Howling:Just how many demons are out there?

We have seen at least three demons in the Whoniverse that were awoken (The Destroyer, The Beast, and Abaddon). Of course they're all related - they're demons. The Beast went by the alternative name of Abaddon, too, and Abaddon was quote as being the "son of the Great Beast, cast away before time". There was that thing on the Torchwood website about how they believe there will be more demons out there, scattered across time and space and the universe - trapped on or beneath planets.

It would be really good if Moffat, being a darker writer, expanded upon the muthology of demons when it comes to the Whoniverse - where do they come from? The three demons mentioned above all had the same purpose - consume Earth, devour everything. The Beast was very much wanted to get to Earth, too. The Beast was known to have been trapped by some entities called the Disiplines of the Light, and his son had something to do with an entity called the Light. The Disiplines of the Light are without a doubt, disiplines of the Light mentioned in the Torchwood novel concerning Abaddom. Or they could have something to do with the Anciet (pre-universe) Lights featured in Secrets of the Stars (both came from this pre-universe).

The thing about more demons out there trapped alone on plnaets made me wonder if Midnight is one of them - it could have been trapped there alone, in the dark (as it quoted), forever as a demon by goodness knows whom. It staed itself to have been there alone for a very long time, and called its atmosphere cold and dark.

So the question is, just how many demons are scattered throughout the universe, time and space? What are their origins? And, will the Doctor ever encounter anymore of them? It's one of the greatest parts of the Whoniverse mythology. Oh, and an interesting question here... if the Devil exists in the Whoniverse, then what about God? The Beast even said that his armies would rise and take up war against God... that really does make the Beast the most powerful enemy. His infleucne over time and space is why exil exists in the Whoniverse - without him, there would be no evil or enemies in the Whoniverse. Because he simply... caused it all, spread an evil influence throughout time and space, and so began wars, hatred, and violence as have been seen in many stories. His plan to take up war and rise with armies again who he quoted was God makes him truly dangerous - he would destroy the Whoniverse if he got his own war, he would destroy this supposed "God of everything" in the Whoniverse.

Delton Menace 17:49, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Well The Beast, if he is indeed Lucifersatanbe'elzebub etc etc, is NOT the root of all evil but instead is merely the anthropomorphic representation of all the evil in the world/universe. The Beast cannot exist without evil, not the other way round, and his anthropomorphic existence is maintained by peoples' belief in evil as a concept. Evil is just an idea, and without people there aren't really ideas as such, without people there is no right or wrong, there is just stuff, and other stuff. And the number of demons can really be put down to whether or not the majority of races have one or more than one figure to represent evil. This isn't to say that these demons did not only come into being after the existence of people native to the Whoniverse, they could indeed be remnants of the ideas leftover by something before and then went on to feed on all the hatred and the lies and the turmoil and the pain and the suffering of the peoples of the 'verse... So in destroying everyone, he destroying his strength.

And as for Moffat being a dark writer, that may be as it is, but this is a show for family viewing. A really thorough scare is one thing, Torchwood like demonics is quite another.

But your Midnight hypothesising makes sense. Good thinking. Though this will likely remain a hypothesis, as I doubt that story will be revisited because a big part of its scare was the mystery, its impossibility so to speak. Feumas 23:06, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Moffat has confirmed that he isn't bothered about how dark is gets in Doctor Who - he said he likes to have stories with dark and, or even frightening stories. He isn't afraid to take Doctor Who to a new level, really. As for younger viewers, they want to be scared, as he has said. Most writers are just too chicken to go through with it, but he isn't. Blink is a good example, it scared me if I watched it late at night alone even now. And you're right about Midnight - the point of the story and scare was the mystery and imposibility of the entity - just how did it survive the planet, how did it get inside the cabin without any access, how did a seemingly incorperal being rip some of the seats the shreads and rip the front part of the cabin off? That's truly, mysteriously frightening and impossible.

In contexts of scare, Abaddon wasn't frightening. But, for some some, the Beast of Doctor Who was. The episode was dark, and it was grim how he killed a cew member by pulling her out into space to suffocate and drift into a blackhole. And the whole scene where you hear his voice telling Tobi not to look behind him - that terrified me when I was younger. Doctor Who and Torchwood are similar in terms of demonics. Torchwood had death itself, though. But the ultimate thing is that Doctor Who, especially under control of Moffat, isn't afraid to venture into the darkness of the Whoniverse and bring about more of these demons waiting in the dark. I think in the Whoniverse, however, the Beast doesn't have the same story as in our world - in the Whoniverse, he is an entity that came from before time, and therefore before humanity. But like you said, he could have been created from the negative emotions and evil of people living in the pre-universe, and manifested into what he is before or during the Event One. Delton Menace 01:23, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Not mentioned yet is "Fenric" or the force of evil from before the creation of the universe from The Curse of Fenric. Just watching the episode this past week, "Fenric" very much reminded me of the Beast. I am not claiming that they are the same entity, meerly a striking resemblance.MasterIII 06:54, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

With regards to darkness and Moffat: There are different types of darkness, one being the plain old terrifying type portrayed in his stories so far. Another being the rather more gruesome variety employed by Torchwood. If you start layering on loads and loads of stuff to do with demons and the devil and so on, then you not only venture ever closer to the type of darkess in Torchwood, but you also completely alienate many people who feel that their faith is being vilified and distorted. And you reduce Midnight to just another thing, and it stops becoming scary, and you've completely ruined the story for everyone! Like the Doctor said(paraphrasing): ''Do you want to take the mystery out of everything? Look Martha, you really don't want to know, it just does, okay?'' Feumas 23:56, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

I have watched both of Doctor Who and Torchwood well, but I don't understand what darkness you are refering to. It only feels a little bit darker than Doctor Who to me - aside from a few, very dark episode. I don't know how venturing more into the mythology and demons would make Doctor Who employ Torchwood's darkness. Since when does Torchwood reeply explore Whoniverse mythology? The only mythology it deeply explores was in the three-part story about Owen's death, where it confirmed that there is indeed a death. But that was one story, all other Torchwood stories are much lighter, and never go deep into the mythology and past of the universe. And if you're refering to blood, blood doesn't really make a story dark. I'm just saying venturing into the mythology would be good, not introducing Doctor Who to human canibalism (which was, without a doubt, the darkest story of Torchwood) or anything similar. Delton Menace 03:13, February 18, 2010 (UTC)