User talk:OverAnalyser

'''Welcome to the OverAnalyser

Thanks for your edits! We hope you'll keep on editing with us. This is a great time to have joined us, because now you can play the Game of Rassilon with us and win cool stuff! Well, okay, badges. That have no monetary value. And that largely only you can see. But still: they're cool!

We've got a couple of important quirks for a Wikia wiki, so let's get them out of the way first. British English, please We generally use British English round these parts, so if you're American, please be sure you set your spell checker to BrEng, and take a gander at our spelling cheat card. Spoilers aren't cool We have a strict definition of "spoiler" that you may find a bit unusual. Basically, a spoiler, to us, is anything that comes from a story which has not been released yet. So, even if you've got some info from a BBC press release or official trailer, it basically can't be referenced here. In other words, you gotta wait until the episode has finished its premiere broadcast to start editing about its contents. Please check the spoiler policy for more details. Other useful stuff Aside from those two things, we also have some pages that you should probably read when you get a chance, like:
 * the listing of all our help, policy and guideline pages
 * our Manual of Style
 * our image use policy
 * our user page policy
 * a list of people whose job it is to help you

If you're brand new to wiki editing — and we all were, once! —  you probably want to check out these tutorials at Wikipedia, the world's largest wiki:
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * Picture tutorial

Remember that you should always sign your comments on talk and vote pages using four tildes like this: ~ ~ ~ ~

Thanks for becoming a member of the TARDIS crew! If you have any questions, see the Help pages, add a question to one of the Forums or ask on my talk page. -- Mini-mitch (Talk) 01:44, 6 September 2012

Real world
Hi! You might want to take a look at Tardis:Valid sources under the section "The Real World Doesn't Count". We don't use real world history as a source for in-universe pages. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎  17:30, September 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * To follow up on Shambala108, this also applies to images. Do not upload any real world images for use on in-universe articles. --Tangerineduel / talk 04:13, September 22, 2012 (UTC)

STOP - Real world info
Please stop adding real world information to in-universe articles. Pope Gregory IX has been deleted as it is not clear where you have pulled the information from. Please be aware of our Tardis:Tardis Manual which details our style guide and other information and please also see our Tardis:Help page for a full list of our polices. Please consider these policies as some of these edits are verging on vandalism, albeit I believe unintentional. Your addition of real world information and information that is not derrived from within the DWU may not appear vandalism, but it erodes the accuracy of information on this wiki as a DWU source. --Tangerineduel / talk 06:59, September 23, 2012 (UTC)

Century in Infobox
Do not add year or century to an individual's infobox, see Template:Infobox Individual for a full explanation of the different fields. Edits including century in the infobox will be rolled back / undone. --Tangerineduel / talk 05:41, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

Minor edits
Please do not mark edits such as this as a minor edit. As our Tardis:Edit summary page explains a minor edit is only for minor spelling, grammar or wikilink corrections. --Tangerineduel / talk 05:44, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

Infobox
Individual, and indeed any infoboxen are a summary of the article, they don't need citations unless it's a very unusual fact that needs further explanation. For practically all articles do not put citations in the infobox. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:10, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Citation
See T:CITE for more information, though in short only use ref tags for real world articles. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:10, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Warning
As I have noted above, do not include real world information as you did on the Richard I of England articles. Further actions such as this will be interpreted as vandalism and you may be blocked from editing on this wiki. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:22, September 27, 2012 (UTC)

Final warning
Understand, that citing a real world source on an individual such as Albert Einstein is in violation of our Tardis:Valid sources. Adding a real world source for an in-universe character is not done on this wiki. Please leave a message on my talk page if you do not understand any of the policies on this wiki. Any further violations - this means any further additions of real world to any in-universe pages and you will be blocked from editing on this wiki. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:38, September 28, 2012 (UTC)

Block
Take a powder. For a week. We're serious. You can't go adding information from the real world into our articles. I've today discovered this edit, which clearly shows you adding real life information to Ringo Starr earlier today. We have no idea that his real name is "Richard Starkey" from DWU sources. You must observe T:NO RW if you want to continue editing here. 18:30: Fri 28 Sep 2012

Ref tags and Reflist
If you're adding & / and information within them onto a page you need to add the to the page also, otherwise the information does not show up on the page. Place this at the bottom of the page above the categories:

Troy image
Where abouts is File:Troy0-1250 A.jpg from as all the episodes are missing? --Tangerineduel / talk 04:45, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Image Categories
The categories that you need to add to images are separate from the article categories. Please do not add article categories to images. You can find all the image categories in the Category:Images by content category and the various sub-categories within it. Thanks. --Tangerineduel / talk 04:52, October 19, 2012 (UTC)

Redundant categories
I've noticed you've been adding more categories than you need to on some articles. Take for example your edits on the Policemen from the Daleks' Master Plan. I believe one or more of them were tagged as Human police officers, Individual police officers and Metropolitan police officers. Really, only the last one is necessary, as it's the most specific. Basically, avoid redundant categories if you can. Memnarc ☎  04:26, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

Loose Cannon are not valid
Loose Cannon images, DVD, video or anything else related to any fan productions are not to be used on this wiki. Their images, reconstructions and any footage, images or anything, anything they produce cannot be used on this wiki. Do not upload anything created by Loose Cannon for use on any articles on this wiki. Because they are reconstructions we cannot be sure what they have made up and what was (if anything) original. --Tangerineduel / talk 10:32, October 20, 2012 (UTC)

P.S.
PS is not a valid source. Please see Forum:P.S. for a discussion centred on this story. --Tangerineduel / talk 04:19, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Warning
Do not place out of universe information on an in-universe page. Please look at any in-uiniverse page. Behind the scenes, real world information is placed in the "Behind the scenes" section. --Tangerineduel / talk 04:25, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Categories on images
Thanks for trying to comply with our request that images should be categorised. However, it's important to put them into the right categories. Images should only go into categories that end in the word "images". Please see this comparison between your edits and my edits of file:Finch General.jpg. Thanks :) 21:51: Sat 22 Dec 2012

Pic commision
You appear to have a copy of The Snowmen (TV story), can I ask for you to retrieve an image for me?

I'd like an image of the big ball of snow that the Great Intelligence speaks out of. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 08:21, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

Seriously, no real world information
Could you please leave a note on my talk page explaining why you continue to add information from the real world into our articles? Just today, you entered precise Google locations of the Drayton Court into that article. You've been asked by at least two admin, and have been banned before, for violations of T:NO RW. I'd like to understand why you keep violating it.

If we can't figure out why you're continuing to ignore this rule, we will have to permanently suspend your ability to edit on this wiki. You have seven prior warnings, from three different users, on violations of this rule. And you've been banned before.

I have very few options in such a case. It appears to me as if you are now deliberately breaking this rule. If you don't provide me with an explanation of your difficulties prior to your next edit of any kind, you will be permanently banned from editing this wiki. 23:50: Fri 28 Dec 2012

Thanks for replying. It's good to know your rationale. But I must stress that your reasoning is in explicit contradiction to our rules. I'll try to explain things based on your examples, but please understand that this is not in the way of debate. The rules stand and you are bound to uphold them. If you choose to continue introducing real world information into articles, you will be blocked.

That plainly understood, let me highlight your central thesis:


 * "Simply put, when reality and the depiction contradict, the depiction rules. But when reality is not challenged by the depiction, reality is reality."

That's completely opposed to T:NO RW, which says in part:


 * "Don't go any further than what the DWU source actually tells you."

Starting an article at Drayton Court is fine, because we have signage. Moreover, the article must have a name of some sort, and it's better to have a genuine name rather than some generic thing like Tavern (Survival). We obviously allow some identification of cultural references from the real world based on auditory or visual information alone, because otherwise we wouldn't have a good title for a number of pages. For instance, we hear "Voodoo Child" and we know it is this song, because that's evidently what it is. Otherwise, we'd end up with some ridiculously unhelpful name like Song the Master Played (The Sound of Drums).

So, yes, there is a utility in using purely auditory and visual information to name — and again I stress, name — our articles.

But that is as big an assumption as we're willing to make. As you can see at Voodoo Child, we're very careful to note that the title is not revealed in-narrative, but that we're titling the article based upon the fact that the work is recognisably that song.

Your edits go rather far afield from this. Giving Google geo-coding, or saying they're in Ealing, is not acceptable, because Survival merely asserts they're in Perivale. In this case, you're actually contradicting information given in narrative.

Generally, however, your edits have been giving more information than is actually present on screen.

You've used that most dangerous of phrases in your explanation: "it's reasonable to assume". But we're trying to keep assumptions to a minimum around here, because they may not, in fact, be reasonable. Take your Invasion example. You're placing the story in the City based upon the costume given to a PC? C'mon, this is the Doctor Who costume department we're talking about. They could easily have got it wrong. What you see as proof could just as easily be production error. Equally your points about trying to judge location based upon perceived distance fails because you're depending on editing and shot framing to be realistic. That's in no way a "reasonable assumption".

Your other major point is even more unsupportable. You say:


 * "If a location is appearing as itself, then its information is real."

You call this "clumsy" wording, but actually it sums up your view pretty well. It's not clumsy so much as obviously wrong. It's fundamentally illogical to say that if you film a building which actually exists, all the real life details of that building are then a part of the DWU — but if you film at a "stand-in" location.

Doctor Who recently filmed in Central Park. That doesn't make a part of the DWU. It filmed in the Louvre, but that doesn't mean we know for a fact that the DWU Louvre contains great Egyptian works, even though the real world Louvre certainly does.

It is essentially a happenstance of scheduling and good location management that Doctor Who is occasionally able to shoot at the real life locations called for by its scripts. To suggest that we should allow a different sort of coverage for studio work, location work, and on-real-location work is to invite chaos.

The rule must be the same no matter where filming occurred. It must also be a rule that applies to stories where filming never occurs, such as novels and audios. We therefore go with the most conservative, narrowest interpretation of what the narrative gives us. If it's a real location, we put a tag up, and let the reader decide if she wants more real life information.

So, again, I stress that your interpretation of how we handle real life information is not the one we're using, nor is T:NO RW up for debate. If you'd like further clarification, I'll do my best to oblige. But please stop introducing real world information into the in-universe portions of articles. 05:32: Sat 29 Dec 2012

p.s. If you haven't read it already, you would probably benefit from reading the following explanation of real world articles. The message is actually meant for category pages, which is why the first paragraph reads a little oddly. But the rest sums up our view on this subject pretty well.

See for more. Okay, sorry about that fiddling around with your talk page. I forgot that had a  declaration — which is really a very bad thing to put onto a user talk page.

Now, onto what seems to be your main concern.

The bulk of your latest message seems concerned with various bits that I removed from Perivale and Ealing, and whether I was making a specific statement about each of those bits. The truth is that since you were a "repeat offender" against T:NO RW, it seemed a waste of time to go through all your revisions, one by one, to determine which were worth keeping and which not. I therefore took the standard administrative approach of administering what was, in effect, what's called a "rollback". That's just a thing whereby all edits from a particular user, between two endpoints, are reverted. Essentially, since you were on the verge of being permanently blocked, your edits were removed without judging each and every one of them, because enough of the edits on those pages were in violation of T:NO RW to make individual removal tedious.

Admin often can't get bogged down in the minutiae of individual edits, especially when one user — in this case, you — were making the same mistakes on multiple pages. You can say that's throwing out the baby with the bathwater. And from your point of view, that's an apt metaphor. But from my perspective, since I'm having to go back and work on a lot of articles, it's more like firefighting. In pouring water onto a burning structure, you're going to add water damage to the fire damage. But if you save the structural integrity of the house, you've achieved a better outcome than just letting the house burn down.

This is not the same thing as saying that there was actually something of value in the house that I should have rescued. For all I know, you were a collector of cheap, stuffed unicorns, and so the world is no worse for their burning. I was merely noting that there were clear violations of T:NO RW in those articles, and it was more important to revert them, than to sift through each and every edit, trying to separate the chaff from what may or may not have been the wheat.

The lack of specific review shouldn't be taken on your part as license to add back bit after bit until suddenly we've got exactly the same article as was reverted. It's a deliberate pause to allow time for reflection, so that if you do make further additions to those articles, you'll make ones that are more sound.

I'll be back later to talk about your more specific hypotheticals. 16:36: Sat 29 Dec 2012