Howling:River's Timeline in Light of TATM

It was pointed out on another board that The Angels Take Manhattan doesn't appear to properly follow the sequence of River moving backwards relative to the Doctor's timeline, as she has been pardoned and is Professor Song. I don't have the expertise to speak to this myself (at least, not without a bit more research), but I'd love to hear what others think. AthertonX ☎  21:43, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'd have to agree, Ath. Her first post-Library adventure was the Byzantium, and this is definitely set after that in her timeline, after her pardon and professorship. So, in theory, she is at the point in her timeline where the Doctor's memories of her should be regressing. Yet, this is the first time we see them together as a married couple, and they end by setting out together for some unspecified period of time. Very possibly they've had off-camera adventures together before this, when he knew less and she knew more, and I'd be willing to be that some of her undated appearances (end of Demons Run) probably are from later in her timeline... Still, at the Byzantium, their married life seemed to be in the past, and their first/last kiss was while she was still in jail, so what's up with having their first on-camera married journeys being 'after' her last kiss? Tough holiday. Wibbly-Wobbly ☎  22:39, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

The statement of River's timeline moving backwards relative to the Doctor's timeline is totally wrong. If it was true, there would be no need for the little tardis blue book the River has to keep track of their adventures. The fact is River and the Doctor's timelines cross randomly without any specific order. To be more specific, the last time River meets the doctor is the first time he meets her (Silence in the Library), however the first time she meets him is not the last time he meets her (Let's kill Hitler). Also, in last season's finale, when River visits Amy after she supposedly killed the doctor, she states that she just met them on the Byzantium. Therefore, there is no specific chronological order for their meetings, hence the need for the blue book to keep track of what adventures each of them has experienced.--62.84.91.6talk to me 22:43, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

I also agree. It's been a perennial topic on past threads. The back-to-front timelines interpretation is completely incompatible with the diary-sync interpretation. I've always seen the 'back-to-front' timelines issue as more of a general trend in their meetings that River has noticed, which leads to her fear about the Doctor forgetting her. But the end of Day of the Moon seemed to establish a literal reverse order, because River 'knew' that his first kiss would have to be her last. The problem now is that she was in jail then, and is out now (therefore forward on her timeline from the 'last' kiss) yet they are both in the TARDIS, married, and setting out to travel together. We're no longer just quibbling about interpretations, this seems to violate established events in her life. Their life together seems to be just beginning at a point in her timeline after it was supposed to have tragically ended. Anyway, I am happier with us in the diary-sync version, so it's more an observation than a complaint. Wibbly-Wobbly ☎  23:33, September 30, 2012 (UTC)

River was convinced the first kiss in the Doctor's timeline was the last in hers but it's entirely possible she got a pleasant surprise & found out she'd been wrong about that. As has repeatedly been said by those paying attention (& by Moffat), the "going in opposite directions" thing is at most a general trend. It may not even be that. If you list the numbers 1 to 10,000 in genuinely random order, you're very likely to have parts of the list looking as if they follow a pattern. The "going in opposite directions" thing could be the same. We look for patterns & see them even when they're not really there. (I'm usually 89 but I'm 2, just now.) --2.96.17.102talk to me 23:49, September 30, 2012 (UTC)