Talk:Blue Humanoid

I agree with the proposed deletion, and I also think that White Humanoid and Red Humanoid page should goes as well. It seems these pages are a 'best guest' at what their species actually are? Should we create pages for unknown species based on their looks? No. If anything, there should a page called List of unknown species and link Dorium (well his species), and any links to Red Humanoid and White Humanoid to there. to create a page called Blue Humanoid etc, is like creating a page called Park where Ianto broke his leg, which would be information on a 'best guess' situation. Mini-mitch\talk 14:47, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed.--Skittles the hog-- Talk 14:52, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

It isn't really racism it is just a guess at a name and why isn't there a picture of the red humanoid.Of course they are not human.94.9.211.247 17:59, February 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, we can't say that each of the coloured skinned people are the same species because that would be guessing, so we can't have a species page, but then again, we should have a page for them. I realise this is like Eve's species, but the title does say that the name is conjecture, and I hardly see how it is racist. It's simply stating a fact, they are blue and they are humanoids. If you consider it to be racist then you're basically saying the writers are racist for calling Catkind that because they look like cats.
 * However, I rather like mini-mitch's idea of a page for unknown species, but rather than it just being a list, it might be better as a proper article, with details and pictures of each species under a separate heading, because as you can see, there is enough information for an article, so why should it just be reduced to a single picture or name? --The Thirteenth Doctor 18:30, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

No, a page of unknown species would be too long and you can't alphabetise as you don't know their names.--Skittles the hog-- Talk 18:36, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then you can't delete these pages. I know for certain there was an un-named individual in Gridlock who I don't think has an article, yet still talked and requires a page. If we delete his species' page, there is no in-universe article for him at all. I don't think an unknown species page would be too long. There's not actually that many species we never learn the name of. And we wouldn't have to do it alphabetically, do it by episode. --The Thirteenth Doctor 18:45, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to interject on this specific point, the character's name to which you refer is Whitey, and for reasons inexplicable, the page moved away from talking about Whitey into talking about White Humanoid. See Talk:White Humanoid for more. The character could keep, and indeed improve, his presence on this wiki if the page simply moved back to Whitey. Then we could focus on what that character, specifically, did.
 * Deleting this page just because "ooh, its racist" is simply dumb. I say we keep them until at least 1 of the humanoids are named, or simply make a page called "Unknown Humanoid" and put them all there80.217.132.115 18:56, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Here is an example of List of Unknown Species I created. I only added the Red and White Humanoids and also Dorium's species. Mini-mitch\talk 19:05, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Actually Category:Individuals of unknown species exists for individuals like that. For the unnamed user, racism is not the only reason for deletion. If pages were created for every unnamed species there would be hundreds of misplaced titles. For example: Elephant Humanoid (DWM: Where Nobody Knows Your Name) and the species that guy who grassed the Doctor up comes from. (DW: Delta and the Bannermen)--Skittles the hog-- Talk 19:06, February 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, as the proposer of deletion, I'd like to say that anonymous users are getting hung up on the word "racism" without reading the entirety of the statement. I've never said "ooh, it's racist", as the above anon suggested. What I've said is that it has the "hint of racism" about it. Totally different thing. It's obviously not possible for it to be actual racism, because we're in no position of power. My point in using the phrase "hint of racism" was just to suggest that naming a species solely on the basis of the color of their skin was silly. It's doubly silly to assume that just because two people have the same color skin they're of the same species. And triply silly to assume that just because two people don't have the same color skin, that they're not of the same species. Put simply: species are more than the color of their skin. We don't desperately need an article on "Dorium's species" — a useful way that Star Wars and Star Trek have traditionally named those species they don't want to name (e.g. Yoda's species) — especially since we cannot prove, through in-universe sources, that Dorium and the Steward and Moxx of Balhoon are of the same species. More to the point we have absolutely no information on what makes any of these hypothetical humanoid species unique. If we can't say anything about their physiology (other than their skin color), history, home world, psychology, political views — really, anything —then how does the article add to our knowledge?

Pros and cons
Can we make a list of the pros and cons of deleting these articles, just so we can get a clear view? --The Thirteenth Doctor 19:22, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

Pros

 * Cannot prove that all individuals are of the same species.
 * Will start a wave of unidentified species pages.
 * Every species should have an article anyway. Just because we don't know the name doesn't mean we shouldn't have one. That's why the conjecture tag was created. If you want exact names, then you may as well delete all articles with conjectural titles. --The Thirteenth Doctor 18:10, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, unknown species do not deserve a page. What would you call Dorium's? Let me guess: Dorium's species. Yeah, you can write a lot on that. X was a member of X unnamed species. Rubbish, that's why Category:Individuals of unknown species was created.--Skittles the hog-- Talk 19:22, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, this discussion is going off the rails a bit when it descends into discussing whether "every species should have an article". That's hardly the point. The only "pro" you need to have in this discussion is the first one listed above. We cannot in any way prove that "Blue Humanoid" describes a species in the DWU. Thus it gets deleted. Simple.


 * There is only one representative of this "blue humanoid" classification, Dorium.
 * We don't have any reason to have an article about "Dorium's species" when there isn't any information about them. Strip the nonsensical "typically seen" and information specifically about Dorium and what's left? They were blue and humanoid and Dorium was one of them. --Nyktimos 00:48, April 5, 2011 (UTC)

Cons

 * Unless we have specific individuals, certain species may not have any article on the wiki at all.
 * Category:Individuals of unknown species. This shows a list of them all. Want to make articles with conjectural titles for all of them?--Skittles the hog-- Talk 19:22, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's my point! You can only add individuals to that category. What about species that don't have individuals? Do they just get ignored completely? --The Thirteenth Doctor 21:53, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. Do you know how many species have been in the DWU?--Skittles the hog-- Talk 21:59, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a spurious argument. The question before us isn't whether unknown species deserve a page. That can be a separate argument made in a general forum discussion. No, the point of this discussion is whether "Blue Humanoid" describes a species within DW. Which it doesn't.

Sounds good. Now all we need is for someone to hit delete.--Skittles the hog-- Talk 22:32, February 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok. I agree that blue humanoid isn't needed, and neither is white, but unless red has an individual, that shouldn't be deleted yet. So I'll start the other discussion in the forums. --The Thirteenth Doctor 11:46, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Do not delete these pages 2.124.118.52 17:45, February 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you don't want this page deleted, you must provide a good reason. --The Thirteenth Doctor 15:22, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * If we deleted this page, then think not only about how long the "Unknown Species" page, but all of the info would get mixed up. It shouldn't be deleted because these things need seperate pages to show that they are different things. Ghastly9090 16:32, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * If we deleted this page, then think not only about how long the "Unknown Species" page, but all of the info would get mixed up. It shouldn't be deleted because these things need seperate pages to show that they are different things. Ghastly9090 16:32, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * If we deleted this page, then think not only about how long the "Unknown Species" page, but all of the info would get mixed up. It shouldn't be deleted because these things need seperate pages to show that they are different things. Ghastly9090 16:32, February 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * The 'Unknown species' page is just a suggestion at the moment, the category 'individuals of unknown species' serves the same purpose. Like I said above, it should be deleted. Mini-mitch\talk 18:32, February 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * it isn't racist, it isn't stupid, just keep it, we can't know the name of everything, it is based on conjecture. so don't delete it. okay?2.122.91.158 18:24, February 18, 2011 (UTC).


 * We know virtually nothing about this species, and like the proposed deletion says, if we kept this we might as well create a article for every other unnamed specie. The category 'Individuals of unknown species' handles this problem well. This pages, along with red and white humanoid should go. Mini-mitch\talk 16:32, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * just because we don't know much doesn't mean it should go, also they are a recurring group of aliens in the whoniverse so we might get to know more in a later episode2.121.78.115 20:08, March 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * just because we don't know much doesn't mean it should go, also they are a recurring group of aliens in the whoniverse so we might get to know more in a later episode2.121.78.115 20:08, March 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * White Humanoids from New Earth and Gridlock are clearly the same species as each other. Red Humanoids from New Earth and Gridlock are clearly the same species as each other. -- Noneofyourbusiness 15:51, March 21, 2011 (UTC)

Nope. There isn't any evidence to back that point. You quite clearly guessing that skin colour defines a species. If you read the rest of this discussion, you'll see all the reasons why such pages shouldn't exist.Skittles the hog-- Talk 09:51, March 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * They should be deleted. If we ever get more information on these species, then we can restore the pages and add the correct information. The articles are just clutching a straw the way they are right now. Mini-mitch\talk 11:34, March 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I think we've cleared everything up now so a deletion seems the next step.Skittles the hog-- Talk 11:36, March 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * They're on the same planet in stories by the same writer. It's not a guess. I did read the rest of the discussion before posting in March; there are no good reasons to delete the White and Red Humanoid pages. This page can go, connecting Dorium to that lot is thin. -- Noneofyourbusiness 02:33, May 5, 2011 (UTC)

Decision
Now that we've heard people's thoughts and ideas about the decisions, can we come to a decision? I don't want this topic to be left in limbo, but it's going that way. I proposed that we deleted the page, as it contains nothing about the species, expect that Dorium was one. If we do get a name, we can easily create a new page, but at the moment, the page is pointless. Mini-mitch\talk 19:01, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, if you ignore the unsupported arguments for keeping it, it seems the general gist is that is should go.Skittles the hog-- Talk 19:06, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

I think we have lost the argument so it shall be deleted94.9.192.0 14:50, April 11, 2011 (UTC)