User:SOTO/Forum Archive/Inclusion debates/@comment-28349479-20161216221639/@comment-27280472-20161217005812

Shambala108 wrote: To quote User:CzechOut from Forum:BBV and canon policy:


 * Dig, for example, this quote from Miles himself:
 * Q: So you don't feel that the Faction's too close to Doctor Who?
 * A: No. I'm too much of a monomaniac, probably. While I was writing INTERFERENCE, I think I started to realize that I didn't really want to write about the Doctor any more. I was more interested in the universe around him, and as it was my book that meant the little sub-bubble universe I'd built up since ALIEN BODIES. Which isn't really the Doctor Who universe at all, of course, although it does owe a huge debt to Robert Holmes. So I feel very very comfortable writing stories set in that universe which don't, for example, contain the word TARDIS. Besides, I think Faction Paradox have done their bit in the novels. It would've been terrible, to keep inflicting them on people who just wanted a Doctor story rather than a time-travelling voodoo-cult story.[1]
 * If the creator of the universe himself is saying, directly, it "isn't really the Dotor Who Universe at all", why are we arguing with him? It just seems easier to believe Miles and go with the BBC-approved timeline than to refer to things that are clearly set in at least an alternate DWU as if they were things that happened in the "real" DWU. It's awfully misleading to slip a FP ref into the middle of an article about a DWU topic, because it won't convey to the average reader the notion that this statement is true if and only if you deem the events of The Ancestor Cell non-canonical. The truth of the matter is that that FP at Mad Norwegian and other companies is absolutely not a part of BBC-approved continuity. It's quite different from the Benny stuff, I think, which is simply the further adventures of an ex-companion. It was Miles saying "screw you" to BBC Books. We can't treat it as just another corner of the DWU. In no way, should (Mad Norwegian and beyond) FP be referenced in DWU articles.

(end of CzechOut's quote from above stated policy)

We don't argue with author intent. In Thread:125464, while discussing the inclusion of the Vienna stories, we had some conflicting author/publisher comments, but ruled that the author's statement of the stories being separate from the DWU would determine our policy. The same thing would apply here. Lawrence Miles says it's not DWU, then it's not DWU.

I'm not going to quote the several statements defending our policy at Forum:BBV and canon policy and Forum:How do we best include Faction Paradox on the wiki?; anyone who hasn't read these policies thoroughly should do so (as the OP did).

Saying that author intent is that it's set in a different universe is ignoring all the times when Lawrence Miles himself, and a number of other writers for the series say it's in the same literal, in-narrative universe, in favor of the one where it could be interpreted the other way. It means insisting that it necessarily means that in the narrative it is absolutely a separate and unrelated reality, without considering the idea of a metaphorical use of the term, as when Big Finish describes Graceless and Jago & Litefoot as having their own universes that aren't the same thing as Doctor Who anymore. Doctor Who has a set of recurring characters, general themes, and narrative conventions that can be referred to as a "universe," and differentiated from the differing recurring characters, general themes, and narrative conventions of another series. Have you actually read the original post in this thread, or is this a public policy announcement? Because the original post is obviously bringing up completely valid information on the intentions of the authors.

CzechOut said "this statement is true if and only if you deem the events of The Ancestor Cell non-canonical." A) There is no canon. B) That's absolutely false. This isn't my opinion, this is what the authors and the narrative indicate. The only way that The Ancestor Cell can be said to not have happened in the context of some Faction Paradox series stories is that it hasn't happened yet. Not that it's "non-canonical." Not that it's "an alternate universe." It's in the future. As elaborated in the original post, both Lawrence Miles in person and in his fictional writing has indicated an acceptance of the events of The Ancestor Cell. He has written stories explicitly set both before and after it happens.