Howling:The little girl is Lucy Saxon?!?!

According to IMDB, Sydney Wade, who played the little girl in the first two episodes, will be playing "Young Lucy Saxon / Cole" in ''A Good Man Goes to War. ''(At first it just said "Lucy Cole", which only the diehard fans would remember was her maiden name on the Vote Saxon website, but someone updated it to make it explicit.)

On top of that, Alexandra Moen, who played Luxy Saxon in The Sound of Drums and The End of Time, is credited as "Lucy Saxon", which implies that this isn't just some other person who happens to have the same name.

This raises a lot of questions. But first, the most obvious: What are the odds of this being correct? I'm guessing they're pretty slim. Alexandra Moen's publicity website doesn't list a 2011 credit as Lucy Saxon And IMDB has had a lot of nonsense in the past. So, does anyone have any other evidence of this? --99.33.26.0 01:59, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

PS, IMDB also lists Catrin Stewart as playing "Jenny". And Catrin Stewart's publicity site does list a credit as "Jenny" in Doctor Who, 2011. And the link on the character on IMDB goes to the Doctor's daughter Jenny. And it makes sense that they'd have to replace Georgia Moffet, being that she was noticeably pregnant during the filming of this episode. However, the link on Jenny the maid from Human Nature also goes to the same page, and obviously they're not the same character, so it's easily possible this is just yet another completely different character with the same very common first name. Plus the usual "IMDB is full of nonsense". But again, if anyone has any evidence, I'd love to hear it. --99.33.26.0 02:04, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

I doubt that the little girl is Lucy Saxon, because I don't think that Moffat would want to bring up such a random plot point from the Davies era. Apart from that, although there was a lot left unexplained regarding Lucy's character, it didn't seem like there was anything particularly special about her. It seemed like she was just an innocent Human who the Master corrupted and abused, who later betrayed him. She also talked about her father in both episodes, and based on what we know about the girl so far, which is admittedly not a lot, she wouldn't have a father who knows she exists in 2008. It also isn't likely that Jenny will be returning played by a different actress. In The Doctor's Daughter they went out of their way to explain that Jenny couldn't regenerate, and when she did come back to life her appearance didn't change, so if they brought her back it would make more sense to keep the same actress.Icecreamdif 04:19, May 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm beginning to think you don't actually watch the show, or read the posts you reply to.


 * They never went out of their way to explain that Jenny couldn't regenerate, or anything like it. In fact, they established clearly that she had Gallifreyan physiology; the only way in which she wasn't a Time Lady is that "A real Time Lord is so much more... a sum of knowledge, a code, a shared history, a shared suffering". The Doctor clearly expected that she'd be able to regenerate when she was shot. After she didn't do so right away, he guessed (actually, Martha convinced him) that for some reason she couldn't--but then he also guessed that she couldn't come back to life in any other way. He was obviously wrong about one or the other.


 * As for which one, we don't really know. In Confidential and later interviews and writings, RTD was always coy about it. He said that it wasn't "necessarily" regeneration; he once called it "rejuvenation"; he explained how they intentionally shot it in the style of the TV movie regeneration instead of the new series to keep people guessing.


 * As for why they'd have a different actress play her, I already explained above that Georgia Moffet was noticeably pregnant, so if they wanted to bring her back they wouldn't have much choice--unless they wanted to give the Doctor a new granddaughter.


 * I still don't think it's likely, for the reasons I gave above (mainly, no good evidence)--but it's not impossible, and coming up with "proofs" that have nothing to do with reality is just silly. --99.33.26.0 06:28, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

PPS, here's the link that shows that Catrin Stewart is playing a character named "Jenny" on Doctor Who. Again, the only evidence I've seen that it's the same Jenny that Georgia Moffett played is the fact that IMDB linked both characters, along with the maid from Human Nature, to the same character page, which doesn't prove much of anything. (Someone on one of the blogs also pointed out that she looks kind of Matt Smith-ish, in the same way that Georgia looked kind of David Tennant-ish. I'm not sure I see either resemblance, but I guess this proves that Matt will dump his girlfriend and marry Catrin, right?) --99.33.26.0 10:25, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

How I like to think of Jenny's physiology is like this, when she died she wasn't all Time Lord like the Doctor said, but when the Source enabled her to regenerate (It said the source did this in a ref book, im not just clutching at straws here), it corrected Jenny's biology to make her 100% Time Lord. --Revan\Talk 12:25, May 9, 2011 (UTC)

They did go out of their way to explain that she couldn't regenerate. Martha specifically said that there was no sign of regeneration, and I'm sure that they confirmed that Jenny was dead before the Doctor left. Timelords have never been shown to stay dead for that long without regenerating, except for the Seventh Doctor, who was prevented from regenerating due to the anasthetic. I don't remember Jenny being given anesthetic at any point in the episode. They could have given Jenny a normal regeneration if they wanted to recast her, but they specifically showed her coming back to life without changing her face.Icecreamdif 02:04, May 10, 2011 (UTC)

Icereamdif: "Martha specifically said that there was no sign of regeneration..." The fact that Martha had to convince the Doctor that she wasn't regenerating is pretty good evidence that they thought she could. At any rate, all of the quotes from RTD make it clear that they deliberately left open the question of whether that counts as a regeneration. So you can come up with evidence arguing both ways, but if there's any "proof" in either direction, either you're wrong, or you found an error in RTD's writing.

"They could have given Jenny a normal regeneration if they wanted to recast her, but they specifically showed her coming back to life without changing her face." That's because in 2008 they didn't want to recast her. But if they wanted to use her in 2011, they wouldn't have any choice--again, very pregnant.

Revan: "when she died she wasn't all Time Lord like the Doctor said..." He was agreeing that she was all Time Lord biologically, but claiming that her personality, training, ethics, etc. made her not count as a Time Lord. Read the quote above, or watch the episode.

Anyway, Moffat could come up with some convincing explanation for a regenerating Jenny if he wanted to, and he could come do the same for Lucy Cole, but both seem like things he'd be unlikely to _want_ to do. I won't argue any more on any of those points.

The question I'm asking is: Is there any evidence out there beyond the never-very-trustworthy IMDB pointing to either of them returning this season? --99.33.26.0 03:36, May 11, 2011 (UTC)