Talk:The Name of the Doctor (TV story)

My theory
I know this is speculation. But instead of being an "8.5" or the "Real 9th Doctor", I reckon John Hurt will be playing an older Eighth Doctor. In the flashbacks, there was no Eighth Doctor, in the time stream sequence at the end when they were running past, there was no Eighth Doctor.

This way, none of the regenerations get messed around and from a story perspective it can still make perfect sense, not to mention, the costuming is a mix between 8 and 9. So that's my theory, John Hurt is playing an older 8th Doctor.
 * We do see the Eighth Doctor, in the Second Doctor scene. Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 23:33, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Where? Aliyoda ☎  11:29, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with your theory; John Hurt does look conceivably like an older Paul McGann in the few pictures I've seen. It also makes sense that John Hurt would be playing a Last Great Time War-era Doctor, since the Eleventh Doctor knew what this version of himself had done and why that version of himself was such a secret. The only thing we don't know is whether Trenzalore is meant to be in the Eleventh's future or past...or both... Milar Kayne ☎  23:42, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Please move this discussion to Howling:The Howling, which is once again open. Article talk pages are for discussing the editing of the article, NOT for discussing theories, plot holes, speculation or the like. (See Tardis:Discussion policy.) Thanks! Shambala108 ☎  23:48, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

What if Hurt's the fabled "Grandfather Paradox" the Doctor believed in when he was a child?

Multi-Doctor Story?
We have John Hurt introduced as the Doctor and he interacts with Eleven. Do we require a certain number of minutes of multi-Doctor interaction before we consider it a multi-Doctor story? Mewiet ☎  23:28, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * There's also the scene with the First Doctor and Clara: "A multi-Doctor story is a story featuring two or more different incarnations of the Doctor. The list includes stories with flashback but excludes stories where the Doctor regenerates and stories featuring only pictures or archive footage of another incarnations." This scene is meant to be a flashback, new to viewers, and I thought that the scene with One and Susan walking into the TARDIS was shot with body doubles, not an archival clip. Mewiet ☎  00:38, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Tenth Doctor
Does the Tenth Doctor appear? The article says Clara sees him in the Library, but I've re-watched the pre-credits sequence and don't see it. Does it come later in the episode? --Btolsen ☎  23:58, May 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's very fast, but you can see a screencap someone took here. Mewiet ☎  00:03, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * There he is! Thanks! --Btolsen ☎  00:18, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * That version happens to look like Oswinn Oswald from Asylum of the Daleks.
 * Why does the article say this is from Gridlock, then? 70.72.211.35talk to me 15:46, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Planet Name
Alright, one of my main questions is:

When did the planet change from Pellinor to Tanzalor? --Spiritcrusher77 ☎  01:38, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it was always Trenzalore... Milar Kayne ☎  02:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * No, remember, Dorium said that the Doctors name would be revealed 'In the fields of Pellinor, when no one can lie, the question will be ask. The First Question. Doctor, Who?' At least, I remember the words The fields of Pellinor. --Spiritcrusher77 ☎  03:15, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * I can check, but I'm pretty sure you just misheard it...it seems to have always been stated as "Trenzalore." Milar Kayne ☎  03:19, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, see what it says. --Spiritcrusher77 ☎  03:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * In The Wedding of River Song (TV story), it is definitely Trenzalore. As far as I know, it isn't mentioned anywhere else. Also note that searching the TARDIS Data Core for "Pellinor" turns up nothing. It was quite certainly Trenzalore from the start. Milar Kayne ☎  03:46, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * You're right. I listened to it again. It's Trenzaalore. Thanks. --Spiritcrusher77 ☎  03:51, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Glad to help! :D Milar Kayne ☎  04:00, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

The God Complex
So, in The God Complex, The Doctor sees his greatest fear behind a door, but we the viewer do not see it. Is it possible that his greatest fear is his secret? RobbieNewton1 ☎  08:15, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Only seeing Eleven Faces
What if The Doctor knew Clara was going to jump into the Time Stream to save him and created a multiple time stream when he died. One stream of 1-11 up to The Name of the Doctor and another stream of 11-End?

It all makes sense
It all makes sense now. John Hurt is the Lost Doctor. I've heard about this rumor earlier but this makes it clear. John Hurt is the true 9th Doctor in between the 8th Doctor and Christopher Eccleston's 9th Doctor. However, they were able to incorporate this game-changing revelation. In the episode, it's stated that Hurt's Doctor didn't act in the name of the Doctor. This means that while this makes Eccleston the 10th incarnation, Tennant the 11th incarnation, and Smith the 12th incarnation, they still remain as the 9th, 10th, and 11th Doctors respectively. It's also cool how this was the meaning of the episode's title. The title didn't mean the Doctor's true name but rather the Doctor's incarnations acting in the name of the Doctor, save for Hurt's incarnation.
 * The was my first thought. Then I thought maybe he is a earlier version of the First Doctor. We all know that the Doctor has a very "mysterious and dark" side when he was younger, before he left Gallifrey. It is alluded to over and over during the 7th Doctor's run.--Deb1701 13:01, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * As Shambala108 said above, there's a better place for this discussion on the Howlings page, but here's a quick argument against the "Lost Doctor" idea: If Trenzalore was meant to be the site of the "Fall of the Eleventh," and there is a lost regeneration of the Doctor, then Matt Smith is the Twelfth and David Tennant is the Eleventh. But this means that it would have been Tennant who came to Trenzalore, not Smith. Even though the Doctor says that Hurt did not act "in the name of the Doctor," it would not change the fact that Hurt's being a separate regeneration would shift the count completely. Note that the prophecy says only "Fall of the Eleventh," and not "Fall of the Eleventh Doctor." Thus, it is unlikely that Hurt is meant to lie between 8 and 9. Milar Kayne ☎  13:57, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Eighth Doctor
Is the Eighth Doctor in this episode? I've watched the scene where he supposedly appears multiple times, but I can't see him. Does anyone have a screenshot? Aliyoda ☎  12:12, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * You can barely see him running a second before the Second Doctor. --HarveyWallbanger ☎  12:17, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Anyone have a screencap? --Deb1701 12:59, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * http://24.media.tumblr.com/e4d19d065fd80e47939abdfde4e69f5f/tumblr_mn0dqbg9TK1qapfimo1_400.gif 86.23.101.56talk to me 12:58, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks--Deb1701


 * The BBC likes to have to deal with the least amount of footage involving the Eighth Doctor as possible; because of how the TV movie was produced and published, they have to deal with 20th Century Fox and Universal Studios for use of footage. That'd just be a giant hassle, so they've not worried themselves doing it. The Eighth we see is that scene is a double, and 'new footage,' hence why you don't see his face and makes him hard to identify.--Scieran ☎  13:07, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

When the Doctor is looking at his "body" - light column - and hears the voices, these are played too:

"They're still in the nursery compared to us!" - Sixth Doctor, 'The Trial of a Time Lord'

"The daisiest daisy..." The Third Doctor, 'The Time Monster'

"Some corners of the universe have bred the most terrible things..." Second Doctor, 'Tomb of the Cybermen'

"Do I have the right?" The Fourth Doctor, 'Genesis of the Daleks'

Doctor Aliases used
So the Great Intelligence calls the Doctor a few names, and I get the references to The Valeyard, and presumably "Storm" is "The Oncoming Storm". But he's also referred to as "The Beast" at the same time as those other two, and I don't remember the reference here. Is this a reference to a past name of the Doctor? Or is this foreshadowing?

Noting that Aliases of the Doctor doesn't include Beast.

--209.6.91.193talk to me 14:14, May 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * The Beast could just a mistranslation of The Predator, as used by the Daleks. They're similar in connotations. --Scieran ☎  14:30, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

The TARDIS Engineers
Who are these two guys? The one with the welding kit looked suspiciously like | Moritz Belibtreu...

River Song's location
In the Continuity section, it says "River Song appears from the databanks of the Library Data Core". Is this stated? Because all of the participants of the seance received an invitation. I assumed this was earlier in River Song's timeline, not after her death. If it is, how could Madame Vastra have gotten a message to her? It must be earlier, before the events in the Library.

Is it just inferred because River talked about not getting a goodbye from The Doctor? That could happen after any adventure as they never really knew when they would see each other again until the final events of Forest of the Dead (TV story). In that episode, River says "The last time I saw you, the real you, the future you, I mean, you turned up on my doorstep, with a new haircut and a suit. You took me to Darillium to see the Singing Towers. What a night that was. The Towers sang, and you cried." Does it sound like this has even happened yet? It could even be the Twelfth. Badwolff ☎  19:54, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, she clearly states being dead, so yes, she's definitely coming from the CAL data core. Beside, the night he took her to the Singing Towers was already shown in the Serie 6 mini episode Last Night--Gulinux ☎  21:16, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Disagree on the meaning of "silence"
Also, in Continuity it says "The prophecy of the First Question is referred to again, and silence indeed falls." Huh? If there is a silence, it is very brief.

Plus, I thought it was pretty clear that the prophecy didn't mean "a moment without sound" but The Silence, the group, falling. If it was just referring to a moment of silence, then why on Earth would The Silence go to such great lengths to try to kill The Doctor? I can't see how they are affected by this episode since it is not happening "at the fall of the Eleventh." Badwolff ☎  19:59, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, "silence falling" could also be referred to stars going out. Anyway we still don't have many clues to Moffat agenda.. It is unknown why the Silence really wanted the Doctor dead (to prevent someone breaking in his timeline and destroy everything he saved? well killing him would still mean exposing his timeline to everyone.. not a great plan), nor why the Tardis exploded in season 6, so all this is just speculation--Gulinux ☎  21:28, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

I think this is set after the time of the Silence fall on Trenzalore. The Doctor fought the Silence there causing them to fall, but maybe this caused his final death and as he was dying he requested the tomb to be built and sealed it with his name.A-Smk ☎  23:08, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Production Errors
Are we really sure to consider Vastra not being reverted to her "primal personality" a production error? The effects of the Doctor timeline rewritten are gradual: first we see some stars going out, then Jenny disappears, then Strax reverts to his sontaran personality. We could just assume Vastra would have been reverted later.--Gulinux ☎  21:30, May 19, 2013 (UTC)