Forum:The Cybus Cybermen vs Mondas Cybermen Debate in "the Blood of the Cybermen"

Why are all the articles written as if it's confirmed that the Cybermen in TBOTC are Mondas Cybermen? It is perfectly reasonable that the Cybus Cybermen changed their logo, considering that it was a commercial logo...especially when they said that Amy would begin a new race of Cybermen...

There's a Cyberlord and they act like Cybus Cybermen...moreover, why would the Mondasian Cybermen freeze or hibernate when they are made specifically to operate in an extremely cold environment?--203.168.176.42 07:45, July 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes but the Cybus Cybermen, don't have spaceships, the Cybus Cybermen don't have cybermats, The Cybus Cybermen aren't thousands of years old ect


 * And another thing if you watch any of the Mondasian Cybermen stories you will see that they act the same.


 * Also Hybernation is the Mondasian Cybermens thing, the Cybus Cybermen don't do that but the Mondasian do in Toom of the Cybermen, The Wheel in Space, The Invasion, Earthshock and Attack of the Cybermen.


 * If you look there is more evidence that they are Mondasian than Cybus. General MGD 109


 * Most importantly: why are the Cybusmen in our universe in the first place? They're all trapped in the void. And don't say they're in our universe because they were in the Pandorica Opens. Presumably the cracks and the decaying universe allowed them to get out of the void. After the Big Bang, they will once again be trapped. My theory: Presumably there is a Mondas, and therefor Mondasian cybermen in Pete's World. John Lumic based the design for his cybermen on plans of these Mondasian Cybermen. He probably got the designs from International Electromatics, the company from the invasion (as he was seen using vans with the IE logo, I presume he bought the company). It would be too much of a coincidence that the Cybusmen were so much like our cybermen. TemporalSpleen 11:33, July 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but that is total speculation and is in no way helpful to the discussion. They were in "The Next Doctor" after being trapped in the void, so it is perfectly reasonably that they would be here too.


 * And there is not more evidence that they are Mondasian Cybermen than Cybus Cybermen. The Cybus ones do have spaceships, as proven in The Pandorica Opens when River specifically says Cyberships. We don't know if the Cybus ones have Cybermats and is speculative to say. The can easily be thousands of years old... they were at the Pandorica implying they can time travel. The only thing that says Mondasion (and is still speculative to say that the Cybus ones don't hibernate). As a friend of mine once said, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... it's most probably a duck. They walk, look and speak like the Cybus Cybermen, they are most probably them. --The Thirteenth Doctor 13:26, July 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * More speculation, but I think there will be at least a two-parter next season with the Cybermen in, and I reckon there will be another remaking of the Cybermen, possibly the Mondasians finding a Cybus Cyberman and stealing their designs, so that the Mondasians will look like the Cybus and then the Cybus will be removed completely. 82.33.57.244 13:31, July 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * To General MGD..the thing is...there is no evidence at all that they all Mondasian...and all the bloody articles say they are as if it's confirmed...


 * The Cybus Cybermen do have ships...CyberKing is a ship...the Cybership in the Pandorica Opens is probably theirs


 * The Mondasian Cybermen's cybermats doesn't do anything remotely similar to these cybermats....and don't you think a simple slug-bot is something that would be considered elementary to these advanced races?


 * There's a bloody Cyberlord, Mondasians have no Cyberlord...


 * Everything is speculative, so the articles should not call them Cybus nor Mondasian...this is just plain wrong...


 * For TemporalSpleen, your complete speculative theory is just too out-there...if you have to be that speculative, don't you think it makes much more sense that Cybus Cybermen were the design Mondasian Cybermen based on since Cybus Cybermen can appear anywhere and anytime in our Universe?


 * If you have to propose completely unsupported things, you may as well just say that these Cybermen are the ones that were in the Next Doctor, but was never there due to the retconning, and ended up much earlier on Earth...At least it explains the Cyberlord...203.168.176.42 18:17, July 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Purely out of interest, can we have a vote?


 * Those in favour of these Cybermen being the Cybus Cybermen:


 * Those in favour of these Cybermen being the Mondas Cybermen:
 * Treacleman


 * Treacleman 19:34 July 11, 2010


 * I think its the Cybusmen it would be pretty anti climactic to bring the original cybermen back in a computor game looking identical to the cybusmen, except for a logo [which I have to say I wouldn't even have noticed if it wasn't pointed out] with the doctor not even mentioning them as being his original adversary's who have been away for years. I think that they will bring the cybermen [Mondasian] back to meet the cybusmen and have the two merge, as they will get to sell more toys that way, they can sell a toy of the original Mondasian Cybermen [who will look different] and of the new super merged Cybermen. Remember the whole reason they have new Daleks is to sell toys for BBC worldwide because the old Dalek toys having been around for years weren't selling as well so they changed them to have new toys they will probably want to do that for the Cybermen, as the cyber toys have been around for a while. Winehousefan: 23:35, July 11, 2010 [UTC]


 * i'm not going to argue because i don't understand why people like the Cybusmen. I am merely going to present the facts i am aware of and my opinion. Firstly, these cybermenare hibernating in tombs in the ice. thats how the mondasians recharged. Second, that stupid cyberlord means nothing. Its perfectly acceptable that rather than use the old design, to which new fans may not be fond of after the cybusmen, they used the new design instead. Also, the chest logo is modified version of the Telos logo. Why would the cybusmen change anything about the way they look. They are more robotic than the mondasians - hell the only thing stopping us calling them robots is the brain. Cybermen wouldn't change their logo, they have no concept of such things. Third, many people seem to assume the cybermen have escaped the void, have the ability to time travel and have developed fleets. In the next doctor it was because of that machine in the basement (the name escapes me), in the pandorica opens it was the cracks. Next, how on earth did the cybusmen develop a fleet (lets not even get into why). their only concern was humanity so why would they develop spaceships. As for time travel, not even the mondasians had that and they were around longer than 4 years. their timeline is much larger. The fact of the matter is, in the next doctor no explanation was given as to how and when the cyber king was developed and how the doctor knew about it. The mondasians had fleets because they were at war constantly and also travelling constantly. They had the time to develop ships. and besides. we encountered them at fairly advanced points in earths future. The Cybusmen were discovered in the year 2006 on pete's world, were seen again later that year around 2-3 months later (it is logical to assume parallel earth is on the same time line as us and those dimension jumps don't travel in time). after doomsday, the cybusmen were locked in the void. so please tell me how a spaceship of the cybusmen that is NOT a cyberking (lol cyberking) ended up in the arctic in earth's future. at no point in the game's narrative does the doctor mention anything about it falling through dimensions.Mr Hat And Clogs 13:55, July 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * The Cybermen would have no reason to change to look like the Cybus ones. They Cybus ones may change their logo to save on metal usage. The Cybus Cybermen did have ships. They were noted to have Cyberships and appeared in The Pandorica Opens. This also goes along with the fact that they have obviously found some way to travel in time. In The Next Doctor, they've escaped the void and travelled in time. Whose to say they haven't done so again, developed time travel, and then went to Earth's future? And they would have ships in the future, since the human race is spread across several gallexies. Plus, the Cybermen that went to the preview in Glasgow were Cybus Cybermen. --The Thirteenth Doctor 14:12, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * yes but there is still no on screen explanation as to the creation of the cyberking, fleet or their gaining the ability to time travel. what we assume is us merely connecting dots to try and let it make sense. but it doesn't. the cybusmen, being more robotic than their mondasian counterparts, were highly efficient and focused only on conversion. they would have no need for space ships and time travel. you have to look at it from the point that even if they worked 24/7, which they didn't because they were building an army to convert out earth, there is no logical time period for them to develop a fleet, or a giant robot. RotC and age of steel would have been around end of april, with army of ghosts and doomsday being mid to late june. with both stories being set in present day, 2 months is not enough time to build a foot army and a space fleet. i doubt a space fleet was on their to do list in the 2 months after their creation.Mr Hat And Clogs 14:19, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * yes but there is still no on screen explanation as to the creation of the cyberking, fleet or their gaining the ability to time travel. what we assume is us merely connecting dots to try and let it make sense. but it doesn't. the cybusmen, being more robotic than their mondasian counterparts, were highly efficient and focused only on conversion. they would have no need for space ships and time travel. you have to look at it from the point that even if they worked 24/7, which they didn't because they were building an army to convert out earth, there is no logical time period for them to develop a fleet, or a giant robot. RotC and age of steel would have been around end of april, with army of ghosts and doomsday being mid to late june. with both stories being set in present day, 2 months is not enough time to build a foot army and a space fleet. i doubt a space fleet was on their to do list in the 2 months after their creation.Mr Hat And Clogs 14:19, July 13, 2010 (UTC)