Talk:The Waters of Mars (TV story)

Sharon Duncan-Brewster
Okay, we all know she has an unknown roll, right? Well, on IMDB, she is listed as the rani! 11:27, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the IMDB is almost as user-generated as a wiki. And, like a wiki, mistakes happen. I have a friend who worked for Pixar that struggled for years to get an erroneous credit changed (they said she was a costume designer on a film that was made when she was eleven). (PS - please sign your posts.) Monkey with a Gun 17:58, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

But so is Timothy Dalton, and he's listed as a time lord. Therefore referencing to the trailer for (DW:End of Time). Maybe one of the 'unknown' women in the trailer was The Rani?

Anagrams and speculation.
Okay, we know RTD likes anagrams. But I'm removing the note that "This title is an Anagram of "Wars of the Master". Because a quick run through the Internet Anagram Server shows that so is "worse aftermaths", "earthworm feast", "Mere shorts? Fatwa!", "Ow - asthma ferrets", "swarms of theater" and "a hamster two-fer". - Monkey with a Gun 09:09, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The Master of Wars


 * Personally, I'm leaning toward "Ow - Asthma Ferrets" or "A Hampster Two-fer". The Doctor versus an army of martian rodents... now that's terrifying. --Raukodraug 15:59, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * ENOUGH about the Master (and the Ood for that matter! Come on, I don't mean to be rude to the fans, but it's pretty obvious that the four drum beat relates to the Master, and it has already been stated by David Tennant that the reference isn't what fans are expecting! Besides, we have no idea if the Ood will be featured, or if there is any corilation between aliens featured in the past and the upcoming's special. Thanks for your time


 * Calm down. And sign your comments, even if all you have is an IP address.--TheOmnius 02:01, 21 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The speculation about the Ood being involved in the specials is mentioned in |this article over at Io9 (Speculation/spoilers) .--Raukodraug 15:02, 21 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but that isn't a reason to add the Master over all this


 * DWM 408 has 2 anagrams of this story, Wars of The Master and Hamster Software - Dalek036


 * The Ood coming back has been confirmed in the trailer for 

Protection
Would some sort of protection of this page be relevant, against unregister users, because I removed "The Doctor will be wearing the blue version of his suit" or something to that affected from the "Story Notes" category Bigshowbower 12:21, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Done, I've chucked a semi-protect on it, against unregistered user edits. --Tangerineduel 15:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC)


 * When should the protection be removed from this article? Now that the broadcast date has been confirmed any information that should start to filter out should have more weight. Or later a week or so after the broadcast to prevent rampant unregistered user edits? --Tangerineduel 05:31, October 31, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd said a week after the broadcast, you never know what could happen with the unregisted users, it would not hurt. Bigshowbower 05:54, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Elements
A thought has occurred to me that may not work out, but here it is.

There are four linked specials in the gap year, excluding The Next Doctor. The first one, Planet of the Dead, can be seen to take the place of either the Earth or Wind elements, due to the nature of the planet and the sandstorms and weather. Waters of Mars obviously takes the Water role.

The final two specials may turn out to follow this pattern as well - in which case I would guess that the fourth special will be Fire.

This is just a guess/thought, and probably won't turn out to be anything.


 * Wow, I can't believe I forgot to sign this. The above comment was made by me.  --TheOmnius 16:00, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

That is a really good point! I think Planet of the Dead has got to be Earth. After The Waters of Mars there's The End of Time, the Tenth Doctor's last episode. Fire, burning? Sounds like a finale to me! The Next Doctor might have been Wind, because of Jackson Lake's TARDIS using wind to move around in the air and stuff. Also, the snow being whipped up and thrown around in gusts of wind. Just an idea.

...
Who keeps putting Ood Sigma in the cast list? There's NOWHERE this has been confirmed. Bad Wolf Bad Wolf 19:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

That didn't make sense to me either i changed it to possibly and another person gave it it's own bullet point but why would it be Ood Sigma anywayif this is pre- release from slavery shouldn't be be with halpen and post why would he move to such a different planet. --Assassin of death 14:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Robot
I've been looking at the filming photos of the episode and some of the pictures are of some strange looking robot dose anyone know anything about it ?

rumours
Do not look here unless you enjoy spoilers/images which bring much puzzlement about future DW episodes. The image raises so many questions, especially the costume on the left.



Whqttt 23:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Rose?
If you pause the waters of mars trailer at 23 se.conds it's the bit where a blue screen flickers you can see a blonde girl holding a baby she looks alot like rose hair wise


 * Yeah I, and many others, have noticed that. Whoniverse93 23:02, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * But there is a blonde woman who is played by Cosmina shaw it could be her afetr all. I have seen pics on BBC doctor who website where Alan Ruscoe, Chook Sibtoo (Or whatever you call him) and Sharon Duncan Brewster have all been taken over by this lood thing. --Catkind121 19:52, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, it's not Rose, I paused it and got her face so i print screened it and posted it om here somewhere, looks like Rose - but this is somebody a lot older. Saxon 3 20:26, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Space Suit Rumours
on the trailer the Doctor is wearing a Sanctuary Base Spacesuit. So they must be on a Sanctuary a Sanctuary Base


 * In fact, in a picture on the front of the 14-20th November Issue of the Radio Times, the Doctor is seen wearing a space suit with a 'SB6' logo. Presumably, this stands for Sanctuary Base 6. As we know that this base is on Krop Tor, it would seem unusual that the Doctor should wear such a suit on Mars. Perhaps it is the only space suit he owns? Did he keep it after 'The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit'? Slartibarto 19:19, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * The Doctor has always had this space suit since the first episode we saw him in it, infact he was wearing this space suit in Blue Moon in 1969, so it doesnt mean he's at a sanctuary base. He is wearing the spacesuit because how else is he going to go walking around on Mars?Saxon 3 19:24, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * This idea seems to make sense. The Doctor needed a space suit and thus used one he had stored in the TARDIS from a previous adventure. Slartibarto 20:52, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah I agree. In the new trailer it looks like he leaves the Tardis in the suit when he first arrives. Michael Downey 21:13, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * It is his SB6 suit, branded and everything, presumably since he wore it into the TARDIS escaping from the Satan Pit, he kept it somewhere in the TARDIS and eventually found use for it on Mar's later on. Screenshots can be provided if necessary. Someone add this into the story notes please. - 121.44.179.181 11:59, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Errors
Under "Unconfirmed Rumors" there is a few spelling mistakes. Can someone please fix it? 80.44.254.153 18:01, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * you could fix them if you wanted (unless someone has made the article semi-protected). anyway, unconfirmed rumours don't belong in articles. they belong on the Howling forum.--66.92.88.147 18:52, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * how can rumours be confirmed? then they're called facts.

I'm not yet able to view this episode, but the error note about Adelaide's news article can also be explained by anyone who's done basic genealogy research. If Adelaide was born early in the calendar year and her parents died late in the calendar year, the statement(s) would basically be correct. Newspapers (or family's writing obituaries) often blur the specific ages. (i.e. 9 years, 9 months is rounded up to 10 years). 173.22.27.216 23:21, November 20, 2009 (UTC) --173.22.27.216 23:21, November 20, 2009 (UTC)

The Ice Warriors Rumour
I've removed the rumour regarding them as the explaination was "Fans of classic Who will surely be hoping for a shock appearance by the Ice Warriors who hail from Mars." not much confirmation Bigshowbower 07:19, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

i hope it will feature a reference to the Ice Warriors at least, seeing as though it is their home planet after all =D Sclera1 08:49, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Transmission Date
Now that we definitely know that WoM will NOT be transmitted on 31 October, please can we scotch the rumour that it will be? Ic451 08:42, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

How do we know its not? Remind me please thanks. Michael Downey 11:09, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Someone has placed a broadcast date without references or nothing so will delete. Michael Downey 19:40, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Someone has stated the WoM will be transmitted on the 20th Novemeber. This is both highly unlikely and unconfirmed. BBC1 will be broadcasting Children in Need on 20/11/09 for the majority of the evening. Therefore there is unlikely to be a suitible time slot available for WoM on that date. Sezfaz 10:06, October 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * David Tennant confirmed broadcast date as the 15th November 2009 at 7pm on BBC1 on GMTV this morning. Michael Downey 10:05, October 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well put that in the story notes and/or provide a link to it if you can. Bigshowbower 10:17, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Air date
Waters of Mars will be aired on November 15th 2009 (Sunday)

Russell T Davies - BBC Official--86.143.248.17 11:48, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Never use YouTube as citation, however, because those links are, at best, temporary. I have replaced it with the Doctor Who News Page report, and even that should be replaced with a non-tabloid news source at first opportunity. Presumably the BBC will make an official announcement soon and we can use that for the source. 23skidoo 13:10, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

IMDb information
The Story Notes section had included some information cited as "confirmed by the IMDb". The IMDb confirms nothing and is not peer-reviewed. It cannot be used as "confirmation" regarding casting for yet-to-be broadcast productions. Therefore this is a rumour until the BBC confirms. The deleted material follows:
 * The IMDB.com website has confirmed that the actor Timothy Dalton will be appearing as a Time Lord and the actress Sharon Duncan-Brewster is playing a character called Maggie Cain.

Normally I would have simply moved the information to the Rumours section, but as it appears that Rumours are being handled differently for this story than for others (including The End of the Time), I just deleted it instead. 23skidoo 23:35, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Good descision. Digital Spy have now confirmed that Sharon Duncan-Brewster plays Maggie Cain, but no word of Timothy Dalton playing a Time Lord -- Will101 23:38, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

IMDB has still not been update therefor it is wrong. --Catkind121 14:58, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Trailer for End of Time
I removed a pointless item from the story notes regarding a trailer for End of Time airing at the end of Waters of Mars. The fact it was unsourced is neither here nor there; they almost always run a trailer for the next story, so there's nothing notable about this fact. Now if they were going to air a trailer for Series 5 at the end of WOM (though why then and not after End of Time is beyond me), then that would be notable. 23skidoo 01:33, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Doing up
I know its only just been broadcast, but it really needs to be done up. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit 02:07, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Has it just been broadcast? I think you need to wait another 15 hours or so to make that assertion. --Tangerineduel 03:48, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

Proposed ammendment to Discontinuity, Plot Holes, Errors section

 * Here's an error: The doctor sends Gadget through all of the infected water. Later on he takes Gadget back to Earth. Wouldn't Gadget still have water on him and infect the earth?

That's discussed below. MarcRS 07:07, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

I can't edit because its semi-protected, but I have some additions to the section that should be added soon:


 * If no Human had ever heard of the Ice Warriors then how can the invasion of London by the Ice Warriors in 1997 have happened? The novels may not be canon; also, that event may have been in flux, like how no one had heard of the Daleks in Dalek despite the Earth being moved years before. Also, it is never explicitly stated that Humans have never heard of the Ice Warriors. When the Doctor mentions them, Adelaide simply states, "I haven't got time for stories," not saying whether she has heard of the Ice Warriors in the story. In fact, she does not seem surprised by thier existence.


 * After the explosion of the shuttle, several fires are burning all around the site. Now taking into account the initial explosion was fueled by the base's oxygen, and given that Mars has no appreciable atmosphere, how can these smaller fires burn in the vacuum?Because Mars does have an atmosphere. It is in no way a vaccum.

Can anyone put it in? Is this appropriate enough to add?Marc RS 21:56, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Gaah. I signed up especially to correct the latter glaring error. Mars' atmosphere is 95% carbon dioxide, 3% nitrogen and the rest is argon, oxygen and methane; it's also pretty thin. Maybe fires like that are impossible but I'm sure the oxygen and methane will have contributed. Perhaps the author was thinking of poor lil' Mercury, which really doesn't have an atmosphere. Lady BlahDeBlah 22:41, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, a very insubstantial one at least. Can anyone tell me how to make edits to semi-protected articles? Apparently I can't do it even with an account. Marc RS 23:03, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * It's alright, I've got it. MarcRS 23:59, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

In "Father's Day" The reapers turned up due to Rose saving her father when somebody who was dead is now alive- surely this should be the case now for Yuri and Mia as they should have died but are now alive?
 * I have a suggestion for a plot hole error-


 * I don't think they always turn up, after all they could have not have needed to feed on them if they weren't "hungry" as it were. But we didn't see them again after they walked away from Adelaide's house. For all we know the reapers could have shown up but Yuri and Mia escaped and the reapers gave up looking for them. Marc RS 23:03, November 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah but in Fathers Day they didnt single out Pete Tyler in the end they just ate anybody who turned up so unless the reapers went straight for Yuri and Mia (which they didnt as you could see from the news story)- the place should be roaming with them- jeez earth does get it bad.


 * But as shown at the end of Father's Day, when they leave an area, all knowledge of them is forgotten and the other people killed are revived, so if it is true, as soon as the reapers leave they would be forgotten. Marc RS 23:52, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * In fathers day, the Reapers appear to excise the time travel paradox that Rose had gone back in her own timeline and saved her father. The situation was only remedied when Pete sacrificed himself and set his and Rose's timelines right. In this case, The Doctor had no direct connection to anyone, so was not crossing his own timeline. Hence no Reapers.

There is the separate question that he broke one of the Laws of Time the Time Lords had laid down. Presumably to help prevent chaos in time. (Now the Time Lords are gone, maybe this chaos is what leads to the End of Time. But that is purely speculation on my part).


 * Right. So the Doctor, realising he can't go through the POURING, SCARY WATER, decides to send the robot instead. The robot goes through the POURING, SCARY WATER, gets to the TARDIS, and (somehow) manages to get it back to the Doctor. They all get in, and go back to Earth.

So they all get out. Including the robot. The Doctor then has a nice big, sanctimonious rant. He then has a brief spell of psychosis, thinks he's going to die, and eventually hops back into the TARDIS and fucks off.

Leaving the robot on Earth.

The robot.

The robot that's drenched in the scary water they were trying to stop from reaching Earth.

Textbook mistake, Doctor. Textbook.


 * Or he has a towel inside the TARDIS. There must be a bathroom in there somewhere. Or an atmospheric vaccum cleaner. That's of course assuming that the harsh, dry Martian atmosphere didn't already evaporate all the water from it. Marc RS 23:03, November 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I'm imagining this, but Maggie Cain and Ed Gold, as well as Andy Stone (I believe) all get "killed" prior to Adelaide Brooke blowing up the base - Maggie and Ed are in the rocket when Ed destroys it, yet Maggie returns to the ice field, and Ed some how manages to make it back to the group when they are screaming. At the same time, Andy (and I think it's him, I'm not sure) gets "electrocuted" by the Doctor after he returns and prior to evacuating the survivors on the TARDIS, yet Andy again makes it back to the group as their appears to be the correct number of infected people. Is the continuity error, or have I been imagining this? -- Imperial Emperor - Talk · My home 13:33, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * The electrocution wasn't necessarily enough to kill Andy, and the others did have time to get away from the rocket before it blew up. Spreee 18:51, November 18, 2009 (UTC)Spreee

Why would the Dalek leave Adelaide alive when she was a child? The Doctor's reasoning was that the Dalek knew that her death was fixed so left her alone, but the Dalek's thought that they would be destroying everything in the Universe in that episode. Surely either the Dalek's subconsiously knew that they would fail (which is absurd) or the Doctor's reasoning is false. --Croasdale 17:36, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * I have a proposal for the Discontinuity section, but I am unable to amend the page myself
 * The Dalek would have been unlikely to exceed its function. It was there to subdue the humans so they could continue with their ultimate plan. To get a little further into it: natural instinct would have been to kill Adelaide or round her up, but at this point the Daleks are likely somewhat "time-sensitive". Sure, it and all of its Dalek friends are about to go destroy reality itself later. But right at that moment, it's not the mission for that particular Dalek. Destroying someone whose death it perceived was a fixed point might have disturbed the web of time, maybe even leading to the Daleks' ultimate plan being compromised. It could have taken the chance perhaps, and shot Adelaide. Or, it could have decided to just stick to its current mission and leave that one harmless child. It obviously chose the latter. Spreee 18:51, November 18, 2009 (UTC)Spreee


 * I also have a proposal for the Plot Hole/Discontinuity section. Brooke mentioned all the troublesome things, like oil shortages and all but not something as big as what happened in Torchwood: Children of Earth? I know lots of things happened that the humans write off, but that was something pretty big, it was supposed to be a big deal even then. I fear that they are also going to act like it never happened in The End of Time too.

News pages errors
The "first lightspeed ship" 'page' has a rather glaring error: the names of the team are those of Bowie Base One… 80.176.152.238 01:11, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Another interesting oddity with the news articles: not really an error, but the Doctor keeps commenting on Mia's young age of 27, even though the news articles state that Roman is 3 years younger than her. Why does the Doctor just ignore him? MarcRS 02:21, November 16, 2009 (UTC) Heres an error no-one thought of:
 * It seems that he simply feels greater empathy for her for some reason. Historically, the Doctor had tended to seem more connected with (protective of?) females. Or, perhaps it's just that her age struck him at that moment while the seeming inevitability of their impending death was sinking in. Spreee 18:51, November 18, 2009 (UTC)Spreee

It is most indefinitely that the events of Doomsday and The Stolen Earth/Journey's End are in flux (as Van Staten doesn;t have a name for them). If Adelaide was inspired by a Dalek evemt which was in flux, doesn't that mean she wasn't really intended to be the first woman on mars, and also if the Doctor knew that Adelaide was inspired by a Dalek in 2009, doesn't that mean he knew of the events of The Stolen Earth/Journey's End before they happened?
 * The Discontinuity sections on this and other pages are becoming far too long, complex, and in many instances, fatuous. A lot of what is proposed as 'discontinuities' are really subjective judgements and speculations which could be resolved with a little thought. Also, when did thee practice start of answering the discontinuities in italics? If the discontinuities can be adequately answered, then they should be removed, with the explanations given in the editorial note or on the talk page.There is a user going around reducing the discontinuities to production discontinuities, and placing other genuine points in the 'Story notes', 'References', and 'Continuity' sections. And a good job, too.--Exterminateallhumans 01:24, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Four knocks
So, just asking, they never had the seen from the commercial where the Doctor says that he doesn't here anyone knocking, then four loud knocks ring out? It's not mentioned in the plot section...Papayaking 01:27, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

If its the part I think you are refering to, he only knocks three times. MarcRS 01:55, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Sonic Screwdriver
It works on the wooden door. Could we note this down somewhere? Plus it could represent the doctors statement that he can do anything now...

Not really. It is a SONIC screwdriver after all, and probably acted on the metal in the locks, if not vibrating the door open. I seem to remember that the first appearance of the sonic screwdriver was in Patrick Troughton's era, where he loosened some screws with it.

Presumably The Doctor has added a lot of other functions to it over the years, to enable it do other things. Including storing River Song's mind.
 * Also, remember that door is in the year 2059. It's not difficult to imagine that even standard door locks will have some electronic component in 50 years which the sonic can scramble. Rob T Firefly 04:43, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Steffi Ehrlich
Goof: there are 3 different spellings of her name in the internet article about her death: Ehrlich (on Top), Enrlich (on the right side), Enrilich (under her photo). Just for the records: the message of her kids also has an notable english accent.

Story Note
This is the final christmas the 10th doctor sees and it is the first one that has real snow in all the times he's wished for it - 121.44.179.181 13:27, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not Christmas, it's 21 November. Rob T Firefly 08:26, November 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, there was actual snow on Christmas in The Next Doctor. Spreee 18:55, November 18, 2009 (UTC)Spreee

Robot Infected!
Ok I'm not sure if im the only one to notice this, but gadget (the robot) went through the water right? So gadget has probably brought back the virus to earth. The waters might return?
 * See the discussion above. Given the Martian atmosphere and the speed he was moving at, he was most likely already completely dry by the time he arrived at the TARDIS. Spreee 18:58, November 18, 2009 (UTC)Spreee

David Bowie Reference
not sure if anyone else picked this up, but couldn't "Bowie" Base One be a reference to David Bowie's "Life on Mars" ? Inundated 01:12, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah! And Life on Mars was the name of the T.V. program John Simm (a.k.a. the Master) starred in! That's got to be a reference. -- Will101 17:45, January 15, 2010 (UTC)