User talk:Amorkuz

Computer programs
Small thing: when you create DM and Whatsapp, which I hope you will, category:Video chat has already been created, and both Skype and Chat would also be candidates for category:Instant messaging, in all the same categories except vision. 22:28, November 22, 2016 (UTC)

Joyrider technology
If you ever choose to make a page for the Joyrider technology (whatever you'd want to call it), I know of at least one other body swap device (the Reciprocator) which could potentially form category:Body swap technology with it if we find another (Cabinet of Souls, in-a-way-not-really-forget-I-said-anything?). Not pushing you or anything; just letting you know. 05:31, January 4, 2017 (UTC)

Roger (and Hammerstein, and anyone else in fact)
Not sure if you're familiar with this feature, but it's very easy to use. Let's say you wanted to create the dab page Roger:
 * Will give you a complete list of all pages Roger:


 * You can achieve the same thing, in this case, with just the first two lines, but you'd end up with a long bulleted list. In any case, I notice, for example, you've been added Roberts to the dab page Robert. So with this same format:


 * It will in fact give you a list of pages with "Roger" in them, which are not already at Roger:


 * All Roberto, Roberta, Roberts/Robertson, etc. You've done a good job, it seems. Or maybe you'd want to widen the search to include all pages starting in Rob.


 * Replace  with , by the way, and you'll end up with all pages where "Robert" can be found anywhere in the title, not just at the beginning. If you're searching for a surname, you might want to include   at both ends.


 * Anyway, I thought I'd introduce you to this little useful tool. I could feasibly make a template to make the process easier, but if you just add the above to User:Amorkuz/sandbox (or User:Amorkuz/DPL, or anything, really), you might find it a lot easier to generate such a list for editing purposes. I don't much trust the search function. As I don't work for Fandom/Wikia, I can admit that Special:Search is just a bit shit.


 * Sorry if this looks like an overload. I've had a tiring day, so I would usually try to be more concise. 02:12, February 14, 2017 (UTC)
 * Glad you like it. Delta sounds like a great idea, and to answer your question, it can indeed include pages with Delta anywhere in the page name. Enjoy! 04:39, February 15, 2017 (UTC)

Introducing... T:DAB LINKS
Nah, it's not as flashy as I'm making it sound. Tardis:Links to disambiguating pages is simply a link dump for "lonely" dab pages, which aren't linked to from any article, so they don't show up on Special:LonelyPages. But since you've been taking an interest in dab pages of late, I figured I'd let you in on this particular maintenance page. So you know, we no longer bother making the list there alphabetical. 00:15, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd never really considered it, but, logically, a DPL query updates its results on a page save. So it seems if you hit publish, you'll get the latest list there. Good question. 00:25, March 2, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I have no idea. I guess DPL can be temperamental. I doubt there was an edit right before your last save. 01:17, March 2, 2017 (UTC)

Sticks and Stones
A minor point, but should "Sticks and Stones" perhaps be a page for the rhyme? I noticed you made a Wikipedia link to that rhyme at Terrorformer; currently, the above name links to Sticks & Stones (comic story), and that very story features the rhyme itself. In writing this, I've already convinced myself hehe. If I changed all the links and ev'rything, would you consider writing up the article? 02:24, March 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh man, in checking my currently small collection of DWU prose (previous collection on another computer was far more extensive, but this will do for now), I'm getting a few hits for "sticks and stones", but none that actually continue the rhyme. Same goes for The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith, which has K9 strongly imply the meaning of the rhyme:
 * Mr Smith: I am perfectly able to complete that function, Clyde. There's no need to consult the dog.
 * K9: Sticks and stones.
 * That said, I don't think we need the complete rhyme to write a good page on it, as long as we can derive from the various stories which mention it the broad meaning of the phrase. 13:19, March 18, 2017 (UTC)
 * I got busy yesterday, but I actually remembered that I have a backlog of issues of DWM, so I have access to those comic stories if you want me to give them a read and provide you with relevant quotes and passages. 22:43, March 18, 2017 (UTC)

W. Hartnel
Part of me would reccomend putting the information at Billy (Pier Pressure). CoT    ?  13:42, April 4, 2017 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to point you in the direction of the "notes" section for Facades (comic story). CoT     ?  18:55, May 6, 2017 (UTC)

Ten explicty refers to jack being a fixed point just think it needs a mention

W. Hartnell
I don't see why W. Hartnell can't have a page; he died during or before the 20th century, and was buried in London. Whatever the story tells you. So many of those in the, or customers at Adipose Industries seen in Partners in Crime, etc, are in fact the names of various members of the production team. The Bells of Saint John even features the pictures of many of the production team, along with their names and actual online profiles, which were used in that episode. You just put a at the top of W. Hartnell, maybe the other way around, mention the name's significance in a BTS, and you're good to go. 02:27, April 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * category:Humans from unknown eras is a very useful category, indeed. I would recommend this one.
 * And you only need information relating this individual (they/them pronouns because of unspecified gender, remember) to the reference that establishes their existence within the story.
 * "X was a person who died" is not much of an article, but "After X died, they were buried in a New York cemetery, and such and such a person walked by their grave" is definitely sufficient to merit inclusion. Remember, we house articles on the most minute of references; we have a host of pages that just say the person is dead/went missing, and where their name is found. 22:17, April 9, 2017 (UTC)

Re:Main settings
Hey Amorkuz. Well, to be honest, I don't have a systematic way of dealing with this. What I try to do is keep the "main" part of "Main setting" in mind, really.

For the story we're mainly discussing: Slaver's Song. Almost the entire story is set on the Tupi village, but the last two or three pages lead us into Remand Station Mackay-One. This means a very small part of the story (additionally, a part of the story that doesn't really add much to that story's plot) is set on Remand, so I don't myself consider it a main setting.

Another recent example: The Pilot. A lot of anon users (mainly) kept adding Australia, Planet (The Pilot) and War zone (The Pilot) to the infobox. However, these can't really be called main settings. Sure, they appear on the story, but the Doctor and his companions spend little time on them; specially when you compare it to the time spent on St Luke's University.

But coming back to comics: I agree with you. Sadly, Comic story pages don't get edited too often, and sometimes these non-main settings tend to be left out. This is the reason why I try to put as many links and redlinks as possible on the "References" and the "Characters" sections (this way, readers can at least have a brief idea of what/who appeared on that story). Thankfully, some users like you take their time to make the pages more complete. However, I don't think that the infobox is the solution to our problem. I personally believe that we should stick to the real basics on it.

Another comic example: Beneath the Waves. The story begins with the Doctor in a ship on the deep sea, where he meets a few Quarks, after a few pages, he goes to the Twist, where he reencounters Hattie. Then, they travel to Seaton Bay. The plot of the story develops mostly on Seaton Bay. The scenes on the ship and the Twist aren't much important to the plot, if at all. Thus, I think it'd be unnecessary to add them to the infobox, because they are not main settings, just like adding the Quarks would be a bit too much, because they also don't add much to the plot.

Anyway, this reponse is getting too long as well. I don't think we (or anyone else) will get a perfect system on this, but I'd love to keep chatting about it with you. (PS: Congrats on the admin nomination. You 100% deserve it). OncomingStorm12th ☎  01:31, April 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I like this "system" you proposed very much. Though I don't exactly remember what happens on those stories, I trust you on their revelance to the respective plots.
 * Something slightly tangencial, but also concerns infoboxes and settings: Explaining a setting too much. For example, on What He Wants..., the infobox gives us "Hackney, London, 1962 and 2014". But is it really necessary to add "London" on the infobox? Because Hackney explains very well how Hackney is a part of London. (Not saying you, I or anyone else is to blame on this subject; this is just something I was always bothered by, but never talked about). So, as a general case, do you think these "double linking" are truly necessary? Because if we put "Location X, Location Y" on the infobox, as soon as we go to Location X, we'll learn that it is located within Location Y. Adding both seems, to me, like overcrowding the infobox. What's your opinion on that? OncomingStorm12th ☎  23:14, April 30, 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, glad to see we agree. Also, thank for pointing the third case to me. When making the page for The Dollhouse I simply added Los Angeles, because a part of the story is set on Hollywood, but most of it is set on other parts of Los Angeles. Now I see that putting Hollywood, Los Angeles on there is much more correct than just LA. This conversation is really going places. Or perhaps is it better to leave just LA? Now I think I confused myself about the "double linking". Do you think is ok to double-link in such cases? OncomingStorm12th ☎  23:52, April 30, 2017 (UTC)

Welcome to the team!
Just here to say exactly that: welcome! :)

Be sure to change the editorial mop water every once in a while, and feel free to come to me or any of the other active admin with questions.

Proud to have you on the admin team!
 * Oh, whoops! XD Armorkuz. Armorbot. Armorkuz is a little close to your regular name, which could be confusing, but I love it(!) and I appreciate the credit for my slippery typing ;P 19:54, April 29, 2017 (UTC)

Twelfth Doctor Companions Template
You've been doing a fantastic job as an admin in the last few days, and I don't mean to disrupt your flow or hand you too many tasks. But I just wanted to inform you of several problems present at Template:Companions of the Twelfth Doctor. This template is frankly in the need a bit of a spring cleaning, evident when you open the 'view source' tab and you realise that a whole GROUP of companions has been left off by a typo calling both the prose and comics groups "group 3." That's a singular issue, there's many more.

So I whipped up a version of the template that I would think is the bests:

Here's the things that I changed/would change:
 * Fixed the order of the TV companions (Clara, Nardole, Bill; not Clara, Bill, Nardole)
 * Fixed the doubled "Group 3" typo which caused the entire PROSE section of the template to totally disappear.
 * Removed repetitive coding and use of the word "Companions" to be more in-line with the superior Template:Companions of the Tenth Doctor
 * Fixed lack of end to italics section of the template.
 * Added Sonny (Clara Oswald and the School of Death) under "comics/Single-story." While it might seem like it's silly to add, the Doctor literally states to Clara "This is our new companion," which is a pretty universal way of telling us how to count "him."
 * Added new section for video games, where Lumpy has been placed.

Thank you for your time, hope this isn't too much at once. OS25 (Talk) 22:21, April 30, 2017 (UTC)


 * I understand your decision, although I think it's hard to argue against the Doctor's blatant statement of "[This is] our new Companion." He talks to the thing, takes it everywhere with him in the story, and then tells Clara and the audience "Companion." But I won't force anyone to add that without a debate.


 * I actually think that most of the "companions" listed in the template really need to be discussed. It seems to me that over the years the definition of the Twelfth Doctor's companions has somehow been stretched out to "anyone that he meets in one story, even if he refuses to allow them to travel in the TARDIS." Most of these "single-story" companions probably need to be re-considered. OS25 (Talk) 19:03, May 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * Oh, I can explain that one actually. ("I'd like to understand how a character who only appeared in one story overall becomes a "multi-adventure" companion.") So a single-story, Multi-adventure companion happens when we see only one of their adventures but we know that more happen off-screen. Miss Young, for instance, only appears in one comic story but she's been with the Doctor for a while and at the end they head back to the TARDIS. For a time, Brian Williams (Rory's Dad) was a great example of this, because he initially only appeared in one story but it was made clear that he and the Doctor went on several trips afterwards (if you recall, he sent several post-cards). Basically, a single-story, multi-adventure companion had more adventures off-screen that we didn't see. It's a rather important distinction.


 * Also, while it's probably the least important change that I wanted to make, I want to point out the difference in the sorting of colomns in my versions of the template, as I think the current sorting for the comics section of the page is really ugly. As I said above, Template:Companions of the Tenth Doctor is probably the best version that we currently have. OS25 (Talk) 20:02, May 2, 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much! The template looks so much better now, you're really cleaned it up. Great work! OS25 (Talk) 21:08, May 3, 2017 (UTC)

War Doctor Companions
Hi Amorkus, I've just noticed you've recently edited the War Doctor Companions Template, I have had on it's talk page since January to Add Heleyna and Kalan to that page, could you add them to the page between Rejoice and Ollistra? Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 05:55, May 3, 2017 (UTC)
 * Cool let me know when they revamp is going to happen and I'll help you out with any fish-y ones. Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 18:03, May 4, 2017 (UTC)

Re:Da
Hi, Amorkuz. Thanks for your response on my talk page. Re: the "Da" template, I can identify three problems with using it to dab (thanks for explaining that term) episode pages. Firstly, the user still has to write " TV " before the template, then add italics to the episode title, and write an extra "(TV story)" dab at the end of the link. On the other hand, the method I propose, " ", could take care of all three of those issues very easily. Also, surely the examples you gave (with different lines of comics publishing stories of the same name) could be taken care of by an extra dab, for instance " ". These suggestions would seem to make editing this wiki a lot easier and less time-consuming. :) --Time Lord ☎  14:39, May 9, 2017 (UTC)

Tuck
Hey, just wanted to explain why I left a speedy rename on Tuck. There's a character in The Incomplete Death's Head named Tuck, and since that story features the Seventh Doctor, I didn't think it would take this long for the inclusion debates to reach a consensus. Good call holding off moving the page, just wanted to clarify. OS25 (Talk) 18:10, May 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * Good catch. I think the conflict itself was with the species in Breakfast at Tyranny's, who are basically the Nestene Consciousness from another universe. The only real name we have for them is (as I recall) "The Wraiths," meaning that it's the best name for the page. OS25 (Talk) 18:31, May 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * Oh man, it's a big one issue. They kinda wrap the storyline up. The next issue will probably just be them dealing with other bad guys.


 * What I can tell you is that the "Wraiths" within the "dream" are identical to the "Wraiths" they encounter in the real world. OS25 (Talk) 18:50, May 9, 2017 (UTC)

Good call. OS25 (Talk) 19:25, May 9, 2017 (UTC)

Wraiths
Hey there! Nice to meet you;

I was just wondering (since you're the only Admin online right now), if I could have your opinion on a change I would like to make. I wanted to make a disambiguation page named "Wraith", since there are many types in the DWU, for example the Cloister Wraiths, among others.

This means that the existing page at "Wraith" needs to be moved, which normal users are forbidden to do. I was wondering if you could do the honours; I don't mind filling in all of the content.

Please let me know your thoughts? Many thanks; 19:14, May 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * So I've done some digging, and I've found that there is precedent for giving a species a DAB name if more than one story illustrates a species with such a name. See Martian, Martian, and Martian. OS25 (Talk) 19:28, May 9, 2017 (UTC)

Hi Amorkuz, I just wanted to clarify my point on the Wraith talk page!

I'm completely fine with putting off moving the page(s), I just am not fine with doing a Hunters-of-the-Burning-Stone style "block" on discussing the story as if it hasn't wrapped up. I've tried to word all of this without explaining it in detail because I really liked the comic, and wanted you to as well. So I'm not upset that the page hasn't been moved, I just didn't wanted it to be open policy that it can't be moved. Instead, when reading into the case further, I've come to agree with you.

Cheers. OS25 (Talk) 21:50, May 10, 2017 (UTC)

Karen Davies
You're welcome. Sometimes, I see other people add Speedy renames, and decide to check how many links there actually are. If there are few (in this case, only three) I move them myself. I'll now move the ones from the character, as there are only two. OncomingStorm12th ☎  00:18, May 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no probs. I just checked, and appart from the Valley of the Gods, it seems all my current speedy renames have at least 77 links. It'd be inhumane (or in-Time Lord-ne, if that's a thing) to ask anyone to manually move this. OncomingStorm12th ☎  00:28, May 10, 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I didn't ignore your last post on my talk page, btw (well, not on purpose, at least). I read it, but forgot to actually answer you. The good side is: it doesn't looks like many pages have "wrong" dab terms like the Valley of the Gods did. But it is really weird to see all those Daleks in there :p. OncomingStorm12th ☎  02:41, May 14, 2017 (UTC)

The Lost
My pleasure! --GusF ☎  14:53, May 12, 2017 (UTC)

RE: Thank you note
No problem ^_^ I realised I wasn't going to get anywhere so I figured there was no point "fuelling the fire" so to speak. I'll leave the rest up to you and the other faithful admins :) Snivystorm ☎  19:50, May 14, 2017 (UTC)

Actor/Actress
Just a heads up Actress is roper English form as you put it in the edit history for Susan Foreman, it's one of the few English words where there is an male and female form, so Actress was acceptable on that page. Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 15:44, May 18, 2017 (UTC)


 * I don't see what the Guardian's opinion has to do with his wiki. Regardless of their opinion, the Oxford Dictionary considers "actress" to be a perfectly proper word. Certainly, I see value in using the word on this wiki for pages about particularly glamorous individuals such as Iris Wildthyme or Marlene Dietrich. CoT     ?  18:34, May 18, 2017 (UTC)


 * Ah gotcha. The fact that you did it on Susan Foreman gave me the wrong idea. Do you plan on fixing other uses of "actress" in BTS areas?  CoT     ?  19:08, May 18, 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't advocating its use I was just saying it is a word. Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 13:02, May 19, 2017 (UTC)

Location renames
I see, but I can't quite understand how "The general rule of thumb is to make the name a single, simple word, such as (planet), (moon) or the like" applies to those cases. Yes, in general we tend to use the simple words, if the thing is the only "thing" with that name. So, if we have a character, a planet and a star system with the same name, then the small words are useful, because if quickly lets us figure out what is what.

However, this does not happen with White Rabbit (Legion). Just from the title, what is the "White Rabbit"? A place in Legion, an individual who lives there, a species who is native to Legion, or something else different? Unlike "planet", "book" and "system", "Legion" doesn't quite tells us what that the White Rabbit is.

Also, as far as I've seen, (planet), (species), (book), and the sort are only used when there is one thing with that name. As there is only one book named Black Orchid, it makes sense to use the "small word", but take a look at A Journal of Impossible Things (Human Nature) and A Journal of Impossible Things (The End of Time). By a logic similar to "(Legion)" and "(London)", these would be dabbed as "(John Smith)" and "(Verity Newman)".

Also, Forum:Peter Anghelides's future doctor naming does not cover what we're dealing with. There, it dealt with how to dab a character by it's first appearance. But our problem is greater, as we have two different places with the same name. Has there ever been a thread on how to differentiate two things that fall under the same "category" (two planets, two pubs, two pubs, etc) with the same name? OncomingStorm12th ☎  22:13, May 20, 2017 (UTC)
 * Hm, I see it now. The Coal Hill example quite made me give in. Well, I guess this is one of those situations where it seems weird at first, but eventually, I'll get used to dabbing this way. Anyway, thanks for the elaborated answers, as well as taking the time on the research. OncomingStorm12th ☎  23:24, May 20, 2017 (UTC)

Ilya or Llya?
Hi Amorkuz. I've read through T:CAST and it states "cast lists shall give the name of the character, as listed in the credits seen on first transmission of an episode". The episode I watched, and the episode presented on BBC iPlayer, shows the name as Ilya. I was wondering where Llya originated. As I understand it from the user who originally edited the name to "Ilya Sviatoslavych", the name appears on his uniform in Russian. I simply created the page in the name given on the episode page when I was making pages for the army officials. 66 Seconds ☎  01:39, May 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi. Sorry to have bothered you. The name "Ilya Sviatoslavych" originated further down the page under the heading "Biological data". I just created the page in that name because I noticed it in the cast list earlier in the day prior to your edits so presumed it was the same in both places. I admit that I made a mistake in not checking myself whether it was verified prior to creating the page. I should have done. As for a screenshot, I have provided one from the credits as shown on the BBC. Here its say Ilya, rather than Llya. 66 Seconds ☎  02:03, May 29, 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry to intrude, but if "biological data" was where that name was linked, then it might originate from the scene where 12 is scanning Ilya with his glasses. The page for the character notes that this is also where the "70 years old" claim comes from. Perhaps this is what should be verified? OS25 (Talk) 02:11, May 29, 2017 (UTC)

Re: No Real World
Okay, yeah. I wasn't sure on the exact policy to do with images. Can these sorts of pictures go in the bts sections of these articles? From our real world knowledge we know it is them so I assume they would be allowed there? --Borisashton ☎  18:20, June 8, 2017 (UTC)
 * Great, I'll work on that now. --Borisashton ☎  18:24, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Mind if I butt in before Borisashton starts moving everything to BTS? Surely allowing pages for these real world individuals is no different to allowing pages for unnamed songs. You yourself created The Birth of Venus using real world information to name it. CoT    ?  18:31, June 8, 2017 (UTC)

Additionally what are we to do with people that only info is from The Lie of the Land such as Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King Jr? --Borisashton ☎  18:47, June 8, 2017 (UTC)


 * Why is it even debatable? They are shown in-universe. That, as far as I'm aware, make them in-universe moments of Earth history as well as real world. --DCLM ☎  18:57, June 8, 2017 (UTC)


 * Note: if you post questions faster than I can reply, I will not be able to reply to them all. :)


 * Starting from the end: This is debatable because they are part of the footage intended to implant false memories of things that did not happen into the human race.


 * So first of all (it was first at first), this is exactly right: for the purposes of disambiguation it is allowed to create a page under the real-world name. However, the real-world name on the page should still be confined to the BTS section, which is perfectly demonstrated by the page for the painting I created.


 * In other words, the real-world information is normally only allowed in BTS and, exceptionally to avoid stupid dab terms like "Female monk (The Lie of the Land)" for Mother Theresa, in the page title. However, the in-universe portion of the page should only rely on the in-universe sources. Chances are that eventually information will also be found in-universe. When that happens, then BTS content can be gradually moved into the main article.


 * For instance, Martin Luther King Jr page could say something like: "an image of a prominent figure from human history could be seen on screens inside the Cathedral." One could mention that the footage was black-and-white, that the person was male, maybe even Afro-American.


 * To be honest, I would be surprised if there is not a single mention of him in novels, short stories, or comics. Unfortunately, these often remain unreported.


 * One final comment about this situation. It is important to know that this footage is a forgery intended to override human memory. Thus, there is an additional degree of indeterminacy involved: we do not assume that DWU is exactly the same as the real world in general. But here, the Monks could additionally modify the footage. The images should of course be still used. But the wording of what they are should be really cautious. Amorkuz ☎  19:19, June 8, 2017 (UTC)


 * So what you're saying is that the photo of Einstein, for example, can't be said to be Einstein, or the photo of Edison can't be said to be Edison... because it's not said to be them. --DCLM ☎  20:02, June 8, 2017 (UTC)


 * The year would be real world only...
 * So that means none of them, except a select few, can be said to actually be them? The photo of Trump can't be said to be Trump and so on...? --DCLM ☎  20:44, June 8, 2017 (UTC)


 * I think that the point is that you can assign names to these images, but it's best not to use those names on an in-universe basis if they've never been identified elsewhere. Also, Martin Luther King Jr was also heard in TV: Remembrance of the Daleks. OS25 (Talk) 13:29, June 11, 2017 (UTC)

Amorkuz, I've read through your posts, and I fundamentally disagree with your interpretation of how we cover the appearances of real-world figures. As long as Martin Luther King (JR) has a page, we can of course discuss from an in-universe fashion his role in TV: The Lie of the Land and Remembrance of the Daleks. We are a wiki dedicated to covering content within Doctor Who stories, and while we do it naturally within the boundaries of the DWU, there is a limit. You can't tell me that the photo of Trump isn't a photo of Trump -- because as far as our readers need to be concerned, it totally is. Even if Worf isn't directly identified in COMIC: Party Animals, our identification of him is proper, because our readers will want to know where the character shows up before the nitty-gritty details of when his name was said out-loud.

Someone going to a page on MLK will want to know about where he is referenced or brought up. They aren't going to care if it's just an image, or just a clip of audio. Suggesting culling this information is unreasonable. OS25 (Talk) 13:38, June 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * Another example: if someone mentions some element of Star Trek in a story, it is illogical for us to jump through hoops to connect the reference to the franchise. The statement should simply be added to the page, because people looking for information on references to Star Trek won't care about if The Enterprise has ever been clearly shown to be in the TV show Star Trek. OS25 (Talk) 13:46, June 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * The point is that you are suggesting a different page for all three of the current references to Martin Luther King Jr -- one for a mention of him in an audio, one for the stock audio used of him in TV: Remembrance, and one for the stock photo used of him in the episode. With such precedent as the pages for Struwwelpeter and Anthony Eden, it is obvious that at some points bends to T:NO RW can be made for the sake of our readers. As Czech states:

"See, we need to balance the terms of that policy against the other need to have an easily-searchable wiki."

- CzechOut


 * So no, I am not arguing against the policy. I am arguing with you about how the policy is to be handled, and I think that trying to lie to our editors about what images of who appeared where is out-right a mis-use of the idea.


 * The purpose of T:NO RW is to stop individuals adding information to pages like Victoria that have no basis in any story. It would be speculation, for instance, add anything to a Martin Luther King Jr page about how he fought systemic racism, because we have no in-universe evidence of that. But it is not speculation to say that an image of Martin Luther King Jr's face in an episode of Doctor Who is an image of Martin Luther King Jr's face. And if Martin Luther King Jr is mentioned in three stories in different terms, all three references should be included on one page. OS25 (Talk) 14:41, June 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * Here's a recent example that I've seen some of the admins bring up on a similar situation: we've all come to agree that "Paperback Writer" by the Beatles plays in TV: The Evil of the Daleks. At no point does anyone in that story stop to say "HEY! I sure love the Beatles, who are performing this VERY SONG!" Nor do they say "OH MY WORD! IT'S PAPERBACK WRITER! THE SONG THAT IS BEING PLAYED RIGHT NOW!" And yet, we have accepted that is is ineeed Paperback Writer, a song by the Beatles, because of course we have. Who would it truly serve to bleach the information on that song from the entire site just because no one steps outside the boundaries of natural character writing to confirm to a bunch of fan boys from the future that Paperback Writer does indeed have the same name inside this fictional Sci-fi show from the '60s. A recording of MLK is a recording of MLK, just as much as Paperback Writer is a song performed by The Beatles with the title of Paperback Writer. OS25 (Talk) 14:48, June 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * Wholly irrelevant. I find no precedent for removing information on references to ideas on the basis that you are suggesting. If we can admit that the Beatles can be heard in TV: The Evil of the Daleks and Remembrance of the Daleks, then there is no controversy in clearly stating that the voice heard in Remembrance and the picture seen in Lie are of the same man mentioned in The Age of Revolution from an in-universe perspective.


 * Suggesting that two of three of the most blatant references to King shouldn't be acknowledged is ludicrous. This would be the equivalent of a story mentioning Struwwelpeter by name and all of the content currently on it being moved to the BTS section. If Remembrance were the only story to feature MLK, we would still use his name as the title for the article. Same for Lie. And yet, because a third story gives a shortened name, you are suggesting that we ignore the fact that all three stories are referencing the same man. There is no precedent for this. None at all.


 * It is not a break of T:NO RW to say that the Beatles can be heard in TV: The Evil of the Daleks, it's not a break of T:No RW to say that the USS Enterprise appearing on a TV must be an episode of Star Trek, and it is certainly not a break of T:No RW to say that a recording of MLK is a recording of MLK. OS25 (Talk) 15:47, June 11, 2017 (UTC)

Appearances Tables help
Hey, thanks for the message, I completely understand, I appreciate you informing me. I was wondering, what if I were to do this instead? https://gyazo.com/4c4603d501a0a30ec8ba85b368985d56 whereby all official television appearances are on the table and anything else is still below in the lists and stuff. Or would that still be against the rules? Bhind45 ☎  10:41, June 11, 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the response, very sorry. Bhind45 ☎  12:08, June 11, 2017 (UTC)