User talk:CzechOut

Please note that I will not respond to unsigned posts. I urge you to remember to add four tildes at the end of your post, because '''this is required by wiki policy. Please do not use unsigned on this page, unless you are signing after-the-fact for yourself.

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Hartnell episodes
Related to what you said earlier about stories sharing the same name as William Hartnell-era episodes, there's The Roof of the World (the redirect to the episode) and The Roof of the World (audio story). Little confused about what action to take here, though I'm guessing the current state's non-standard. - 01:59, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Similarly, The Traitors and The Traitors (short story). -- Tybort (talk page) 11:57, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguating and redirects
fallen angel should be at either Fallen Angel or Fallen angel. As there's a pre-existing page, moving it myself just makes an error message. -- Tybort (talk page) 15:51, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

250px
I spent about twenty minutes reading the piece you posted to my talk page, an hour thinking about it. Then I went back and reread it, making notes. I'm sure you realize that you asked direct questions, betrayed unspoken assumptions and raised questions without intending to. The matters involve include issues of philosophy, good writing, possibly outdated wiki policy and the question about whether one size fits all -- there are few people here who know how to use a semi-colon and among those who do, there is a tendency to overuse them. Should they, therefore, be outlawed in these pages? That's a question that will underline almost all of this long reply. You may view it as presumptive of me to say everyone else is wrong and I alone am right. Nonetless, that is what I am going to do here, as if I were to say no one should use a semi-colon but me. You're going to say "no" as a matter of public policy and I understand. Nonetheless, I still assert it. While I make my case -- perhaps my Apologia before you order me to drink that tasty hemlock, I ask you to understand that I have written what appears below with a self-aware twinkle in my eye.

Let's start with the general and head towards the specific: the larger the piece, the more tightly it should be edited. Looking at, say, the page on The Doctor, we see it is 45,000 bytes and has probably twenty articles hanging from it, including his name, his age, each incarnation, his scarf...it's huge. Adding more words and pictures should be done only when absolutely neessary. Pictures should be chosen on grounds of utility and aesthetics; happily, we've got a bunch of pictures of him. Them. Whatever. A bunch to choose from. Articles of similar size and importance (I note without comment that the article on Jack Harkness is close to 80,000 bytes; I won't more than mention that I recently chopped out of the page on Amy Pond the remarable fact that she once dropped an ice cream) should be treated with similar circumspection. This is one of my peeves about the article on River Song, about half the length (in part, I immodestly state, because I go through it two or three times a week to trim it). The triptych at the top is good and the shot of her from The Big Bang saying "Yes!" is excellent, but the others are awful, badly composed, shot too dark and with regeneration energy obscuring. We've got enough good pictures of her that we don't need bad ones.

When you examine the tiny articles, however, you are confronted with the opposite problem. We know there are no small parts, only short ones, but when all we know of a particular actor is that he was, say, a Greek in The Myth Makers, is it too much to put a picture of him on the page? What if the only picture I can locate without copyright issues is the one of him on the character page? Yes, I would like a head shot in civvies, but that's all there is. No one is going to bother going back oto the other page, and adding a picture to an article that is 500 bytes is not going to strain anyone's attention span.

From these extreme cases, I derive a general rule of good writing: long articles should be edited to the bone. Short articles should be granted some leeway so the subject can warn people to stand aside, this one takes big steps.

Unhappily for you as an administrator, these decisions require judgment, and consensus, two commodities always in short supply and almost invariably opposed to each other. You hanker for hard rules nd bright lines so you don't annoy people by showing favoritism. I don't envy you the responsibility. I, on the other hand, do have judgment and have used it for forty years in making a living by saying the consensus is wrong. While I regret the headaches it will cause you, consensus must be revisted at least occasionally lest the sins of the fathers be visited on the sons..... and more frequently if my judgment says they are wrong. A single photo of an actor in costume in his one DWU role makes the article better than it was without it.Boblipton talk to me 20:01, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

I suoppose the simplest solution is to simply not post any more pictures. Boblipton talk to me 21:23, December 12, 2011 (UTC)\

I disagree with them. Boblipton talk to me 21:33, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

I understand your issues. I have agreed to abide by the rules you have imposed. Boblipton talk to me 22:51, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

They are too simplistic and too rigid. They do not permit me to make judgments and rather than read them carefully and regularly and do the extra work involved in making the decision each time as to whether a particular image falls inside or outside the narrow bright line of what is permitted, it's easier, more productive and less frustrating to avoid adding the pictures. It may seem to you that I see a picture, I add it on. Not true. I decide about a third of the time not to include a picture because it doesn't meet my standards. It's hard enough for me to work out what I think is right, let alone what a doen strangers thought was right three years ago. I believe the time I have to work around here is better served otherwise. Boblipton talk to me 21:43, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

More confusion over what series this belongs to.
Are the stories collected in Wildthyme on Top Big Finish Iris Wildthyme audios? New Worlds stories? Both at once? -- Tybort (talk page) 22:55, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Painting out speech bubbles
Do we have a policy on this? Is it okay to "photoshop" an image a little bit to paint out speech bubbles to give us a usable image? Or is it better to leave the image 'as presented originally'? --Tangerineduel / talk 14:42, December 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Righty, that all makes sense.
 * I just wanted to be sure, as I've recently found my slightly dog-eared copy of The Dalek Chronicles and have been reading through/scanning some pages to populate the various stories with some images. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:50, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Customising
Hi. I'm an admin on the Simpsons Wiki, and I'm wondering how to do lots of customising. It's mainly the message notification and the badges. For the message thing, do you know how to change the 'message' to 'postcard' or 'owl' or something like that? Also, do you know how the leaderboard was changed to the Game of Rassilon? If you don't, can you please link me to who would? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Randomno (talk) 16:25, December 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi. Thanks for the info, I've changed some things. Could you please link me to how to change 'recent earned badges' and the leaderboard page title?

Preload
I see unable to add any template from the preload option at the side of the page. I click on a red link, go to the preload drop down, select character and nothing happens. Is there any reason why this is and how to fix it? MM/ Want to talk? 18:25, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Comics
Hello. I noticed you reverted my edits on Template:Doctor Who Wiki/Comics because they linked to non-existent pages. I can understand why people would have a problem with that, but surely there is more cause to create these pages - at least as stubs - than to link the page to old stories. The section is called "Latest Comics" and thus it is misleading for it to display old comics. The preceding comment was made by Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 23:20, December 17, 2011 (UTC)

Stubs
I have, and I will hold my hands up to say I made a mistake. However, I not happy with the policy and will raise a forum discussion at some point in the future. They are important sections and if empty - especially if both are empty, the page should be made a stub. MM/ Want to talk? 00:02, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

Unregistered user edit issue
When you've got a moment could you take a look at IP user's talk page; User_talk:41.132.228.79. It looks to be a Wiki-specific issue, though I'm not really sure what. We've got other IP/anon users so it can't be something affecting all anon users.

His edit summaries to the UNIT dating controversy article at first made me think he was a vandal, but [it looks like something as a result of him editing. Thanks. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / talk 13:58, December 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nope. I never use the visual editor.
 * But it must by the IP editor who is using the visual editor that's causing the problems. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:58, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

The CGCJ mixup
Ok, I've found out that User:Gangster Penguin was being used yesterday by Clones younger brother, since they share the IP (which you blocked) Clone is upset about this and would greatly apperciate it if you revoked his ban. After all, the Tardis Index file is Clone Gunner Commander Jedi's favorite wiki.

From the desk of Br1ck an1mator  16:38, December 19, 2011 (UTC) 13:44: Tue 20 Dec 2011

a request
I don't know how else to ask you this, so posting here to ask you to disable my account because I spend far too much time here. Thank you. --Stardizzy2 talk to me 01:13, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Hello, sir
Please forgive my deficiency to write in a proper British English, sir. I realized that you are the major technical administrator on this site, on which I have come to adore. In mentioning this, I have a query: How did you insert that calender/clock above the random page button? With your permission sir, I plan to use it on one of my wikis. Thank you for reading sir. Anakin Skyobiliviator ( talk ) 18:13, December 22, 2011 (UTC) 19:32: Thu 22 Dec 2011

Thank you
I appreciate you helpfulness. Anakin Skyobiliviator ( talk ) 03:56, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to disturb you again, sir.
But, do you know how to send a message to every user's talk page without going to everyone? Anakin Skyobiliviator ( talk ) 05:15, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Who?
Which person is the best to talk to? Anakin Skyobiliviator ( talk ) 05:50, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

Uncategorised images
We have a fairly high number of uncategorised images. Since we will most likely have a large amount of images upload over the festive period (mainly images from the new special, as well as from new users who stick around). I'm wondering if you want to ran the bot through the uncategorised images and just delete them or if it would be best to add the licence tags to them.

I'm thinking this is best down before the 25th/26th, since that is the most likely time images will be added and deleteing the uncategorised ones now will save time in the future. So, what should we be doing? MM/ Want to talk? 13:11, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

New Earth (planet)
Should the planet from the TV story of the same really be ambiguated as "New Earth (planet)"? Granted, "New Earth (New Earth)" doesn't sound right either, but aren't ALL "New Earths" on the disambiguation page planets, so to speak? -- Tybort (talk page) 20:02, December 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * What about New Earth related categories? I assume that the other New Earths don't actually have enough individuals, stories set there or locations to require their OWN category, but is that still good form? -- Tybort (talk page) 03:16, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

thanks!
Thanks for the invitation to the forum! I've been waiting for one of these for ages! Metardis talk to me 19:58, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Mentions
I have noted that "mentions" is not working on multiple pages, notiably Omega and Dalek. Is there a way to fix this? --OS24 02:08, December 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes, right, sorry. Merry Christmas! (Or other Holiday) --OS24 06:44, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Re:1849
The Discontinuity Guide says it is set on October 2nd 1849. --MrThermomanPreacher talk to me 20:30, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Vandal
User:2.102.43.146 appears to be a vandal, as he added the following to Peri Brown:


 * "She has smashing tits." Just thought I should mention it... --OS24 04:59, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

a question
Hi! now, when I was looking on the recent changes and what doe's the -number thing mean? Like this: 21:24 Shaun (The Lodger)‎‎ (3 changes | hist). . (+131) . . [Tirenifs‎ (3×)] Metardis talk to me 21:55, December 26, 2011 (UTC)

Outnumbered
Shouldn't Category:Actors who appeared in the Outnumbered franchise be Category: Actors who appeared in Outnumbered? It's not a franchise, as it consists of the original TV show and nothing else. No spin-offs, no video games, no merchandise, no other media except for DVD releases. User:Mini-mitch suggested that your bot could do the name change. Digifiend 01:48, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

REF books.
I have read over Forum:The Unspecified Cyberman Debate, and noticed your argument about how REF books shouldn't be counted as canon, because they are written from an out of Universe perspective. 100% agree with you, but I have but one REF book that I think is an exception to this rule.

I'm sure you know of it, it's a little infamous book called Doctor Who: Cybermen. This was my first Doctor Who book, interestingly enough, and I am know it VERY well. You see, the thing about the book is, it's cut into three sections. Section one is called CONCEPT: Cyberman as idea. The second is  called Archive: a history of the cyber race and the third is called Program: the Cybermen on TV.

Now the first section goes into how the idea for The Tenth Planet and the original Cybermen came about. It looks at the growing popularity of robotics in England that lead to such an idea. The third section goes into the writing, casting, and filming of the episodes that went on air, along with looking at comics, possible future Cybermen (that would inspire Real Time (webcast)), and also looking at an unproduced Fifth Doctor story entitled Genesis of the Cybermen.

Now I know what your thinking, dosent sound very "in-Universe," right? Well, it's the middle section that goes as the afore mentioned "exception."

The second section, entitled Archive: a history of the Cyber race. It is, in fact, written in an "in-Universe" fashion. It presents itself as a human (likely in the future) investigating files from "the great Arc Hives" involving Cybermen. It goes through the existing episodes in chronological order, starting at The Invasion and ending at The Five Doctors, AKA document (0). It never references episode names, rather giving nick names to each case, such as "First Invasion of Earth (Document1)", as apposed to leading it "The Invasion." It never references actors, casting, shooting, or designing, but instead goes through the entire book as if the Cybermen were real, the hole time staying in the character of this human going through "CyberDocuments." It makes a final note at the end (in the 1989 edition that I have) that a new CyberDocument has been discoverd and is being analysed, and that it suggests a shocking further reach of the Cybermen's grasp on the galaxy, obviously referencing the yet-to-air story Silver Nemesis in an in-Universe fashion.

So to conclude, this book is written from pages 31 to 84 in an in-Universe fashion, and thus should be counted as canon. All other pages should go as most REF rules do, but the middle section, in my opinion, should be counted as just another novel, as it is written in an in-Universe fashion. Sorry to write the novel on your talk page, I hope to hear from you soon! OS25 (talk to me.) 08:17, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Infobox mentions
Hi :)

Just wondering, in an Infobox Character, the "mentions" section doesn't seem to show. Do you think you could fix this. Thanks Layton4 talk to me 11:25, December 28, 2011 (UTC)

Actions / Discussions
Have I missed a forum post somewhere that means we can just jump the discussion portion of things here?

I mean we waited a week even after a user was blocked for the Dalek image discussion, and yet less than hour between talk post and import on the DW writers page.

I understand you were the creator of the page, but, as we're importing the page don't we have to tag the page with the Wikipedia template, something we actively discourage? --Tangerineduel / talk 16:28, December 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Righty, I just wanted to raise it, in part because I was surprised at your speed of discussion to action! And also so we've had this discussion should it be raised in the future. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:51, December 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if issue of content porting is one we're likely to come across too often. As you've spent more time on Wikipedia's Doctor Who stuff do you think this is something that should be brought to the community, if not we'll leave it as is for the moment. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:59, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Vandal 2
Sorry to bother once more lik this, but User:90.202.190.145 has made some questionable edits, like how on TARDIS he changed The TARDIS acronym to a very questionable set of inappropriate words strewn together. When I reversed his edit, he continued to blank all but the first two paragraphs and a new line that said:
 * ''[Specifics have been hidden and are only viewable when editing this section. Be aware that the hidden bits contain gratuitous and immature swearing.]

what the-?!
Hi, I'm just wondering, how did you do your signature without loads of code?! I mean, this is the code for it: <span style="!  !Me  tard  iS!  20:58, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Oh. On second thoughts....... !Me tard  iS!  21:00, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

I have read it, (no. I read the stuff I didn't know) and there's one thing I don't get. Do you create User:YourName/autosig and do the whole the it say's or what? !Me tard  iS!  21:25, December 29, 2011 (UTC) Ok, thanks. I understand the templates, but czech out the signature! !Me tar  di  S!  09:04, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Inferno
I seem to have inadvertantly recreated "Inferno" in the form of its intro just as you were moving it. Sorry about that. Boblipton talk to me 01:15, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

what is the coding
Hi, could you tell me what the coding is for the bacround color is? !Ṃě ṭáṛ  đì  Ṣ!   ΣḍΊţŜ ṣìṇςə 2011! 11:20, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Master Template
On Template:Master stories, Trail of the White Worm and The Oseidon Adventure are listed as The Master (Dust Breeding) stories, despite them being The Master (UNIT years) ones. Can you remedy this? OS25 (talk to me.) 14:56, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

?
for the past for half hour, I've been browsing on the Fora. So far, the it's been horrible and disapointing. Could you just tell me the code for the bacround and where to put it, or is it to dificult to explain? !Ṃě ṭáṛ  đì  Ṣ!   ΣḍΊţŜ ṣìṇςƏ ĴùṇƏ 2011 19:02, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

More subject removal
Utopia and Utopia (planet) should be Utopia (Utopia) as there's already a Utopia (The Tomorrow Windows). Also, could you move the disambiguation page Utopia (disambiguation) to Utopia's spot? - Tybort (talk page) 20:31, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I think this is probably suited for the bot, not sure, but people in the category Category:Actors who appeared in the Vicar of Dibley should really be in Category:Actors who appeared in The Vicar of Dibley. (Possibly "the Lord of the Rings" --> "The Lord of the Rings" and "the Chronicles of Narnia" to "The Chronicles of Narnia", too, though I'm less certain to whether or not they're fine as they are) -- Tybort (talk page) 00:56, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, Sherlock Holmes, hmm. Tricky. "Who appeared in Sherlock Holmes adaptations", perhaps? Short answer: no idea. Though I do have a question; would the Basil Rathbone movies and Jeremy Brett ITV series count as their "franchises" or not? -- Tybort (talk page) 02:58, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

my apologies for leaving what should be a private message here
Please accept my apologies for leaving what probably should be a private message here. I think it inappropriate for you to ask Tybort something like "Why do you object to this when boblipton isn't opposed?" I can't tell if I am being presented as some sort of crazy bad example, some higher authority or a bizarre hybrid of the two, but in any case, please stop. I despise appeals to authority -- whether to elevate or to prevent the huts from sinking into the swamp. Tybort is not a troll, he is one of the people who like to fill out the details in which I have no competence, and if he thought deleting those pages was a good idea, then he had good reasons. Perhaps they were not sufficient reasons for you. but I resent being used as a bludgeon to whack them out of him. I turned down your offer to make me staff -- and aren't you glad now?! -- because I did not wish this arbitrary sort of authority. In the future, if you wish to bludgeon someone trying to be helpful out of actually thinking, please do it in your own name, not mine. In the meantime, since this is being posted on your talk page because of a lack of a useful way of sending you a private message, please feel free to delete it. I know it's contrary to wiki policy, but I don't care. Boblipton talk to me 02:26, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Caution: plagiarism

 * I understand your actions, czechout, and accept your warning and advice. I apologise for what I did; I guess I must have gotten a little carried away in my editing. :-( Rest assured, it won't happen again. Freddie R. Aldous talk to me 16:51, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Main page?
Hi, Czechout. Isn't time you locked the Main page? ''' !Ṃě ṭáṛ đί Ṣ!   ΣḍΊţŜ ṣìṇςƏ  ĴùṇƏ  2011 ! ''' 20:02, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Simon Fisher-Becker
This is where I got the Image from: http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Simon_Fisher-Becker. In my previous Upload of the image, I mentioned in the description that I didn't know what licensing it should be under, so I asked for what it should've been, and in the meantime, I set a random Licencing so the Image could be Uploaded, and then edited later to show the correct Licensing. So what Licensing should it be under? -Angel Bill.

5:02pm, 22/04/2011
The Deleted page wasn't actually meant to be about the time. it was meant to be about the parallel universe in which it was always that time. I gave it that title because i had no other idead of what it should actually be called.

K9's Award For Being So Affirmative badge
I just made an edit on The Nightmare Man, and then got the K9's Award For Being So Affirmative badge. I find this odd, as the badge is given to someone who makes 1 edit on a K9 TV Episode page, but the Nightmare man isn't a K9 episode. It's a Sarah jane Adventures episode. Is this some kind of mistake? And if it's not, can you explain it to me, cuz I just don't get it.

Sock Puppet
Can Wikia run a test against to different accounts to test for Sock Puppetry? I have a feeling that an old, blocked User is back via a new account - with the exact same edit pattern. MM/ Want to talk? 00:21, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

More moves.
Angela Price should be Angela Price (Rise of the Cybermen), and Francine should be Francine (The Maltese Penguin). -- Tybort (talk page) 04:10, January 3, 2012 (UTC)

sorry
OK. Sorry. This may not be the time, but I have discovored a obvious bug. In the bottom right, a section is blanked out. With my regards, ''' !Ṃ'ě 'ṭ'á'ṛ  đ'ί  'Ṣ'! Oh. It isn't. <:)  !Ṃ'ě 'ṭ'á'ṛ  đ'ί  'Ṣ'!    at     

Wrong name
Good idea, but, looking at it on the Project Lazarus (audio story) page it's a little large, and on the Project Lazarus it seems overly large, especially if we ever wanted to add an image. Can I suggest just having a box that hides most of the info within a show/hide function and just have a short title showing? --Tangerineduel / talk 15:40, January 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I only just noticed it!
 * Doesn't really bug me. I just thought I'd mention it while you (seemed) to be messing around with it. Add it to the "not remotely urgent, don't worry" about it list. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:00, January 5, 2012 (UTC)

The Master pages
Hey, User:Sinefirt has made some SERIOUS moderations to the pages on The Master... Mainly the pages previously known as The Master (Bruce) and The Master (The Fallen).. I don't know if we should approve or not of these edits, but either way, it will take a lot of cleaning up, mainly with Template:Masters.... I just wanted to know what you wanted to do before I started cleaning up. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:59, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * On a related note, he changed Alternative Fourth Doctor to Fourth Doctor (The Seven Keys to Doomsday). While a probable improvement, given that the original stage play is called Doctor Who and the Daleks in The Seven Keys to Doomsday, should the part in brackets be that, or not? -- Tybort (talk page) 02:59, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sinefirt also made many more similar page moves. Could you please take a look at them?  Tardis1963   talk  07:09, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sinefirt's review
I just wanted to check before I started undoing more pages (undid all the 1-10 Doctors had Cat:Incarnations of the Doctor added), then I noticed your block/warning/review. Are you still reviewing the user's edits or can we move the edits back first as they're all missing even edit summaries. Thanks. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:07, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Fonts
Hi again. I've done quite a bit with the messages since I last sent you a message, but I'm now wondering about the fonts and capitals and stuff. I noticed MediaWiki:Edit is normal text, but your font and color etc. is different on pages. Do you know where I can change things like this. I'll b back soon. User:RandomnoTalk 19:06, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Hi Czechout. Have you noticed the coloring in your talk page? It could be a bug on my computer, or my sig. Anyway this may be as though I am stating the obvius :)  !Ṃ'ě 'ṭ'á'ṛ  đ'ί  'Ṣ'!    at    

commas
About eighty percent of the problem of discussing English grammar is that the language used is actuall meant to discuss Latin or Greek. It must be forty years since I've heard the term apositive referring to anything but blood typing. While I appreciate your issues -- and you will notice that in my comments to Mitch, I told him I would give him time to think about this until the normal course of random edits made me hit this particular example again. I appreciate the occasional useful tip I get and thought he might appreciate this one.

I can see why you encourage people to use commas when they are in doubt, but I am not in doubt. Certainly, I spend a lot of time correcing errors that are too subtle for many of the contributors to grok:not just the difference between subordinate clauses and defining clauses which may or may not require a comma, but the difference between a comma and a period. Subtlety is a relative matter, of course, but this is not a subtle matter to me, any more than all those edits in which I cut the pointless linking clauses. Probably I will get around to the issue in the course of one of my rants, but this is well down the list of gross errors. Or maybe I'll just link to youtube and Victor Borge's skit on phonetic punctuation.

In the meantime, perhaps you can help me with a subtle error that I cn't seem to overcome: I have been trying to put IMDB links into actors and crew using the   template. I keep getting the 404 message. Perhaps you can clarify what, if any steps, I am missing. Boblipton talk to me 21:31, January 9, 2012 (UTC)