Howling:So Rory is dead then

So I take it then now that the Rory we see is a Auton then Rory is dead. I mean when this crack thing is fixed then he will still be dead, so the big bang will probably be other than the odd flashback or other possible doppelganger Rory's last appearance. I mean the only way he can come back is if series five is kinda erased but I dont think Moff will undo the last series. Winehousefan, 20:50, June 18, 2010, [UTC

Well, the Doctor said something about people coming back from the crack if they could be remembered, and now that Amy remembers him because of meeting him and the ring, he might still be in the crack, but be remembered by Amy because of the helpful Auton lookalike. Or something magical and non-sensical could happen and that could mean that he comes back to the universe, back through the crack, and back to life for Series 6. --Halftimelord 21:01, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Rory remembers when he died. This memory could not have been taken from the house as implied in the episode. Deliberate plot element (a genuine miracle and Rory's reall conciousness has transferred a la Dust (Greg Egan)) or poor scripting? I wouldn't trust Amy's 'memories' at all; they could be false; planted by the Doctor when she was seven. The level of reality of the events we have seen may be variable. Jack Chilli 08:47, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

I couldn't help but notice a similarity between Auton-Rory and Bracewell from Victory of the Daleks. Perhaps Rory will similarly "become human" during The Big Bang? 115.69.5.221 13:47, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Rory Is dead, otherwise Amy would leave next season to marry him, and I believe Amy has already been confirmed to be returning next season. I believe he will just stay a memory - R 15:05, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

But how did the memory of his death get there? This happened after he left the big house so should not be a construction of the Nestine. His real memories are there and so the plastic Rory is the real Rory after all. He may not survive the Big Bang however. Jack Chilli 14:12, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

I reckon that, in order to save Amy, Auton Rory will hurl himself into a crack, so that he never existed, and therefore could not have shot her, therefore saving her life 17:02, June 20, 2010


 * Remember what The Doctor said in Blink [which Moffat wrote] - "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually - from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff." Ie, removing the cause won't necessarily change the effect. 115.69.5.221 16:37, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Yes of course that could be how this whole mess gets sorted out as without Amy dead maybe someone can save the doc. Winehousefan, June 20, 2010, [UTC]


 * Or, the Nestene might have the original copy as they did with Mickey. Scary Daleks hovering next to a crack, reaching in to pull something out just moments after the Doctor found his shrapnel? Agonaga 16:10, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Another possibility worth considering, at least in this week between the two episodes, is that Rory was an Auton from the start. It's still possible, at least until The Big Bang airs and tells us the truth, that Rory in The Eleventh Hour was an Auton, that he had grown up in Leadworth with his body subtly manipulated by the Consciousness.  Czech Out   ☎ | ✍  16:19, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, nice. Hadn't thought of that, but wow. That photo of Amy and Rubber Roman Rory got there somehow... and Amy's prepared to destroy any universe that doesn't have him in it. And (filed under 'it fits') the Doctor's "oh so what" attitude about Rory dying, and Rory being alive (and the visual of him pushing Rubber Rory like a weeble-wobble doll) would fit.  Agonaga 16:54, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * My impression of that photo was this it's from Amy's normal pre-Doctor time, and is just some sort of fancy-dress party they went to. This also explains why Amy is in her police officer kissogram outfit. 115.69.5.221 16:44, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'm striking out today, because you're right. She liked to make him play dress-up. Agonaga 16:54, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Exceeeeeept... if he'd sent Rory up there to kiss the girl, then Rory and Amy's lips would be two parts of time and space that should never touch, being pressed together. Not even kidding here, I don't think #11 was so distracted that he'd forget the biggest mystery in the universe standing right in front of him with puppy dog eyes. Human or Auton, that kiss would be a paradox. Agonaga 16:38, June 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think physical contact is important so don't see a significance in the kiss. Memory, the lack of it, love, the loss, regain and re-loss.  These are thematic so are probably more important.  Amy remembers and the world falls to bits. Jack Chilli 18:06, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ahh, the paradox in her mind being enough, then? Makes enough sense, although the contact of Rose touching Rose (or her clothes) was a big deal in Father's Day.  Just trying to fit-in 'two parts of space and time that should never have touched,' but clearly Big Bang is a better place to expect that. Agonaga 18:21, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Speaking of The Big Bang, in The Lodger, I think it's Craig that mentions 'a big bang' coming from upstairs. Perhaps it's just a co-incidence, but the fact he used those words really stuck out to me. And I can't believe that Moffat would have included this episode without it playing a larger part in the overall series arc, especially with leaving so many questions unanswered regarding the 'upstairs TARDIS'. 115.69.5.221 06:02, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

I've been wracking my brain trying to discover how The Rory Story for episode 12. There are problems no matter what. The reveal that Roman Rory is an Auton means that the Nestene would have to not only have Rory but, according to the Doctor in Rose, have him alive. Three possible explainations for this.
 * 1. Rory wasn't erased from time by the crack but was in fact saved by the Silurians and delivered to the Nestene. This would mean he wasn't killed either because the Nestene Conciousness would need him alive to make an Auton from him.  The biggest problem here is that Amy forgot him which would mean that either this isn't a valid explaination or that Amy is an Evil Alliance of Evil construct and playing along.  I say construct instead of Auton because if she was an Auton previously she would have melted during time travel due to severing communication from the Nestene controlling her.  She would have to be some sort of android like Bracewell.


 * 2. Rory was always a construct of The Evil Alliance of Evil. Again, Rory could not have been an Auton the whole time unless there was a Nestene on board the Tardis in which case The Alliance would have known about River.  The biggest problem here is that if Rory was a construct from the beginning, then why not use another construct instead of an Auton?  They would have to have a valid construct to maintain the Auton anyway.


 * 3. The Doctor was wrong about the Nestene needing a live body. In other words, we've all taken some retcon.  The biggest problem here is that it would be a big cop-out.Psykechan 07:43, June 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it's quite clear that the Nestene doesn't require a living body. It created all the Romans from a picture book. In Rose, the Doctor said that Mickey still being alive 'was always a possibility'. My impression is that it kept Mickey alive so that if the Doctor incapacitated Auton-Mickey, it could make another one. 115.69.5.221 07:55, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Taking 'the trap' at face value it does not seem as if Rory was part of that plan. A Rory lookey-likey was there because the Nestine used pictures and Rory was from a photograph and it dod not understand the difference between this real person and the Roman book. Luck break. The tranfer of Rorys's memories seems to be a _genuine_ miracle alowed by the fact there was somewhre for his memories to go (Thanks Nestine). Why whould he be in the plan at all? His presence would only lead to trouble and suspicion from the Doctor so I assume he was a mistake. He's not needed at all for the plan to work; any fake Roman would do. Of course now that he is there (was there as the Universe is gone) there may be a glimmer of hope. Jack Chilli.

On the subject of rory always being an auton, this would make alot of sense because, apart from his nurse uniform we mostly see him wearing the same things in every episode, even when he was prepared for rio, this could explain the id controversy aswel the nestene coudl have just made a mistake

Remember it's not just the Nestine. The Daleks can manufacture the artificial personalities memories from people that are not real (Bracewell) and that acounts for the personalities. The nestine just needs to animate the bodies it's made from pictures in the books and that can't be that hard for it I'm not convinced about he need for Rory though. His memories were the real ones and I can't see where they got them from. Genuine miracle? Jack Chilli