Talk:Revenge of the Cybermen (TV story)

Hi, the picture marked "US VHS 1986 release cover" is from 1983, it is the first UK release from the days when BBC videos were is plastic book cases. Its the only Dr Who video in this type of case. it has the same number as the release in the normal VHS case.

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 * http://www.purpleville.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/rtwebsite.htm
 * In Destiny of the Daleks on 2011-02-24 21:52:42, 404 Not found
 * In Destiny of the Daleks on 2011-11-11 22:30:50, 404 Not found

--CzechBot talk to me 22:57, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Earthshock is set after Revenge - Evidence.
1. The series specifically stated so with the inclusion of 'Revenge' as a flashback in 'Earthshock'. This is more important than the intent at the time 'Revenge' was made, because there is no evidence that it was set before 'Earthshock' at that time (for obvious reasons...and because no date was given in the story).

2. The Doctor notes that the interior of the Ark is different from that of the Ark in 'The Ark In Space'; the interior in 'The Ark In Space' was dated by the Doctor to be from the 29th Century, which has no relevance to the different interior as seen in 'Revenge'- which was in reality the same sets but reorganized, slightly changes and lit differently, but in the context of the show different enough for the Doctor to declare that the events going on happened possibly thousands of years before the ark was sent due to the solar flares!

3. All official guides and material from the time stated that this story was set before 'Earthshock' including Jean-Marc Lofficier's 'The Terrestrial Index', which specifically states that 'Revenge' followed the First Cyberwar and 'Earthshock' was during the start of the Second Cyberwar (the events were partly in revenge for their defeat in the first war). David Cyberleader Banks's 'Cybermen' also takes this view.

4. The costuming makes more sense if 'Revenge' is set before 'Earthshock' as the Cybermen in 'Revenge' are almost the same as in 'The Invasion' (but badly put-together and with awful changes that made them look too clunky...my opinion) whereas those of 'Earthshock' and 'Attack' are clearly upgrades.

In short, there is no reason to believe that 'Revenge' is set before 'Earthshock' and the fact 'Revenge' is featured as a flashback in 'Earthshock' speaks for itself. 90.210.63.227talk to me 21:58, March 26, 2013 (UTC)

It is also clear that he was dating the space station by the interior in 'The Ark In Space' as he specifically is talking about the machine panels whilst dating it to around the 29th or 30th Century. He had not even seen the exterior by this point. Then we get to 'Revenge of The Cyberman' and the Doctor states that the interior is different and specifically dates the story to much early. The setting of 29th/3oth Century for 'Revenge of The Cybermen' is based on a common fan error that ignored the Doctors lines when he first goes to the space station in 'Revenge of The Cybermen', as nothing in the dialogue or story really dates it, we just know that it is set many years before the government decided to have a refit and send it into space as an ark. The dating of this before 'Earthshock' is confirmed by the clips that the Cyberleader shows the Cyberlieutenant in that story, a logical viewing of the costuming (the costumes in 'Revenge of The Cybermen' are more like those in 'The Invasion' than the 'Earthshock' ones) and the fact that most guides from the time set this story before just after the end of the Cyber-War. The events in 'Earthshock' are not the start of the Cyber-War referenced in this story, nor even the end of the Cyber-War. They occur after many years of hiding for the Cybermen, who are now attempting to rebuild but are blocked by a new confederacy of planets. Guides like L'Officier's 'Terrestrial Index' do state it to be the start Second Cyber-War.

Believing this to be set around the 29th or 30th Century is simply a common fan error that isn't supported by any dialogue in either 'The Ark in Space' or this story. Fan mistakes shouldn't have much of a bearing of this wiki's view of the story, though it should be referenced in the Myths section. The Valeyard ☎  10:22, April 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * Could you please clarify whether you're the same person as the IP user, Valeyard? Am I looking at two people who have this opinion or one?


 * I should point out that guidebooks and other non-fictional publications are not valid sources for assertions about narrative points. So all arguments involving the works of Jean-Marc Lofficier and others are completely invalid to this conversation.  So, in the post made by the IP user, point 3 is wholly dismissed.  Point 4 is pure speculation, and also dismissed. Point 2 is a bit of a waffle, which really only leaves point 1.  And I guess that's all you need, really.  The first sentence of point 1 is really all you need to establish that Earthshock is after Revenge.  I'm not understanding what the controversy is, or why so many other, inadmissible arguments have been advanced. Is there some reason that "we've got a recording of the Fourth Doctor" doesn't establish story order?   23:54: Wed 24 Apr 2013