Forum:Bayldon Copper?

I can't think of any opportunity in DW: Voyage of the Damned where Mr Copper was or would have been called by his first name. Where does "Bayldon" come from? -- Tybort (talk page) 01:24, December 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * At the moment, I can't tell you where it comes from. I can only tell you where it is not:
 * The credits
 * The final shooting script
 * The dialogue track
 * The current iteration of the official website (which I presume to be a frozen-in-amber representation of the way it was in 2007)
 * That leaves the subtitles and the commentaries (or was there just one?) as the last places I can think of that would hold this name in any official way.


 * Though I think that we've already got enough cause to change the page to just Copper (Voyage of the Damned), I'm not in any rush to do so. I want to find out where the Bayldon thing came from before making the changeover.  It's possible there's something that's "official enough" to justify keeping the redirect around.  And, in any case, the name has survived unquestioned for four years.  I think if we do actually uncover this mystery, it'll be worth a notation in the BTS section.   16:16: Sun 08 Jan 2012
 * Yeah, there are two commentaries. The one with Murray Gold and Russell Tovey and Peter Bennett is less likely to have any reference to Bayldon, I should think.    16:49: Sun 08 Jan 2012
 * Okay, I can now add two other things to the "not here" list:
 * DWM 391, the one that was the VOTD issue.
 * Character Options action figure packaging (there isn't one)
 * 20:29: Sun 08 Jan 2012
 * Also not in DWM 390, the issue that apparently broke the news of his casting. Could be wrong about it being the one about breaking the news, but it seems to be.   21:48: Sun 08 Jan 2012
 * Okay. In PCOM: Voyage of the Damned, RTD says that in the original script, Copper had a first name and that he even said it in dialogue.  Julie Gardner pitches in that there was originally a shot of the credit card where at least his first initial was due to appear.  But neither can remember the name and RTD laughs it off saying, "What a great trivia question that will be for Doctor Who fans", or something very similar.  15:38: Mon 09 Jan 2012
 * And as it turned out, that was the little clue I needed. That made me go straight to Doctor Who: The Writer's Tale.  I don't think it appears in the 2010 version.  It could, but I think they had to get rid of the VOTD script extract to make room for the additional material.  In the 2008 edition, though, you get this big extract from the original script in chapter four.  And there, above a picture of Copper on page 95 is the magic line: To repeat, I am Mr Bayldon Copper, ship's historian, and I will be taking you to Old London Town . ..


 * So, it does originate with RTD, and in that sense it's, I guess, "official". But it was actually, intentionally cut from the final script, as the PCOM makes clear.  So do we change over to Copper (Voyage of the Damned), as dab rules would suggest, or do we make an exception and use the "Zaggit Zagoo bar gambit" and keep it on the basis that it did appear in a version of the script?  15:58: Mon 09 Jan 2012


 * If we use the Zaggit Zagoo defence then we would have to put "Conjecture" at the top of the article, to keep things at least a bit internally consistent.
 * But, I'm more inclined to follow the DAB rules with this one, with Zaggit Zagoo there's two different sources naming the bar. Here it's as you say been deliberately cut and couldn't be recalled by either RTD or JG and only mentioned in The Writer's Tale. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:27, January 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * I would change it to Cooper (Voyage of the Damned) mainly because it is not stated anywhere on screen, credits or subtitles that his name is Bayldon. It can go in the BtS section. It may be in the script that is included in the writers tale, but we do not know that he was actually going to go with that. The writer tales says that The Stolen Earth was to include many a number of aliens, such as Margaret Blaine as a child Slitheen. However she did not appear - and we don't put this into her Biography because it never happened. So Bayldon should follow suite - it was never mentioned on screen - only in a early script - so we should not be able to say that Bayldon is his name. MM/ Want to talk? 16:34, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, well, I'm gonna call the naming issue settled. I'll move it as outlined above.   The only remaining question is whether we should retain the redirect from Bayldon Copper.  Generally, I'd be inclined to not allow the redirect after the move, but I wonder in this case if "Bayldon Copper" has gained enough purchase that we should leave it in place.  There are about 1500 Google hits, but a lot of those derive from us.  For the moment, I'll do the move, but leave the redirect in place until we can decide whether we should axe it altogether.  15:04: Fri 13 Jan 2012