Howling:How Series 6 Should Have Been

Some fans were not pleased with the structure of Series 6, and I know someone also thought this on another discussion, because they felt it was slightly too rushed. Some of the episodes were not completely suited to be one parters. Here's how I think it should have been:

A break, like there was in the real series.
 * The Impossible Astronaut
 * Day of the Moon
 * Curse of the Black Spot
 * The Doctor's Wife
 * The Almost People (squeezing the whole ganger thing into one episode)
 * A Good Man Goes to War
 * Let's Kill Hitler
 * Night Terrors
 * The Girl Who Waited
 * The God Complex
 * Closing Time
 * (a sort of first part to the finale, with a title I made up): The Universe of Chaos
 * The Wedding of River Song

As you can probably tell I wasn't a fan of the ganger episodes (they were so boring) but the alternate universe we saw in the finale was a good idea, I thought, and they could have incorporated a sub plot into the finale had they made it a two parter. I'm interested if anyone else thought the series structure was flawed. 77.86.9.25talk to me 16:49, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

so, basically what you're saying is, make the ganger episodes one episode and make the finale a two parter. i wouldn't say the structure was flawed, just that some of the episodes needed a different ammount of time compared to what was given.

ps, i agree Imamadmad talk to me 20:59, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well, not everyone liked the structure. Some didn't like that it opened with a two parter. Some didn't like the break in the middle. I'm just interested in which things most didn't feel right about the Series. 77.86.9.25talk to me 21:38, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

The "ganger" two-parter did have its flaws and it might have been better compressed into one episode. The finalé was, I fully agree, far too rushed and had a much stronger claim on the extra episode than the "ganger" story. The finalé was more fun and also had more story. --89.241.67.8talk to me 01:48, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

I pretty much agree with 77. The only thing that I would do differently would be to cut out Night Terrors, which was by far the weakest episode of the season, and make A Good Man Goes to War into a 2-parter. I also don't think that a show that only has 13 episodes in a season should really have a mid-season break. The Wedding of River Song definetly would have worked better as a 2-parter though, and The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People would have worked much better as a single part episode.Icecreamdif talk to me 15:13, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

I can see why you might not have liked Night Terrors, but I quite enjoyed it. I was considering moving NT into the first part of the series on the list, because it had a much lighter tone that would have felt better there, but then I remembered the creepy nursery rhyme, which actually turned out to be a good incorporation to the whole story arc of the Doctor dying. Had it been in the place of episode 3 or something the nursery rhyme arc might not have been as effective. If the Gangers had not been important to the arc I would probably have scrapped TRF/TAP entirely. 94.72.237.220talk to me 16:53, January 17, 2012 (UTC) and yes my IP adress has changed from 77 to 94.

The nursery rhyme was all right, although it didn't quite make sense that the dolls would know the Doctor's fate, or that Kovarian would know the nursery rhyme, but overall the episode wasn't very good. Oftentimes, just going with a monster that is designed to be scary ends up just feeling kind of gimicky. Moffat was very good at doing good scary stories back when RTD was in charge, but noone else seems to be as good at it. Stories like The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances or Blink had good stories in addition to scary monsters. Night Terrors, however, just had a pretty boring story. Besides, A Good Man Goes to War really should have been a two parter.Icecreamdif talk to me 19:14, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

Let's Kill Hitler could have been a two parter simply because it would mean Mels would not seem like a last minute idea. The finale was a tad rushed too.--82.11.57.232talk to me 20:33, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

The only way that Mels would have really worked would have been if they had introduced her before A Good Man Goes to War. I mean, did anybody actually not figure out who Mels was as soon as they heard her name, after having learned River's real name. If Mels had been introduced before we learned the name "Melody Pond," then the revelation that she was actually River would probably have been shocking, but as it was it was pretty obvious. Introducing her earlier would also have given them more time to establish the character so that it wouldn't seem like she just came out of nowhere.Icecreamdif talk to me 03:43, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

also, they had a part mentioning the name mels in one of the preview clips on the bbc website before lets kill hitler aired, which yet again removed more of the mystery from her as anyone who had seen the clips would probably have made the connection before the character was even introduced properly in her mels form. the name should have deffinately been mentioned all the way back in series 5, preferably in 11th hour, which would have made it a lot less obvious that mels was melody. unless they wanted it to be that mels only grew up with amy and rory in the renewed timeline. and don't criticise me for spoiling things for myself.

also, i liked night terrors. it was a simpler story, but a good one all the same. although it could have looked better for me because it was surrounded by bad episodes on either side. just imo. and the nursery rhyme was suggested to be a well known one in wedding of river song (winston churchill said something along the lines of "tick tock goes the clock. that's what the old nursery rhyme says. but they don't, do they doctor"). Imamadmad talk to me 05:02, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Well, everyone has their own opinions of which episodes are better. Personally, while I thought that Let's Kill Hitler was not one of the season's better episodes, it was still better than Night Terrors, and The Girl Who Waited was one of the season's better episodes. Anyway, Mels should definetly have been mentioned back in season 5. When I first heard her name in the preview clip, I assumed that we would spend the next several months on these forums speculating as to whether or not Mels and River were the same person, but instead she just regenerated 10 minutes after she was introduced. Since she was the one who got Amy and Rory to go out together in the first place, I think we have to assume that that is how the timeline always worked. My guess would be that the reason that she wasn't mentioned in season 5 was that Moffat hadn't come up with that particular plot point yet. I have no idea how far ahead he plans these things, but I'm guessing that she would have made some kind of appearance if he had come up with her as early as The Eleventh Hour. Still, he could have given her a cameo or something in Let's Kill Hitler, though perhaps he decided that three Rivers (four if you count the version in Amy's womb (well, I guess it was just Ganger-Amy)) was more than enough for one episode.Icecreamdif talk to me 05:22, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Moffat may not have thought of Mels before the Series 5 scripts were finalised and, in any case, there wasn't that much room in The Eleventh Hour to introduce her. Her absence from the wedding in The Big Bang was (sort of) explained in retrospect. Introducing her earlier in Series 6 would have been better, however, especially if it had been done before A Good Man Goes to War, so that we knew she was the friend after whom Amy named her daughter. The similarity of name would then have seemed quite normal. Even when River revealed that she was Melody Pond, Mels would still have seemed like a separate character -- just the source of the name Melody. In terms of story arc, Night Terrors could have been dispensed with but story arc isn't (certainly shouldn't be) everything. It was a good story in itself. The Doctor's Wife is in the same category, not essential to the story arc but well worth having for its own sake. --89.242.76.108talk to me 07:39, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Thinking about it further, the "preamble" sequence at the start of The Impossible Astronaut might have been the place to introduce Mels, as a friend of Amy and Rory who knew something of -- but had never met -- the Doctor. When the Doctor's intrusion into the Laurel and Hardy film was shown (and missed by both Amy and Rory), Mels could have been there and seen it. We'd then have thought the Ponds had just missed the chance to tell her, "That was the Doctor," -- one mild comedy touch among others that didn't seem very important to the plot. --89.242.76.108talk to me 07:55, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

There was clearly enough room in The Eleventh Hour for the Doctor to meet other, much more inconsequential, residents of Leadworth. It would probably have been hard, but not impossible, to introduce Mels at the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut. However, the scenes in Leadworth in that episode would have to have been longer if they were going to introduce a new character. Night Terrors was not just despensible in terms of story arc, but it would have been a bad episode in any season. It certainly wasn't in the same category as The Doctor's Wife or The Girl Who Waited, which were both amazing episodes. Overall, it was just a very weak episode. George's character wasn't developed beyond a few minor quirks, like the lights, and he just didn't do much throughout the episode apart from being afraid. The mother, who probably should have been an important character, dissappeared at the beginning, and the father was far to willing to believe that the Doctor was an alien. The other residents of the building were just boring, and Amy and Rory had no role in the story apart from being chased by giant dolls.Icecreamdif talk to me 18:21, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

The point, in The Eleventh Hour, about the other residents of Leadworth that we met is that they were inconsequential. We didn't need to get to know them. Of course, Mels could have appeared as a similar "background" character. She'd still have needed to be (re)introduced in Series 6, though, and I can't think of anywhere except the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut where that could have been done without tipping us off too much that she was going to turn out to be important. The explanation of why she'd not been at the wedding could have been done there, too. If Mels had said something about wanting to meet the Doctor she'd heard so much about, Amy might have said, "If you'd been at the wedding, you'd have met him. You could even have danced with him." Then Mels could have said her bit about not doing weddings. Where Night Terrors is concerned, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree: I liked it, you didn't -- matter of taste and no point arguing. --78.146.176.218talk to me 19:07, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Personally, I found TGWW as my second least favourite, after the Ganger two parter. I mean, come on, Amy, when in the history of reality itself has pressing a red button EVER caused anything good to happen? I'd have expected better from a companion of the Doctor himself. 94.72.237.220talk to me 19:19, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Rory and the Doctor had just pressed what she thought was the same button without any negative side effects, and some of the Doctor's companions are much dumber. Anyway, 78 is right in that different people like different episodes. I liked The Girl Who Waited, and you didn't. Anyway, the revelation that Mels was actually River would have worked much better if she had been introduced as a seemingly inconsequential character. Nobody would have really suspected it if she was just introduced in the context of being just another Leadworth resident who is friends with Amy and Rory, and we got to know most of them a little bit. Moffat could have easily established that Mels was a friend of Amy and Rory's, who was obsessed with "the Raggedy Doctor" (who everyone in that episode had heard of anyway), and who regularly broke the law back in The Eleventh Hour. It also could have worked for her to be present at Amy and Rory's wedding, though that could have caused a paradox since she was already there. It wouldn't have been impossible for Moffat to introduce or reintroduce Mels at the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut, but he would have pretty much have had to change the entire opening to make it work. Icecreamdif talk to me 20:57, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I liked The Girl Who Waited, too. In fact, I think it's one of the best episodes in Series 6. Again, it's a matter of taste and arguing about it will get nowhere. Having Mels present at the start of The Impossible Astronaut wouldn't have meant changing the entire opening, though -- extending it a little, probably, but not redesigning it totally. She ought to have been introduced before she was and she ought to have been introduced so she seemed just part of Amy and Rory's background. Her propensity to break the law ought to have been mentioned and Amy ought, at some point, have told her to keep out of trouble. If done in the comedic context of the opening of The Impossible Astronaut, that would merely have seemed like more comedy, with the audience (us) thinking, "Look who's talking!" We should definitely have been told enough to make it seem natural, in A Good Man Goes to War, that Amy named her daughter after Mels. In terms of the structure of the series, the break between A Good Man Goes to War and Let's Kill Hitler did have one disadvantage (apart from making us a bit impatient) -- it gave us too much time to think. Misdirections that would have held OK for a week might not have held over the much longer gap between those two episodes. If that's why Moffat decided not to introduce Mels earlier, then the break did do narrative damage. --89.242.71.102talk to me 00:30, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with all the people complaining that Mels was too much of a gimmee. Background buzz at the wedding, end of season five: "Where is Mels? In jail again?" Picture on Amy's wall. Voice of Mels walking out as Amy gets the mail with the blue invitation, saying "Bye, Rory!" in thatbored voice. All stuff that could be added in post-production. Boblipton talk to me 01:26, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

I think that introducing Mels in The Impossible Astronaut would have seemed random, and would have messed up the pacing, as the scene was written. However, if the opening had been different, with less emphasis on seeing the Doctor's exploits and more on seeing Amy and Rory in Leadworth, then introducing Mels there could have worked. Really though, she should have been introduced back in season 5.Icecreamdif talk to me 15:12, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

When in Series 5? One of the problems is that, until Let's Kill Hitler, Mels was supposed only to have heard of the Doctor, not to have met him. In Series 5, we saw very little of Amy without the Doctor being present. This has been discussed before in http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Howling:Mels(now archived) and possibly in other discussions I've not managed to track down yet. Ideally, Mels should have been introduced early on. Doing that, while keeping her from meeting the Doctor would have meant showing more of Amy's life when she wasn't with the Doctor. That could have been done and it could probably have been done without tipping us off that the reason was Mels -- by making it look like we were just being given Amy's background -- but it couldn't have been done without significant changes to Series 5 episodes. As it was, the only episode in Series 5 that was set substantially in Leadworth was The Eleventh Hour. That episode was about introducing the new incarnation of the Doctor and introducing Amy (to each other and to us). The episode already had enough work to do. Introducing Mels, as well, while managing to keep her from meeting the Doctor would have been too much more to tackle. When else in Series 5 could Mels have been introduced -- bearing in mind that she'd have to be introduced without giving us reason to think she might turn out to be important, later? --89.241.64.85talk to me 02:05, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

well, she could have been at the weding for starters or in a picture in amy's house or something like that. if rtd could do it with mr saxon and bad wolf, i'm sure moffat could have figgured out a way if he tried. Imamadmad talk to me 02:46, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

One place Mels could perhaps have been mentioned was Amy's Choice. That was (mostly) set in a dream of Leadworth but in the dream Amy was pregnant, so there could have been dialogue about naming the child after Mels. The Doctor: "Who's Mels?" Rory: "Her best friend. She's a nutter. Always getting herself arrested." Amy: "She's not a nutter and she doesn't mean to get arrested!" Rory: "Neither did Crippin." (Please don't advise me against trying for a career as a dialogue writer. I don't intend to -- and that's only meant to be a rough example, anyway.) --89.241.64.85talk to me 02:51, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

There is no reason why they couldn't have made Mels meet the Doctor back in The Eleventh Hour. They could have justified not having her try to kill him because it would create a paradox preventing her birth if she killed him before she was convieved. In the context of the episode, Mels would have looked like just another Leadworth citizen who the Doctor met during that episode. Imamadmad is also right in saying that she could have appeared at the wedding.Icecreamdif talk to me 03:10, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

It's not just the question of whether or not she'd try to kill the Doctor that matters. In Doctor Who, they (and we, I assume) wouldn't want the Doctor to look thick for having failed to work out who Mels was or, at minimum, that she was somehow already connected with him. --89.242.75.47talk to me 10:25, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

we could have seen her in 11th hour but not heard her name, and then latter have amy mention her name at a point when the doctor wasn't around to connect the dots. Imamadmad talk to me 12:43, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

It's not her name that's the real problem. If we'd known her name and (by the relevant time) known that Amy named her daughter after her friend, the name connection would have seemed fully explained. That would be the case for the Doctor, too, in the absence of other clues. Even in The Eleventh Hour, with various people going on about "the raggedy Doctor", this girl's fascination with the Doctor would have stood out. It could have been done, of course, if it had been done carefully, and it's certain that something should have been done to introduce her earlier than Let's Kill Hitler. --78.146.184.20talk to me 12:56, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

The Doctor wouldn't have looked to thick for not noticing. Apart from the fact that he was still regenerating at the time, and is generally a bit off when doing so, pretty much everyone in town was excited to see the "Raggedy Doctor." Mels' obsession with him would just just be seen as it was suppossed to be seen in the flashbacks in Let's Kill Hitler; he was Amy's imaginary friend, who Mels played make believe about with Amy as a child. It wouldn't have stood out anymore than Amy's fascination with him, and it would have worked if done properly.Icecreamdif talk to me 16:24, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

I don't know about anyone else, but personally I think "The Gunpowder Plot" should have been converted into an episode and one of the bad episodes made into an Adventure Game. Just my opinion. 94.72.237.220talk to me 16:35, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

What bad episodes? There were episodes that weren't as good as they ought to have been but none was actually bad. --89.242.70.169talk to me 16:52, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Well, the Ganger two parter could have been reduced to one episode, leaving space for TGP to be converted into TV format. The first Adventure Game could be one with the Gangers perhaps. 94.72.237.220talk to me 23:18, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps. A better use of the extra episode, though, would (as various people have said, above) have been to expand the finalé. --2.96.27.207talk to me 08:54, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

At first I agreed with the people above, but now I'm not too sure. There isn't really much more they could have done with the finale. Making it an hour long might have worked out, but making the whole story an hour and thirty minutes long overall would have become a bit boring. There's no reason they can't have a flashback to something that happened in the 5:02 universe if they want to explore the concept further. 94.72.237.220talk to me 11:18, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

On a different note, the main reason I think TGP should have been an episode is because of the Rutans. Adults are much less likely to go on the Adventure Games, so the whole nostalgia tour of bringing back the green jellyfish is slightly wasted on kids. They really needed more classic enemies returning in this Series. We had the Daleks in S1, the Cybermen in S2, the Master in S3, the Sontarans in S4, the Silurians in S5, there are plenty of enemies left to choose from but for Series 6 all they decide to do is bring back the Cybermats. It was quite disappointing. If the Rutans were to return in S6, it should have been in an episode, not a game that is mostly child-orientated. 94.72.237.220talk to me 11:18, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

With the Silents in Series 6, the Rutans would have caused problems. Both races use electrical attacks but the Rutans do it very much more effectively than the Silents do. Having the Rutans in the series would have undermined the main monsters badly. "You call that a zap? This is a zap!" (Apologies to Crocodile Dundee.) --78.146.187.216talk to me 14:05, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

It's funny you mention that, because I noticed the similarities between the Silents and the Rutans when I read "The Sontaran Games", as both seem to draw power form electrical sources and use it as a weapon. It would be interesting if the two ever met, and even MORE interesting if they battled each other, but unlikely. Anyway, I wasn't just suggesting that it had to be the Rutans, my main point was that Moffat should have brought back a better classic enemy than the Cybermats. In my opinion, not doing so was one of the Series greatest flaws. 94.72.237.220talk to me 17:16, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

The cybermats certainly weren't a great enemy to bring back but I don't think most viewers would really judge the series on whether or not a classic enemy reappeared. All the classic enemies were new once. If a new enemy is good enough, it'll be seen as classic before too long. The real question isn't "classic or not?" but "good or not?" --78.146.187.216talk to me 17:52, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

The main difference is that in the Classic era they couldn't bring back enemies from a previous era because there was no previous era to bring them back from. The New era has that advantage that the old version didn't and yet Moffat didn't seem to take it when he made Series 6. I'd be surprised if nobody agrees with me that the lack of old enemies was a bit of a letdown. 94.72.237.220talk to me 18:47, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

One of the problems encountered by the series in the 1980s was that it was seen as harking back to the past too much. I'd be surprised if nobody agrees with you but I'd be equally surprised if nobody disagrees. And remember that "previous era" is a flexible term: in Patrick Troughton's day, it meant "when William Hartnell played the Doctor"; in Jon Pertwee's time, it meant "the era of the First and Second Doctors"; when Tom Baker arrived, Pertwee's version was added -- and so on... Even before Hartnell left, there were already people saying "Doctor Who isn't what it used to be." The BBC got letters about it. --2.96.26.161talk to me 19:30, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Well one of the reasons that bringing back classic enemies in the 80s didn't work too well is that that was before the days of reruns and DVDs. Today, with DVDs and the internet there most fans have seen the old episodes much more recently. The problem with the 80s was that the writing quality went down, not that they were bringing back classic enemies. I also wish that we had gotten a better classic enemy than the Cybermats to return this season, but if a new classic enemy returns every season, they will eventually run out of good ones. Even in the classic series, there were only a handful that made multiple appearances, and most of them have been in the new series by now. I think they should bring the Ice Warriors back next though. Anyway, this season completely underutilized the enemies that have already been brought back to the new series. Admittedly, Strax has probably gotten more characterization than any other Sontaran, and Vastra was more interesting than most Silurians, but that's still only one Sontaran and one Silurian. Closing Time was a good episode, but it wasn't really about the Cybermen, and this season was pathetic in terms of Dalek screen time. Every other season has had at least one 2-parter focused on a classic enemy, but this one didn't. The finale also would definetly have worked better as a 2-parter. The first half could have been more focused on the all of history happenning at once aspect. A viewer who missed the first 5 minutes might not have even been able to figure out that all of history was happenning at once. The second half could then have been focused on the Doctor working with Amy, River, and Rory to try to fix it. Another huge problem with the finale was the scene where River called all of the people who liked the Doctor to tell him not to die. That scene should have been the much more optomistic opposite of scenes in The Pandorica Opens and A Good Man Goes to War. However, in The Pandorica Opens, we had River listing all of the species who came, a sky filled with alien space ships, and a huge crowd shot of different aliens to show how many people considered the Doctor to be a villain. In A Good Man Goes to War, we saw a huge anti-Doctor rally. Then, in The Wedding of River Song, River Song just gave the Doctor a really high number to tell him how many people in the universe considered him a hero. We really should have seen the aliens and ships, or at least gotten some examples of who showed up. A season finale, especially one that has been built up to by a season long arc, should not be a single 45 minute episode. That is just stupid.Icecreamdif talk to me 22:02, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

There are plenty of classoc enemies to bring back, if you space them out to appear one to a Series. To list a few: Rutans, Zygons, Ice Warriors, Sea Devils, Ogrons, Sil, Omega, the Kandyman, and the Rani (assuming she's not the Doctor, or River, or Wilf, or Amy, or Dorium, or Kovarian, or Donna, or Rose, or Martha, or Captain Jack and has appeared already). By the time all these enemies and others have returned you can bring back aliens from Series 1 of New Who and people will consider them as "classic". 94.72.237.220talk to me 22:50, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. The list above was of enemies I would like to see return, I don't have any knowledge of whether or not Moffat has considered bringing any of them back. 94.72.237.220talk to me 22:50, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Well if one-off enemies like the Zygons, the Sea Devils or the Kandyman count, then there are enough classic enemies to last for decades. Even the Rutans are only one off enemies, but their return is a bit more likely due to their relationship with the Sontarans. And didn't Sil die in Trial of a Time Lord? Icecreamdif talk to me 01:36, January 29, 2012 (UTC)