User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-6032121-20190914173756

User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-6032121-20190914173756 Any attempt to compile the history of the Daleks is going to be a little screwy, but after thinking about it long and hard, I still think we, the Tardis Data Core, are being significantly more confusing than we need to be when it comes to the identity of the first Dalek and Emperor, and, indeed, that we are being inaccurate to what the valid source material tells us.

The Golden Emperor and the Dalek Emperor (The Evil of the Daleks) are currently treated as two separate characters and given two separate pages. So is the Dalek Prime. Or, rather, the Dalek Prime page is simultaneously treating the Dalek Prime as an individual and as a rank, as if Dalek Emperor and Dalek Emperor (The Evil of the Daleks) were a single page, which is weird enough.

This is, in my opinion, going about this all wrong. Let me explain.

Part I: Why the Dalek Prime appeared in "Evil of the Daleks"
Let us first consider the Dalek Prime. All of its appearances but one are under the pen of John Peel, in his novelisations of televised Dalek stories and in his infamous Eighth Doctor vs. Daleks novel, War of the Daleks.

Why Peel's Dalek Prime is one guy, and why that guy is the Emperor
This is the easiest one: Peel's own Evil of the Daleks novelisation says in so many words that the Dalek Emperor in Evil of the Daleks is the first Dalek ever created, the Dalek Prime, who improved itself and declared itself the leader of its race. This tells us, incidentally, that in Peel's mind, "Dalek Prime" is to be taken as literally "the first Dalek", a very personal designation; not a rank in the same mould as "Dalek Supreme". He is the Dalek Prime, and it would be an oxymoron for there be a second one.

"Over the centuries, the Emperor Dalek had enhanced its own capabilities. It had begun its own existence as merely the first of the Daleks that the mad Kaled scientist Davros had created. It had been its weapon that had cut down their creator. It had been the Dalek Prime, the first among many. But that had never been sufficient."

- John Peel in the "Evil" novelisation

It would, furthermore, be completely uncalled-for to argue that the Dalek Prime in War of the Daleks is not the same Dalek Prime as in the other Peel books. Here is the Dalek Prime in War, going over the exact same data presented in the Evil of the Daleks novelisation:

"The first Daleks understood your futile madness when they elected to destroy you. I am the last survivor of those first Daleks, which is why I am the Dalek Prime. This is why I speak for the Daleks, and hold authority. I am the ancestor of the billions of Daleks alive today. I have guided the race throughout our history, and brought us to the position of strength we hold today. This entire galaxy is poised to collapse before us. This is my achievement and my claim to rule."

- The Dalek Prime in "War"

Consequently, it would be sheer bad faith to be wishy-washy about whether the Dalek Prime that Peel writes about in the novelisations The Chase, Mission to the Unknown and The Mutation of Time is the same Dalek Prime. In Peel's mind, the Dalek Prime is a character, not a title, and to make room for that possibility would be exactly as pointless as having scruples on whether, when a Doctor Who writer alludes to one of the Doctor's enemies who is a Time Lord known as the Master, they might not be referring to a different Reneagde Time Lord also calling themselves the Master.

One might still question why the Dalek Prime in PROSE: War of the Daleks doesn't call himself the Dalek Emperor like he did in Evil, if he's really the same individual. But there is an easy answer for that: unlike all previous appearances of the Dalek Prime, War takes place post-TV: Remembrance of the Daleks. And in that story, we learned that Davros had declared himself the Emperor of his own faction of Daleks, such that in the Dalek civil war that ensued, members of the Davros's faction were the Imperials (while the other, pure-Dalek side was known as the Renegades). In light of this, obviously the Dalek Prime reverted to calling itself that rather than confuse everything by having the faction led by the Dalek Emperor not be the ones calling themselves the Imperial Daleks. Duh.

Why Big Finish is neither here nor there
The current Dalek Prime page seemingly only mentions AUDIO: The Thousand Worlds to declare it irrelevant: that story mentions a Prime Dalek being active in the Time War, but only the precedents of "Dalek Supreme"/"Supreme Dalek" and "Dalek Emperor"/"Emperor Dalek" even raise the possibility that "Dalek Prime" and "Prime Dalek" might be the same thing; it is little more than fannish speculation. More to the point, the War Doctor claims never to have heard the designation, even though, as we saw, the Dalek Prime as understood in the novels very memorably faced off against the Eighth Doctor.

So what about AUDIO: The Four Doctors, then? Well, once again, I don't think Peter Anghelides was thinking of the same Dalek Prime as John Peel, at all. As we saw, the whole point of the name "Dalek Prime" in Peel's works is that it refers to the original Dalek; that is what those words mean. Yet the Dalek Prime in The Four Doctors is simply the commander of a Dalek assault vessel (I don't believe there is anything to suggest it's in charge of the Dalek Empire as a whole) and ends up being pulled back in time with the Doctor(s) to a Dalek war that predates his existence, so there's clearly no intent of its being the first-ever Dalek, either.

Now, if you go to Dalek Prime right now, you'll find the following paragraph:

"According to another account, however, the battle of Pejorica, fought between the Daleks and the Jariden, occurred at a point in Dalek history prior to the creation of the Dalek Prime. The notion of the Dalek Prime as one of the earliest Daleks and their first leader would arise when, after travelling back in time, the Dalek Prime was able to take control of earlier versions of the Daleks, which didn't know about his existence and rank. (AUDIO: The Four Doctors)"

- The Tardis Wiki on the Dalek Prime (retrieved 13/09/2019)

I read that paragraph months ago (even reworded it a bit) before I knew more about The Four Doctors, and assumed that meant everything was A-okay and Big Finish were simply positing that the Dalek Prime being in charge of the Daleks at their very beginning was a result of its retconning itself into their past. That impression was completely unjustified, as it turns out. The Dalek Prime does manage to assume command of the Battle of Pejorica-era Daleks in The Four Doctors, but there is no hint that he went back any further, nor, indeed, much narrative opportunity for it to have done so.

In conclusion, the only time Big Finish used the term of "Dalek Prime", it was in a context utterly unlike everything that had been done with the character until then. That Big Finish posits a long Dalek history before the Dalek Prime existed shouldn't cast doubt as to whether Peel's Dalek Prime is the Dalek Emperor, it should just make us create a Dalek Prime (The Four Doctors) page.

First batch of requested changes
Based on all the evidence above, I am firstly putting forwards the following batch of change, which I feel compelled to point out, could be implemented regardless of whether you also follow the second part of this massive, massive thread, I feel compelled to point out.
 * Information pertaining to the "Prime Dalek" rank referenced in AUDIO: The Thousand Worlds should be moved to Prime Dalek, which should cease being a redirect to Dalek Prime.
 * All information pertaining to the Dalek Prime in AUDIO: The Four Doctors should be removed from the Dalek Prime page and instead transferred to a new Dalek Prime (The Four Doctors) page.
 * Dalek Emperor (The Evil of the Daleks) should be made a redirect to the page Dalek Prime, as "Dalek Prime" is the proper designation of the character who held the title of Dalek Emperor in The Evil of the Daleks.

One question remains: what would we title the page about the Dalek Prime, the singular fellow as understood by John Peel? Part of me feels like he's a primary enough topic to just keep Dalek Prime to himself, but then again, it would be more within established use to have "Dalek Prime" be about the 'title' and its various usages, while giving the Peel Prime a dab term.

What would that dab term be, though? Peel tells us his Dalek Prime is the Dalek who shot Davros in TV: Genesis of the Daleks, which means that story is the Dalek Prime's "first" field in the current infobox, but Dalek Prime (Genesis of the Daleks) would sort of imply that there is a character called the Dalek Prime in the TV story, and the fact is that there isn't. So should we use the first story in which the name was used for this guy? That would be PROSE: The Chase, but of course the Dalek Prime didn't appear in the TV story of the same name, so once more we run the risk of confusing readers.

Crushing similarities
The first thing to note is that John Peel very, very, very obviously meant for the Dalek Prime in PROSE: War of the Daleks to be the same individual as the Golden Emperor dear to all our hearts for his starring role in COMIC: The Dalek Chronicles. They have, for one thing, the same unique casing. Let me demonstrate:

""Doctor," said a Dalek voice. "Welcome." Sam and the Doctor turned to face their host. It was a Dalek, but not like any she had seen before. This one was slightly larger than the others, with a bulbous head. It was a burnished gold colour, and had about a dozen lights about the expanded dome instead of the average Dalek’s two. "The Dalek Prime," the Doctor murmured."

- John Peel in "War"



Granted, different Dalek leaders have had identical casings before. The Dalek Emperor in Parting of the Ways (whom, don't worry, I'll let stand as his own person, though neither is there any conclusive in-universe evidence that he isn't still the same old Dalek Prime AFAIK) had his casing repurposed by the Dalek Emperor in City of the Daleks, and it was made explicit that the City Emperor is a new Emperor installed by the Paradigm who used the old one's casing like a hermit crab stealing another sea creature's shell.

But they're not different Dalek leaders, because they are both the first Dalek, in almost exactly the same way. COMIC: Genesis of Evil sees the first Dalek first moving about in the first of the regular Dalek travel machines before building itself the golden one, presiding over the creation of more Daleks, and finally proclaiming itself the Emperor. PROSE: The Evil of the Daleks tells us that its Dalek Prime was originally the Davros-murderer from TV: Genesis of the Daleks, who had a regular casing, and that he then created more of his kind and declared himself its Emperor; and PROSE: War of the Daleks completes the equivalence by showing us the Dalek Prime gets about in the golden casing in his functions as leader of the Dalek race.

It goes something like this:

"Genesis of Evil" isn't as irreconcilable as it seems
Now, of course, the big thing is that in Peel's texts, the Dalek Prime's being the first-ever Dalek is contextualized as its being the first Dalek created by Davros, the guy who exterminates the scientist in question in TV: Genesis of the Daleks. Whereas in COMIC: Genesis of Evil, he comes into being as an unguided mutation from the neutron war and climbs into one of the travel machines designed by the scientist Yarvelling. Undoubtedly, some conflict exists.

But… first, I would argue that conflict over origin stories doesn't stop two characters from being the same same individual if it's otherwise blindingly obvious that they are meant to be the same individual. The Seventh Doctor in PROSE: Lungbarrow was loomed into existence from discarded bits of Other DNA, the Seventh Doctor in TV: The TV Movie is "human on his mother's side" and has fond childhood memories of his father on Gallifrey. But they are both, for all that, the Seventh Doctor.

And most importantly, John Peel's got you covered. How Genesis of Evil and Genesis of the Daleks can both coexist as valid origins of the Dalek is a topic that is given much attention in PROSE: War of the Daleks. When Davros insists to a Black Dalek that he created the Daleks, the Black Dalek answers with some of the Dalek Prime's wisdom:

"Incorrect. I was created by the neutron war. You merely accelerated the process. The Daleks would have arisen anyway in the fullness of time. The universe was ready for the rise of the Daleks. It was inevitable."

- The Black Dalek

In other words, says the Black Dalek, the Genesis of Evil account of the Daleks coming into being as unguided mutations is exactly what would have happened if Davros hadn't foreseen the Daleks' destiny ahead of time and accelerated their evolution.

Davros does not deny this; instead, his next reply attempts to take credit for the technology the Daleks used, but accepts the premise that the "mewling balls of slime" didn't need his guidance to appear. Note also how he speaks of the species from which the Daleks sprang as simply "their humanoid ancestors", so that it could refer equally to Genesis of the Daleks’s Kaleds or to Genesis of Evil’s humanoid Daleks, depending on which name you prefer. "Without me to guide your creation, the Daleks would have been as weak and pitiful as the humanoid race from which they sprang. It was my genius that created the travel machines you utilise. My genius that made you what you are. Without me, you would all be mewling balls of slime, without technology or a future."

- Davros

Moving along, we see the Dalek Prime (a firsthand witness in all this) restate the Black Dalek's faith in the fact that the Daleks would have come into existence without Davros as a fortuitous mutation, and even wrenches the "but I created your technology, your travel machines!" argument from Davros with this bombshell:

"You did not create the Daleks – our creation was a fortuitous consequence of war. We were destined to become the race we are today. Instead of allowing destiny to run its course, you interfered. That was the first time that you attempted to usurp the power of the Daleks. It was not the last. These travel machines we use were created by the scientists of the Kaled race. You took credit for their work to lend support to your claim of supremacy."

- The Dalek Prime

The Dalek Prime has just said that no, actually, Davros didn't create the Dalek travel machine; instead, some scientists of the pre-Dalek humanoid race came up with them on their own before Davros took credit. Was one those Kaled scientists called Yarvelling, one wonders? Dun, dun, dun.

The Dalek Prime (a first-hand witness in all of this, do recall) has in essence told us that the original, correct timeline was a sequence of events perfectly matching up what we saw in COMIC: Genesis of Evil, but then Davros interfered with the Daleks' 'destiny', stealing the Dalek machine designs from the scientists who had designed them and accelerating the Daleks' evolution. And that is what we saw in TV: Genesis of the Daleks.

To be sure, there are still some discrepancies between the two geneses: did Davros's species prior to the mutations call itself "Kaleds", or "Daleks"? And did they have blue skin and big foreheads, or look almost completely human-like? But those are rather minor, I think. When it comes to species name inconsistencies, the Silurians have had worse. And as concerns designs, one loses tracks of the many, many times Doctor Who has shown us a completely different monster and told us it's the same species as a past baddie (*cough* Cybermen *cough*).

The point is that John Peel refers himself just as much to Genesis of Evil as he does to Genesis of the Daleks in War of the Daleks, and has the Dalek Prime know of the events of both firsthand. The first Dalek in one Genesis is also the first Dalek in the other Genesis, come into being early for timey-wimey reasons centered on the person of Davros. When the story reintroducing the Genesis of Evil Dalek origin story features a guy calling himself the first Dalek, who knows all about the events of Genesis of Evil, and looks and acts exactly like the Golden Emperor, then there's nothing speculative about pointing out that that character is the Golden Emperor.

Second batch of requested changes

 * The page Creation of the Daleks should be amended to reflect that one account at least fully reconciles the Genesis of Evil and Genesis of the Daleks versions. There is still much comparison and "In one account" language to be written, but strictly delineating the two accounts as though they're just completely unrelated and irreconcilable will no longer do.
 * Golden Emperor should be merged into the Dalek Prime article, or whatever we're calling it if we decided to dab it once we've split off Dalek Prime (The Four Doctors) as documented in Part I.

(By the way, Golden Emperor, while indeed used once or twice in-universe, really doesn't hold much water as the guy's most common in-universe name, even within The Dalek Chronicles. I get the feeling we call him that more because everyone else does than because this fits out naming policy. But that point is kinda moot if we go ahead with my suggested merges, as there will no longer be an independent Golden Emperor page and there would be no harm in retaining it as a redirect.)

Afterword
Well that was… crazily long. Phew. But it feels good to finally give forms to all these suspicions and ramblings that have been simmering in my head for a while, and I think the Wiki will be much improved for it if it deigns to acquiesce to my suggestions.

Also, people who subscribe to the commonly-held opinion that War of the Daleks is a bad book should… well, first, they should reconsider: I read it in preparation for this thread, and while it has its flaws (yes, the Eighth Doctor's painfully bland coming off the likes of Vampire Science, and oh yes, the massive Skaro retcon is every bit as dumb and overwrought as everyone says it is), it's not Dimensions in Time either.

But secondly and more relevantly, they should remember that how much we like a story shouldn't affect how accurately we cover its contents on the Wiki. You may not like having John Peel's writing affect how we cover the characters of Evil of the Daleks and dislikeGenesis of the Daleks, but hey, there are quite a few people who hate how Day of the Doctor makes us cover the end of the Time War, too, and that's no reason not to give it the full coverage it demands. Subjective quality differences between DotD vs. WotD aside, this is precisely the same thing.

Also also: yes, I know that I used "COMIC: The Dalek Chronicles" as a citation several times in this thread, and this is naughty, because Dalek Chronicles is a series rather than a single story. I know. But this isn't a page, it's a thread, and so for clarity's sake I allowed myself this unorthodox mode of quotation. Besides, treating Dalek Chronicles as a series of stories rather than one very long serial is as much convention as doing the same for Trial of a Time Lord, if not moreso.

A Post-Scriptum: Get That On Tape!
Also also also: after some praiseworthy sleuthwork for User:Borisashton, this thread ended up digging up interesting information about the related subject of precisely what The Dalek Tapes; since it's as involved as War of the Daleks in the matter of "stories which attempt reconcile the two Dalek Geneses", this closely related topic was basically covered on this thread as well, de facto. Heck, "Geneses", of which The Dalek Tapes certainly is one, was right there in the title of this thread all along. Ergo, here's a third, I think fairly incontroversial requested change:
 * The Dalek Tapes should be valid, making it yet a third (well, fourth) version of the Daleks' origin, yet one which is in truth completely consistent with whichever of the other ones one favors, via an unreliable narrator.