Howling:The Night of The Doctor

Before you read further, please make sure you have seen the mini-episode. This thread will contain major spoilers. The mini-episode can be found on BBC iplayer.

To put it simply, the mini-episode was amazing. I haven't even seen the TV Movie but in six minutes Paul managed to convince me that he was thoroughly worthy of being a Doctor. I love how the first half is a twist on the scenario of The Doctor finding a potential companion, sweeping the off their feet and taking them to his TARDIS, complete with the "bigger on the inside reaction". And the way he stays on the ship as it is crashing says so much about this Doctor in a really clever way. I am so pleased that we all finally know how 8 regenerated, too. The Sisterhood of Karn were an interesting presence too. I'm starting to think they may be the way round the regeneration limit - maybe they give Hurt unlimited regenerations for fighting or something. Apparently there was a line about the Big Finish audios too, which is a nice way of "canonising" them. I hope the BBC consider doing more with Paul McGann, because he has a lot of potential. Anyway, what were your thoughts on this episode? Personally, I now know for a fact that the 50th is in good hands, and am sure there will be more surprises in store for fans. 87.102.91.126talk to me 17:14, November 15, 2013 (UTC)

I completely agree with this. While the clues were always there that McGann was producing something in secret, this definitely came as a surprise. I'd personally have been happy enough with just the final two minutes, but we were given 8 full minutes which wove a brilliant and original story around his regeneration.

The link to the audios was short and simple; merely a namecheck of his more popular Big Finish companions. What I also particularly liked (and which I've yet to see posted anywhere else) is the symmetry this forms with the end of the TV Movie - Grace and Chang Lee were revived by the TARDIS and the Doctor remarked they'd both been somewhere he'd never been (truly dead). He finally got to go there at the end of his life (well, afterwards) before he regenerated into Hurt.

The BBC itself is suitably impressed with the performance of this minisode and it's appreciation by the fans and casual viewers alike. Over a million views on YouTube in one day is definitely something to be proud of. There are unconfirmed mutterings over on Gallifrey Base that BBC Worldwide called a meeting to discuss the unexpected popularity of this minisode; let's hope this leads to a spin-off series or a movie. Darren.pobatti ☎  17:04, November 16, 2013 (UTC)

Tell me Darren... Is the Movie worth watching? As I said I haven't seen it but I quite liked the Eighth Doctor in this. 87.102.91.126talk to me 21:23, November 16, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about Darren, but I think that any episode of Doctor Who is watching at least once. In this case, I watched it when it was originally on television, and I watched it again after it was finally released on DVD relatively recently. Without giving much away, I think it would be worth watching. Unfortunately, it seems that McGann goes pretty far into the film before he realizes who he really is, and really becomes the Doctor. As a pilot for a new series, that works better than as a stand alone Doctor movie, as it turned out to be. I checked it out from my local public library, so it was worth everything I paid for it.

AS far as The Night of the Doctor is concerned, I applaud the obvious effort to produce it, but I was a little disappointed with how the story spun out. Maybe they had to leave some meaty drama for John Hurt to chew on, but I think the transition from a Doctor who helps wherever he can, but refuses to fight, to saying, "There is no need for a Doctor anymore," seemed too abrupt. It is not obvious to me that the entreaties of the Sisterhood even implied that radical of a decision. I happily recognized the Sisterhood before the Doctor arrived, and their ability to choose regenerations was an interesting touch.

But now in a sense the big question has been confused. From The Name of The Doctor, Hurt as the Doctor was the one who broke the promise. But it seems to me that what this episode shows is that McGann as the Doctor chose to become a "Doctor" who would break the promise, who would not be "The Doctor." Perhaps I am taking the dialogue to literally. Or perhaps, as I said before, the big speech, the big explanation, is being saved for Hurt.Phil Stone ☎  00:53, November 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * No I felt the same. That line and decision totally confused the issue of who broke the promise, I don't think just sticking the word "war" on front of the word "doctor" really significantly modifies the meaning of the latter word which is the promise and I was confused by the suggestion if the Doctor didn't take one of the sisterhood's potions he would just die and the Doctor's story would end with his eight incarnation. But then story is really powerful and impressive.DCT ☎  16:57, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

If you haven't already seen the 1996 TV Move, I really suggest you do. There are a number of general complaints made about the movie, in fact at times that seems to be all that people do about this, but don't be fooled - the movie is and always has been very much a part of the TV series, and if you can put the occasional contradiction behind you (things like the Doctor's "half-human" comment) you'll find an enjoyable and entertaining adventure there.

It's not among Doctor Who's all-time greatest stories, but it does feature the Seventh Doctor reprising his role years after the TV series ended, and regenerating into the Eighth incarnation - as well as a particularly memorable appearance by Eric Roberts as The Master.

It's not the sort of episode people usually find themselves re-watching over and over, put it's definitely something you do need to experience at least once - and it's even more significant thanks to Night of The Doctor as these two stories bookend the Eighth Doctor's life and bridge the otherwise significant gap between the classic series and modern era. 86.7.93.11talk to me 14:19, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

@DCT - The Eight Doctor could easily have regenerated on his own (at least I thought so), the Sisterhood just gave him the ability to become a specific chosen kind of person as opposed to getting a random outcome. After what happened with the crash of the ship and someone outright refusing his help because he was a Time Lord, he saw that the Time War had spread too far and too deep, that his normal way of doing things simply wouldn't and couldn't work anymore, not in a Universe in that current state (he may have encountered similar situations prior to this, but this was the one that finally drove the point home for him), so he took it upon himself to take a form that could and would end the Time War once and for all for the sake of everyone, as Hurt's Doctor would later say, "In the name of peace and sanity." I'm sure, though, that we'll get better clarification of the details in the 50th. —BioniclesaurKing4t2 - "Hello, I'm the Doctor. Basically, . . . run." 18:12, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I was under the impression that he decided to become a "war doctor" due to the events on the crashing ship more than The Sisterhood's request. After all, what happened on the ship looked like it was going to be just another picking up of a companion up until the moment where Cass suddenly refuses to go with him. 87.102.91.126talk to me 19:05, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

That may be the case, but its not how I understand the flow of the episode. The Doctor clearly regrets Cass's death, but it is Ohica's plea invoking her which seems to turn the tide. "She would say nothing to me," he says. Ohica responds, "She would plead with you..." The whole universe is at stake, and the Sisterhood is pleading with the Doctor, by putting words to Cass's outrage, to engage in ending the conflict, rather than just helping on the edges.

He told Cass that not only is he not part of the war, but he never was. Which means he didn't quit the Time Lord's side because of what they became. The Doctor stayed out of this war from the very beginning. He has fought and defeated the Daleks many times before. And how many wars have we seen him avert, or end? What was it about this one that he allowed it to go on without trying to stop it? Because he could see no way of stopping it? Or because he knew from the outset that there was only one way to stop it? It was The Doctor, living up to his promise, that had defeated the Daleks, and ended so many wars before now. Why did he think he could not end the war as The Doctor? Did he see a parallel with the Cyber War and believe the end would be just as awful? Or were the Wars even more closely connected? Had the Time Lords acted unforgivably from the start?

Does Ohica somehow know this? "The man to end it all..." stands aside. Another Doctor might do just the same. So give him a choice to be something else, someone who will act? And through his acting, save the universe, but perhaps also obtain the Sisterhood's ultimate revenge upon the Time Lords?

The role of the Sisterhood is curious. Cass's ship computer, while asking her to state the nature of her medical emergency, speaks not of a medical response, but a magical response. But when Ohica speaks of the regenerative potions, she speaks of "Time Lord science." And when the Doctor makes his selection, we learn Ohica has prepared it herself. To get the sort of Doctor she believes is needed? I think that there may be much more to this than she lets on. Phil Stone ☎  03:41, November 19, 2013 (UTC)

I believe that the beginning of BioniclesaurKing4t2 - "Hello, I'm the Doctor. Basically, . . . run.", November 18, 2013 post is in error. I will not repeat the words here because they are from a huge spoiler for those who have not watched it yet, but 2:20 minutes into The Night of the Doctor, and again at 2:45 minutes, and especially at 4:30 minutes, I think it is made very clear how there are now many more regenerations left for the Doctor. ANone ☎  19:52, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

Firstly, I must agree with the remark about Paul McGann. Having never seen the movie (for which I have no good excuse) it tends to slip my mind that he played the Doctor. I loved him in Luther, and as soon as the minisode started, it finally clicked in my head that I had forgotten his previous role as the Doctor, and in the following seven-or-so minutes, I deeply regretted having never seen the movie. He was a fantastic Doctor, and I loved his random quips ("Because the front crashes first, think it through.") I would be well on-board with the idea of them doing a spin-off miniseries with him, to give him some more time in the role. It would be a great placeholder between current seasons, and would alleviate the agony of waiting so long between them. --Saghan ☎  06:46, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Saghan: Although I'm no great fan of the movie, which I think was mishandled, it is worth seeing & is available on DVD. I'm not sure if it's available online or not but it's worth looking, just in case. The problem with it isn't that it was Americanised but that it was Americanised badly, which is why it didn't work for the US audience any better than it did for the British one. It's not terrible -- just nowhere near as good as it could have been & should have been & needed to be, in order to restart the show (which was what it was meant to do). --89.241.217.89talk to me 17:14, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

Just saw the movie. It wasn't that good overall, but there were a few moments I liked. It is, as 89 said, worth seeing (more to familiarise yourself with The Eighth Doctor than anything) but not a great deal more than that. 87.102.91.126talk to me 18:29, March 19, 2014 (UTC)