Forum:Versions of Shada (again)

The multiple versions of Shada have been discussed before, but I've got a new wrinkle. When we have conflict between a televised story and a novelisation, we go with the TV version, but in the case of Shada there isn't really a TV version. And in the afterword to the novelisation, Gareth Roberts says that he worked from versions of the script that were later than the version released with the Shada VHS (which I've just got hold of myself, as it wasn't released with the videotape in the US). So which takes precedence?

The specific detail I'm wondering about is about the other prisoners in Shada (the prison). We have articles at Sabjatric and Rungar, which is how they're spelled in the script book; in that version (and the webcast/audio version(s)) we don't learn much about them, and it's not clear whether they're Time Lords or not. In the novelisation, they're definitely Time Lords, we learn about their histories, and their names are spelled Subjatric and Rundgar. Obviously, these are the same characters, so it would be silly to have separate pages about the maybe-Time-Lord Sabjatric and the definitely-Time-Lord Subjatric; a behind-the-scenes note can explain. But which spelling should the article be at? We don't have any way of knowing whether the spellings Roberts uses come from the later scripts, or if they're his introduction. Hmmm. —Josiah Rowe talk to me 20:01, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll come back in a bit with a more detailed response, but can I just quickly say how much I hate Shada? It's so much more trouble than it's worth.  23:01: Sun 10 Jun 2012

This question also affects Dronid (or is it Drornid?), though there are also other factors at play there. —Josiah Rowe talk to me 23:49, June 11, 2012 (UTC)


 * After thinkin' about this for a while, I believe the order of precedence goes:
 * Shada (webcast) - clearly at the top because it's the only BBC broadcast version, even if the original channel was BBCi, not BBC1
 * Shada (audio story) - derivative of webcast, but officially released in its entirety. Anything which does not conflict with webcast is valid.
 * Then, considered separately, there's:
 * Shada (novelisation) — Since it's not a novelisation of the valid forms of the story, it's its own deal. This is to the webcast what NA: Human Nature is to DW: Human Nature.  This is the closest the would-be televised version comes to inclusion.
 * Not valid sources at all:
 * Shada (TV story), since it's a giant deleted scene. We've ruled at this discussion that deleted scenes aren't valid sources.
 * Script book, because a script is by definition a behind-the-scenes document. It's hard enough knowing when a script of a completed episode should be taken seriously; with a story that never was finished, it's flatly impossible.  We can't possibly know that what was in the script would have made it to the screen, yanno?   05:03: Tue 12 Jun 2012


 * So, in the cases of Sabjatric and Rungar, we would go with the spellings used in the webcast (at least, I think they were on-screen — unfortunately, although the pages framing the webcast are still up, the actual videos seem not to be there, or at least I can't play them on my Flash-hating Mac). And we could say that they were Time Lords, because there's nothing in the webcast or audio versions to contradict that (though we would, of course, note this ambiguity in a behind-the-scenes note). But what about Dronid/Drornid? I don't know if we can base the spelling on actors' pronunciations, and I don't think it was written in any of the ancillary material of either the webcast or the CD. I suppose that since Alien Bodies is the earliest published valid source which writes the planet's name, we could say that we're going with Dronid... but it's still a bit arbitrary. —Josiah Rowe talk to me 05:47, June 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * P.S. This means that as far as the in-universe portion of this wiki is concerned, Chris Parsons was from Glasgow, not Bristol. —Josiah Rowe talk to me 05:50, June 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, you can play Shada on a Mac — though probably not an iPad — from the official website. You just have to choose to play the segment in full screen from the link at the bottom-centre of the frame.


 * As for Dronid, well, ya have to choose something. When it comes to titles, you can only have one.  So, yeah, it's arbitrary, but your approach seems reasoned as well as it can be.  Also, the addition of an extra "r" in this instance indicates regional accent, not definitive spelling.  It could easily be that the actual spelling is Dronid, but that some people pronounce it Drornid.    14:16: Tue 12 Jun 2012


 * Thanks for the pointer for playing the webcast! —Josiah Rowe talk to me 14:43, June 12, 2012 (UTC)

And now that I've reviewed the webcast, I've found that the spelling which flashes ever-so-briefly on the screen, in reverse, is Sabajatrik. Dunno where "Sabjatric" came from. Discussion here; I'll make the move as long as nobody objects. —Josiah Rowe talk to me 04:35, June 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * I was going to suggest that we could treat the TV story of Shada as we do novelisations for other stories. So apply the reverse of our novelisation/TV story rule to Shada. Which I like as an idea because it'd give us more images to work with and some particulars of story that the webcast doesn't give us. But I don't think it'd be workable within the wider wiki.


 * So I don't have any issues with the order of precedence that CzechOut has proposed.


 * Also just on the webcasts, Shalka is also in the same boat as Shada go from the episodes page and click high or low bandwidth and it'll say you need flash, if you click "full screen" it'll load perfectly fine. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:16, June 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * That's a good point about the images. I take the point about deleted scenes not being canonical, but isn't there some loophole we could use to keep the images from the VHS? —Josiah Rowe talk to me 16:40, June 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * P.S. Sabjatric is now Sabjatrik. —Josiah Rowe talk to me 16:40, June 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * The loophole for images from the VHS is that they can be in behind the scenes sections, in much the same way that the primary image of Varga plant is from City of the Daleks, but a shot of the "Mission to the Unknown" image is in the BTS section. But, under this order of precedence (which we've not always observed) the VHS image can't be the outright infobox image. This order of precedence should not be read as a call to delete the VHS images from the site — just to use them in different ways.  21:40: Fri 15 Jun 2012