Talk:The Dream Lord

"According to the Master, the Valeyard is the personification of all that is evil within the Doctor, estimated to have been taken from somewhere between his twelfth and final incarnations." --94.171.77.82 18:47, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * So as it's the eleventh doctor, we can expressely rule out it's the Valeyard then on the basis of that quote. You can't have the latter part of the quote (the "estimation") being totally wrong, while the first part is deemed correct. It's a total logical fallacy if ever I saw one. Not only that but there's no citation for it being the Valeyard whatsoever in the episode Amy's Choice itself. There's no point speculating or assuming things without full proper sourcing or evidence to back it up. One wishy-washy phrase from the Master in one episode not even from the new series since 2005 just isn't good enough. Blightsoot 18:53, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * The operative word is "estimate". One regeneration off isn't bad. And it is properly sourced and evidenced, you just choose to think of the phrase used as "wishy-washy" and ignore it. --94.171.77.82 19:00, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

dreamlord valyard
So far the doctor regenerated 12 times including the 10th doctors failed regeneration. The valyard was created between the 12th and final regeneration. The doctor is between his 12th and final.

The Dream Lord isn't the Valeyard, but is essentially the same forces that would later become the Valeyard. The Valeyard had a physical form, the Dream Lord didn't. So the Dream Lord isn't the Valeyard; but the forces that created him will later manifest as the Valeyard. And there is a difference between "regenerations" and "incarnations". --TemporalSpleen 19:12, May 15, 2010 (UTC)