Talk:Jack Harkness/Archive 1

Face of Boe
Why does the Face of Boe have to be a redirect here? He maybe Jack according to Last of the Time Lords, but still I think the face still deserves his own article. The evil dudeKorak 14:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the Face of Boe article should be reverted back, it's more or less like the Doctor, the Face of Boe is Jack's "future incarnation" with his own personality and identity (and adventures) separate from Jack Harkness. --Tangerineduel 15:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Pregnancy: surely the mention of being pregnant in some way relates to Boe's pregnancy in The Long Game?


 * It is theoretically possible, though the suggestion is that Jack has been pregnant in his past, but Boe (Jack's future self) has/will be pregnant as his 'Boe self' (rather than Jack himself). --Tangerineduel 13:07, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Please note that these comments are old and the Face of Boe has had its own article for some time now. -- sulfur 12:36, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...
I'm pretty sure it hasn't been explicitly stated that Jack is the same Face of Boe, as the one that the Doctor meets on New Earth, so this should be written into the article as being speculation at best. Russell T Davies has said it is only "theory" anyways, so we shouldn't take it as being fact. &mdash;  beeurd  talk 20:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

jack IS boe
i know there have been other discussions about this but i now have proof that jack IS boe (i think) boe dies in the year 5 billion and 53 (or some time near that) BUT he knows about yana who exists in the year something TRILLION, a bit more than a billion, so how else could boe know about yana unless he is actually jack and also i think its very unlikely the doctorwho writers will throw in a wild gosse chase about a charecter we are probably never going to see again81.108.233.59 18:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but that is still speculation, not proof. Face of Boe could have known about Yana because Yana said that he was found as a child on the coast of the Silver Devastation, which is the area previously identified as where the Face of Boe comes from. &mdash;  beeurd  talk 23:22, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

but boe still died in 5billion and 23 and i think yana wouldnt live from 5billion and 23 to about the year 10trillion without dying of old age (remember he did make himself human) and even if he did how would the face of boe know that he was a timelord81.108.233.59 08:10, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * There is the possibility that the Face of Boe was either A) Guessing in a generalised sense that 'You are not alone' was in fact just that, and it was just a coincidence that it spelled YANA. B) That the Face of Boe was a psychic (which is possible and there have been psychics previous in stores), and was genuinely able to foretell the future. This option is less unlikely than it might seem, the Face of Boe is already telepathic, and as a Face/head he doesn't have much else to master body wise, so mental abilities could be one of the abilities of Boekind.
 * But also, there isn't a direct chain of events that lead between Jack and Boe, there is only supposition that leads to the assumption that Boe and Jack, it's enough to suggest the possibility but not enough to say for certain that they are the same person. A name isn't proof, so for now (until more information comes to light that is). --Tangerineduel 10:34, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The face of Boe is a Telepathic, right? What boundaries are there stopping him from being able to communicate through the bands of time? --Ledwrong 08:38, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Russell T Davies, John Barrowman, Julie Gardner and David Tennant have all said Jack is Boe. I think the info should be put here, but have some sort of banner where it begins that says something like "It is under debate whether the following information is canon". I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit 00:16, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Exlicit Face of Boe stuff
The following statement, rather than showing the possibility that Jack is the Face of Boe, actually assumes it. I put it here to make it easier for someone to reword and fix if they can figure out how..
 * He could also project messages onto the Doctor's psychic paper after he became the Face of Boe. (TV: New Earth)

--trlkly 12:29, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Behind the Scenes, Jack's wierd accent
While it is true he sometimes says stuff "un-american", unlike Nicola Bryant, John Barrowman really is American. He grew up in Illinois. However, he is very proud of his Scottish ancestry and cultivates a kind of Scottish accent. This may have effected his pronunciation of certain words. Also, maybe he never really came across the word 'estrogen' all that very much in his past so when the word came up in the script, he may have simply pronounced it as he heard is British co-stars pronouncing it. 71.193.152.56 02:52, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, John Barrowman is Scottish born, and was raised there in Glasgow until the age of eight. He adopted an American accent upon moving to the states because the other children would make fun of him. So, when he says things in a "British" manner, it is because that is his native accent.174.28.48.67 10:45, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Simularities
Jack shares many Phyiscal simularities and previous occupations with a Character from Knights of the Old Republic 2, (Video game) Atton "Jaq" Rand. But that's only my personal opinion.

Character History Continuity Error?
When Jack first appears in Doctor Who, he is named "Jack Harkness." But later in Torchwood, we find that his real name is James Harper and he picked up the name "Jack Harkness" during WWII. A Captain named "Jack Harkness" went out on a mission, was killed, and James (our Jack) assumed his identity.

But then, how did he come by the name "Jack Harkness" in Doctor Who? Jack, after he was finished with the Doctor and Rose, was left back in early Earth and had to live through its history to get to the present. Thus, he would have assumed the identity of "Jack Harkness" after he met the Doctor and Rose.

Now, it is true that Jack meets the Doctor and Rose during WWII but at that point in his timeline, he's still got his hypertech and isn't trying to blend in on Earth. He's merely using that point in time because he happens to know that on Date X, Time Y, a bomb will fall on location Z. He isn't interacting with any locals and has no need to assume anybody's identity.

So where did James really acquire the name of "Jack"? -- Rrhain


 * I don't see why he doesn't have enough time to pick up the identity before The Empty Child. I mean, his boyfriend would have gotten a bit suspicious if he had arrived suddenly with no identification and no reason to be there.


 * Of course, my memory is still a bit fuzzy about that episode. It's been a while. --


 * I'm pretty sure he was interacting with the locals at the beginning of the episode, around the time that he spotted Rose. 15:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * But why would he have had any need to assume the identity of Jack Harkness? He certainly wasn't going to be sticking around. He was there to con some money out of the suckers in the time machine. He planted a lure at the site of a future bomb drop, was going to get his money, and run. Why would he have gone to the trouble of finding someone who died, altering the records so that it looked like he survived, and taken over his life? -- Rrhain


 * Possibly so that he doesn't get in trouble with the army at the time. I seem to remember that the ship landed in a restricted area (or maybe it became restricted because the ship landed there, I don't remember). Jack would need an excuse for waiting around for other time travellers, or else he'd probably be arrested for trespassing. --


 * But he isn't staying on earth. He's staying in his ship. He wasn't even really on Earth until he noticed a time traveller (the TARDIS) and set up the decoy of the ambulance capsule. After all, they've only got two hours to do the deal before the bomb lands on it. He also uses Pompeii for these cons. -- Rrhain


 * Even if he's staying on his ship (in the episode he only said he parked, not that he was living in it), he'd been there for a month, ever since he "parked" the ambulance. (The Doctor and Rose just happened to land two hours before the bomb was gonna drop.) He'd have to blend in with the locals if he wants to notice the Time Agents, who were probably trained to blend in. He also might have had other reasons we don't know about. ~AlmostSarahJane, 8 July 2009

(outdent) You sure that's his real name? Cuz it isn't in the article, and I've never heard of it (I am in the US, though.) From what I read in the artilce, I thought Captain James was a separate character. -- Commodore Sixty-Four(talk) 05:09, 7 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Captain James Harper was just the name he made up so he wouldn't have to say Captain Jack Harkness. AnimeNoKyouran 01:40, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, we don't know his real name yet. he probably gave it up when becoming a Time Agent and from speech from Kiss Kiss Bang Bang it sounds as if Jack and John are used to assigning cover names, it makes them safer whereas the Doctor just gives his name because he can just Tardis-off. There's alot of stuff we don't know. I think he kept the name Jack Harkness post-Doctor because what the Doctor knew him as and he might have interest in finding Jack.

But then again, Gray, his brother, called him Jack in the TW episode Exit Wounds (right?). Gray couldn't have known this unless Capt John Hart had told him.

His childhood
What we know of his childhood comes from Adam. Do we know that the memories Adam gave Jack were authentic? Jccalhoun 01:10, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


 * not really, but by the season finale, though, I strongly suspect we will know one way or another. --66.31.44.71 02:24, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

certain sections need trimming
specifically the section dealing with Doctor Who Series 2 and Torchwood season 2 needs trimming. far too much extra detail. (I did such an edit just now and then the computer hiccuped, losing the edit.) --24.61.13.0 03:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I trimmed it just now. chiefly a virtual scene-by-scene recaps of "Utopia" and "Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang". could still use a little more whittling down, though. --Stardizzy2 20:19, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Timeline crossing
In theory, shouldn't Jack, Tosh, Owen and possibly Suzie be in the Torchwood Hub directly underneath the TARDIS during the events of Boom Town? Should this be mentioned as an error? 90.192.94.251 20:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The PROSE The Twilight Streets states that the Totchwood team (including Suzie) had been ordered to stay in the hub during the events. So no, it's not an error. --OZOO 21:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Eerie, I was just going to reply to this myself. Indeed, it's not an error. Jack didn't meet himself, so no damage was done. -- 67.241.172.238 23:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

---Jack has been very careful in not crossing his own time line, he knows where he will be and thus plans where not to be when events come a calling. In The Empty Child there are technically 3 Jacks. 1 is frozen until he faces Grey TV:Exit Wounds, one is working for Torchwood, and the final is hanging out with the Doctor and Rose. The only time Jack almost crossed his timeline was not his fault, his friend John Hartt gave him the ring to travel (?) and he wound up in Torchwood 1901 (?) TV:Exit Wounds. so he was not able to plan on that one, and had the possibility to cross but was wise enough to tell them to freeze him.--68.90.225.31 01:31, 1 April 2009 (UTC)IkeRay

"Writer Russell T Davies, in the episode's commentary, called the implication of this scene "a theory" as to the Face of Boe's origins, prompting Executive Producer Julie Gardner to urge him to "stop back-pedalling" about the two characters being the same. Davies also said that after writing the scene he inserted a line in the ADR recording for "Gridlock" in which the Face of Boe calls the Doctor "old friend".[1]

Gardner also stated outright at the 2008 San Diego Comic Con that the Face of Boe was Jack Harkness. Similarly, Torchwood Declassified for Torchwood Series 2 has John Barrowman, David Tennant, and Russell T Davies explicitly stating that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness."

Jack Harkness' real name is not and was never James Harper except during WWII (he named himself that). It may actually have been "Sun" which you can hear in the flashback scenes of his childhood in the Boeshane Peninsula. The theory of his name fits considering that Professor "River" Song is from the same time period as Jack.--99.251.178.116 01:53, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That was his father calling him "son". 99.249.213.65 06:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Major revision
I believe that this article needs some drastic revision, for general structure, writing quality, and compliance with the style manual as well as basic factual accuracy, segregation of fact and supposition, and removal of redundant and irrelevant information and unnecessary detail. RL permitting, I hope to work on this in the next month, but I'm sure you know how cranky RL gets when you pay more attention to to the interwebs, so I make no promises. I would appreciate it if anyone who feels particularly invested in this article would drop me a line, so we can collaborate. --Bedawyn
 * Jack Harkness should be called Captain Jack Harkness and the episode should be called Captain Jack Harkness (TW story)
 * JACKS REAL NAME IS UNKNOWN it is NOT James Harper! That is another alais. He may or may not be the face of Boe so Boe deserves a separate page. I also agree with all the statement made in the major revison comment--Gallifreyispowerful 12:02, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * From what I read, it never states that his real name is "James Harper", simply that it was another name that he used. There's a separate article on the Face of Boe, both suggesting a possible connection. Oh, and the article should not have his "rank" at the start of it.
 * In short, I'm not entirely sure what most of your comment is getting at. -- sulfur 12:36, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, the name 'Face of Boe' is probably derived from Jack's home-town, on the Boeshane Peninsula.

Images
I've uploaded two of the BBC's supplementary pics of Jack from WWII: Image:Slowpathjackwithplane.jpg and Image:Jackmilitaryportrait.jpg. I'd love to add one of them here, but both would be overkill, so which one? I personally think the portrait looks better, but the plane pic might be better overall, since it carries more contextual information, and I think it does a better job of getting across the message that Jack's RAF image isn't just a holdover from his con-man days. Anyone else have a preference?

Ideally, I'd also love to get a different "Adam" pic, one that shows boy!Jack's face, and a good in-context pic from the Lahore flashback. But alas, I can't do screencaps. --Bedawyn 04:34, December 26, 2009 (UTC)