grows up normally, without memories of previous lives. That's about all it conveys, however, except a rather forward personality. "Don't talk to strange men" is advice she's unlikely to follow. --89.241.69.66talk to me 20:33, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

From The Bells of Saint John, we have a small part of an answer & more questions.

The part answer is that Clara's computer skills are an unintended gift from the Great Intelligence. Is her (seeming) reincarnation the same? The Great Intelligence is associated with Tibet (The Abominable Snowmen, 1967), as is reincarnation.

A new question is: Who was "the woman in the shop" who gave Clara the TARDIS phone number & told her it was the best helpline "in the universe"? It could be River but it could also be someone else that we haven't yet met. It could even be Clara (disguised so she didn't recognise herself), at a later point in her timeline.

It looks as if the Doctor took young Clara's advice to find somewhere quiet to sit & think. Did the leaf in Clara's book come from the park where they met in the prequel? (I was 89 before but I'm 78 now.) --78.146.187.106talk to me 12:09, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

I just watched the Bells of St John last night, and I thought of a theory. Maybe Futuristic Clara and Modern Clara are the same person, but just in different points in their timeline. There were a lot of hints/clues in the episode that made me think this, such as the mention of 'Nina' (Nina is Futuristic Clara's girlfriend at one point in her timeline), Clara gaining genius computer skills from the Great Intelligence (Futuristic Clara is a genius with computers), and Clara making up the nickname 'Oswin' (Futuristic Clara referred to herself as Oswin). Also, Futuristic Clara seemed rather familiar with the Doctor in Asylum of the Daleks. It wouldn't be surprising if she had met him earlier in her timeline. Chericola ☎  23:41, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

Modern Clara did make up the name "Oswin", though the Doctor had already said it to her when he arrived at the Maitlands' front door (he asked "Clara Oswin Oswald?" & she responded "Just Clara Oswald."). However, Victorian Clara's full name was shown on her gravestone as "Clara Oswin Oswald". We have, of course, no way of knowing if Victorian Clara had computer skills, because there were no computers available for her to use.

Futuristic Clara had access to the information about the Doctor held in the Daleks' pathweb (until she deleted it all) & she showed no sign of recognising his face when she first saw it in Asylum of the Daleks. Also, Futuristic Clara didn't use the name Clara at all, calling herself "Oswin Oswald" only.

The Nina reference in The Bells of Saint John may be significant but that Nina was a friend of Angie Maitland, not of Clara, & that suggests (though it doesn't prove) that that Nina is about Angie's age -- much younger than Clara. Futuristic Clara (Oswin Oswald) spoke of having had a "crush" on Nina, which suggests (though again it doesn't prove) that "her" Nina would have been about the same age as Oswin was or perhaps a bit older.

We still don't have enough information to figure out how these versions of Clara/Oswin are connected -- which is presumably because Moffat doesn't want us to have enough. --78.146.184.78talk to me 16:38, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

I saw this on Facebook the other day and thought it was interesting, especially the part connected with Clara. Is there anything else notable lately in narrative about the number 23 which could be connected to Clara? Has she missed 23 with anything else? Or do you think it's just an in joke for fans because of November? Imamadmad (Contact me) 09:27, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

She also missed 16 in the list of ages. The 23 thing almost certainly is an in joke for fans but it could be more than that, too. The "Doctor Who?" thing is an in joke, too, & is also much more.

Because Clara's computer skills are a result of her temporary upload by the Great Intelligence, I harbour suspicions that her apparent reincarnation might also be connected with the GI. There were comments in The Bells of Saint John about "immortality -- but fatal" & so on. The GI is associated with Tibet (The Abominable Snowmen), which is associated with reincarnation. Additionally, we've had recent references to two other GI stories: The Web of Fear was set in the London Underground in 1967 (map on box in The Snowmen). That incident was one of the things that triggered the formation of UNIT & it involved Colonel (later Brigadier) Lethbridge-Stewart. Kate (Lethbridge-)Stewart, his daughter, was introduced in the spinoff Downtime, the 3rd GI story, which has some similarities to The Bells of Saint John. Downtime had the GI making use of a former companion, Victoria Waterfield, who came from the Victorian era but settled in the 20th century when she left the Doctor. The story also featured both the Brig & Sarah Jane Smith. It looks as if the GI is going to be a recurring adversary for a while, so a connection between it & the mystery of Clara wouldn't be surprising. (I was 89 & then 78 but I'm 2 now.) --2.96.29.117talk to me 11:59, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Now, 23 is popping up a lot, and that's the anniversary, but it could be other things as well. There are a lot of interesting pseudoscientific references and coincidences with 23, just google 23 numerology or 23 enigma. Its not just skipping the age, though. The Doctor "bumped her elbow" with the password, and she went from 23 to 24, which might be significant. VicClara has shown demonstrably more than human control of telepathic fields - Remember, she could melt the snowmen alone, and the telepathic focus of the ice governess - the little girl - couldnt do it herself. The Doctor even thought it was the whole family crying that melted the snow into a rain of tears, but from cinematography we were meant to conclude that it was just Clara's tear. Since Dalekwin was joking about Nina, who knows if she actually dated her equivalent Nina, but surely just having the name around her is significant. I also noticed that in the scene where the Doctor was confronting Dalek Oswin about her delusion, she was using different words, but she was sobbing about not knowing where she was. Speaking of cinematography, whenever this comes to a head, we can be sure that there will be lots of flashing red lights. I actually can't wait for Cold War, not because of Ice Warriors, but because of Clara. And I think we've seen how they'll be using Clara in the narrative - she challenges him in a way that no one, not even River, does. ("I wish that I was more like that.") She makes him think, and reveal more of his thinking, just by being her own incredible enigma. I also think that whatever it is, the Great Intelligence is going to be key in whatever happens. And I find it quite curious that the Doctor didn't recall the name, especially with the subway map involved.

It's interesting to note that Modern Clara has a father and mother that the Doctor has spoken to or seen, and he's seen her as a child, Indicating that this particular Clara has a history like a normal person. We don't have any independent confirmation that the other two have a fully fleshed existence - the publican says VicClara doesn't tell them where she goes and doesn't mention family, and her other employer is even more snowed (Hee hee) and we mostly know Dalekwin's past from her own words - basically we can only confirm that she climbed out of that ship by ladder. She could be some kind of temporal clone or something, created by an event yet to happen in the Doctor's timeline. I suspect that we've been shown the original Clara, now, though.

Oh, and ModClara didn't quite hear that middle bit that the Doctor said (Oswin) and when she asked him to repeat he did his usual change the subject thing. She might have subconsciously remembered it, who knows.--ComicBookGoddess ☎  16:08, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

ComicBookGoddess, "ModClara didn't quite hear that middle bit that the Doctor said (Oswin)": She did hear it when he turned up at the front door. She said, "Just Clara Oswald," (i.e., no middle name) because she'd heard it.

However, if we combine that with some of your other points, we come up with this:


 * 1. Modern Clara is the only one with a family background that we know at all. As you point out, we saw her mother in the prequel & her father spoke to the Doctor in the episode (albeit off screen).


 * 2. Modern Clara originated the phrase "run you clever boy and remember" as a password mnemonic (even though, ironically, she couldn't remember the word "mnemonic").


 * 3. Modern Clara is the one who gained the computer skills (thanks to the Great Intelligence).


 * 4. Modern Clara, probably prompted by the Doctor's earlier use of the name, adopted "Oswin" as a username.


 * 5. Modern Clara was successfully uploaded (at the 2nd attempt) after all this, so if a copy of the uploaded version was somehow retained by the GI (or by something else) despite the downloading near the end of the episode, that copy would have all these features.

This suggests that Modern Clara is the original & that Victorian Clara & Futuristic Oswin are both later incarnations. As I said above, we can't tell whether or not Victorian Clara had computer skills because there was nothing for her to use them on. Modern Clara only became consciously aware of them when something happened (conversation with the Doctor) to draw her attention to them. The skills could have been present in Victorian Clara but unknown to her because nothing happened to make her aware of them.

At a guess (& it is only a guess), I'd say the 3 incarnations we've seen have appeared in reverse order in the character's timeline & the sequence from her point of view is: Clara Oswald (Modern) --> Clara Oswin Oswald (Victorian) --> Oswin Oswald (Futuristic). --2.101.51.235talk to me 21:39, April 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * Clara knew the Doctor said something in the middle, but she didn't catch what. The full passage is, "Just Clara Oswald. What was that bit in the middle?" The Doctor just continues babbling.
 * More important to solving the mystery, the Doctor has intersected with both.
 * Clara doesn't originate it. She's just the one we hear say it. She asks Angie Maitland how she's supposed to remember the password, and then it cuts away to the Doctor, implying that the Maitlands came up with it.
 * No doubt.
 * ...And I'm sure the Daleks who attempted to convert her preferred that mechanical username.
 * Good point, however, as the Doctor used the word soul I suspect there's some other kind of thing that'll need to go on.

I actually don't think that there will end up being a linear sequence to her. Her incarnations have been so isolated, except to the Doctor. I feel time-breaking shenanigans on the way. The two special abilities that she'd shown really strike me as significant. Oooh. Perhaps she's got a little piece of the Intelligence in her. At least it explains why Victoria.--ComicBookGoddess ☎  22:53, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Clara could well have got the phrase from Angie Maitland, rather than inventing it herself. (I'd not spotted the significance of the cut.) If so, that strengthens the case for Modern Clara being the original, because the phrase is then like the computer skills -- something that was given to Modern Clara.

She might not have registered the "Oswin" consciously, when the Doctor said it. Her behaviour when she made up the username suggests she didn't. That same behaviour also suggests it had stayed with her, rather like a subliminal suggestion. Even if she really did make it up, though, & it wasn't prompted (even subconsciously) by the Doctor having said it, "Oswin" is still something that was new to Modern Clara, again like the computer skills.

If the Daleks had preferred the username, that ought to have made her hang on to Clara as part of her human identity. She hung on very tenaciously to all kinds of other things (soufflé-making, for example) to retain her human identity & names are important. In any case, the Daleks would have been more likely to prefer no name at all. We've only ever encountered 4 Daleks who had names: the Cult of Skaro.

"I actually don't think that there will end up being a linear sequence to her." I did say the sequence was only a guess. We certainly don't have enough to go on to decide with any confidence whether or not there's a linear sequence or, if there is, what that sequence is.

We don't even know if there are more incarnations of Clara that we (& the Doctor) have yet to encounter. It's by no means impossible (especially with Moffat in charge) that, after travelling with Modern Clara for a while, the Doctor might run across a fourth Clara -- one who doesn't yet know him. I'm sure Moffat & company would have fun with that situation.

"Perhaps she's got a little piece of the Intelligence in her." Possible. It's also possible that we'll find the situation with Clara/the GI to be similar to the situation with Ace/Fenric -- an old enemy of the Doctor trying to plant a companion on him in order to use that companion (without her knowledge or consent) against him.

"At least it explains why Victoria." It looks as if part of that sentence is missing. At any rate, I don't know what you meant by it, so please clarify. --2.101.51.235talk to me 00:36, April 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just making the point - she didn't consciously get the name from the Doctor, she easily could have come up with it herself. Likewise, it's suggestive that she may not have hit up the spoonhead without the Doctor - although her other skip of 23 says maybe she would have. That means without him, no super computer skill package. Without him, death... Again. She would have died those other two deaths without him too.


 * As for deliberate trying to involve her on the part of GI? Well, we already know that's not true. Simeon only had one place to get the Ice Governess, and Kizlet made her decision without consulting. Rather, I think it's much more likely that it's a decision made by... Well, whoever ends up pulling the strings, maybe even Clara herself... to make sure she's in place to do great things for the Doctor - like remove him from the pathweb and shock him out of his sulk so that the world doesn't end.


 * Heh. Maybe the lady in the shop was Jenny. Heh.


 * I seriously wouldn't put it past Moffat to kill her again, it's pretty much been four times so far, right? She's WAY behind Rory.


 * Sorry, I had to go answer alarm bells and chattering radio. "At least a connection to the Intelligence explains why Victorian Clara had such a clear power over the snow" it would have said. --ComicBookGoddess ☎  02:34, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Something that may be important about Clara? The 16 thing. Count backwards, and that means that she didn't put her age in the book in 2005. The year the show was rebooted. Interesting, at least, put possibly just a simple easter egg. --71.201.148.238talk to me 07:48, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

71: I'd not gone as far as working out which year went with which age but you're right. What's more, if she's 24 now, she was born in 1989, the last year of the classic series. Victorian Clara's birthday was 23 November. We don't yet know Modern Clara's birthday.

ComicBookGoddess: The GI couldn't have planted Modern Clara but that doesn't rule out the trick using a 4th Clara. Although each Clara has died before we've seen another, so far, we can't assume we'll encounter a 4th Clara only after we've seen Modern Clara die. What I had in mind, though I didn't make it clear, was a situation in which the Doctor meets a 4th Clara but doesn't initially realise she's another incarnation because, in his timestream, Modern Clara hasn't yet died. That 4th Clara could be living either in the past or in the future, as far as the calendar is concerned. As the Doctor repeatedly reminded Modern Clara, the TARDIS is a time machine.

As far as we so far know, Jenny doesn't have the phone number of the TARDIS -- but, of course, time travel is involved & she could get the number in a later episode & then go back in time to give it to Clara. The same is true of others, though, including female characters we've not yet met at all. Nonetheless, I still think that River's the most likely culprit.

"At least a connection to the Intelligence explains why Victorian Clara had such a clear power over the snow": Yes, it would explain that. What confused me was that, in the spinoff Downtime, it was Victoria Waterfield who was being used by the GI, so the incomplete sentence might have been going to say something about her.

We've only seen Clara die twice, not 4 times, so she really is only a beginner by Rory's standards. (I've been 78 & 2 but I'm back to 89 now.) --89.240.253.38talk to me 09:29, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

From my first viewing of The Rings of Akhaten, I didn't get much information that seems to bear on the mystery of Clara, although there was more about her family. One possible hint was her suspicion that the TARDIS doesn't like her -- because Clara couldn't get in. That might just be that the doors were locked & Clara didn't know she needed a key. However, it might be more than that. We'll need to wait for any further signs that the TARDIS is uneasy about her, because that could be an indication of a continuing connection to the Great Intelligence (or, indeed, some other adversary). I may, of course, spot other things when I watch the episode again. (I've been 89, 78 & 2 but I'm 92 this time.) --92.17.167.50talk to me 19:54, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, good point. And who was one other person the TARDIS didn't like? Jack. What was he famous for? Not staying dead. And now we have another character who won't stay dead. Connection? Maybe. Imamadmad (Contact me) 07:42, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

That had occurred to me, too. As I say, it's still too early to be sure of it. After all, if she doesn't know she needs a key, Clara might be wrong about the TARDIS not liking her. (I've been 89, 78 & 92 but I'm 2 again now.) --2.101.62.25talk to me 09:05, April 8, 2013 (UTC)

Somebody on Facebook pointed me to this. Rose is coming back for the 50th, so could the Bad Wolf have anything to do with this? Imamadmad (Contact me) 06:24, April 9, 2013 (UTC)