Forum:Deleted Scenes and Rule 4 By Proxy

Introduction
"Oh, Davros, I am far more than just another Time Lord."

- Seventh Doctor, thing he never said.

Many moons ago, we codified into T:VS the concept of "Rule 4 By Proxy." The rule, relatively new compared to others, states that even when a story's intention of being in the Doctor Who universe is dubious or disputed, having a future story reference these events is enough to bring a story out of the INVALID section of the website. So, for instance, PROSE: Storm in a Tikka is a sequel to TV: Dimensions in Time and a prequel to TV: Search Out Space, so we now consider all three stories valid.

Since then, we have had numerous interesting discussions about the lengths that this rule goes to, how small or big a reference has to be to apply, and so on. Well, today we're here to discuss perhaps one of the most controversial topics.

Since 2008, we have had a thoroughly-followed rule that Deleted scenes can not be valid on the site. This dates back to Forum:Are deleted scenes canon?, where it was ultimately judged that as deleted scenes were removed from the final product, they were not intended to be canon.

Oh, sorry.

-it was ultimately judged that as deleted scenes were removed from the final product, they were not intended to be set inside the Doctor Who Universe. Additionally, User:Tangerineduel argued, and then ruled, that deleted scenes should not be considered valid unless they are featured in an extended "special edition" of an episode.

Now, surprisingly, I am not here to unravel this argument, and although I do disagree with the Admins of Old about topics like What defines something being a deleted scene and Do reconstructions of unfinished material count as them being completed, I generally do not think we should widely validate every deleted scene included on a DVD or VHS.

Instead, today's topic is how we deal with things we have deemed "deleted scenes," and their relation to a theoretical and non theoretical Rule 4 By Proxy argument.

This is possible because most DVD releases of deleted scenes sort them into groups, and thus give titles for all the segments. And the argument that's been given in T:TF is that some of these "deleted sequences" should be given pages and then made valid, on the justification that future stories reference them.

A good reason to revisit this now is that we have just changed Rule 1. Arguably, our old Rule 1 would have made this debate a null discussion, as few deleted scenes could be called completed narratives. However, now that our rules state that we validate Fiction in general, this is entire possibly as a route for us to take.

Again, we would not be validating all deleted scenes, just those which can be justified. Additionally, we would only validate deleted scenes which were "produced", and thus can be viewed. The idea of a deleted scene, something that was written and then scrapped before filming began, would not be something that could be validated. We would still require these scenes to have been commercially licensed and released in some way, especially things on DVD.

There are a few examples of this I've come up with to help everyone understand the idea here.

Remembrance of the Daleks
In the TV story Remembrance of the Daleks, the Seventh Doctor and Davros have a showdown which ends in the destruction of Skaro. In the original script, which was filmed, this exchange takes place:


 * Davros: Are you threatening me? If so, it is most unwise.
 * The Doctor: Every time our paths have crossed, I have defeated you.
 * Davros: (laughs) You flatter yourself, Doctor! In the end, you are merely another Time Lord!
 * The Doctor: Oh Davros. I am far more than 'just another Time Lord.'

This was ultimately deleted from the episode, but was later featured in the documentary 30 Years in the TARDIS and its sequel edit More than 30 Years in the TARDIS. Because of this, any child or adult introduced to Doctor Who in the 1990s probably saw this clip, and many presumed it was in the episode and was, er, "In the Doctor Who universe" already.

Now, according to our page on the story, no special edition has ever edited this into the episode. Many fans claim to have seen it air in the story on PBS, but until we find a copy that proves this, it seems to be a false memory caused by 30 Years. If we do find an off-air VHS with the scene intact one day, it would be valid regardless of this debate. For all I know, there is proof of this out there... But for the sake of this debate, please allow me to use this as an example. :)

Despite this, it is a fact that this scene has been referenced in future fiction as if it really took place.

The easiest to reference is Doctor Who: The Novelisation of the Hit TV Movie, a novelisation of TV: Doctor Who.

"[The Master] swung round to Chang Lee, his dark glasses gone, bearing down on the Chinese boy with green serpentine eyes. 'Did you know, the Doctor once boasted of being "more than just a Time Lord"?' Change Lee was bewildered now - this was getting slightly out of his league. 'Oh, yeah, right. What?' 'He really should have said "less than a Time Lord"! He's half-human - a hybrid. [The Master then calls the Doctor a racial slur meant for people who are mixed-race].'"

- PROSE: Doctor Who: The Novelisation of the Hit TV Movie

So as you can see here, the Remembrance deleted scene is here used to justify the "Doctor is half-human" retcon. Typically, however, fans like to use this as evidence of The Other/Timeless Child stuff, and I imagine this quote has been referenced in more stories than this.

Regardless, this is a key example of what would typically be enough for Rule 4 By Proxy. If this scene hadn't been cut from Remembrance, and for some reason the Rule 4ness of this story was put into doubt, we could use this quote to say "Hey, that TV story is valid."

Instead, the question is does this validate the deleted scene? And if so, what is the procedure from here.

Some would likely prefer that we keep all deleted scenes on the story pages themselves. However, I disagree. Since we're only covering deleted scenes which were officially released (thus passing Rule 2) and were referenced in future releases (thus passing Rule 4) it would not be good enough to have all deleted scenes from a story grouped together. There would just be no proper way to indicate which deleted scenes we've agreed to cover, which ones have official releases, and even which ones were filmed and not just scripted.

Instead, I think we need a story page for every deleted scene we cover. In this instance, I have no idea for a title to this sequence, as the DVD copy I've found kind of groups all the scenes together. But I imagine some title has been given at some point, even if just in an article, just enough to give a page name. If not, we can simply go with something awful, like Deleted scene 12 (Remembrance of the Daleks home video).

The point is that we would then validate the story based on its continuity to the 1996 novel of the TV movie, and likely other references as well.

Journey's End, scene 135
Next, let's discuss a case study where we actually have some authorial intent to cite!

In Series 4's finale, Journey's End, the so-called Meta-Crisis Doctor is left on Pete's World to live his life with Rose Tyler. Originally, the sequence was going to show the Tenth Doctor giving his copy a piece of TARDIS coral, with the intention of him growing a second TARDIS for Rose and him to explore the universe with. This was actually filmed! In the recorded scene, the Meta-Crisis Doctor complains that growing a TARDIS takes thousands of years. But Donna explains:


 * Donna Noble: If you shattify the plasmic shell and modify the dimensions stabiliser to [something something something] 6.3... youuuu accelerate the growth power by 59!

Which means that growing a TARDIS should only take 30 or 40 years. This moment doesn't really make sense, it's a little fan-fictiony in my opinion, and it was ultimately deleted only because it threw the pacing of the episode off. However, it was the opinion of writer Russell T Davies that the scene always had a chance of "being set inside the ''Doctor Who universe" and that it could be revisited later.

"We argued over this, and part of me still wishes it was in. But Julie was right though it was just getting in the way of so many complicated endings and so many complicated emotions. It did just throw you in the middle when you suddenly start talking about a new TARDIS... So I like to image this still happened though. So one day we'll come back and put this one back in! Okay..."

- Russell T Davies, discussing "Episode 13 Scene 135".

Since this all came out, there have been numerous stories to feature the further adventures of Rose and Meta, and as Russell directly stated "this did happen", most indeed have referenced this scene as having taken place.