User talk:BananaClownMan

'''Welcome to the Thanks for your edits! We hope you'll keep on editing with us. This is a great time to have joined us, because now you can play the Game of Rassilon with us and win cool stuff! Well, okay, badges. That have no monetary value. And that largely only you can see. But still: they're cool!

We've got a couple of important quirks for a Wikia wiki, so let's get them out of the way first. British English, please We generally use British English round these parts, so if you're American, please be sure you set your spell checker to BrEng, and take a gander at our spelling cheat card. Spoilers aren't cool We have a strict definition of "spoiler" that you may find a bit unusual. Basically, a spoiler, to us, is anything that comes from a story which has not been released yet. So, even if you've got some info from a BBC press release or official trailer, it basically can't be referenced here. In other words, you gotta wait until the episode has finished its premiere broadcast to start editing about its contents. Please check the spoiler policy for more details. Other useful stuff Aside from those two things, we also have some pages that you should probably read when you get a chance, like:
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Thanks for becoming a member of the TARDIS crew! If you have any questions, see the Help pages, add a question to one of the Forums or ask on my talk page. Shambala108 ☎  16:34, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Delete tags
Please do not ever remove a delete tag from a page. Doing so could be interpreted as vandalism. Pages that are proposed for deletion require discussion. Please read Tardis:Deletion policy and Tardis:Vandalism policy. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  14:34, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I though the matter had been settled when a category for heroic sacrificed had been made. BananaClownMan ☎  19:15, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

I can't edit the category Individuals exterminated by the Daleks for some reason. I want to put it in the Individuals by cause of death category but the wiki won't let me.Slughorn42 ☎  20:15, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

Death in science fantasy
Heya :) I'm sorry to have to do this to you since you've only just joined us, but I really have to delete all of your work categorising people by type of death. The reason is that these categories can be easily abused because they're ambiguous. In science fantasy like Doctor Who, it's often difficult to assess whether someone was really killed by another entity or not. More to the point, if they come back to life, did they, in point of practical fact, ever die in the first place?

To take but one example, let's examine Rory and Amy at the end of The Angels Take Manhattan. They ostensibly jumped off a roof, killed themselves, collapsed a reality — and then promptly came back to life. So did they commit suicide, or did they merely do the thing necessary to defeat the Weeping Angels? Moreover, did they commit suicide of any kind or were they effectively killed by the advancing Weeping Angels — pushed off the roof cause there was no other rational action to take? In other words, can their action be interpreted as self-preservation, rather than an irrational act of suicide?

See, it gets very, very complicated in science fantasy to ascribe with any certainty a) whether someone has died at all or b) who exactly killed them. And that's just normal science fantasy. With Doctor Who you've got the complicating factor of whether an incarnation of a Time Lord actually dies (as described by Ten), or whether it's more of a metamorphosis (as described by Two). And then there's Jack Harkness who is immortal and thus doesn't die. Yet some people describe him as dying multiple times and resurrecting himself.

It's all very tricky stuff which various fans will interpret differently. Thus, T:CAT NAME clearly applies to all these "individuals by type of death" categories. They simply are going to invite dispute, and so they're now going to be deleted.

Please don't let this discourage you from editing with us. I've had tons of my own edits deleted or overridden as have most editors who've been here for any length of time. And please don't think that we're in any way monitoring your work and looking for a way to delete it. We absolutely need you to stick around and help us! We've just found over the course the decade we've been open that some types of category tend to lead toward dispute, and that it's therefore important to choose category topics that don't obviously admit of multiple interpretations. 15:27: Fri 13 Jun 2014

Incarnations of the Doctor
Please note that, per Thread:145487, we do not pipe switch incarnations of the Doctor in the way you did at Christopher Eccleston. Please read the forum page so you can see how we are dealing with incarnations on this wiki. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  15:56, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

Block
You have been blocked for an hour so I can clean up your recent edits. When I have done so, I will explain the block and then unblock you. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  16:34, June 16, 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok, the block has been lifted. Leave a message here if for some reason you are still unable to edit. Shambala108 ☎  16:40, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

Companions
Please do not remove companion categories for established articles. If the community decides they are companions, then one individual user is not allowed to remove them. If you think they do not deserve companion status, bring it up on the individual article talk pages. You are a new user here, and may not be aware that users can't just change certain things without community consensus. Please take the time to read Tardis:Discussion policy and Tardis:You are bound by current policy, as I believe these will help you understand how we deal with these kinds of situations. I will unblock you after I post this. Shambala108 ☎  16:39, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

My sincerest apologies, I merely believed that I was correcting a mistake. I mean, the Arwell family isn't even listed as companions of the episode page, and Dorium didn't even travel with the Doctor once, let alone in multiple episodes.BananaClownMan ☎  08:37, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Recent edits
Hi. Please do not change the infobox name in articles. The infobox name must always match the article name (minus the dab term, if any),

In addition, please do not move pages. If you feel a page needs renaming, you can add a tag to it so there can be discussion. Then if discussion agrees, an admin can move it. There was no good reason for you to move "The War Chief" to "War Chief", as it's a long-established page. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  13:21, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

Real world people categories
Hi! Your recent category additions, "Real world people encountered by the Doctor" and its subcategories, will most likely be deleted when the admins who have bots can get around to it. I wanted to let you know what the problems were so you understand why they aren't appropriate for the wiki.

First of all, you have to understand the distinction made on this wiki between in-universe and out-of-universe. In-universe applies to the story elements of characters, objects, organizations, etc. that are encountered in the stories. Out-of-universe applies to the production of the stories, including cast, crew, story plots, etc. We don't ever mix in universe categories with out of universe categories.

The problem with your categories is that, from the DWU perspective (that is, the in universe perspective), almost all of the people the Doctor encounters are "real world people". The category proposes to catalogue the people the Doctor meets from our real world, but out of universe categories are never to be applied to in universe pages.

Another problem is that your categories have been placed inside the category Real world people, which is an out of universe category, where we gather together all the people that have worked on DW and its spinoffs.

There are a few pages that can explain in detail the distinctions, which can often be hard for a new user to grasp. Please take a look at Tardis:Point of view, Tardis:In-universe perspective and Tardis:Out-of-universe perspective. In addition, the descriptions at Category:Real world people and Category:People from the real world can explain the distinction much better than I can.

In the future, to save yourself some hard work, if you have a major category suggestion, you might want to run it by an admin to see if it's appropriate for the wiki.

Thanks! Shambala108 ☎  15:21, June 24, 2014 (UTC)

User page
Hi! I have removed some information from your user page as it violated our spoiler policy. Please note that user pages are not exempt from the policy. Please carefully read Tardis:Spoiler policy, as we take it very seriously on this wiki. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  14:28, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, sorry. I just assumed it would be okay since, logically,  will be my first Twelfth Doctor story when it airs in 5 weeks.BananaClownMan ☎  14:48, July 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Please, please, please read the policy. Even mentioning the title on this talk page is a violation. Shambala108 ☎  15:30, July 21, 2014 (UTC)

Starting a forum post
Hi! To start a forum post, you just head to the board you want located at Special:Forum. In your specific example, you would go to Board:The Panopticon. Near the top of that page, look for "Start a discussion". When you click on that, you will get a question "What do you want to talk about?" — that is for your forum title. The box below, that says "post a new message to the The Panopticon board", is for your message itself. Please note that you do not have to sign your name in the forums, as it will automatically be done for you. Shambala108 ☎  23:39, December 19, 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you.BananaClownMan ☎  23:44, December 19, 2014 (UTC)

Category rules
Please ensure that any categories you add to pages are substantiated in the main text. For example, you must add a note to Michael Wisher explaining why the page carries Actors who have voiced for the Doctor. Categories are not a substitute for content. Thanks-- 00:56, December 20, 2014 (UTC)

Okay. BananaClownMan ☎  09:32, December 20, 2014 (UTC)

Category structure
I reverted your edits on the Doctor actor pages and I thought I should give a full explanation as to why. Tardis:Category tree details the basic structure to categories on this wiki. The four overarching categories of articles are in-universe, real world, non-DWU, and wiki administration. So, "articles that are in one of these four categories should not go into another of them." Matt Smith is a real world article, so it can't be put in Category:Look alikes of the Doctor, which is in-universe. Category:Doctor Who actors that exist in the DWU is an edge case. It makes more sense for these articles to be primarily real world, so we stick to real world categories. I hope that makes sense. If you have any questions, feel free to ask on my talk page.  P&amp;P  talk   contribs  03:35, December 21, 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually, if you have any questions about categories, it's best to ask an admin. CzechOut is the person who best understands the category structure on this wiki. Shambala108 ☎  03:59, December 21, 2014 (UTC)

Infobox images
Hi! It is common practice on this wiki, when wanting to change infobox images for popular pages like the Doctor and his companions, to run the proposed images by the community first, via the article's talk page. This is done for two main reasons:


 * Often a user's desired image falls short of our infobox image policies. These policies are spelled out at Tardis:Guide to images.
 * For really popular pages, merely changing the image without community consensus often leads to edit wars, with users going back and forth removing each others' images.

Therefore, if you want to change the infobox images at Third Doctor, Fourth Doctor, or indeed any of these popular pages, read the policy above to make sure you understand the guidelines, then post the image on the article's talk page, allowing for discussion. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  20:45, January 2, 2015 (UTC)


 * Please leave a message on my talk page stating that you have read the above message. Since I posted it, you have ignored it twice, at Seventh Doctor and Eighth Doctor. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you missed my message, so please get in touch with me. Shambala108 ☎  18:33, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I did in fact miss this, I was getting junk mail from Flash/Arrow wiki and must have deleted the update when I clicked on the "all wikis" section of the "mark read" button.BananaClownMan ☎  18:35, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

Spoiler policy
Hiya. I just noticed that back in December, you made an edit to Roz Forrester that violated the spoiler policy. I realize this is a bit late, but we take the spoiler policy really seriously, and I see that you've been warned before, so I want to make this very clear: any information from an unreleased story is a spoiler and disallowed. Titles, actors, anything.  P&amp;P  talk   contribs  06:05, February 19, 2015 (UTC)


 * User:Shambala108 has pointed out to me that I might be coming across as if I'm an admin. To be clear, I'm not an admin. I'm just an enthusiastic editor, and I apologize for any confusion. Thanks.  P&amp;P  talk   contribs  17:35, February 19, 2015 (UTC)

Trenzalore
No, the 'fan speculation' is that the Trenzalore tomb is alternate. Never was such a thing said in the show. Not. Once. The Great Intelligence was quite clear on it, the Doctor was clear on it, and all production chatter about the episode was clear on it. The Doctor dies on Trenzalore. It's not an alternate timeline.

Messages on your talk page
Hi! I need to point out that you are never to remove messages from others on your talk page (unless they are vandalism, which Meganerd18's message is not). To do so is a violation of Tardis:Vandalism policy. If you feel that a user has violated Tardis:No personal attacks, you can talk to an admin, but don't remove the message.

Regarding the alternate timeline/Tenzalore stuff, you might be interested in reading comments made on Thread:153800. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  15:00, February 19, 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. Also, Thread:153800 hasn't convinced me the Trenzalore thing is still to come.BananaClownMan ☎  16:31, February 19, 2015 (UTC)

Tenth Doctor
I have been trying to improve the Tenth Doctor article and make it more accurate to what we see of him, such as his arrogance being a product of anger and superiority and you seem to have a problem with me noting that in the article. Why? The Fox King (talk) 14:31, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

You have continually removed a paragraph about his breaking points in the 2009 specials, his anger is covered above the paragraph about his flaws, and your examples of strength are open to interpretation; Lucius Petrus Dextrus's stone arm might have been fragile from the petrification process and the Heavenly Host he fought was damaged and might not have been at full strength.BananaClownMan ☎  14:49, March 22, 2015 (UTC)


 * BananaClownMan, please in the future address your replies to the user's talk page, so they will receive a notification that you've answered them. This is standard wiki practice built into the system. The above user may never see your reply since you left it on your page. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  15:48, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

Block
You have been blocked for one month for violating Tardis:No personal attacks. Your behavior to a relatively new user at Tenth Doctor is decidedly unwelcoming. I understand that you put a lot of work into cleaning up the Doctor pages, but I've noticed that you tend to undo many edits to those pages. Any wiki editor knows their work may be changed.

After seeing today's almost-edit-war at Tenth Doctor, I intended to speak to you on your user page about your tendency to undo others' work, but your last edit at the page left the following edit summary: " Any further examples of removal or poor use of grammer will have consequences)". This sounds like a direct threat, and you do not even have any abilities or powers to enforce any such consequences.

Your block will last one month, and that's being extremely generous. Most of the time, I and other admins would block you permanently, but I take some responsibility in not addressing this issue with you earlier. Your block will expire in one month. Shambala108 ☎  15:45, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate the generosity, and apologies for my arrogance; I understand that just cause I put so much work into the pages does not give me ownership of them now. Maybe I rushed back to the wiki too soon, still full of myself for my "victory lap" and feeling threatened when someone else made an edit. I think this is a wake up call to my "mortality", for lack of a better term, and that I need an enforced vacation to bring down my ego. Thank you for helping me see that.BananaClownMan ☎  16:28, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

Re-Apology
All is forgiven, although I don't see how I was writing anything in bad grammar as it was all true. I've re-written it more all-anticipating though now. The Fox King (talk) 07:08, April 23, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice and I have now re-edited the article and put the citations next to the information they correspond with. The Fox King (talk) 00:23, April 24, 2015 (UTC)

Update templates
You might want to read the text at. Basically, is for marking whole pages as in need of additions and goes at the top, while  marks individual sections as in need of additions. The latter might be more appropriate for what you're trying to do on the Doctor articles.  P&amp;P  talk   contribs  10:57, April 25, 2015 (UTC)

Twelfth Doctor
Please explain the following edit summary that you posted at Twelfth Doctor:


 * "(http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/why-i-love-the-twelfth-doctor-73011.htm Updated with new information)"

Are you trying to cite an outside source for in-universe information? Shambala108 ☎  16:21, April 25, 2015 (UTC)


 * Please stop citing non-valid sources in your edit summaries. I know you're not citing them in the article, but new users might see your edit summaries and think the sources are valid and can be used within the articles. If you must cite them, please do so with an explanation on the article talk page, not in your edit summaries. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  19:21, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

Placement of Titan 12th comics
So just to keep from starting a big dumb edit war, how long should we keep piling the Titan Twelfth Doctor stories between Caretaker and Kill the Moon? I've been reading them and none have ever explicitly stated where they take place, the current placement started because of the reference of Skovok Blitzer in Terrorformer. Meanwhile the DWA and DWM stories are currently piling up in the post-Last Christmas pile. Should their placement be considered too? --TARDIS2468 ☎  12:36, July 11, 2015 (UTC)

Seventh Doctor
Please leave a response to Shambala108's request on the Seventh Doctor Talk Page. RogerAckroydLives ☎  03:33, July 25, 2015 (UTC)

Please leave a response to User:RogerAckroydLives's proposition on the Seventh Doctor Talk Page. The matter has been brought up with the community and the limited response has been entirely in my favour. Please consider my offer, and end this debate. RogerAckroydLives ☎  19:26, July 30, 2015 (UTC)

Please refrain from being insulting and needlessly harsh. The onus was on you to respond. I have no control over your personal life, and no relation with it. Nothing I have done has been with any intention to exacerbate your personal problems, and, in all honesty, nothing truly could have done so. Please maintain your maturity when conversing with others. RogerAckroydLives ☎  11:36, July 31, 2015 (UTC)

Edits at First Doctor
Hey :) I wanted to leave you a note to explain why I had to revert your recent edits at First Doctor. The main matter at issue was your simplification of references to support the claim that the Doctor was a genuine father/grandfather.  While you did make the text somewhat simpler to read, you took away the reader's ability to judge for herself which of the two claims — we'll call them the television claim (genuine parent) and the Lungbarrow claim (not genuine parent) — has the greater support in Doctor Who fiction.  Having a large number of references for the television claim is correct, because that's generally how the legend goes.  It helps readers tremendously to know that it receives the far greater support, because that's the case in the body of all Doctor Who fiction.  The Lungbarrow claim is barely referenced outside of that one book, and it's fair to present as a minority view.

As my time is short, it's possible that I reverted more than your edits on this particular point within the article. If I did, I'm sorry about that, and it wasn't what I intended. But please do retain the imbalanced references present on the parenthood point as you continue to edit the article.

Thanks so much for all your work around here! 22:54: Tue 18 Aug 2015

Re: The Brink of Death
Sure! I'd be happy to :D However, I'm a bit busy at the moment and have only had time to view parts of each (In total, they amount to a whopping 5 or 6 hours, behind the scenes included), so I can only tackle some of the last audio for now, and will put a stub for the other three. That's why I held off, but since you asked, I bet I can do a little bit of sprucing up! --Thunderush ☎  15:54, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Requests to other users
Hi! While I completely understand your desire to "complete" the various Doctor pages, I need to tell you to refrain from asking other users to fill in missing sections. We are all busy with our lives, and have priorities of what we want to do on the wiki. In addition, both users that you have asked, User:OttselSpy25 and User:Thunderush, have been around on this wiki for a while, and they are both well aware of what needs to be done. It is their choice whether they want to contribute in certain ways or not, without other users or even admins asking them to do it. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎  18:20, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Titan Back-up Comics
Hey, I just wanted to tell you that we are currently sending down a final vote on the Titan back-up comics down at Thread:177099. You seemed to have a pretty strong opinion on the issue, so I just wanted to make sure that you knew that the vote was happening. The polls currently tally to three votes for the back-up strips being valid and four for them being invalid. All votes have gone towards making the WeLoveTITANS comics invalid. If you want a say in the matter, there is a week and three days left on voting. Sorry for the bother! :-) OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 21:26, September 2, 2015 (UTC)

Ninth Doctor
Please revert your correction of User:Skittles the hog's reversion of your edit. The Ninth Doctor article is absolutely not told from the point of view of the Ninth Doctor. As stated at Tardis:In-universe perspective, all in-universe articles are written from a neutral perspective. Please see the policy page in question. Shambala108 ☎  14:42, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

Undo function
Hi! At this point in your editing, I have to tell you to stop using the "undo" function when other people edit the Doctor/Master pages or other pages you've worked on. As you've acknowledged, you do not own these pages, and a basic tenet of wiki editing is that our work can be undone/changed at any time.

Your use of the "undo" function has alienated other users (there has been at least one vocal complaint), and at times, in your attempts to undo what you think is wrong, you are also undoing corrections of policy violations.

Another issue is the placement of stories on these character pages. Please do not get so strict about the timeline of stories. In the DWU, there is just so much contradiction and lack of information that any timeline info we come up with is going to involve speculation. That is why we moved timelines out of the main namespace and into the theories namespace.

Continue to edit, but if you do see a need to remove part of another user's edit, you must leave an edit summary explaining why. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  00:13, September 25, 2015 (UTC)

Masters
Hey, I noticed that you did some cleanup work at The Master, and while it mostly looks great there are a couple issues. For one, deciding concretely when the Master was captured without any info to suggest it is pure speculation. Your placement on Simm kinda works, as it leaves it up to the reader to decide when the capture happens, but your direct placement of the Roberts' section of while he's changing is pure speculation. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 22:44, October 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, we can't place the info on them being captured by the Sild on every incarnation and alternate timeline unless the story explicitly references them clearly. So Simm is cool I think, and maybe a few others (I'd have to check) but putting them on every novel and audio Master is simply speculation. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 22:47, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

But "all incarnations" within one story does not qualify what the novel takes as that to mean. In the same way that The Gift can not qualify Doctors 9-12. It also doesn't help that qualifications for seperations between incarnations is unclear. Some think Delgado, Pratt, Beavers, Ainley, Beavers in the Seventh Doctor audios, and Beavers in the post-TV movie audios are all the same incarnation. We don't know what the book or the Sild qualified as "the incarnations of the Master." The only Masters that should be added are those included or described in the book. Also it needs to include how they (as I presume they do) get back to their own times.

Also we need to cut down on the starting a sentence with one story before cutting into an unrelated one. It incorrectly suggests a correlation between the two stories, and is blatant laziness, trying to not actually write a complete description of the story and instead piggy backing on another.

On the topic of the "drezz for the occasion" issue, while it makes sense to boil it down to a fine point in the story where he was captured, it could also just be that that the authors didn't know or care that the Bruce body has not been brought back in any sources. Keep in mind that the story claims that the band spent decades practicing -- that doesn't make any sense with the TV movie's claim that Bruce's body has hours left. Instead of making jumps in logic, it's better to put it in the Bruce section and to leave it up to the reader to decide. If that seems bulky, then it will indeed need to be consider putting it in the "After the Eye of Harmony" section. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 23:27, October 2, 2015 (UTC)

Moving pages
Hi! Please note that per Thread:128198, only admins are permitted to move pages. Please see the forum post for reasons and instructions. Shambala108 ☎  14:20, October 4, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I get it, but you left behind a redirect for each move which I have to delete, but I can't until I change all the links. That's why only admins move pages, because non-admins can't delete the redirects and usually don't bother to change the links. Shambala108 ☎  14:35, October 4, 2015 (UTC)

Re: undo instructions
I hate to have to do this, but I'm blocking you for a week. I've told you to stop using the undo function to revert another user's good faith edits, and that if you had to use it, to leave an edit summary. You and User:RogerAckroydLives cannot keep undoing each other's edits. It has to stop and this is the only way I can get through to you. Shambala108 ☎  21:35, October 13, 2015 (UTC)

Edit summary
Please don't use the edit summaries to form a conversation or a lengthy speech. Edit summaries are for short explanations of one's edit, not a chat forum. Thanks. --DCLM ☎  11:11, October 23, 2015 (UTC)

Reversions
Please stop reverting my edits. Even if you do not accept my rationale, you are consistently removing far more information that simply that which you disagree upon. RogerAckroydLives ☎  11:37, October 23, 2015 (UTC)
 * Please don't start an edit war. Contact an admin or solve it another way. --DCLM ☎  11:41, October 23, 2015 (UTC)