User talk:CzechOut

Please note that I will not respond to unsigned posts. I urge you to remember to add four tildes at the end of your post, because '''this is required by wiki policy. Please do not use unsigned on this page, unless you are signing after-the-fact for yourself.

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Hartnell episodes
Related to what you said earlier about stories sharing the same name as William Hartnell-era episodes, there's The Roof of the World (the redirect to the episode) and The Roof of the World (audio story). Little confused about what action to take here, though I'm guessing the current state's non-standard. - 01:59, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Similarly, The Traitors and The Traitors (short story). -- Tybort (talk page) 11:57, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguating and redirects
fallen angel should be at either Fallen Angel or Fallen angel. As there's a pre-existing page, moving it myself just makes an error message. -- Tybort (talk page) 15:51, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

250px
I spent about twenty minutes reading the piece you posted to my talk page, an hour thinking about it. Then I went back and reread it, making notes. I'm sure you realize that you asked direct questions, betrayed unspoken assumptions and raised questions without intending to. The matters involve include issues of philosophy, good writing, possibly outdated wiki policy and the question about whether one size fits all -- there are few people here who know how to use a semi-colon and among those who do, there is a tendency to overuse them. Should they, therefore, be outlawed in these pages? That's a question that will underline almost all of this long reply. You may view it as presumptive of me to say everyone else is wrong and I alone am right. Nonetless, that is what I am going to do here, as if I were to say no one should use a semi-colon but me. You're going to say "no" as a matter of public policy and I understand. Nonetheless, I still assert it. While I make my case -- perhaps my Apologia before you order me to drink that tasty hemlock, I ask you to understand that I have written what appears below with a self-aware twinkle in my eye.

Let's start with the general and head towards the specific: the larger the piece, the more tightly it should be edited. Looking at, say, the page on The Doctor, we see it is 45,000 bytes and has probably twenty articles hanging from it, including his name, his age, each incarnation, his scarf...it's huge. Adding more words and pictures should be done only when absolutely neessary. Pictures should be chosen on grounds of utility and aesthetics; happily, we've got a bunch of pictures of him. Them. Whatever. A bunch to choose from. Articles of similar size and importance (I note without comment that the article on Jack Harkness is close to 80,000 bytes; I won't more than mention that I recently chopped out of the page on Amy Pond the remarable fact that she once dropped an ice cream) should be treated with similar circumspection. This is one of my peeves about the article on River Song, about half the length (in part, I immodestly state, because I go through it two or three times a week to trim it). The triptych at the top is good and the shot of her from The Big Bang saying "Yes!" is excellent, but the others are awful, badly composed, shot too dark and with regeneration energy obscuring. We've got enough good pictures of her that we don't need bad ones.

When you examine the tiny articles, however, you are confronted with the opposite problem. We know there are no small parts, only short ones, but when all we know of a particular actor is that he was, say, a Greek in The Myth Makers, is it too much to put a picture of him on the page? What if the only picture I can locate without copyright issues is the one of him on the character page? Yes, I would like a head shot in civvies, but that's all there is. No one is going to bother going back oto the other page, and adding a picture to an article that is 500 bytes is not going to strain anyone's attention span.

From these extreme cases, I derive a general rule of good writing: long articles should be edited to the bone. Short articles should be granted some leeway so the subject can warn people to stand aside, this one takes big steps.

Unhappily for you as an administrator, these decisions require judgment, and consensus, two commodities always in short supply and almost invariably opposed to each other. You hanker for hard rules nd bright lines so you don't annoy people by showing favoritism. I don't envy you the responsibility. I, on the other hand, do have judgment and have used it for forty years in making a living by saying the consensus is wrong. While I regret the headaches it will cause you, consensus must be revisted at least occasionally lest the sins of the fathers be visited on the sons..... and more frequently if my judgment says they are wrong. A single photo of an actor in costume in his one DWU role makes the article better than it was without it.Boblipton talk to me 20:01, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

I suoppose the simplest solution is to simply not post any more pictures. Boblipton talk to me 21:23, December 12, 2011 (UTC)\

I disagree with them. Boblipton talk to me 21:33, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

I understand your issues. I have agreed to abide by the rules you have imposed. Boblipton talk to me 22:51, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

They are too simplistic and too rigid. They do not permit me to make judgments and rather than read them carefully and regularly and do the extra work involved in making the decision each time as to whether a particular image falls inside or outside the narrow bright line of what is permitted, it's easier, more productive and less frustrating to avoid adding the pictures. It may seem to you that I see a picture, I add it on. Not true. I decide about a third of the time not to include a picture because it doesn't meet my standards. It's hard enough for me to work out what I think is right, let alone what a doen strangers thought was right three years ago. I believe the time I have to work around here is better served otherwise. Boblipton talk to me 21:43, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

More confusion over what series this belongs to.
Are the stories collected in Wildthyme on Top Big Finish Iris Wildthyme audios? New Worlds stories? Both at once? -- Tybort (talk page) 22:55, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Painting out speech bubbles
Do we have a policy on this? Is it okay to "photoshop" an image a little bit to paint out speech bubbles to give us a usable image? Or is it better to leave the image 'as presented originally'? --Tangerineduel / talk 14:42, December 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Righty, that all makes sense.
 * I just wanted to be sure, as I've recently found my slightly dog-eared copy of The Dalek Chronicles and have been reading through/scanning some pages to populate the various stories with some images. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:50, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Customising
Hi. I'm an admin on the Simpsons Wiki, and I'm wondering how to do lots of customising. It's mainly the message notification and the badges. For the message thing, do you know how to change the 'message' to 'postcard' or 'owl' or something like that? Also, do you know how the leaderboard was changed to the Game of Rassilon? If you don't, can you please link me to who would? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Randomno (talk) 16:25, December 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi. Thanks for the info, I've changed some things. Could you please link me to how to change 'recent earned badges' and the leaderboard page title?

Preload
I see unable to add any template from the preload option at the side of the page. I click on a red link, go to the preload drop down, select character and nothing happens. Is there any reason why this is and how to fix it? MM/ Want to talk? 18:25, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Comics
Hello. I noticed you reverted my edits on Template:Doctor Who Wiki/Comics because they linked to non-existent pages. I can understand why people would have a problem with that, but surely there is more cause to create these pages - at least as stubs - than to link the page to old stories. The section is called "Latest Comics" and thus it is misleading for it to display old comics. The preceding comment was made by Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 23:20, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Stubs
I have, and I will hold my hands up to say I made a mistake. However, I not happy with the policy and will raise a forum discussion at some point in the future. They are important sections and if empty - especially if both are empty, the page should be made a stub. MM/ Want to talk? 00:02, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Unregistered user edit issue
When you've got a moment could you take a look at IP user's talk page; User_talk:41.132.228.79. It looks to be a Wiki-specific issue, though I'm not really sure what. We've got other IP/anon users so it can't be something affecting all anon users.

His edit summaries to the UNIT dating controversy article at first made me think he was a vandal, but [it looks like something as a result of him editing. Thanks. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / talk 13:58, December 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nope. I never use the visual editor.
 * But it must by the IP editor who is using the visual editor that's causing the problems. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:58, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

The CGCJ mixup
Ok, I've found out that User:Gangster Penguin was being used yesterday by Clones younger brother, since they share the IP (which you blocked) Clone is upset about this and would greatly apperciate it if you revoked his ban. After all, the Tardis Index file is Clone Gunner Commander Jedi's favorite wiki.

From the desk of Br1ck an1mator  16:38, December 19, 2011 (UTC) 13:44: Tue 20 Dec 2011

a request
I don't know how else to ask you this, so posting here to ask you to disable my account because I spend far too much time here. Thank you. --Stardizzy2 talk to me 01:13, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Hello, sir
Please forgive my deficiency to write in a proper British English, sir. I realized that you are the major technical administrator on this site, on which I have come to adore. In mentioning this, I have a query: How did you insert that calender/clock above the random page button? With your permission sir, I plan to use it on one of my wikis. Thank you for reading sir. Anakin Skyobiliviator ( talk ) 18:13, December 22, 2011 (UTC) 19:32: Thu 22 Dec 2011

Thank you
I appreciate you helpfulness. Anakin Skyobiliviator ( talk ) 03:56, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to disturb you again, sir.
But, do you know how to send a message to every user's talk page without going to everyone? Anakin Skyobiliviator ( talk ) 05:15, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Who?
Which person is the best to talk to? Anakin Skyobiliviator ( talk ) 05:50, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Uncategorised images
We have a fairly high number of uncategorised images. Since we will most likely have a large amount of images upload over the festive period (mainly images from the new special, as well as from new users who stick around). I'm wondering if you want to ran the bot through the uncategorised images and just delete them or if it would be best to add the licence tags to them.

I'm thinking this is best down before the 25th/26th, since that is the most likely time images will be added and deleteing the uncategorised ones now will save time in the future. So, what should we be doing? MM/ Want to talk? 13:11, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

New Earth (planet)
Should the planet from the TV story of the same really be ambiguated as "New Earth (planet)"? Granted, "New Earth (New Earth)" doesn't sound right either, but aren't ALL "New Earths" on the disambiguation page planets, so to speak? -- Tybort (talk page) 20:02, December 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * What about New Earth related categories? I assume that the other New Earths don't actually have enough individuals, stories set there or locations to require their OWN category, but is that still good form? -- Tybort (talk page) 03:16, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

thanks!
Thanks for the invitation to the forum! I've been waiting for one of these for ages! Metardis talk to me 19:58, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Mentions
I have noted that "mentions" is not working on multiple pages, notiably Omega and Dalek. Is there a way to fix this? --OS24 02:08, December 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes, right, sorry. Merry Christmas! (Or other Holiday) --OS24 06:44, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Re:1849
The Discontinuity Guide says it is set on October 2nd 1849. --MrThermomanPreacher talk to me 20:30, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Vandal
User:2.102.43.146 appears to be a vandal, as he added the following to Peri Brown:


 * "She has smashing tits." Just thought I should mention it... --OS24 04:59, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

a question
Hi! now, when I was looking on the recent changes and what doe's the -number thing mean? Like this: 21:24 Shaun (The Lodger)‎‎ (3 changes | hist). . (+131) . . [Tirenifs‎ (3×)] Metardis talk to me 21:55, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

Outnumbered
Shouldn't Category:Actors who appeared in the Outnumbered franchise be Category: Actors who appeared in Outnumbered? It's not a franchise, as it consists of the original TV show and nothing else. No spin-offs, no video games, no merchandise, no other media except for DVD releases. User:Mini-mitch suggested that your bot could do the name change. Digifiend 01:48, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

REF books.
I have read over Forum:The Unspecified Cyberman Debate, and noticed your argument about how REF books shouldn't be counted as canon, because they are written from an out of Universe perspective. 100% agree with you, but I have but one REF book that I think is an exception to this rule.

I'm sure you know of it, it's a little infamous book called Doctor Who: Cybermen. This was my first Doctor Who book, interestingly enough, and I am know it VERY well. You see, the thing about the book is, it's cut into three sections. Section one is called CONCEPT: Cyberman as idea. The second is  called Archive: a history of the cyber race and the third is called Program: the Cybermen on TV.

Now the first section goes into how the idea for The Tenth Planet and the original Cybermen came about. It looks at the growing popularity of robotics in England that lead to such an idea. The third section goes into the writing, casting, and filming of the episodes that went on air, along with looking at comics, possible future Cybermen (that would inspire Real Time (webcast)), and also looking at an unproduced Fifth Doctor story entitled Genesis of the Cybermen.

Now I know what your thinking, dosent sound very "in-Universe," right? Well, it's the middle section that goes as the afore mentioned "exception."

The second section, entitled Archive: a history of the Cyber race. It is, in fact, written in an "in-Universe" fashion. It presents itself as a human (likely in the future) investigating files from "the great Arc Hives" involving Cybermen. It goes through the existing episodes in chronological order, starting at The Invasion and ending at The Five Doctors, AKA document (0). It never references episode names, rather giving nick names to each case, such as "First Invasion of Earth (Document1)", as apposed to leading it "The Invasion." It never references actors, casting, shooting, or designing, but instead goes through the entire book as if the Cybermen were real, the hole time staying in the character of this human going through "CyberDocuments." It makes a final note at the end (in the 1989 edition that I have) that a new CyberDocument has been discoverd and is being analysed, and that it suggests a shocking further reach of the Cybermen's grasp on the galaxy, obviously referencing the yet-to-air story Silver Nemesis in an in-Universe fashion.

So to conclude, this book is written from pages 31 to 84 in an in-Universe fashion, and thus should be counted as canon. All other pages should go as most REF rules do, but the middle section, in my opinion, should be counted as just another novel, as it is written in an in-Universe fashion. Sorry to write the novel on your talk page, I hope to hear from you soon! OS25 (talk to me.) 08:17, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Infobox mentions
Hi :)

Just wondering, in an Infobox Character, the "mentions" section doesn't seem to show. Do you think you could fix this. Thanks Layton4 talk to me 11:25, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Actions / Discussions
Have I missed a forum post somewhere that means we can just jump the discussion portion of things here?

I mean we waited a week even after a user was blocked for the Dalek image discussion, and yet less than hour between talk post and import on the DW writers page.

I understand you were the creator of the page, but, as we're importing the page don't we have to tag the page with the Wikipedia template, something we actively discourage? --Tangerineduel / talk 16:28, December 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Righty, I just wanted to raise it, in part because I was surprised at your speed of discussion to action! And also so we've had this discussion should it be raised in the future. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:51, December 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if issue of content porting is one we're likely to come across too often. As you've spent more time on Wikipedia's Doctor Who stuff do you think this is something that should be brought to the community, if not we'll leave it as is for the moment. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:59, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Vandal 2
Sorry to bother once more lik this, but User:90.202.190.145 has made some questionable edits, like how on TARDIS he changed The TARDIS acronym to a very questionable set of inappropriate words strewn together. When I reversed his edit, he continued to blank all but the first two paragraphs and a new line that said:
 * ''[Specifics have been hidden and are only viewable when editing this section. Be aware that the hidden bits contain gratuitous and immature swearing.]

what the-?!
Hi, I'm just wondering, how did you do your signature without loads of code?! I mean, this is the code for it: <span style="!  !Me  tard  iS!  20:58, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Oh. On second thoughts....... !Me tard  iS!  21:00, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

I have read it, (no. I read the stuff I didn't know) and there's one thing I don't get. Do you create User:YourName/autosig and do the whole the it say's or what? !Me tard  iS!  21:25, December 29, 2011 (UTC) Ok, thanks. I understand the templates, but czech out the signature! !Me tar  di  S!  09:04, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Inferno
I seem to have inadvertantly recreated "Inferno" in the form of its intro just as you were moving it. Sorry about that. Boblipton talk to me 01:15, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

what is the coding
Hi, could you tell me what the coding is for the bacround color is? !Ṃě ṭáṛ  đì  Ṣ!   ΣḍΊţŜ ṣìṇςə 2011! 11:20, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Master Template
On Template:Master stories, Trail of the White Worm and The Oseidon Adventure are listed as The Master (Dust Breeding) stories, despite them being The Master (UNIT years) ones. Can you remedy this? OS25 (talk to me.) 14:56, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

?
for the past for half hour, I've been browsing on the Fora. So far, the it's been horrible and disapointing. Could you just tell me the code for the bacround and where to put it, or is it to dificult to explain? !Ṃě ṭáṛ  đì  Ṣ!   ΣḍΊţŜ ṣìṇςƏ ĴùṇƏ 2011 19:02, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

More subject removal
Utopia and Utopia (planet) should be Utopia (Utopia) as there's already a Utopia (The Tomorrow Windows). Also, could you move the disambiguation page Utopia (disambiguation) to Utopia's spot? - Tybort (talk page) 20:31, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I think this is probably suited for the bot, not sure, but people in the category Category:Actors who appeared in the Vicar of Dibley should really be in Category:Actors who appeared in The Vicar of Dibley. (Possibly "the Lord of the Rings" --> "The Lord of the Rings" and "the Chronicles of Narnia" to "The Chronicles of Narnia", too, though I'm less certain to whether or not they're fine as they are) -- Tybort (talk page) 00:56, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, Sherlock Holmes, hmm. Tricky. "Who appeared in Sherlock Holmes adaptations", perhaps? Short answer: no idea. Though I do have a question; would the Basil Rathbone movies and Jeremy Brett ITV series count as their "franchises" or not? -- Tybort (talk page) 02:58, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

my apologies for leaving what should be a private message here
Please accept my apologies for leaving what probably should be a private message here. I think it inappropriate for you to ask Tybort something like "Why do you object to this when boblipton isn't opposed?" I can't tell if I am being presented as some sort of crazy bad example, some higher authority or a bizarre hybrid of the two, but in any case, please stop. I despise appeals to authority -- whether to elevate or to prevent the huts from sinking into the swamp. Tybort is not a troll, he is one of the people who like to fill out the details in which I have no competence, and if he thought deleting those pages was a good idea, then he had good reasons. Perhaps they were not sufficient reasons for you. but I resent being used as a bludgeon to whack them out of him. I turned down your offer to make me staff -- and aren't you glad now?! -- because I did not wish this arbitrary sort of authority. In the future, if you wish to bludgeon someone trying to be helpful out of actually thinking, please do it in your own name, not mine. In the meantime, since this is being posted on your talk page because of a lack of a useful way of sending you a private message, please feel free to delete it. I know it's contrary to wiki policy, but I don't care. Boblipton talk to me 02:26, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Caution: plagiarism

 * I understand your actions, czechout, and accept your warning and advice. I apologise for what I did; I guess I must have gotten a little carried away in my editing. :-( Rest assured, it won't happen again. Freddie R. Aldous talk to me 16:51, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Main page?
Hi, Czechout. Isn't time you locked the Main page? ''' !Ṃě ṭáṛ đί Ṣ!   ΣḍΊţŜ ṣìṇςƏ  ĴùṇƏ  2011 ! ''' 20:02, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Simon Fisher-Becker
This is where I got the Image from: http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Simon_Fisher-Becker. In my previous Upload of the image, I mentioned in the description that I didn't know what licensing it should be under, so I asked for what it should've been, and in the meantime, I set a random Licencing so the Image could be Uploaded, and then edited later to show the correct Licensing. So what Licensing should it be under? -Angel Bill.

5:02pm, 22/04/2011
The Deleted page wasn't actually meant to be about the time. it was meant to be about the parallel universe in which it was always that time. I gave it that title because i had no other idead of what it should actually be called.

K9's Award For Being So Affirmative badge
I just made an edit on The Nightmare Man, and then got the K9's Award For Being So Affirmative badge. I find this odd, as the badge is given to someone who makes 1 edit on a K9 TV Episode page, but the Nightmare man isn't a K9 episode. It's a Sarah jane Adventures episode. Is this some kind of mistake? And if it's not, can you explain it to me, cuz I just don't get it.

Sock Puppet
Can Wikia run a test against to different accounts to test for Sock Puppetry? I have a feeling that an old, blocked User is back via a new account - with the exact same edit pattern. MM/ Want to talk? 00:21, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

More moves.
Angela Price should be Angela Price (Rise of the Cybermen), and Francine should be Francine (The Maltese Penguin). -- Tybort (talk page) 04:10, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

sorry
This section has been remarked out because the code used within was causing merry havoc with the rest of the page. User:Metardis: Edit this section to see the flaws in your signature.

Wrong name
Good idea, but, looking at it on the Project Lazarus (audio story) page it's a little large, and on the Project Lazarus it seems overly large, especially if we ever wanted to add an image. Can I suggest just having a box that hides most of the info within a show/hide function and just have a short title showing? --Tangerineduel / talk 15:40, January 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I only just noticed it!
 * Doesn't really bug me. I just thought I'd mention it while you (seemed) to be messing around with it. Add it to the "not remotely urgent, don't worry" about it list. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:00, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

The Master pages
Hey, User:Sinefirt has made some SERIOUS moderations to the pages on The Master... Mainly the pages previously known as The Master (Bruce) and The Master (The Fallen).. I don't know if we should approve or not of these edits, but either way, it will take a lot of cleaning up, mainly with Template:Masters.... I just wanted to know what you wanted to do before I started cleaning up. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:59, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * On a related note, he changed Alternative Fourth Doctor to Fourth Doctor (The Seven Keys to Doomsday). While a probable improvement, given that the original stage play is called Doctor Who and the Daleks in The Seven Keys to Doomsday, should the part in brackets be that, or not? -- Tybort (talk page) 02:59, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sinefirt also made many more similar page moves. Could you please take a look at them?  Tardis1963   talk  07:09, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sinefirt's review
I just wanted to check before I started undoing more pages (undid all the 1-10 Doctors had Cat:Incarnations of the Doctor added), then I noticed your block/warning/review. Are you still reviewing the user's edits or can we move the edits back first as they're all missing even edit summaries. Thanks. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:07, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Fonts
Hi again. I've done quite a bit with the messages since I last sent you a message, but I'm now wondering about the fonts and capitals and stuff. I noticed MediaWiki:Edit is normal text, but your font and color etc. is different on pages. Do you know where I can change things like this. I'll b back soon. User:RandomnoTalk 19:06, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Czechout. Have you noticed the coloring in your talk page? It could be a bug on my computer, or my sig. Anyway this may be as though I am stating the obvius :)  !Ṃ'ě 'ṭ'á'ṛ  đ'ί  'Ṣ'!    at    

commas
About eighty percent of the problem of discussing English grammar is that the language used is actuall meant to discuss Latin or Greek. It must be forty years since I've heard the term apositive referring to anything but blood typing. While I appreciate your issues -- and you will notice that in my comments to Mitch, I told him I would give him time to think about this until the normal course of random edits made me hit this particular example again. I appreciate the occasional useful tip I get and thought he might appreciate this one.

I can see why you encourage people to use commas when they are in doubt, but I am not in doubt. Certainly, I spend a lot of time correcing errors that are too subtle for many of the contributors to grok:not just the difference between subordinate clauses and defining clauses which may or may not require a comma, but the difference between a comma and a period. Subtlety is a relative matter, of course, but this is not a subtle matter to me, any more than all those edits in which I cut the pointless linking clauses. Probably I will get around to the issue in the course of one of my rants, but this is well down the list of gross errors. Or maybe I'll just link to youtube and Victor Borge's skit on phonetic punctuation.

In the meantime, perhaps you can help me with a subtle error that I cn't seem to overcome: I have been trying to put IMDB links into actors and crew using the   template. I keep getting the 404 message. Perhaps you can clarify what, if any steps, I am missing. Boblipton talk to me 21:31, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Here is the sreenshot. I couldn't directley past it into your talk page. I had to modifiy it on Paint. The green block is the text, I will modify my sig. Thanks for pointing it out,  !Ṃ'ě 'ṭ'á'ṛ  đ'ί  'Ṣ'!    at    

better?
hope this is better  !Ṃě  ṭáṛ đί  'Ṣ'!  08:39, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

IMDB
That works. Thank you. Boblipton talk to me 18:23, January 10, 2012 (UTC)

A Quick Fix
Hey, I hope it's okay, but I started a forum discussion on A Fix with Sontarans, called Forum:Is A Fix With Sontarons Canon?. May I invite you to join? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 02:32, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Wackiness
And here I was thinking (well more hoping) that it was one of those hiccups that Wikia goes through periodically. Sigh. Big fixes are fine, they're good, but it's when they add extra stuff that isn't needed. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:44, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

More page moving.
The pages linking to Bane should point to Bane (Invasion of the Bane), as there's another Bane race. I'm guessing that means Bane (disambiguation) should be Bane. -- Tybort (talk page) 17:22, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

preloads.
Hi Czech. Could you do another skeleton for the preloads, I would like it to be called 'orginisations' thanks,

Reference works banner?
Do we need a banner for reference works that says "This work contains in-universe, non-narrative information. Information from this work is included in the Behind the scenes sections."

Thought I'd raise the question with you first before going through another Forum:Brilliant Book 2011: a valid source? session.

I know I'm often taking issue about having lots of banners at the top of pages, but looking through the Category:Reference books and trying to make some sense of it, there's a lot that have in-universe info, and ones that mix real world and in-universe together. Thanks. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:36, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Graeme Harper
Hi. Graeme Harper was probably made in visual mode, hence the horible confusion when you switch onto source. I have no idea how to fix this sort of thing, so I contacted you. Thanks,

Reply
Oh yeah. Just a minute ago it was horibble! Nevermind.

Real world template
There are other pages that don't include the real world template, such as Albert Einstein.

Page moving
Per T:HONOUR, Father Gregory needs moving to Gregory, as I've checked, it's the only in-universe term called Gregory, even accounting for surnames. Is that the proper way of disambiguating? -- Tybort (talk page) 18:48, January 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Damn, not sure how I missed that. I thought I might have skimmed a little, but only towards the end. Alright, Gregory (Tsar Wars) it is. -- Tybort (talk page) 19:43, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Whoops!!!
Sorry. Must have forgot that time.

TitleSort
A question about TitleSort, at the risk of digging myself into a further hole: does this apply specifically for Oou titles, or can it be used for in-universe As, Ans and Thes too?. -- Tybort (talk page) 20:09, January 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Although in the case of the Master and others disambiguated by "The" titles, that's a very complex case, due to ... for that, back on December 16, I just stuck to DEFAULTSORT for all the Master pages, due to The Fallen and The Curse of Fatal Death otherwise being organised by the letter T.


 * Which reminds me, when names are sorted inside the Category box, i.e. is there a rule for or against that? -- Tybort (talk page) 20:56, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Follow checked when deleting
Is this happening for you? When I go to delete a page/category or whatever the follow box is ticked, despite me not following it. I've gone through my preferences and there's nothing I've accidentally ticked (that I can find). --Tangerineduel / talk 15:20, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Righty, well I think it's just become default recently. But you make a good point. Reasonable it is, it's still annoying a lot of the time. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:30, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Songs in stories

 * I'd suggest that the category title you created would admit any song sung by a character diegetically. Would it upset you greatly if the text were modified to make it match what the category name actually says?

That doesn't quite fit, since I'm thinking of at least two potential scenarios. Doctor Who and the Pirates and The Ultimate Adventure have musical versions of what would otherwise be normal dialog. The Wormery has Iris' singing on stage as a direct plot point, as does The Ratings War with the "Beep and Friends" song. Horror of Glam Rock's song "Children of Tomorrow" is an instance I may yank if the song is not used as a plot point.

An extra quandary: the Doctor sings in the shower in Spearhead from Space and The Lodger, and sings opera while driving in Inferno. I'm not sure if these should be included or not -- this gets into the slippery slope that MiniMitch was mentioning. -- Gousha talk to me 09:01, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * I first thought of the category between listening to The Wormery, and listening to a BFA podcast about the songwriting for Horror of Glam Rock. "Gee, there are a lot of songs in BFA works. There should be a category." It seemed simple enough at the time, but more thought (and more instances) are massively complicating what seemed a simple idea. Colin Baker singing Gilbert&Sullivan is one thing. Jon Pertwee humming a tune is something I hadn't considered, and it really stretches things out.


 * By original concept I was considering any case where a main character was singing a tune with lyrics. At this point I've lost any coherent boundary for the category. Time to throw it to the forum crowd, I think. -- Gousha talk to me 20:12, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm ready to call it by the above definition, then: any case where a character sings a tune with words. Aggedor's Lullaby fits. Singing in the shower fits. Cultists' chanting does not. The fuzzy part will be humming. -- Gousha talk to me 21:23, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * I've modded the category with some better definition text and a few of the Pertwee stories. More can be added. Let me know if it sounds straightforward, and certainly make adjustments if it's not clear.  And thanks for your help!  -- Gousha talk to me 22:18, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Erased again, this time by Revan. If two admins find the idea fuzzy or pointless enough to kill it, then the concept is fundamentally flawed. I'm giving it up. -- Gousha talk to me 23:58, January 22, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for the advise. I have read through purdue owl. In reply to the archiving topic, I will remember the note and use it to consult others (but please don't think I will copy and paste!) !Ṃě ṭáṛ  đί  'Ṣ'!    at   

Monobook?
Hi CzechOut. Is the Monobook cover for TARDIS OK for use? !Ṃě ṭáṛ  đί  'Ṣ'!    at   

Sorry. I meant the option for the MonoBook skin on my prefrences thanks. !Ṃě ṭáṛ  đί  'Ṣ'!    at   

Thanks. !Ṃě ṭáṛ  đί  'Ṣ'!    at   

Entertainment calendar
Considering Wikia is meant to, like Wikipedia be a global thing it's very US-centric at times.

Just to see I checked out the five largest other language versions of this wiki.

Only two of them, the Russian and Netherlands wikis display the calendar, but they don't actually display any content. The most obvious thing would be that they're going to launch language specific versions. But are just blanketing the English wikis with US data.

The problem I have with these additions is I often can't see the idea behind them. As what they're essentially providing is a TV guide. Is it to try and grab people who will be interested in these shows to create wikis? Drum up sales for pay TV/cable, create a situation where they're pushing people to download these shows in a complicated form of protest via Wikia against SOPA? Okay the last one is a little bit convoluted. --Tangerineduel / talk 12:34, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

The Russian one shows the calendar, but has no content,

page needs deleting
Did you guys create the control freak badge for me? Anyway, I seem to have accidentally created a page while editing another. There are near-duplicates at "Temporal Engine" and "Temporal engine". I would guess one needs ot be deleted.Boblipton talk to me 01:46, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

Sock Puppetry (again)
Can you point me to where about on wiki I can ask them to run a sock puppetry test? I current have strong proof that one of our Users is running multiply accounts. I am happy to upload the image I found, by typing Tardis wikia into Google, to strength this idea. MM/ Want to talk? 02:11, January 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I have sent away the report to wikia with the three accounts I suspect to be under the same control. MM/ Want to talk? 02:42, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

could you tell me....?
Hi. Can you tell me how to make things under the search box. I fancy myself as a bit of a novice code guru. But it is not for this wiki, it is for this one. thanks,

Categories - Novels/Novelisations
Hey, just a quick question while OttselSpy25 is going headstrong with the category adding bonanza, novelisations do we categorise them within the novels categories like Category:Fourth Doctor novels? My feeling is not as the "novel" and "novelisation" are different sorts of prose, one is original fiction and one's a novelisation. But as you like to have the categories functioning correctly, I thought I'd run it past you. --Tangerineduel / talk 13:08, January 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay. I had considered making a new "Fourth Doctor Novelisations" category, but I thought it was a bit broad... Like I think there's an adaptaition of an audio adventure somewhere... Whould you like me to start removing the category? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 14:57, January 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Found some more instances (because I noticed OttselSpy25 adding some more categories), see The Five Doctors (novelisation) which already had Category:Rassilon novels (added by MM on 6 Feb 2011) and Category:Cyberman (Mondas) novels (added by Tybort on 17 Aug) and just recently OttselSpy25 adding Category:K9 novels.
 * As evidenced by this sample and a quick look through the categories it seems it's not just limited to OttselSpy25.
 * I'll leave it in your hands how to deal with this site wide; tech note, MoS update or something else.
 * If this is something you can't easily run the bot through I'll give it a go looking through all the categories to check them for novelisations etc (there can't be that many). Thanks. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:06, January 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * Your explanation of categories/questions to ask oneself on OttselSpy25's talk page looked useful.
 * I've been thinking about a page that explains sub-categories for a while also, as we seem to often get people not understanding the subcategory concept. I just find that unless you can see a simple category structure the subcategory idea might be complicated. I know whenever I explain it I hope that it makes sense. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:21, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

could you tell me?
Hi. Could you tell me the name of the template which alerts you when you have a message 'cause I want to change it for Just William wiki thanks.

Ummm, don't mean to be rude but I am still waiting. Thanks,

Individual
Hey, shouldn't we split Sontar (individual) into Sontar (The Infinity Doctors) and Sontar (The Gods Walk Among Us)? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 22:49, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

Help
I need a bit of help. This user has been stalking me on every Wiki I'm a part of. Can you please block this account and his other one? Many thanks.  Thomasfan  Peep! Peep!   16:15, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

Nyssa
Hey, I known our policy on audio covers, but is it okay to show an image of an older Nyssa from an audio cover, (like Cobwebs) since they are the only ones that exist and show the older Nyssa? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 14:36, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

Chronotis
Hey, I think Salyavin should be called Chronotis via T:CHAR NAMES, but there is already a redirect there so I cannot move it. Could you do so? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:09, January 21, 2012 (UTC)

Templates misbehaving
On Wirrn Isle, there's a lot of code above and below the notice. It's not a huge issue, given it's spoiler locked, but just in case it's an indicator of a larger issue, I thought I'd contact you. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:46, January 22, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh that seems sensible...
 * ...hang on...what?
 * Distracting me with interesting information only works until I read the next paragraph.
 * In this instance I would say yes, you are probably not considering things clearly.
 * I don't think it looks cool, it looks like something's broken (hence my query), but the pages aren't in circulation, they're edit locked, so it shouldn't cause any issues...for the time being the odd coding random stuff can remain. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:51, January 22, 2012 (UTC)

Responce from the Library
Hi! ...and a belated Happy New Year! sorry I've been away a bit - life and stuff! Just realised you've been leaving talk messages that I wasn't aware of, so I'm gonna go have to through them closer again and take your points on board. Really so sorry :( ... its a shame talk pages aren't done in reverse order with new posts at the top. Anyway hope alls well with you The Librarian talk to me 00:57, January 23, 2012 (UTC)

Images
I am sorry about that, I released my mistake after I deleted it (I saw it had came up on a page that I clicked on that was deleted) and I was going to restore it then, but I had no idea if it would affect the template etc in anyway.

I was going to leave you a message explaining the error, however I got distracted by other issues and forgot to inform you. I should have moved it to Tardis:Images called by CSS, but unfortunately I never. I apologies for this. MM/ Want to talk? 11:42, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Czech, User:NileQT87 has been roving categories from pages rapidly. He claims them to be "trollish," despite their relevance. He removed "The Master's enemies," for instance, from Jamie McCrimmon, despite The Dark Path. He also appears to have lied to User:Tangerineduel, stating that he had not touched the categories on Jamie McCrimmon, despite the previously mentioned edits. He also told me to "Stop adding categories" on my Talk page. I think you need to chat with him about some of this stuff.


 * Now that I see what you're talking about... The categories thing was a bizarre behavior of the Wiki editor (completely unrelated to your edits) that, as I was writing half of Jamie's page (indeed, most of that biographical text is mine), the categories thing kept getting deleted for some bizarre reason and I didn't know why or realize it until someone told me. And it was LONG before you ever started doing categories on pages. Months and months ago. It had nothing to do with you. I didn't lie about anything. Now that you've mentioned The Dark Path, that can stay. However, the First, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Seventh and Eighth Doctor ally categories are ones you have yet to tell me how these apply. And I NEVER removed the Sixth Doctor ally category (which you can see if you look at my edit). And it wasn't just Jamie that you added every single Classic Doctor to their list of alliances--I really don't think every companion you edited is an ally of EVERY Doctor! NileQT87 talk to me 18:57, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Catagories
I have re-added categories to most of the pages, but now that I have told you, I shall leave it to you. (Unless you want me to do it.) OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 20:19, January 24, 2012 (UTC)


 * Scratch that, I actually fixed them all... :>( OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 20:26, January 24, 2012 (UTC)

Reformed individuals & Categories
Please, please delete it, please.

I don't think I created it as such. I think I created it after someone mis-named it, wrong case or something. I don't remember creating it.

In general the categories I create are trying to order things in better ways, stuff like Foods and beverages (which doesn't say I created it, mostly because I was doing a batch of pages and was keeping it red linked just to keep things sorted, when another user decided to create it when I was mid-way through things), anyways... or my attempts to sort out the Category:Stories by featured characters, groups or species, thank you by the way for coming up with a collective category for, when I was busy with that I sat for many minutes and had a mental block as to what to call it.

The questions you've asked me, I've pondered on also (and just not got around to doing anything about it.).

While we're on questions of categories could I raise a couple; Category:Crossover characters, not created by you, but the explanation is which is fine, but it's in the individuals category so we're categorising them as individuals in one breath and then 'characters' in another. As we've got Category:Fictional characters as people that exist as definitely fictional beings in the DWU, yet Crossover characters aren't fictional characters.

Category:LGBT individuals, has had a talk page comment of mine on it for ages, it's a category I don't know why we need to have, for that matter I don't really know why we've got the equivalent real world categories, as we don't have a "Straight crew members" category, or indeed a "Straight individuals" category. I know Wikipedia has categories like that, but do we need to follow that lead? Going back to in-universe, by Benny's time it's not even a thing and Jason shagged everything, man, woman and alien, and since we're going from the end of the universe past tense and all, I just can't see why we need that category. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:09, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

QOTW and categories
Fantastic. I did notice yesterday you creating various QOTW themed pages. I was starting to think it was one of those things that we'd just put on the back burner and wouldn't return to. But it's great to see it automated, as I said it was one of the things I disliked doing and more often than not forgot and then just didn't do it at all.

Just to return to a previous subject for a moment. There's still a lot of novelisation in Category:K9 novels.

Also what about the Category:Novels by year of release? Which from 1964-1990 are basically filled with novelisations. Should these all be renamed, or have their content moved to Category:Publications by year or Category:Novelisations by year? --Tangerineduel / talk 15:57, January 27, 2012 (UTC)


 * My first thought is to go with the seemingly easier first option, lumping everything into large prose categories etc.


 * But then I had cause to think and we do like to separate out our categories and split them down to the lowest common link.


 * I think this, in your second option/method B is the better option. As it actually allows information to be present for someone who might not know the difference between a novelisation and a novel. When you'd look at each category you'd be able to see the difference.
 * I think your second option/Method B, would offer us the best flexibility in the future and would allow us more options than lumping everything into larger categories.


 * As ever I'm happy to do any of the laborious work, before there was a bot around I did a great many edits like that.--Tangerineduel / talk 14:14, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Banners
Thanks! I've made an adjustment to the canon policy, so secondary sources links correctly. I really hope this will stop editors from adding info from these sources. --Tangerineduel / talk 17:16, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Giant wasps
There has been a suggestion to merge Vespiform and Giant Wasp, due to The Monster Files' suggestion that they are one in the same, and I have been considering starting a Forum discussion on it... But I hesitate, for it may be too small an issue... What do you think? (I'm sort of torn...) Sorry to bother. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 23:31, January 28, 2012 (UTC)

Problem
The crew templates for some Torchwood series 2 episode pages are showing gibberish. I don't know how to fix it, so could you take a look? Shambala108 talk to me 05:51, January 31, 2012 (UTC)

New Track
Hi. Can you make a new editing track in the Leaderboard? can it be editing pages in the 'stubs' category's?

Ok then. By the way, is my sig allright?

Cat:Doctor Who analysis books
Just in reference to the Forum, should Category:Doctor Who analysis books be renamed Category:Doctor Who criticism books (which reads a little awkwardly to me) or Category:Doctor Who critical analysis books, or Category:Books providing criticism and analysis of Doctor Who which reads better but is more wordy. Or something else that's better or more accurate. --Tangerineduel / talk 02:19, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Czechout. Today I've been seeing redlinks like that one. Is it a bug?

No. I'm saying that until today, redlinks haven't had a question mark at the end of them by, it seems, defult.

myth makers uncredited cast
I see there is a separate page for "The Myth Makers Uncredited Cast". It seems to me to be bad policy to have such a page and I suggest it be deleted and the ators listed here be folded into the main page. Boblipton talk to me 21:51, February 8, 2012 (UTC)

Terry Nation pictures
I see the photo of Terry Nation that I added has been deleted, and the original has been put back in. What criteria did it miss? The page desperately needs a portrait photo of some sort at the top. -- Gousha talk to me 05:20, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. I couldn't for the life of me find a redlink for the file... I missed the leading colon! As for the picture, I'll keep hunting. I've found half a dozen decent pics, but none have any better sourcing than the one I posted. Surely someone has one out there... -- Gousha talk to me 06:41, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Success! The Internet comes through. I have a new picture and permission from Terry's son to post it. I should have it up in the next 12 hours or so. Since there's no specific "used with permission" license (and it's still a publicity photo) I'll use the same Publicity license on it, and fill the details in the description.
 * In Nation's case, the present BBC pic really doesn't concentrate on him, so much as him and his creations, and it duplicates the picture already on the page. I tried cropping the picture down to just show him, but the resolution was pretty poor.
 * My intent on this (and others, like the pic for Ian Brooker) is to actually give decent faces to the people we only read about. Screen shots from the DVDs are something I'm not set up for, so the Internet is my only significant option. -- Gousha talk to me 19:06, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Guilty as charged. I have the tech, just not the knowledge. (I deal with storage, not video.) The I simply haven't taken the time to watch the DVDs, much less try screen caps. -- Gousha talk to me 20:47, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

From: Joel Nation  Subject: Re: searching for Terry Nation portrait photo Date: February 9, 2012 9:12:49 AM PST To: Charles Gousha  Reply-To: admin@terrynation.net

Hi,

Im Terrys son and those photos on the site are scans I made from pictures my mom had. If your page contains just reference type information then your more than welcome to use the black and white one with him sitting at a desk. I think that was originally taken as a publicity photo in the sixties. You could indicate permission as "with permission of the Nation family" or something like that. I feel less comfortable giving explicit permission for the other photos.

I hope this helps. Let me know when its done I'd be interested to check it out.

Regards, Joel Nation

On 2/8/2012 11:04 PM, Charles Gousha wrote: Hello, I'm wondering if you can help me.

I'm working with the Doctor Who Wiki  to update their entry on Terry Nation -- http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Terry_Nation I'm in search of a decent portrait photo (or something similar) that we can post to the page. I see a few such photos on your site.

1) if the photos are yours, I'd like permission to post them to Wikia, with proper licensing credits.

2) if the photos are gathered from elsewhere, do you have source info for them? I'd like to ask those people similarly.

Thanks for your time.

--- Gousha talk to me 06:50, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Unsuitable images
If an image breaks image use policy, is a deletion template the right way sort it out, or is there something more obvious that I overlooked? -- Tybort (talk page) 15:59, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

Comics
Actually, I am now working with the hole comics, with exception to pages already posted... Do you wish for me to take down a lot of the images? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 12:37, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I did. I need to ask, what do you mean by "worth keeping"? Do you mean that it shows a companion like File:Brod and Third.jpg? Or that it looks good like File:Brod.jpg (I know it doesn't have the Doctor, I mean as an example) or that it is interesting, like File:Abe Lincoln.jpg or File:Marie Celest.jpg? Do you mind speech bubble, or do you just not like them half-way in? I also have a LOT of new images to post later, so I also have a question off two about those... But I'll ask those at the time. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 21:16, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, some questions...
 * 1) The FASA role-playing books are now marked as "Non-canonical," so I presume that File:Early_Davros.jpg from The Daleks (roleplaying supplement) is also not okay to be used at Davros... so I have posted it in the "behind the scenes" section.
 * 2) Second, which of these panels would go best on the First Doctor's page? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 03:52, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I understand. I actually think throne posted at the Time & Time Again was from an older site... So, I've found a few images that might go well on the Third Doctor's page, but I'm gonna keep looking, Justin Case. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 19:43, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

More bad disambiging
Daniel Matthews and Daniel Matthews (Auton) should be moved around as Daniel Matthews (actor) and Daniel Matthews, as in-universe terms always take precedence. -- Tybort (talk page) 01:34, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Have a similar problem with Guy Adams and the as-yet unmade Guy Adams (Timeless) -- Tybort (talk page) 02:28, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Do you want some help?
Just thought I'd offer assistance with your "Images of character X". I manually identified and added copyright tags a while back and know it's hard going. So if you'd like a hand, tell me. Though I can also understand you wanting to do something that isn't messing around with the guts of the wiki! --Tangerineduel / talk 15:43, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I have another question about the images. Is there any bot work involved in categorising? Because I don't want to add tags that intrude with automatic placement like with renames and moves. -- Tybort (talk page) 17:31, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, instead of pages, I was just going to go through all of the stuff under Category:Images that isn't an "Images by..." category (i.e. doing Screenshots, Telesnaps, Comic strip images) do it from there, rather than picking any specific era. -- Tybort (talk page) 18:38, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, do the images refer to characters/species in ANY context, or exclusively in-universe? -- Tybort (talk page) 18:42, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. Well, then, for starters, I'll work on the Eleventh Doctor and his companions' (and possibly races) TV screenshots, then move onto Torchwood. -- Tybort (talk page) 19:01, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * Which of the "images by" would a Teselecta fall under? Objects, right? -- Tybort (talk page) 19:28, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm gathering for sanity's sakes, Ganger images should be left to The Rebel Flesh and The Almost People Gangers. Personally, I have no idea how to approach that; I'm just bringing that up.


 * Also, are Silurians and Sea Devils counted separately to one another or as a single group? Because I notice that the story navigation template and story category count them as a single group. -- Tybort (talk page) 19:48, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation
Captain John Hart needs disambiguating from, erm, Captain John Hart with all links moved by the bot. I gather John Hart (Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang) is the suitable dab for this? -- Tybort (talk page) 17:17, February 12, 2012 (UTC)