User:Epsilon the Eternal/Opening posts/Non-narrative fiction

For around the past decade-and-a-half, this Wiki has drawn a Line in the Sand about what fiction can be a valid source for writing in-universe articles, by essentially judging a given source — aka a piece of fiction — based on a set of essentially four pieces of critera. But for a small amount arbitrary of arbitrary reasons, non-narrative fiction has been on the Other Side of the Line in the Sand, as it is treated as an "invalid source".

To quote Douglas Adams, "This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

In this Forum thread, I have several aims:
 * 1) To document the history of the coverage of non-narrative fiction on this Wiki, to provide context towards the invalidity of an entire genre,
 * 2) To address the two "core" types of non-narrative fiction,
 * 3) To address coverage of non-diegetic references to the real world that can be present in some non-narrative fiction,
 * 4) Removing the distinction in our validity system between narrative and non-narrative ficton,
 * 5) And finally, what we need to do to validate this content.

History
As extensively documented by @Scrooge MacDuck in Thread:, which is now by-and-large lost barring parts I've been able to recover, the history of this Wiki's treatment of non-narrative fiction is frankly a absurd little saga. What @Scrooge MacDuck wrote is contained within the box below.

Are the Dalek Annulas "canon"?
It all begins around Christmas 2008, in a forum thread called Forum:Canonicity_of_Dalek_Annuals, which should tell you all it needs to know about how archaic this stuff is. It’s over a decade old, for God’s sake, and from a time when not only did we still use “canon”, but it seemed plausible that the Dalek Annuals as a whole might not be canonical!

Of course, the sentiment was widely in favour of the Annuals being made “canon”, and someone even mentioned that strictly speaking there isn’t a canon in Doctor Who, even if it took some time yet for the Wiki to listen to them. It is in the closing statement from (then-admin? if not, that thread never actually had a closing statement) User:Trak Nar — the closing statement of a thread that wasn’t actually about that — that we find the unilateral decision to make non-narrative fiction invalid. To their credit, Trak Nar doesn’t just mean to invalidate reference material and let non-narrative fiction slip past; they genuinely, actively want to invalidate the pieces of non-narrative fiction from the Dalek Annuals. Why?

"Oh, while reading through The Dalek World annual, there were some things mentioned that could be added to the Dalek article, but I am hesitant to do so as the information is really stretching it in terms of believeability. For example, page 70, panel 1 says "Did you know, due to the lightness of the metal, a DALEK weighs only two an a half Earth pounds?" I can see the mutant itself weighing only a couple pounds, they are roughly the size of a house cat. But with the casing combined? In the same annual, it says that the casing contains over nine-thousand components and eleven miles of wiring. And then in Daleks in Manhattan, when the two workers are shown struggling to lift three panels from Dalek Thay's casing, that seems to contradict that. Though, one could also say that the light-weight materials was a property of older Dalek models. Either way, some of the information just seems silly."

- Trak Nar

Strange to Tell… According to the Daleks (which remains invalid to this day) does say these things, but it isn’t more or less “silly” or “contradictory” than a given story in the Dalek Annuals. This is after all the same series that gave us The Small Defender, where Earth is saved from a Dalek invasion by a mole. Yes, you read that right.

It is a dull idea of Doctor Who indeed to which one would arrive, if one excluded every story that seems “too silly to be true”. There is no evidence at all that Terry Nation and David Whitaker meant for the non-narrative sections to “count” less than the short stories and the comics.

The Technical Manual and circular reasoning
Three years later, in 2011, Forum:Canon_policy:_Items_on_which_policy_is_unclear informs us that in those days, the “canon policy” (what we now know as T:VS) is still unsure of what to do with original in-universe information from invalid sources.

"The relevance of The Doctor Who Technical Manual, the in-universe history presented in part of The Terrestrial Index, The Doctor Who Monster Book and similar items and their suitability for use in creating and contributing to articles in the TARDIS Index File is unclear at this time, and up for discussion."

- the old “T:VS” as quoted by User:Tangerineduel

User:CzechOut answers — and closes the ‘debate’ with no further ado — by asserting that these publications “contain material which could potentially be used on in-universe articles, but probably shouldn't be”. Half of his argument makes sense, but falls under what we covered in Part 1 of this thread: it goes that some “reference books” like The Terrestrial Index are rather like this Wiki itself: summaries of information given in TV stories, plus theories from the author to glue them together. If the Wiki started reporting archivists’ theories from other encyclopedias, the whole Doctor Who universe would risk turning into Chinese whispers.

"All these reference books are one step removed from the source material, the episodes themselves."

- CzechOut

But CzechOut admits that this is only true of some non-narrative sources (the “reference books”). There are in fact non-narrative works which aren’t meant to be “reference material” for TV Who, but rather new works of fiction in their own right. CzechOut, with all due respect, makes oddly short work of these:

"They contain information about, for example, the technical specs of K9 or the operation of the TARDIS, or details about the sonic screwdriver — a substantial amount of which has never been confirmed in any narrative. (…) But I can't see the rationale for including the Technical Manual's ideas of what makes the sonic screwdriver tick in the main body of sonic screwdriver. Primacy must be given to narrative works on in-universe pages."

- CzechOut

Again CzechOut just flatly… asserts that primacy must be given to narrative works; that new in-universe information doesn’t “count” if it appears elsewhere than in the context of a story. He holds this to be self-evident, and so the whole thing turns into circular reasoning — in-universe info that doesn’t come from a story is invalidated because… it doesn’t come from a story.

Growing dogma
The saga continues in October 2011 with Forum:Brilliant Book 2011: a valid source?, where we see that the earlier, unilateral decision from CzechOut chafes with one of the highest-profile Doctor Who releases that year: the Brilliant Book 2011, which, on top of comic stories and prose stories, also contains snippets of non-narrative fictional information. On the basis of CzechOut’s earlier decision, now enshrined in policy, information not from a story is decided to not be valid, despite the common-sense sentiment from newbies that it ought to “be canon”. This isn’t justified or anything. And there’s even a question of whether stuff not from the increasingly-narrow category of “invalid sources” should even have pages, though thankfully the Wiki thought better of this eventually.

In December 2011, a grim epilogue: at Forum:The_original_inclusion_debates, OS25 tries to initiate conversation on this still-controversial subject, but it never gets off the ground.

…And… that’s it. That’s, as near as I can tell, how “only stories are valid” became an established part of policy. One user complained that they don’t think Daleks should weigh half a pound because (Graham Chapman voice) that is much too silly; and three years later, another said that information that doesn’t come from stories is automatically suspect because it doesn’t come from stories, and that therefore, information that doesn’t come from stories is non-canon.

I don’t mean any insult towards any of the participants in those early conversations, but surely, in hindsight, we can all see that this isn’t exactly sensible policymaking behaviour. This isn’t a solid base on which to write the first of the four most important rules of this Wiki’s validity policies!

The Two Types of Non-Narrative Fiction
In my time Wikifying non-narrative fiction, I have found that it can be sorted into one of two types. Type A, as I will dub it, is non-narrative information told from an "in-universe" perspective, and Type B, non-narrative information told from an "out-of-universe" perspective.

Type A
Type A is your non-narrative fiction that is presented as in-universe documents, blueprints, schematics, posters, and what have you. These are pieces of fiction that are styled to look, well, like something that has been plucked out of the Doctor's universe and into our own; they use unfiction, a type of fiction that attempts to convince its readers it is actually real.

This type of non-narrative fiction, I feel, is what we associate when "non-narrative fiction" is mentioned, and is what we want as a Bare Minimum to be a valid source at the end of this Thread.

Examples of this can include:
 * Anti-Dalek Weapons
 * Inside a Dalek
 * UNIT Publications

Type B
Type B... is a little more complicated. This is where a given source will be written essentially as a real world article, where its author contributes new fictional information from a real world perspective. But the core issue isn't truly perspective, as arguably all stories told from the Third Person perspective are being told from an out-of-universe perspective, but rather, how much does the real world bleed into it. Type Bs usually involves an author's pre-existing research, complete with citations and/or non-diegetic references to the real world.

So an article may give an overview of, let's say, the culture born on Skaro from the Kaleds. This would involve either citations, or a sentence/paragraph beginning with "As first seen in The Magician's Apprentice..." or something of that ilk. Non-narrative fiction like this, I ideally want to be a valid source, as citations/non-diegetic references aren't meant to be taken as part of the overall "fiction" being told by the source, it is meant to be an indicator to a reader for context.

Now, it should be clarified that we do have precedent of recognising non-diegetic references as such in valid sources. In many comic stories, there can be little "Editor's Note" boxes that may tell a reader that the Wrarth Warriors first appeared in DWM 19-26, and there are examples of this in valid short stories such as The Fantastic, Fabulous Gallery of Characters That Nearly Made It Into Closing Time but Didn't for Some Reason, which does make non-diegetic references to Closing Time.

Now, I feel that these citations/non-diegetic references, as I've explained, should not be taken as cause for invalidity, but I can respect dissenting opinions on this matter. I feel, ultimately, some of these Type B sources can have biases, where the author talks about their thoughts or opinions on what they're documenting or if half way through the production history of the Dalek casing props is brought up. If a Type B source has these, then it should remain invalid. But if it unbiased and purely factual, contains only in-universe information, and just so happens to say that the Saxon Master first appeared in Utopia, then the source should be valid.

Examples of this include:
 * The Gallifrey Chronicles
 * The 14* Doctors

When the Distinction of Whether Fiction is Narrative (or Not) Matters
So, when does something being narrative, or not, actually matter? I feel the crux of this question is whether or not it matters to a reader or if there is a technical, Wiki-based reason for such as distinction.

I feel, for the most part, a Not We would have no opinion on whether or not Inside a Dalek has a narrative, when truly, they would only be interested on whether this is a work of fiction about the inner works


 * 1) Article leads
 * 2) Categorisation
 * 3) Valid sources
 * 4) General terminology

What We Need to do to Validate This Content
One of the first things that must be done is giving every non-narrative work of fiction the disambiguation term "(feature)". This is current;y on some pages but not consistently, and in case if you are wondering, "feature" is a bit of terminology first used by the Doctor Who annuals to refer to non-narrative fiction.

Tardis:Valid sources will need to be overhauled; first and foremost, rule one will need to be rewritten. For example...

Such as category reform, standardise "(feature)".