Howling:Bigger on the Inside

Did I mishear, or was the PhiCorp warehouse bigger on the inside than on the outside? I know that it isn't likely that there will be many Doctor Who references, but if it is dimensionally transendential, that would suggest Time Lord technology, and it was Time Lord technology that made Jack immortal in the first place.Icecreamdif 04:48, July 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yep, at 15:04, Jack says, "Bigger on the inside than the outside."


 * But that doesn't mean it has to be Time Lord technology; other races have developed dimensionally transcendental technology, not necessarily with time travel (and humans, Cybermen, and possibly Daleks seem to do it the other way around). Besides, Time Lord technology only indirectly made Jack immortal; it was a human doing something no Time Lord would ever even think of attempting, and then using her resulting godlike powers without thinking it through, that made Jack immortal…--173.228.85.118 08:15, July 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * PS, speaking of alien technology, what ever happened to the Immortality Gate after The End of Time? The Doctor absorbs all the radiation, the system shuts down, he and Wilf walk out. Later, Wilf tells him that they arrested Naismith and his daughter for "crimes undisclosed", and that's the last we hear. If Naismith acquired it after the fall of Torchwood, others must have known about it, right? --173.228.85.118 08:55, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

The Gate might be capable of doing this, but didn't the Vinvocci woman say that it heals people. It was able to heal the burns on one of Naismith's employees, but the Miracle doesn't heal people, it just keeps them alive. The ability to make something bigger on the outside is usually described as Timelord technology, like in Doomsday, even though other species have been shown to have that technology, like in The Chase. Obviously the mere presence of a TARDIS isn't enough to cause the miracle, but if PhiCorp found it, they could have used it for that purpose.Icecreamdif 15:32, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that Jack meant that the building was dimensionally transendental. The way he said it without any real emphasis or acknowledgement from Rex made me think it was a throwaway line. That it was Jack’s way of stating that the building goes on and on and is filled with the stockpiled drugs. Jack has been semi-explaining all of the alien and future terminology to Rex as he goes and does not explain why the building is bigger on the inside. Also Rex seems surprised at the room, but more about what is in it, not the size or whether or not it is bigger on the inside.MasterIII 23:02, July 23, 2011 (UTC)

:MasterIII, you're right that it could easily just be a throwaway reference for the fans (and, in-universe, a private joke for himself) rather than a plot point.

:Meanwhile, Icecreamdif, you're right that the Daleks refer to transcendental engineering as "Time Lord technology", but that just means that the Daleks stole it from the Time Lords. And actually, the case you're talking about, in Doomsday, they're actually talking about a Time Lord artifact, the Genesis Ark, not their own technology. Anyway, the point is, the fact that there are races that appear to have transcendental engineering without time travel (Trions, Logopolitans, a few others from the novels) and vice-versa (future humans, everyone Faction Paradox sold tech to, etc.) means that just because someone has transcendental engineering doesn't necessarily mean they have any other Time Lord technology.

:Anyway, so far we don't have any evidence that PhiCorp is anything but a present-day earth corporation. So presumably they got any advanced technology by scavenging from aliens—just like van Statten, Naismith, and Torchwood itself—which means that even if they do have a dimensionally transcendental building, it doesn't imply any other technologies. --173.228.85.118 00:25, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

When I saw the episode, I also thought that Jack might have been speaking metaphorically, but the way he said it sounded like he meant it literally. In Doomsday, when the Daleks said that the Genesis Ark was Timelord technology, and then when the Daleks opened it, the Doctor said something like "Timelord technology, bigger on the inside," which would suggest that it is a technology generally associated with Timelords. I agree that PhiCorp is a present-day Earth corpoation, but if any Timelord technology is still left after the Time War, it is possible that PhiCorp could have scavenged it and used it to make humanity immortal to sell more drugs. Icecreamdif 02:28, July 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, the Daleks, and the Time Lords, think of it as Time Lord technology; they also both think of time travel as Time Lord technology, but that doesn't mean Dr. Waterfield or whoever made the quantum transducer had any Time Lord tech. On the other hand, it does seem plausible that Time Lord technology is more likely to be scavenged on 2011 Earth than, say, Trion technology. (And really, if they discovered the trick from Vislor Turlough's sock drawer at Brendon Academy, that would be pretty disappointing…) But so far, the only time we've seen such a thing was when in Turn Left, and it was the Doctor's TARDIS that was "scavenged".


 * Also, even when the two shows were more closely linked, alien tech on Torchwood usually didn't come from any familiar Whovian race, much less the Time Lords; it came from Dogons, Butterfly People, or just "unknown sources". I think if there is alien tech, or alien involvement, it'll either be someone from Torchwood's past (an offshoot of The Pharm experimenting on Owen's remains with the resurrection gauntlets is too obvious, right?) or someone completely new. --173.228.85.118 03:27, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I know its not likely that they will include any major references to Doctor Who. Maybe Jack will explain how he became immortal, but I wouldn't expect much more than that. Still, given the in-universe facts from the episode, it isn't impossible that the Master left his TARDIS on Earth after Survival or something like that.Icecreamdif 03:33, July 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Wasn't the Master stranded without his TARDIS, which is why he needed the kitlings' teleportation abilities? (I might be wrong; I haven't watched Survival in a while, or read First Frontier, for that matter, both of which I need to rectify…) --173.228.85.118 09:55, July 24, 2011 (UTC)

I haven't seen Survival in a while either, but I thought his TARDIS was on Earth, and he was stranded on the Cheetah Planet. I could be wrong though, since I've only seen that episode once, and that was a while ago. The Master's TARDIS was just a random example I came up with though. It could just as easily be any renegade Timelord'sIcecreamdif 20:52, July 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think I've got the DVD at home, and I can rewatch it or grep the subtitles next week, but you're right, it doesn't matter; there are countless other concrete possibilities, or just the generic "some Time Lord we didn't know about". And the reason it probably won't turn out to be Time Lord tech is that RTD doesn't want it to be, not that he couldn't think of a good way for humans to get it…--173.228.85.118 23:02, July 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * i doubt that it was bigger on the inside in a timelord way, more of a charley and the chocolate factory way, with most of it being hidden underground so that it appears smaller from the outside than it really is. also, i also think the bigger on the inside line was more of an in-joke than anything else.Imamadmad 10:41, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that Jack would have described it as bigger on the inside if he was just in the basement, and the way he said it didn't sound like he was being metaphorical or joking. I doubt that it actually is a Timelord thing, but it does seem that the warehouse is dimensionally transcendental.Icecreamdif 15:49, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Not that it has any direct connections with TW or DW but in Warehouse 13 their warehouse is clearly larger on the inside than it appears on the outside but that's simply because it's almost entirely underground except for the entrance.

I'm pretty sure Jack saying that was just a DW reference and an inside joke for people who started watching before Miracle Day. V00D00M0NKY 17:12, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

The daleks had transdimensional technology as far back as the chase Winehousefan, July, 25th, 2011, (UTC)

The way Jack said that it was bigger on the inside sounded like he really meant it, and since he has been in the TARDIS before, I doubt that he would use that phrase lightly. I know that the Daleks had basically their own TARDISes in The Chase, but they seem to have pretty much forgotten about that afterwards. In Doomsday, they even describe the ability to make objects bigger on the inside as Timelord technology. Maybe they lost the ability after Genesis of the Daleks. Either way, it probably isn't a Timelord or a Dalek thing for the real world reason that they want non-Doctor Who fans to be able to follow the show.Icecreamdif 19:17, July 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think Jack would be the first one to use that phrase lightly. He jokes about everything. I wouldn't be surprised to hear him use that phrase with a gay reference somehow. V00D00M0NKY 00:22, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but noone else would get the joke. They would just think he was being metaphorical, and they had just stumbled upon a very serious revelation.Icecreamdif 03:04, July 26, 2011 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed, the Soul-less masks look kind of like cybermen faces. Maybe just coincidence, or is it a clue to something bigger ? 187.112.3.113 04:06, July 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * You know, I thought they looked familiar. Maybe that's why. But as far as it being a clue, idk. So far everybody is saying that there probably won't be any direct Doctor Who references within the story line but I'm sure there will be jokes and subtle references (just like the "bigger on the inside" reference) for the real DW fans watching the show. V00D00M0NKY 07:28, July 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * If the Soul-less masks do refer to the cybermen, the reference seems especially to Yvonne Hartman, head of Torchwood 1 in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday. The teardrop on the mask recalls her tears of oil as she held the stairway against the other cybermen. --89.241.64.70 04:10, July 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Considering the Daleks designed Trin-E and Zu-Zana around themselves, the Cybermen would probably do something similar. They believe themselves to be superior, so why not? Plus, the Cybermen remove emotion and race, religion, opinion, diversity, etc, which would indeed make them Souless. Considering the Souless march in armies emotionless, this would only further back-up that probability. For whatever reason, the Cybermen seem to be possiblly behind The Miracle. I wouldn't be surprised.
 * Gallifrey102 21:41, August 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Gallifrey102 21:41, August 4, 2011 (UTC)