Talk:The Time of the Doctor (TV story)

New Companion?
Please tell me we can list "Handles" as a companion of the Eleventh Doctor! I mean, if a shapeshifting penguin counts... --ScruffyC ☎  03:50, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, Handles merits a companion page and will have one. --IrasCignavojo ☎  10:04, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * He already has his own page, what's left is adding in a suitable picture. Gokyr586 ☎  10:07, December 26, 2013 (UTC)

Who says Handles isn't the cutest companion in the history of Doctor Who? Sergent Doomy Doom, Doomy Doomy Doomy Doom-BOOM! Boooooooom...Dooooom...Doom Boom. Doom Boom. Doom Boom. ☎  10:09, December 26, 2013 (UTC)

wat
in the main enemy section it lists the silence

the silence are a evil religous order sprung off from the papal mainframe to destroy the doctor

The Silents who are really confessional Priests are good and some are bad but only the good ones appeared in the special User:Orangerichard56 ☎  12:30, December 26, 2013 (UTC)

Incarnations and regeneration cycle
The article calls the Twelfth Doctor the "first incarnation of his new regeneration cycle", wouldn't it be more correct to say he is the second? The new cycle was given to the Eleventh Doctor, who then proceeded to use the first regeneration of his new cycle. The First Doctor never regenerated by if you list incarnations by regenerative cycle he would be considered the first incarnation of his original cycle, not the Second Doctor.

So it should be changed to 1) "second incarnation of his new regeneration cycle", but that would likely confuse people; 2) "first regeneration of his new regeneration cycle"; or 3) "new incarnation of his new regenerative cycle", new incarnation avoids the number issue but you could also add "first" to "new incarnation" to indicate that while the Eleventh Doctor would still be considered part of the new cycle, he was still a preexisting incarnation when the new cycle started. - The Light6 ☎  13:00, December 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * Eleven was already as good as dead when he gained his new cycle. As the First and War Doctors would say, his body was "wearing thin". He was about to die of old age. As such, the granting of a new cycle also triggered the regeneration. The new last Doctor would now be the 24th Doctor, the 26th incarnation.
 * Yes he was good as dead, but that ignores the point of it, that the new cycle was granted to him, and that he, however briefly, was part of that cycle. And the fact he also regenerated means that one regeneration of the new cycle has also already been used up, which means that the 23rd Doctor, not the 24th is the new last Doctor (barring any more non-Doctor, Doctors or double-regeneration Doctors, of course). - The Light6 ☎  02:05, December 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Where is it said that he got a new cycle of twelve regenerations? Maybe he got one more, maybe he got 50, maybe he got billions. -- ''Erik (talk ) 21:47, December 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Also the quesstion is how many regneration energy he wasted to beat a whole dalek ship. I wonder if u could coun regeneration also as a defensive weapon, the energy outburst is kinda deadly for the enemies of the doctor if they get hit by the energy outburst. 85.8.97.247talk to me 00:58, December 31, 2013 (UTC)

Edit requests
The last item on Story Notes needs some major spelling corrections. And the item about Smith's leg injury needs to be adjusted a little to reference the fact the Doctor uses a cane for part of the episode. 70.76.69.162talk to me 22:10, December 26, 2013 (UTC)

Question about Clara
How did she not age when the doctor was in Christmas for 300 years? --Peruano99 ☎  23:31, December 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * You are aware this programme regards time travel, right?
 * --TheMasterRace ☎  00:05, December 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes but how did she know he was going to be 300 years into the future? --Peruano99 ☎  06:48, December 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * What? OK let me explain; the Doctor sent Clara back to Earth and than the TARDIS began to return to Trenzalore, before it dematerialised Clara clung to the side causing her to be brought along with the TARDIS, the TARDIS then arrived back on Trenzalore 300 years after it left but only a small period of time had passed for Clara and the TARDIS. - The Light6 ☎  07:51, December 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, but that presents us with a different problem - How exactly did she survive being exposed to the time vortex so long? Jack Harkness got killed from it in Utopia, but Clara looks almost completely fine.--84.108.221.53talk to me 12:50, January 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * It is specifically stated in the episode that the TaRDiS extended its shields to protect Clara. In the case of Jack the TaRDiS was actively trying to avoid him and was at best trying to throw him off and at worst possibly trying to kill him. It is possible though that she knew Jack would not die so she did not even bother trying to protect him.  As for Clara it is likely that the TaRDiS had grown found of her by this point, having saved the Doctor and all, or that she at least did not want Clara's death to be at her hands.  Either way the TaRDiS protected Clara from the time vortex.  It also is likely that she did not spend all that long in the vortex.  Vortex travel is not instant but from the point of view of passengers a point to point trip takes a mater of minutes. The likely reason the TaRDiS arrived late was likely due to getting her temporal coordinates thrown off by having to put up shields to protect Clara or maybe her mass throwing off balance. Over the whole span of space and time missing your stop by just the tiniest fraction could easily mean hundreds of years.  --  Fox Landale  ☎  13:15, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

Out of time?
When River shot the Doctor in an earlier episode he began to regenerate and yet in this episode he (correctly) mentions that he can no longer regenerate as he has used up all his lives. I imagine quite a few people noticed this but I just wanted to mention it as a gaping continuity error.


 * He never began to regenerate because it was actually the Teselecta disguised as the Doctor all along and was only mimicking regeneration. - The Light6 ☎  14:04, December 27, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, this may be worth a mention. Originally, in The Impossible Astronaut (TV story), it was the Doctor who was killed. That's why River choosing not to shoot him splintered time, and that's when the Doctor made the switch with the Teselecta.

Just like Trenzalore, originally the Doctor did die, but it was changed. Him having regen energy in TIA is, in hindsight, a continuity error. Jamie Jones54842 ☎  19:00, December 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Wrong, it was the Teselecta the whole time. After the Doctor asked the captain of the Teselecta to deliver the envelopes, the captain asked if there was anything else they could do for him. It was at that moment he came up with the solution to hide in the Teselecta, and did so. The trip to Lake Silencio occurred after that. - DarkXaven ☎  19:29, December 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree that is was always the Teselecta that got shot at Lake Silencio. As DarkXaven said the trip to the lake always happened after the Doctor had the idea to use the Teselecta to help fake his death.  The reason reality breaks when River would not shoot was because the universe needed to think the Doctor was dead.  The fixed point in time was the Teselecta faking the Doctor's death not his actual death. When River would not shot time broke.  It was only when she did shoot the Teselecta that time was fixed.  What we saw in The Impossible Astronaut (TV story) was reality after the break was fixed.  Time always broke but it was always fixed.  Also if the Doctor ever died on Lake Silencio her would never have been in the town of Christmas so the Papal Mainframe would not have needed to change their religion to silence so there would never have been the off shoot of the church around to create River or even cause the cracks in time in the first place.  Maybe the Doctor was originally ment to die on Trenzalore but he was never meant to die at the Lake. -- Fox Landale  ☎  13:56, February 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * It should also be noted that there is no evidence yet to suggest that River was aware of the War Doctor, given that Clara in her many forms navigated the Doctor's time stream yet remained unaware of him. So as far as she was concerned he still had one more. There has also been no set "format" for what happens to a Time Lord when he finally dies. 70.76.69.162talk to me 15:13, December 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, we have seen Time Lords die before... But either way, I don't believe there's a need to mention that in this article, nor RIver's awareness/lack of awareness of whether he had regenerations left or not. Spreee ☎  20:09, January 9, 2014 (UTC)Spreee


 * Agreed. But what I think is a more serious contradiction is that in The Name of the Doctor (TV story), the TARDIS at the Doctor's final resting place in Trenzalore has the same interior as his current TARDIS. Regardless of the new regeneration cycle, it's clearly stated to be the Doctor's final resting place (as I mentioned above), and I don't know why would the Doctor switch back into this "desktop theme" after such a long time (except that the War Doctor's console room in The Day of the Doctor (TV story) is the console room he had in the classic series before Doctor Who: The Movie but with the RTD-era new series console, so it would make sense that the Doctor might combine two designs similarly when he finally dies).--84.108.221.53talk to me 13:08, January 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * The Trenzalore in The Name of the Doctor (TV story) was a future in which the 11th Doctor died. In that point in his timeline history went much like it did in The Time of the Doctor (TV story) only for some reason he was not granted a new regeneration cycle.  Something changed that timeline we can only speculate what factor changed but for some reason in this episode The Doctor was granted a new cycle and he did not die on Trenzalore like he was supposed to. Therefor it is a moot point since now he will not die on Trenzalore.  I am just guessing here but I figure something changed between The Name of the Doctor (TV story) and The Day of the Doctor (TV story) since the 12th Doctor is there to help save Galifrey . He would not be able to be there if the Doctor did not regenerate on Trenzalore so maybe Clara did something we did not get to see while in his timeline that changed things.  I could be over thinking things though and this could be something they have to write their way out of.  Who knows maybe after The Doctors death the TaRDiS returns to Trenzalore to die (Maybe to prevent a paradox of the TaRDiS not being there preventing Clara from needing to jump into the Doctor's timeline. Again... over thinking I am sure.) and she picks that desktop theme for some sentimental reason. -- Fox Landale  ☎  13:41, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

Episode's Enemies
Um... The Silence weren't enemies of the Doctor in this episode. They even helped him. ("And so, in the fields of Trenzalore... the ancient enemies, the Doctor and the Silence, stood back to back..."). However, you listed the silence as enemies. Maybe the creepy Dalek-puppet-silence is an enemy, but the Silence themselves aren't. ZivTargaryen ☎  21:55, December 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * The silence were ORIGINALLY the enemy, but then they changed sides near the end. Thecrazyweirdo ☎  18:52, December 30, 2013 (UTC)

i think i can answer that, remember that part of the church broke into a seperate faction in the hopes of preventing the events from happening. The group also conists of silence. I hope that answers your questionSclera1 ☎

The invasions on Christmas?
So the Time Lords are returning, but why were the species waiting for the Time Lords? It says to "begin the Time War anew", but why would they do that? -180.172.49.61talk to me 11:37, December 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * This is more appropriate a question for Moffat. 70.76.69.162talk to me 15:29, December 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * There are still Daleks & Cybermen and other creatures in the world, and no one forgot the chaos of the TimeWar and also the danger from the TimeLords for these evil creatures. So why would they wait? Planet is shielded. Doctor could bring them back on the even of the planet burning etc. etc. there are so many reasons out there alrdy. So the doctor needs to find a way to make sure that his folks can come back in secret & protected. Please remember the original principles of the TimeLords > only watch & never interfere.... 89.166.129.33talk to me 04:10, December 29, 2013 (UTC)

Novak's birthday
According to his article, the actor who voiced Handles was born on the 15th anniversary of Doctor Who. Normally this is just trivia, but given TOTD concluded the anniversary year and the trilogy, it might be worth adding to a behind the scenes list.70.76.69.162talk to me 15:29, December 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's just trivia, as far as this page is concerned. But it's appropriate to note on the actor's page. 16:48: Sat 11 Jan 2014

Story number
Hi everyone,

Should the story number be 240?

Best wishes

Andy86.185.84.92talk to me 16:24, December 28, 2013 (UTC)
 * Why? 16:48: Sat 11 Jan 2014

Previous story number was 239.

Narration
Moving the following from a forum thread that's going to be deleted. 04:32: Mon 30 Dec 2013
 * The continuity section of "The Time of the Doctor (TV Story) incorrectly states that it is the second story to feature a narrator. It is actually the third, as the episode "Cold Blood" in Series 5 also featured a narrator, revealed to be Eldane. Additionally, the article does not specify that it is the third use of narration in the revived series specifically (Tom Baker narrates a short passage at the beginning of the classic serial "The Deadly Assassin").

"Featured" section of infobox.
Ok, I don't want to start an edit conflict, but why do you guys keep removing the weeping angels and sontarans from the featured section? (and not listing handles as a companion) Thecrazyweirdo ☎  18:46, December 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Can't speak to why Handles isn't listed, but presumably the Angels and Sontarans play too minor a role to really qualify as "Featured" aliens. 68.146.70.124talk to me 01:20, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

I think Handles isn't listed in the companions section is because he wasn't there for the WHOLE entire episode Scheepybird ☎  19:45, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

Amy Pond
Just passing through. Rewatched the regeneration. Amy isn't wearing any wedding ring. Think whoever wrote that section needs to probably slow their role.

Thanks


 * Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes.
 * Also, although she is wearing some sort of a ring, I won't necessarily call it wedding ring. Could someone back this up, please? TheMostBoringManInTheWorld   (talk)  15:13, January 3, 2014 (UTC)

Clara's Grandma is wearing the same ring as Amy,no really, they ARE wearing the same ring. So this means it's a wedding ring becuase it's on the wedding ring fingers. Here's a link --> http://www.pajiba.com/seriously_random_lists/27-reasons-why-that-was-the-perfectly-whovian-way-to-say-goodbye-to-matt-smith.php Just scroll down until you see Amy's hand and Clara's grandmother. A lot of Whovians think they are the same person which also solves the question how Riversong was still mentally connected to Clara, 'blood calling blood' introduced in 'Hide'. Oops! I just got off topic. Sorry! @Mostboringmanintheworld Geronimo! ☎  15:33, January 3, 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for clearing that up. I didn't notice it was on wedding ring finger before. TheMostBoringManInTheWorld   (talk)  07:48, January 4, 2014 (UTC)


 * Do keep in mind that the Doctor does not see the real Amy, only an imaginary/hallucinatory version. It's worth noting she isn't wearing her glasses and her style of dress and hair suggests he is seeing her in her younger days, as opposed to the older (mid-30s at least) Amy of Series 7. If he's remembering her pre-marriage, then there is no reason for her to be wearing a wedding ring. 68.146.70.124talk to me 01:23, January 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * Her wedding ring is a symbolic thing, meaning Rory. She wore that attire in A Town Called Mercy. http://i2.cdnds.net/12/37/618x412/cult_doctor_who_s07_e03_1.jpg and compare it to the scene that's in the link (That's comparing Clara's grandma and Amy's ring) from my reply to MmostboringmanInTheWorld. Karen Gillian was wearing a wig because she shaved her head for "Gauridans of the Galaxy"" and that's why she looks so young. Do you expect Amy wears her her glasses ALL the time? @Anon 68 Geronimo!  ☎  11:58, January 11, 2014 (UTC)
 * Most wedding rings aren't visibly unique. Rings are mass produced and sold in shops. What makes most rings unique are inscriptions on the interior. Most people can't afford a truly bespoke wedding ring.  Just because you see two women wearing what appears to be the same ring doesn't mean there's any kinda connection between them, except that their spouses went to the same jewellers. Remember, the above-quoted website lists this "connection" under a heading reading crackpot theories.  16:44: Sat 11 Jan 2014


 * It's still a wedding ring, right? TheMostBoringManInTheWorld   (talk)  14:12, January 13, 2014 (UTC)

Ice Warriors ?
I'm almost sure I've seen some Ice Warrior ships (from Cold War) in the fleet surrounding Trenzalore. Am I wrong? SteamMoose ☎  13:54, January 3, 2014 (UTC)

daleks
Hi, i noticed in some of the scenes of the stories about the flying Daleks, and even though i found it hard to closely look at them, i noticed that they looked different from the usually flying daleks (they almost look similar to the new emperor dalek but smaller). My question is, are the flying daleks in this episode a different type of dalek or maybe they might be attached to a vehicle etc.? I know its trivial and speculative but i would really like to know... cheers Sclera1 ☎  09:53, January 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * There never really was an explanation given in the show about whether these flying Daleks are a special type or simply machines controlled by them, if I remember correctly. I might be wrong, though. TheMostBoringManInTheWorld   (talk)  15:58, January 8, 2014 (UTC)


 * I checked on the wiki and they're called Dalek Fighter Pods. Hope that helped! TheMostBoringManInTheWorld   (talk)  07:39, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
 * They debuted in The Day of the Doctor. We've called them "Dalek fighter pods" (though really that name shouldn't be title cased like that) because that's what Milk VFX, their creators, called them. Generally, we don't use names derived from an out-of-universe source. On those occasions where we have nothing else to go on, however, we'll defer to the scripted or behind-the-scenes name.  For more information,  check out this video, starting at about the 4' mark:


 * 16:22: Sat 11 Jan 2014

One for the production errors
When the TARDIS arrives at Christmas for the first time after leaving the papal mothership, it lands without making the traditional sound, or indeed any sound at all. 68.146.70.124talk to me 01:21, January 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * The Doctor lands the tardis quietly on purpose in order to sneak in without anyone noticing. --Coop3 ☎  13:17, January 11, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's now established in narrative – The Time of Angels, to be specific — that the familiar noise is the result of leaving the brakes on, and that it's possible to land silently. That means for this wiki that when the TARDIS lands without making a noise, it's not a produciton error — unless we're told by a member of the production staff that they made a mistake and forgot to add the sound.  16:46: Sat 11 Jan 2014


 * But apparently every other Time Lord seen in the series to fly a TARDIS had his TARDIS make this sound while taking off and landing. Wonder what would cause everyone to fly their TARDISes with brakes on. Unless the "leaving the brakes on" remark by River in TToA was just a joke without any serious purpose for information, which seems very likely.--84.108.221.53talk to me 12:57, January 24, 2014 (UTC)


 * I would consider that maybe "leaving the brakes on" is the way the time-lords teach flying the TARDIS- when one Time Lord teaches another how to fly a TARDIS, they leave the brakes on. This would be as a safety precaution, so that if a TARDIS is incoming, other Time Lords know, so can get out of the way because they could be atomised, as seen in The Doctor's Wife, or at the very least suddenly be in another time lord's TARDIS, as we have seen the TARDIS land before and bring those who were standing where it was about to land aboard the TARDIS, as in the Teselector in Let's Kill Hitler. However, we know that River wasn't initially taught by the Doctor, but by the TARDIS consciousness itself (LKH) so we can assume that she knows both ways. So I would say that she considers the noiseless landing to be skilful, as that was what the TARDIS taught her, but the Time Lords actually consider it reckless, as whether or not they know about silent landings, they choose to land making the noise. In regard to the original question, I think that the doctor knows both ways of landing, and chose to land silently for a sneaky entrance. Pondilicious ☎  07:36, April 28, 2014 (UTC)

How could the Doctor lie about having a plan?
Near the end of the episode the Doctor lies about having a plan. Isn't he standing in a truth field? Has he found a way to bypass it? Did the time lords turn it off at some point? I need answers... 109.52.168.25talk to me 23:41, February 4, 2014 (UTC)
 * Please bring this to Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/The Time of the Doctor. -- SOTO ( ☎ / ★ \ ♆ ) 23:52, February 4, 2014 (UTC)

Holographic Clothes
In the "References" section it says they use holographic clothes for "the Doctor to cover his nudity, Clara to appear naked". This statement confuses me. Clara didn't appear to be naked, she was naked. The holographic clothes served the same purpose for both of them, didn't it? I just wanted to confirm that I am not wrong before I edit the reference as its been there since January 7th, 2014 and nobody has corrected it. Also, does this actually belong in the "References" section? What does it refer to? Tzvi ☎  19:55, April 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree with you, as I saw it Clara was naked but used holographic clothes to appear clothed to herself (and the doctor?) so she didn't feel as anxious about walking in somewhere completely naked. And the plot section of the article itself even says "the Doctor gives Clara a pill so that she too will have holographic clothes, as nudity in the Papal Mainframe is considered a mark of respect", so I would say changing that is a good idea, or even deleting as it really does not reference any other story. Pondilicious ☎  07:23, April 28, 2014 (UTC)

Longest timespan of any story?
The article clearly says that this episode has the longest timespan of any story, as the 300+ years of the doctor living on Trenzalore makes the episode span 300+ years. However, The Big Bang spans, in total, from 102 AD to 1996 AD in one universe (1,894 years) and then goes up to 2010 in the rebooted universe, a span of 1,908 years in total. Unless the doctor spent another 1,600+ years on Trenzalore after Clara was sent back the second time, then surely the longest time span of any episode is that of The Big Bang. Pondilicious ☎  07:17, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * It says, "This story takes place over a longer amount of time than any other, with the Doctor having lived at least three hundred years (and probably far more) since the beginning of the episode." It's probably poorly worded, but it's referencing a span of The Doctor's life, not the earliest time period to the latest time period that the episode covers. We know from Tales of Trenzalore: The Eleventh Doctor's Last Stand that he spent a total of 900 years on Trenzalore. Has there been an incarnation that's aged more than 900 years in a single story? Mewiet ☎  08:52, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see this as a poorly worded attempt to state that its the most the doctor's aged in a story, it clearly says "takes place over a longer time period" which would imply that the person who originally wrote this is trying to say that this is the longest time period shown by an episode. I think that if it were worded such that it was aimed to say that this was the longest span of the Doctor's life shown in one episode, then it makes sense. But otherwise, TBB is the tip of the iceberg, if we consider episodes where part way through the doctor changes time periods, like in Utopia we jump from the 2000's to the year 100 trillion, the end of the universe. Pondilicious ☎  17:48, April 28, 2014 (UTC)

silence shaping events
Quote from the page "Prisoner Zero's statement "Silence will fall" was what started the great mystery of the Silence. Since then all the adventures The Doctor has had from then to arriving to Trenzalore have been shaped by the Silence. Having learned what the Silence truly were, all remaining questions regarding them answered, and having averted the future they feared would come to pass, the Doctor's regeneration signifies the end of the mystery." - When was it stated that they shaped every episode of the matt smith era,there were many episodes like Amy's choice,Vincent and the doctor,hungry earth,a Christmas carol,asylum of the daleks,dinosaurs on a spaceship,the girl who waited,angels take manhatten and the rest of series 7 part two except the finale which had nothing to do with the silence whatsoever,no cracks,no kovarian,no river songand so On.so how could they have shaped the matt smith era?

2016 date and Clara's age.
The claim on this page that the Clara's Christmas with family stems from the fact that Straxx says she is now 27 (24 plus 3 years). As we saw with the Ponds people who travel part-time with the Doctor age at the normal rate, but are older than they should be according to friends and relatives. The simplest answer is it was Christmas 2013 her father thought Clara was 24/25, but with 2/3 years spent out of time travelling with the Doctor, Clara is physically 27. So the year should be 2013. 101.179.11.178talk to me 01:59, October 6, 2014 (UTC)
 * Is there some date that you can point to visually on screen that shows the date as 2013? If not, we simply do not know and cannot assume that the present day scenes match our current year. The dating has been a mess since the show jumped ahead in the Ponds' timeline and gave contradictory information about their current year. Since Kate Stewart first met Eleven back in The Power of Three and knew him for the Year of the Slow Invasion (which was at least 2015, if not later, given The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe, Pond Life, and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship) that meeting already happened for her as of The Day of the Doctor. Based on that, Clara's present time as of TDOTD should be at least 2016 or later. But, since we couldn't come up with a consensus for dates on those episodes, we can't come up with anything about the dates of the episodes that come after them. Mewiet ☎  02:55, October 6, 2014 (UTC)

Clara the Paradoxical Girl
When Clara managed to get the Time Lords to give the Doctor a new regeneration cycle, shouldn't that create an enormous paradox? The Doctor only knew Clara in the first place because she went into his time stream in Trenzalore, created from his death there. So shouldn't her preventing this mean she'd never be able to meet the Doctor and reach Trenzalore in the first place? User:Redjirachi 15:03 October 8, 2014 (NZT)
 * Again, this is a question that is probably best suited for the forums. Nevertheless, it's possible that the Time Lords took steps to ensure that a paradox would be avoided somehow. Slughorn42 ☎  02:09, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Multiple centuries on one planet
A Continuity entry said this was the second time the Doctor spent over a century on a single planet, with Orbis being the first. That's not true (111 years stuck on Earth in the EDAs, at least 150 years without leaving Gallifrey per Divided Loyalties, etc.), but it doesn't affect the main point—that this time was similar to Orbis, including similar presumably-age-related forgetfulness. And alternate-timeline Doctors who were similarly aged also had memory problems, like the legless 6th in Jubilee. So, rather than removing it, I just changed it to say this wasn't the first time, rather than that it was the second. --50.0.128.145talk to me 12:38, December 23, 2016 (UTC)