Howling:(Spolers) TEoT as the setup for Series 5?

My fave theory this week is: Rassilon is controlling the Tardis to issue the final sanction - The End of Time. The destruction of the time vortex.

I had the inspiration to watch The End of Time again, because of a few things from Series 5 that reminded me of it. Most notably, the fact that 'Time is running out.' 'Silence will fall.' Sounds like Rassilon's plan for winning the war. (Oh, did a parallel between Churchill and Rassilon just fly by?)

Structure of the Finales Over Time

 * S1: Doctor/Daleks, S2: Daleks and Cybermen
 * S3: The Master, S4: The Master and Gallifrey
 * S5: Ostensibly, the Doctor! and since that's right out ...

Rassilon's Stamp?
Try answering all the following questions with 'the Timelords at war' or just 'Rassilon' and see how they fit.

The parentheses at the end of each above is: R=Rassilon, DL=Dreamlord, T=Tardis. Those are the characters I could see as likely villains in this story, and you notice that Rassilon and the Dreamlord are options for all.


 * 1) Who would have the ability to use Amy's psi-footprint to read her future events from after she'd left her home? (DL,R)
 * 2) Who can (sometimes) force control over the Tardis? (R,T,DL)
 * 3) Who could chuck a spare Tardis at Earth (in the Lodger)? (R,DL)
 * 4) Who's scary enough - who could promise and spin enough - to get an Alliance to bag the Doctor? (Err, box, rather) (R,DL)
 * 5) Who could pull a scan of Rory's brain after he fell into a crack? (R,DL,T)
 * 6) Who's ruthless enough to kill Amy, and calculating enough to park the Tardis against a brick wall, both at the last second, to prevent a last-second miracle? (When did any other foe display that level of spiteful cunning and decisive action?) (R,DL)

Why I mention the Dreamlord: Aside from being a potentially horrible new threat, this whole season has had a fairy tail, dreamlike feel to it, and there's nothing really ruling out the Dreamlord having been the puppetmaster for all their adventures this series.

Rassilon's Hook in the Doctor's Mind?
How exactly can Rassilon be narrating TeoT after-the-fact, if he's back in the LGTW? (Obviously he could be narrating from beyond the time lock, or talking in the mirror before he addresses the High Council, but to me it implies that the end of TEoT:p2 was only a setback.)

If the Time Lord council can manipulate the Master's childhood as an escape plan, why not be redundant and do the same to the Doctor, for double the chances of success?

Maybe the Doctor's fear of what he'll become... that thing he's always running from lest he stay and bask in god-like fame and power... is Rassilon's message, his signal with which to create a link. Sulking in the the Pandorica will certainly bring out the Doctor's self-loathing...

Did Rassilon Pull the Trigger during TeoT?
Rassilon didn't say anything about how long it would take for his "final sanction" to play out.

As always, I'm just having fun and talking out of my arse. Agonaga 07:23, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

 * The dream lord has no control over the real world... He cannot control a TARDIS outside of a dream until he becomes (if he does) the Valeyard. On top of that, everyone has been saying that Moffat is trying to sort of stray away from the RTD era, so I don't foresee a connection between TEoT and series 5. V00D00M0NKY 07:34, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Re: the Dream Lord, I was picturing a scenario where the psychic pollen was activated by all the explodeyness of #10's regeneration.


 * As to any long term plan about the Timelords eventually returning or not, and leaving off RTD's contributions: they haven't treated the Dalek and Cyberman finales of that era as "hush, we don't talk about that anymore" type topics. Still, thanks for readi ng my wankage ;) Agonaga 07:46, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that the entire 5th season is all a dream? I saw someone else suggest that and I refuse to believe that because I dislike when a single episode of something basically didn't happen so if that happens with a full season then I will definitely not be happy. In regards to RTD, I think it was more about not bringing things from his era back. Moffat can't completely ignore and refuse to acknowledge the RTD era. V00D00M0NKY 07:57, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think its going to be Rassillon purely because its way too soon. Still we should listen the "SILENCE WILL FALL" and see if it sounds like Timothy Dalton, though I suppose Rassillon could have regenerated. Winehousefan 10:37, June 20, 2010 [UTC]
 * Agonanga, your idea about chucking a spare Tardis at the Lodger, concurs with mine that any sensible Time Lord race would have a bunch of Tardises 'ready to go' as soon as Gallifrey appeared over Earth. Just in case the Rassilon plan did not work. Torchwood Five 92.40.152.114 13:24, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * There was a massive thread left dangling in TEoTpt2 - the second 'weeping' Time Lord accompanying the female ( she was confirmed in RTD's book as being the doctor's mother.) That Time Lord could, if you look at the clip, be Matt Smith (or someone intended to look like him). Maybe this doctor will have to travel back to that moment to put something right. Although it does seem unlikely that they would want to link so strongly to RTD's era. But did I read somewhere that Timothy Dalton had been seen on set?81.141.84.191 00:28, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * You do realise, this is a new era that has little to do with previous story arcs? For start, the Time War stuff is all over now, the series couldn't go on about it forever and have every single finale connected to it. We're in a new era, a fresh, new start for Steven Moffat.
 * The most likely "big bad" of this finale is, according to spoilerists, Omega. There is a rumoured scene near the ending where he is apparantly "watching" this universe from the one he is trapped in, hinting towards a new, larger arc. But bare with me, that is only a rumour and might not be true. But similarly, the rumour came from the same people who heard rumours of the TARDIS piece and the explosion long before the series even aired, so it's 50/50 chance. Delton Menace 01:20, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, it's all good :) Just because I 'like' a theory because I can make it sound plausible, doesn't mean it's my favorite way for the show to play out. No doubt Moff wants to stand on his own, in case there are unsure fans with all the changes season to season since relaunch. But this is Doctor Who, they always play the long game :3 Agonaga 02:54, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Brilliant thanks for the tip Delton I thought it was Omega who was the big bad the moment I heard the Silence will fall. Though as you said it might still not be but still I think it is. Winehousefan, 13:15, June 21, 2010 [UTC]
 * Hey, it's all good :) Just because I 'like' a theory because I can make it sound plausible, doesn't mean it's my favorite way for the show to play out. No doubt Moff wants to stand on his own, in case there are unsure fans with all the changes season to season since relaunch. But this is Doctor Who, they always play the long game :3 Agonaga 02:54, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Brilliant thanks for the tip Delton I thought it was Omega who was the big bad the moment I heard the Silence will fall. Though as you said it might still not be but still I think it is. Winehousefan, 13:15, June 21, 2010 [UTC]

The end of S4 was not the Master and Gallifrey, it was Davros and the Daleks. the Master and Gallifrey were at the end of the Specials.--Bhillybillybob 12:40, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

I've essentially had the same theory since episode 1 in regards to Rassilon. As soon as the cracks were mentioned I linked it to the End of Time. It would fit for him to be the big baddy, but for that reason and the reason the season would have been at least thought out even when the End of Time wasn't finished, I feel it unlikely he'll be involved. Similarly, I believe his role would be repised by Timothy Dalton as he was received pretty well. However canon wise, there's more of an argument in favour of Rasslion than Omega. "Seen on set" posts are almost always made up - I've heard actors ranging from Patrick Stewart to Al Pacino been seen "on the set" of Doctor Who before....more made up nonsense.

Omega appearing is an outright lie made up by really geeky fan boys too. There's no way a character that barely appeared in the old season episodes wise is going to jump in as a convenient explanation for everything, and in fact, there's nothing in canon, filming evidence or otherwise to even suggest he'd appear. The only reason he comes up is because certain fanboys are lacking explanations - it is an actual cliffhanger for once and the fact they don't know the answer before the show comes on has led to undue speculation about Omega. Lets be clear on it, there's no evidence to support Omega rumours at all. It's just a wet dream someone made up while wanking off to the potential of "The Rani" re-appearing (the worst character of all time I might add).

I'm going to go out of my way to say it is someone we haven't seen on screen before or very little, or has yet to appear in Doctor Who. I feel it has been so lazy of RTD and SM to simply resort to bringing in old enemies and threats as explanations for things. Maybe it's time for a new enemy to be a threat - maybe Prisoner Zero.

However their is another scenario to Rassilon that would fit - when it comes to flying the Tardis....in the new series since 2005, there's only been 4 people shown to fly the Tardis. 3 to any real skill level if you disregard Amy Pond. You've got the Doctor, River Song and of course the Master. The Master of course seemed to like the idea of ascending to a being of "consciousness alone". It is plausible he stole the idea of "ripping the time vortex apart" of Rassilon. Blightsoot 14:47, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

I really can't see Moffat resorting to using the Master or Rassilon no matter what evidence there or plausable explantion posted. It just does not work in terms of _story_. The're no _art_ or _imagination_ in recycling in this way. Remember when the Daleks were and exciting and dramatic ending? The series is crying out for new ideas not the same old same old. The story needs to be brought to a _satisfying_ end and that needs new ideas. If Moffat rehashes old ideas then there will eb a lot of disapointment. Omega? It would take a lot of good writing to pull it off to make it satisfying. I'd like someting new instead. Jack Chilli 15:36, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Watching 'Amy's Choice' for perhaps the fiftieth time and it seems it is the only episode which has no correlation with the story arc set out. This to me cannot be a mere coincidence and must allude something to the finale however minor. Remember 'Human Nature'? No Harold Saxon mentioned there. And yet it neatly explained how 'Utopia' could happen. Moffat can't make that many production errors. No doubt this is a plan perhaps centering on said episode 95.148.109.252 20:34, June 21, 2010 (UTC)Tragic Vision95.148.109.252 20:34, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

We have speculated that Amy (young or old) may need to make a choice to replace the Universe. This might have to be one that exists without Rory in a tragic twist on her earlier decision. Jack Chilli 20:44, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Are there stars in the sky, in TEH? Agonaga 20:46, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

There are a couple of flickering orange lights in the distance at one point but no clear stars. Filming lights would make them invisible or they are not meant to be there. As usually it might just be an accident Jack Chilli 20:51, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

My theory is the wildest speculation that has not the slightest chance of panning out, but...the Nightmare Child? We have a Child, who we are beginning to suspect is affecting things on a BIG scale with her Dreams.

I don't know how Davros' ship flew into her jaws if our favourite kissogram is the same entity, but given what Amy/Amelia may be doing now, it does seem less of a stretch. The link between the universe and the Time War was open for a few minutes in The End of Time. She could have jumped to, or been brought to safety on Earth. I'm thinking Kal El being despatched from Krypton here.

We have seen the child CAL used to control the planet-sized Library, and the young woman who controlled Satellite Five in Season One, was installed by the Daleks while a little girl. Someone may care for the Nightmare Child, and want to see her protected.

Stephen Moffatt stated it would take viewers "a long time" to learn the truth about Amy, and to me at least, a 13-week run doesn't count as "a long time". Have there ever been inter-season arcs before, because this could be one.

Incidentally, Delton, RTD was supposed to tie up loose ends from his era with his last Specials, in preparation for SM to take over. After all the Time Lords and Gallifrey being gone talk, he could have left it there. To show us that the civilisation is alive and well, and living in Droitwich, uh, trapped in the Time War, has obvious connotations for Moffatt's run. Torchwood Five 87.80.103.44 21:39, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

@JackChili et al, I think we have a genuine lead. Take a look at the VERY first scene of TEH, panning between the moon and Earth. No stars. Agonaga 02:00, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Pre-credits sequence of the same episode? With falling TARDIS? None there, but the wide-shot reused from Rose does... And it's the middle of the city, so stars are unlikely for that area anyway :/ Cannon881 20:09, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

When is theis sequence assumed to be set. The milenum dome is present (and complete) so post1999? Then again in the whoniverse it may have been finished earlier!

I don't think the stars are relevent until we get to Amelia's cottage and the time travelling has all stopped. Jack Chilli 20:48, June 24, 2010 (UTC)