Tardis talk:Canon policy

Just thought I would create a page for Canon Policy so that something can be worked out. Personally I believe that the following would be the best approach to take, what do other people think?

Ok i have had a rethink on this and I think info from the following should form the main body of the articles

Ordinary Text Entries

 * The Television Series (and TV Movie)

Italics Text Entries

 * The Virgin New Adventures
 * The Virgin Missing Adventures
 * The Decalog Collections
 * The BBC EDA
 * The BBC PDA (Or Classics or whatever the range is to be called from now on)
 * The Ninth Doctor Novels
 * The Big Finish Audio CD's
 * The Short Trips Anthologies
 * Telos Novellas
 * The Missing Adventures (i.e. The Missing Series)
 * The Licensed Comic Strips
 * Doctor Who Annuals
 * Other Audio products, e.g. Pescatons, Slipback
 * Prose fiction published in DOCTOR WHO MAGAZINE ("Brief Encounters", serials, Preludes, others)
 * FASA game books
 * The Ultimate Adventure and Seven Keys to Doomsday stage plays

Non-Doctor Who Stories
(Possibly also in Italics but does anyone have any other suggestions?)


 * Bernice Summerfield Range
 * Sarah Jane Smith
 * Other Companions
 * Faction Paradox
 * Dalek Empire
 * Kaldor City
 * Miranda
 * Gallifrey Audios
 * Time Hunters
 * UNIT
 * Spin-off prose stories in DOCTOR WHO MAGAZINE
 * Spin-off comics in same
 * 1960's DALEKS comic
 * K-9 Annual
 * Dalek Annuals
 * Dalek guidebooks

Not in the main body

 * Campaign
 * Dimensions In Time
 * The Peter Cushing Movies
 * "Scream of the Shalka"
 * The Infinity Doctors
 * Perfect Timing
 * Missing Pieces
 * The Various Other Charity Anthologies licensed to be produced
 * "Brief Encounters"
 * The Unbound Series from Big Finish
 * BBV Productions

Excluded

 * Fan Fiction not licenced, e.g. online fiction or anything produced in Fanzines no matter how well written

This will hopefully allow for the inclusion of more info on the site, keeping it as wide a policy as possible but keeping those stories not commonly accepted as canon separate

--195.93.21.34 04:19, 23 Mar 2005 (EST)

Hmm... the general idea is a good one (only TV-based info in roman type in the main body of the article, "expanded universe" info in italics in the main body, more marginally linked stories as notes in a separate section). I question the current placement of the comic strips: while the early comics are pretty dire and Doctor Who in name only, the Doctor Who Magazine strips are often as good as Doctor Who in any other medium. (For example, there's a good argument to be made that the DWM version of the Eighth Doctor is as legitimate as the one in the BBC Books.)

Is there any harm in putting the licensed comics in the same category as the novels and audios? Aside from the entry on the Zarbi, I doubt that John and Gillian would show up on too many pages. :) --Josiah Rowe 23:07, 25 Mar 2005 (EST)

P.S. Just a persnickety pet peeve: the accepted range of stories comprising the Doctor Who universe is its canon. The only time that I can recall a cannon appearing on Doctor Who is in "The Smugglers", and maybe "Enlightenment". :^) --Josiah Rowe 23:07, 25 Mar 2005 (EST)

I think we should be careful about making decisions about what is and isn't canon based on our perceived quality of the story in question. In fact I personally don't think we should be making any decisions about canon at all. Unlike, for example, Star Wars where there is more-or-less a consensus on what is and isn't canon, Doctor Who canon is very much open to personal interpretation. As archivists here I feel our 'duty' (for want of a better word) is to record and make available information about the fictional world of Doctor Who in all its forms. As long as we clearly indicate the source of each bit of information then we can leave it up to the user to decide what they include in their own personal canon. So, I very much hope that, ultimately, we will find lots of information here about John and Gillian and their meetings with Santa Clause and the Trods etc. --Mantrid 01:43, 26 Mar 2005 (EST)

Just another thought... Shouldn't the Doctor Who Annual stories also be included somewhere? --Mantrid 01:45, 26 Mar 2005 (EST)


 * Both excellent points, Mantrid. There should be room here for every form of Doctor Who, somewhere.  The only question is how we demarcate those forms.


 * And I think the Annuals should be in with the rest of the licensed fiction.--Josiah Rowe 02:33, 26 Mar 2005 (EST)

I agree that every aspect of Doctor Who should be covered here somewhere on this site, the purpose of the list was just to set aside sources which were likely to openly contradict a lot of the other material (although i suppose having BBC Books and Big Finish Audio in the same section is likely to cause nearly as many problems).

I suppose the inclusion of the comics in the other section was based mainly on the fact that I dont really read the comics, but if everyone wants to move them into the main body I dont have any objections.

The reason for the Annuals not being included was not a reflection on quality or anything else I'd just completely forgoten about them.

--Amxitsa 04:47, 26 Mar 2005 (EST)

On thinking about this further, I'm wondering if the Star Wars model of 'absolute canon' and 'expanded universe' might be the best way to handle the canon issues. What I'm slightly concerned about is that we shouldn't make it too complicated to work out what should be in italics and what shouldn't etc and having too many different levels of 'canon'. We're expecting (hoping!) that a great many people will contribute to this wiki and the best way to avoid errors in the presentation is to keep the style guide as simple as possible. So, maybe we should just have each entry (where applicable) split in to two sections - 'TV Canon' and 'Expanded Universe'? That way there would be a clear and simple separation and no need to have to remember the signifincance of italicised (or not) titles.

I'm sure that just about everyone would agree that the definition of 'absolute canon' would be all the broadcast TV stories, including the TV movie and K9 and Company, but excluding The Curse of Fatal Death and Dimensions in Time (though I suppose Dimensions in Time is debatably canon - anyone care to argue for it?). --Mantrid 08:04, 26 Mar 2005 (EST)

One good reason for including the comics would be the influence they've had on the novels, Frobisher being the best example. The TV Comics are also worth a mention, particularly as the Season 6B theory had its germ not only in continuity issues raised in "The Three Doctors," "The Five Doctors," and "The Two Doctors," but also in a couple of strips published shortly after "The War Games" which had the Second Doctor briefly escaping his trial before being recaptured by the Time Lords.

Including the BBV and Doctor Who Unbound stories could still fit in with the Whoniverse POV of the site, since we know the TARDIS is capable of travel to other dimensions, universes, and realities -"backwards in time, forwards in time, and sideways in time," - so any articles on the Stranger, the various alternate Doctors, or Dr. Who (Cushing) could, like the Valeyard and the Inferno Earth Doctor, be treated as versions of the Doctor observed during excursions by Time Lords or other observers into other universes. --Freethinker1of1 09:45, 29 Mar 2005 (EST)

I am a bit confused, what do you mean by Main Body & Not in the Main Body? Is there any difference to the articles? I think we should cover everything in as much detail as possible and let others make their own mind up about what they regard as canon and non-canon. I also think that Dimensions in Time can be considered as canon because,as said before, the TARDIS can move into different realities and universes, so Eastenders could just be another dimension / reality. Therefore counting as canon.--MJP 15:09, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What about other Doctor Who like In A Fix With Sontarans. I know most people would exclude it straight away but there is a 'sequel' to this story, Fixing a Hole from Short Trips: Past Tense? There is also The Ultimate Adventure stage play featuring Jon Pertwee, David Banks and Colin Baker as the Doctor? I know that before all Fan Fiction is excluded, but what about Time Rift (see Time Rift), as the character General Kramer who appears in it also appears in Vampire Science (EDA) so it is linked to the continuity? Also the webcasts Death Comes to Time, Real Time and Shada and is the game Destiny of the Doctors excluded or just not in the main body?--MJP 18:52, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Personally, I'm for treating anything outside the television stories, audio adventures, and novels in the same way Memory Alpha handles the Mirror Universe characters - included, but with emphasis that the characters and events do not occur in the Whoniverse proper. Something extra in parentheses for the article title, such as Susan (Dalek movies) for the Susan portrayed by Roverta Tovey, for example.

--Freethinker1of1 22:48, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've put the comics and annuals in the "italics" section, as per discussion above. --Josiah Rowe 23:05, 29 Mar 2005 (EST)

How About This?
After studying Memory Alpha's canon policy, and doing a little thinking, I came up with this:

Types of articles
I. The Doctor Who Universe

These articles contain info derived from the stories, written from an "in-universe" perspective. Sub-types would be "The Television Series" and "The Expanded Universe." Expanded Universe would cover other media formats, but would be limited to those stories which have been professionally produced, commercially released, and sanctioned by the BBC. Articles about characters, planets and races which first appeared in the television series but also appeared in the expanded universe stories could have a special expanded universe section which would contain info derived from those stories, as the earlier proposed use of italics to identify such info is getting problematic. An example of how this would look has been posted at the Sandbox.

'''II. The Doctor Who Franchise'''

These are essentially "behind-the-scenes" articles about the stories, actors, directors, producers, other crew members.


 * This seems like a good idea to me.--MJP 18:53, 15 Jul 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree... I think the thinking behind this is a good idea. In fact, I've already created a category called 'Doctor Who Universe' to cover all fictional entries as if they are real. However, I'm not sure I liked the term 'Doctor Who Franchise'. Perhaps 'Doctor - Behind the Scenes' or 'Doctor Who Production' (or something like that) might be better? --Mantrid 17:16, 16 Jul 2005 (UTC)


 * How would this affect the episode pages?--MJP 12:52, 17 Jul 2005 (UTC)