User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-6032121-20190914173756/@comment-4000564-20200729230159

User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-6032121-20190914173756/@comment-4000564-20200729230159 Snorki McBolderbast wrote: While the emperors in Nemesis of the Daleks and Emperor of the Daleks! look identical, they are likely not the same individual. The last time we see the emperor in Nemesis, he's on the Dalek Death Wheel-spaceship. This ship blows up not too long afterwards.

I would prefer if at least the emperor from Emperor was also Dalek Prime. That would mean that Prime killed Davros, then Davros rose from the dead and had Prime killed. Alas, that seems to not be the case.

The "Who is Davros?"-line from Nemesis confuses me too. I assumed that so much time since Davros' era had passed that no records of him exist anymore. No current Dalek knows who he is. This would mean that the emperor in Nemesis is not Dalek Prime. Nemesis is supposed to take place sometime in the Frontier in Space-era, right? That's likely before Davros is resurrected in Destiny of the Daleks. If I don't remember wrong, Emperor of the Daleks! might as well take place centuries later from the Daleks' perspective.

Working on the Second Dalek War pages recently, I've reached much of the same conclusions. I've noticed Nemesis and Emperor! tend to get mistakenly lumped together as if they're a Part 1 and Part 2. But apart from the latter briefly revisiting the former in order to bring back Abslom Daak and the Kill-Wagon crew, the stories are separate and deal with Daleks from different eras (Nemesis, the Second Dalek War; Emperor!, the Imperial-Renegade War) and the Emperors, while identical, are not the same (unless they're both the Dalek Prime).

From my reading, I reckon it's more likely the Nemesis Emperor (Nemperor) is the same as the Dalek Emperor from The Dalek Conquests (Conquemperor), who approves Operation Divide and Conquer. They're both active during the Second Dalek War. And while it's possible one is the successor of the other, it doesn't seem likely. Reason being that if the Earth Empire was powerful enough to take down Conquemperor, how can they still be in such dire straits at the end of the war in Prisoner of the Daleks? Even if they got him by accident, then at the very least, you'd think somebody would mention, "How can we have killed the Emperor in '65 [or whatever] and still be doing this badly?!"

I think is that Conquemperor is Nemperor, and he finally bit off more than he could chew with Operation Genocide. Bear in mind, Nemperor and the Death Wheel were blown up not by Earth forces, but by a motley crew comprised of the Doctor, Daak and a band of Helkans. Not to mention that this happened above a quiet and primitive world where the Daleks are afforded a lot of secrecy. So like Nazi propaganda pretending Hitler's not dead, the Daleks keep the death of Nemperor/Conquemperor a secret, with no reason to publicise it to Earth. Then Prisoner happens where nobody mentions the Emperor, the Supreme Dalek is in charge and the Daleks have quietly woken up to the fact they're losing the war. (The Supreme Dalek may also be the one from Planet but let's not worry about that.)

It makes more sense than there being multiple Emperors for no given reason. The jury's still out on whether these Emperors are also the Prime, but if this thread exists to clear various disparate Dalek pages, I think merging Conquemperor with Nemperor is a move. (If we're being really strict, both pages should maybe be merged into a page called Emperor Dalek (Doctor Who and the Planet of the Daleks), as that's where this one's first mentioned.)

If we can reconcile all (or at least most) classic Emperors as the Prime, then a lot of the above is moot. But until we're so confident, a smaller merger is a decent place to start, though the information about Emperor of the Daleks! will have to go somewhere else.