Howling:Is the Thirteenth Doctor's Limit a Psychological Problem or a Physiological One?

This is the spin-off thread for discussing whether the Thirteenth Doctor's limit is a psychological one or a physiological one, from Forum:The Thirteenth Doctor's Death, Tangerineduel and Icecreamdif has raised useful pieces of information concerning this problem. Tangerineduel said,

"The Doctor's death features in Alien Bodies, it's implied in The Five Doctors the Time Lords can give a whole new life cycle to another Time Lord. In one of the New Adventures it's stated the 13 regeneration limit is a psychological one rather than a physical limit. --Tangerineduel 15:58, August 3, 2010 (UTC)2

and Icecreamdif said,

"It definetly wan't a lie that he told his companions. The entire plot of both the Deadly Assassin and the TV Movie was that the Master was out of regenerations, and needed to use the eye of harmony to get a new body and a new regenerative cycle. It would be stupid if they decided to write a way around the regeneration limit, because it would get to be a ridiculous number of doctors, and the Doctor would be more like Captain Jack if it turned out that he was immortal. Matt Smith, and his two successors should just stay on for a while(unlike Christopher Eccleston), and then the show should end when the thirteenth doctor is ready to leave.Icecreamdif 18:50, August 3, 2010 (UTC)"

Are there any more support toward either side of the argument? --222.166.181.242 19:25, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

I remember reading about Moffat saying that he will solve the regeneration cycle issue in a tricky way ot something. I dont have a citation but i read it on several places and on this wiki (series 5 episodes main pages). I dont think it's a psychological limit at all, but it's not clear how the time lords are able to give a whole new cycle, and now after they're gone if it is still possible.. But even if Moffat finds a way to give the doctor a new cycle, this doesnt mean that the show will go on until the 26th doctor.. it might end with the 14th or 15th.. Now to answer a point mentioned by Icecreamdif, i said in the other thread that having an unlimited number of regenerations doesnt mean that the doctor is immortal. He can still die. The tenth doctor mentioned it to Wilf in the end of time that if he didnt have time to regenerate he might die permanently. It did happen in Turn Left when the doctor drowned. So now we can't say that the Eleventh doctor cant die permanently or he'll regenerate for sure. So whether he has 13 or 1300 regenerations he's still in danger every moment in his life and that's what makes it exciting :)77.42.181.163 20:03, August 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, Moffat said an old friend would take care of it in a cheeky manner, but nothing ever came of it. I don't see how it can be a psychological one; so the Doctor would have a mental breakdown if he was to regenerate again? Surely regeneration is a physiological thing as it is to do with physical changes to the body and is started, without choice, after an accident. It would also explain how Time Lords could grant new cycles by altering DNA etc. The Thirteenth Doctor 20:20, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

It also might be relevant that when the master was offered a new cycle of regenerations, he wasn't in a timelord body, but a trackenite body. The timelords may have been offering to change him into a timelord, or give him a new timelord body, which would also give him a new regeneration cycle. This wouldn't work for someone who was already a timelord.Icecreamdif 20:34, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I always thought the big thing about taking away the timelords from the story is that when the Thirteenth Doctor dies, he's dead for certain...I suppose it is possible for the Doctor to find ways to escape it given that he could theoretically do what the timelords could do by building an identical equipment...but this would take away the meaning of the restriction that makes the Thirteenth Doctor's death certain. To be completely honest, I didn't know the Thirteenth Doctor's problem was a psychological one, I always thought the Thirteenth Doctor's limit was a physiological one that he was born with and can't be controlled, seeing what the master and him have done in the show; causing chaos, disturbances, disregarding everyone, and going so far as to bending the rules of time to avoid wasting regenerations like he did when he did all those solo adventures before going to Ood Sphere. However, even if the Thirteenth Doctor only has psychological problems of not being able to regenerate, it is essentially the same plot device as a physiological one...and the Doctor has thoroughly overcame physiological problems with psychological means...so they're just different faces of the same problem. Moreover, seeing how the timelords are ignorant of their own technology and how they have psychic sixth sense which is considered biological to them, they may not even know/distinguish between whether it is a physiological and psychological problems...in other words, the problems with the Thirteenth Doctor may be both psychological and physiological because there is no clear way to distinguish between the two. Even in the End of Time, the Tenth could keep himself from regenerating through psychological mean, so even if the Thirteenth Doctor is physiologically limited to not being able to regenerate, regeneration can probably be affected by a certain conscious psychological effort. Moreover, the idea of the Thirteenth Doctor has never made any sense to me, partly because if it's physiological, then it's probably not going to be accurate...there are always exceptions...There are humans who grow their teeth three times...lizards whose tails don't grow back...the whole problem is just quite muddly....--222.166.181.180 09:34, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Isn't there theories that The Doctor wasn't produced from the Looms, into which Rassilon intergrated a regeneration limit, meaning no regeneration restriction placed upon The Doctor. I read that there is the theory that he is one of the last womb born.

A.Riddell

Above, "the Thirteenth Doctor" states "Surely regeneration is a physiological thing as it is to do with physical changes to the body and is started, without choice, after an accident." I disagree with that. The Master refused to regenerate when he was shot in the new series and the 10th Doctor went and visited all his companions before he decided to regenerate. Also the timelords forced the 2nd doctor to regenerate.129.139.1.69 17:10, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Just because the 10th Doctor delayed it doesn't mean it was a choice. Like a human may nurse an injury before seaking treatment the Doctor might have suffered unbearable pain in holding off the regeneration, but had a need to say goodbye first. As for the second doctor, it is believable that the Time Lords could inflict an internal injury server enough to force a regeneration, thereby making it physiological. Lambr5 17:31, September 2, 2010 (UTC)