User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-31010985-20180428165444/@comment-6032121-20191213151549

First, feel free to skip this and just consider the second section of this post, but here's a reply to Ottself concerning the whole 'why we need a separate Wiki' thing:

My argument goes something like this: for what I personally think are very debatable reasons to begin with, Tardis Wiki long ago decided it wouldn't consider non-narrative sources or charity novels valid. When it comes to the main Doctor Who universe where there are thousands of narrative non-charity sources to draw from, that's fine. But when it comes to the Cushingverse, it is something like 75% charity or non-narrative — so even if we made the two movies and the comic valid, Tardis just isn't wired right to cover that narrative universe in its entirety.

I am all for making the necessarily-limited coverage of the Cushingverse on Tardis better, don't get me wrong. As far as this Wiki goes, your proposal is sound and I might support it, although see below. But I also think that no matter how you slice it, a Dalek Movies Wiki with different validity policies is the only way to go to get proper coverage of the Cushingverse on Wikia.

That is relevant to this thread because such a Wiki would work best if it had a partnership of some sort with Tardis, like the Faction Paradox Wiki does. As the Faction Paradox precedent itself shows, that would not preclude full coverage of the Dalek Movies themselves at Tardis anyway, you'll note.

…Right, now that's out of the way.

Uunrelated to the Obverse books and whatchamacallits, and getting back to the matter of the movies themselves… I would pose you all the following question:

Whoever said they failed Rule 4 anyway?
Sure, they seem oddly universe-breaking to us, with fifty years of "I'm a Time Lord from the planet Gallifrey in the Constellation of Kasterborous" behind us. But remember that Dr. Who and the Daleks was written before the word Time Lord even made its on-screen debut. That the Doctor and Susan were not Homo Sapiens was… it was implied in An Unearthly Child and The Sensorites, certainly, but even then it only said Susan was born on another planet, not hung a big sign on "They're aliens weird biology and incredible lifespans".

So using "but Dr Who and Susan are humans in this!" seems a bit disingenuous as evidence of intent that the films weren't set in the DWU.

What else we got? Oh yeah, the film presents a slightly different account of the first voyage to Skaro, and a substantially different account of how Ian and Barbara know each other, how they meet up with the Doctor, and how they begin traveling with him. And it calls him "Dr Who" several times.

Huhuh.

People… Doctor Who in an Exciting Adventure with the Daleks does the exact same thing! And yet it's considered perfectly valid, and has always been; originally as a "secondary source", then, when we decriminalized novelisations, as an independently valid alternative account of the beginnings of Ian and Barbara's travels with the Doctor.

It's a rather bold proposal but whatever you might think of the "separate Wiki" idea (which as you can see is wholly unrelated to this one), I think the original inclusion debate on the Dalek Movies just wasn't up to scratch.