Talk:HAGGER?/Archive 2

Infobox pic
Well, even though he didn't want to sign his name to his expressions of distaste, above, Patrick Watt apparently doesn't like the current infobox pic here. Since he won't be with us until 1 January, though, I move that we pick up his work and discuss it. He's suggested the pic at right, though he was working on another. It seems to me that we need to decide on a number of things, inspired by Patrick's work:


 * 1) Do we approve, in general, of the idea of a collage?
 * 2) Are we, instead, happy with just the latest version of Daleks representing the race as a whole?
 * 3) If we want a collage, do we need all four of these — 60's, 70's/80's, RTD, Moffat?

Please note that I'm laying these questions before the community without bias. I don't care one way or the other. However, since Patrick won't be with us for a while, someone has to get the ball rolling. Please feel free to place your comments below.

23:21: Thu 08 Dec 2011

Approve
Not really an image taker, so I can't produce one myself, but I see no issue with collage images in principle. As a bare minimum I'd definitely include RTD and Moffat, but I'd probably count other eras of the show too. -- Tybort (talk page) 00:13, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Although as a side-note I'd include the bronzey-gold model representing Davies' run, and definitely not the Ironside paint job (which are technically under Moffat's era with the New Dalek Paradigm. Also, I have a feeling that for uniformity's sake, it should either be all "crowds" or all "single Dalek", not a mixture like the current infobox image. Poor 60s and 80s Daleks are being squeezed off to the side. -- Tybort (talk page) 00:19, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the collage idea, it helps represent all of the eras of the show, and breaks up te monopoly of the new images. That was another AMAZING message, from ME, InvaderMEEN!Contact me here! 12:52, December 13, 2011 (UTC)

I actually don't mind either way about the idea of a collage and think whether it works or not basically comes down to the choice of images in the collage, poor choices would look bad, good choices would look great. However, I do think that it is important to depicit the various models of Dalek that have appeared on screen (and ideally in other media as well) *somewhere* on the page. If that means in the info box, fine. if it is in the body of the text, that works too. Personally I'd be happy enough with the latest Dalek design in the info box (even though I'm not a fan of the design) as long as other designs are well represented elsewhere on the page.

I'd quite like to see a sort of informal policy of using pictures/photos in a way that actually represents the number of appearences throughout the show (and to a lesser extent spin-off media). So for example if Monster X appeared 10 times in the "classic" show and twice in the "new series", there should on balance probably be more photos from the classic show than the new series. In the case of the Daleks, they appeared on-screen in Dalek-based stories (not cameos) I think 4 times with the 1st Dr, 2 with the 2nd Dr, 3 or 4 with the 3rd Dr (depending on how you view Frontier in Space), 2 with the 4th Dr, 1 with the 5th Dr, 1 with the 6th Dr, 1 with the 7th Dr, (at a push, voice only in a cameo) 1 with the 8th Dr, 2 with the 9th Dr, 3 with the 10th Dr and so far 1 with the 11th Dr (I suppose 2 if you count the adventure games). I'm not suggesting that each story has to have a picture of a Dalek on this page (on that story's own page would be good though) but the main "Dalek" page should display a range of images of Daleks from different eras. Based on my list above, the Daleks had about 12 major appearences in the "classic" show and so far 6 in the "new series" (although most of these featured identical time-war design Daleks). On that basis "classic" Dalek images should outnumber "new series" Dalek images by about 2 to 1 in order to actually represent their role in the show as a whole. At the very least the page should not be dominated by images of the "new series" Dalek designs (ditto with pages for other "returning" monsters such as the Silurians & Sontarans).

Can't sign in as I'm on a different PC but user ID is "Mr Pepperpot"92.18.17.132talk to me 19:13, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

Against
I feel a bit like we've done the collage a little bit to death.

We've got it for Rassilon, the Master and the Doctor and some people seem to have decided that's "how" we do images now for stuff that spans across all of Doctor Who.

I am against a collage, partially for this reason and for reasons related to the Master and Doctor discussions. There are too many depictions of the Daleks to do them justice in a collage. With not just the TV depictions there's also all the comic story depictions (TVC and DWM) plus the Annuals and anything else.

I think a single Dalek image or a group of Daleks image should be used for the infobox, but not a montage of them. As we do for other species pages. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:57, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't feel too strongly either way, but I agree with most of the points Mr Duel has raised. I never thought that the single image was not adequate and so see no reason to change it.-- 16:27, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm going to nominally side with Skittles and Tangerineduel here. I think that Tybort's reservations have sorta proven the point: it's hard enough to decide on one image to represent the species; finding three or four representative images is going to be extremely difficult.  As he's pointed out, do we want all individuals or all groups?  If you went for all groups, you'd end up sacrificing the kind of detail that a single pic could provide.  Daleks, it seems to me, haven't varied that much in their designs.  A Dalek taken from any story is actually representative of the species as a whole. The fundamentals of Dalek design are fairly inviolate.


 * Having said that, I think that the current picture — that is, Pandorica-Spoilers-4.jpg — should be disqualified on the grounds that it's a promotional shot, and therefore violates T:DWUP. So in my view, we need another single picture.


 * Though there are numerous possibilities, this is one case where I think we can break the logjam by going for an unusual source. Since the dispute on this talk page has long raged about whether we should use BBC Wales or Television Centre Daleks, I say we choose neither.  Instead, I think the primary image should be taken from the TV21 comics or the Dalek annuals.  That is, we should go for the Daleks from a more purely Terry Nation source, rather than using a Doctor Who image. There are plenty of gorgeous, full-colour, painted Daleks from which to choose.  20:43: Sat 10 Dec 2011


 * Sounds like a good idea. Here's a couple of suggestions then from TV21: --Tangerineduel / talk 15:59, December 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * So, we'll add the Zeg and the Emperor pic then? --Tangerineduel / talk 15:00, December 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Let's give it a week and await any further discussion/suggestions. Remember to check user talk:Patrick Watt, too. 06:37: Sat 17 Dec 2011


 * It's been a week, so I'm gonna go on ahead and change it. --OS24 02:31, December 25, 2011 (UTC)

Images
I have noticed, as others have also on this page, that there is a lack of Dalek images on this page that are non-new series. I also noticed that most non-new series images came from Remembrance of the Daleks. I have began a hunt for older images to use on the page to try and remedy this problem. OS25 (talk to me.) 13:25, December 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * There, I think that I have successfully created a more varied-set of images. How does it look? --OS25 (talk to me.) 20:29, December 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * The images in the section "Dalek Technology" & below are not showing on the page, although the links to the larger versions seem to be working. --89.242.69.11talk to me 16:27, September 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Seem to be working on my end. -- Tybort (talk page) 16:51, September 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Most of the images in the section "Dalek Technology" & below are now showing to me (I was 89.242.69.11, earlier) but the last one, "A Dalek syringe attachment" still isn't. When I copy the image location, I get "data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D" which doesn't resemble the locations I get for those images that do show. My browser is Firefox 15.0, which ought not have problems showing the things. --2.96.18.176talk to me 23:14, September 4, 2012 (UTC)


 * Curiouser & curiouser: I've just corrected the spelling of the "Dalek weaponry" section header & the missing image has appeared. Make of that whatever you will. --2.96.18.176talk to me 23:20, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

Stairs
I haven't seen all Dalek episodes, so I could easily be shot down here, but just to clarify have the pre-flight Daleks ever actually been stopped by stairs (as opposed to climbing out of ducts) in any episode? It sounds like something mostly only seen in parody. -- Tybort (talk page) 16:59, January 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * In Destiny of the Daleks, Tom Baker escaped from a Dalek by climbing up a ladder. OS25 (talk to me, baby.)

Blinovitch?

 * The text from here has been moved to Howling:Blinovitch Daleks as it contained speculation.