Talk:Regeneration/Archive 2

Edit of the regenerative cycle section
There were lines regarding "507 regenerations" and River giving up her regenerations in Let's Kill Hitler that required significant speculation. I removed them, but these arguments keep showing up again and again.
 * The 507 line is a bit tough. It's very unlikely to be addressed narratively, and Davies came out and said it wasn't a true answer. In the end, I gave up and went back and put in a hopefully better-worded bit of speculation diffusion.
 * As for the bit about River, see Thread:123204, where admin declares that it requires speculation.

Skin color
The mention in Death of the Doctor was not the first on-screen confirmation of Time Lords being able to change their skin color when regenerating. One of the possible bodies that Romana "tried on" while regenerating had bluish skin. 78.9.3.121talk to me 21:50, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

Looks more like to me the "blue" is a bodysuit, you cannot see her actual skin, her face seems to be grey, but it has a different texture than the Fourth Doctor s' hand. Like she's wearing grey lipstick all over her face, or some sort of silver-looking "cream" thing to match her helmet\breastplate. --Kaylabaraonda ☎  15:58, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

When does the Doctor say this?
"Even if I change, it feels like dying. Everything I am dies. Some new man goes sauntering away...and I'm dead."

I dont remember where about he says, which episode is it?
 * I think it was when he was talking to Wilf in The End of Time. JagoAndLitefoot ☎  21:05, June 5, 2013 (UTC)

Stabbed through both hearts?
Um?


 * More extreme changes were possible. Cavisadoratrelundar regenerated a complete body after being decapitated; the process was cut short when she was stabbed through both hearts (The one that she already possessed and the one that she was growing as she regenerated) (PROSE: The Shadows of Avalon).

Numerous times in episodes and other media before and after the revival, Time Lords are said to have two hearts. I understand that some stories say that a second heart is grown during the initial regeneration, and I have no idea what incarnation Cavisadoratrelundar is said to be in during Avalon, but this certainly sounds like a misinterpretation of what "both hearts" means. Someone with access to Avalon confirm its what an editor put in parentheses isn't just speculation pulled from someone's rear end? -- Tybort (talk page) 19:45, January 19, 2014 (UTC)

Amnesia?
Page claims, "And, after he regenerated, the Twelfth Doctor claimed he didn't know how to fly the TARDIS."

Not the case. He didn't claim to now know how to fly the TARDIS, he merely asked Clara if SHE knew how to fly it... something that might be important if he's about to pass out like the 10th Doctor did after regenerating in "Christmas Invasion".
 * Please sign your posts. Post-regeneration confusion appears to be somewhat normal, dating back to the first regeneration. 68.146.70.124talk to me 14:58, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

Weird Paragraph
"This visual standardisation has allowed narratives to play around with regeneration. The mere presence of "regeneration energy" can now be used to heighten dramatic tension. This visual short cut, unavailable to production teams in the classic era, has been a particular favourite of Steven Moffat, who used the "golden glow" liberally throughout the 2011 series; in fact, unlike in the Russell T Davies era, in which nearly every regeneration had subtle differences, every Moffat era regeneration is completely identical. About a quarter of the 2011 episodes used that VFX in a way that wordlessly suggested regeneration." I... What? This doesn't ring true at all. I don't even... What? The regeneration was standardised as of 2005/6 and has been the same since then. Nothing to do with Steven. As for him using it liberally for dramatic tension... What? Since when? River Song regenerated, revealing herself to have time lord DNA and this is considered "liberally"? Whaaaat? 62.254.12.55talk to me 16:37, January 25, 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks like someone tried to make an essay out of it with speculation. The fact the process of regeneration was standardized in its depiction in the RTD era (even though handled differently, the Eighth and Eleventh Doctor regenerations still made use of the same basic format) is fine to mention, but the speculation/essay bit can and should probably be cut unless someone can find a published source that says the same thing and can be cited. 68.146.70.124talk to me 15:00, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

Corrections
Removed:


 * There have been exceptions. ... while - body-steering issues aside - the transition for the Eleventh Doctor into his new body was also smoother than most.

I can't tell what this means by "smoother than most", and it's also really vague as to what "new body"? Is it the Eleventh Doctor getting used to his body or the transition from numbers Eleven to Twelve? And if it's the latter, do we have any real proof of this?

Corrected:


 * The Eleventh Doctor once claimed he could regenerate five hundred and seven times. (TV: Death of the Doctor) It was later revealed to not be true and that he only had thirteen lives and due to his becoming the War Doctor and his biological Meta Crisis, the Eleventh Doctor was actually his last body. However, the Time Lords granted him a new cycle of regenerations before he could die for the final time. (TV: The Time of the Doctor)

to:


 * The Eleventh Doctor once claimed he could regenerate five hundred and seven times. (TV: Death of the Doctor) It was later revealed to not be true and that he only had twelve lives counting the Eighth Doctor's regeneration into the War Doctor and the Tenth Doctor using up a regeneration during his life but keeping the same face. However, the Time Lords granted him a new cycle of regenerations before the Eleventh Doctor could die for the final time. (TV: The Time of the Doctor)

While the Tenth Doctor keeping the same face in Journey's End led to the creation of the Meta-Crisis, the Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor is not literally incarnation number twelve (or eleven discounting the War Doctor). The Meta-Crisis is the result of the hand becoming part-Donna. The regeneration was already used up before jar which held the Tenth Doctor's hand broke. -- Tybort (talk page) 22:53, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

"regarded his previous incarnations as different individuals"

 * In fact, the Doctor seemed to regard his previous incarnations as different individuals, capable of interacting and working with each other. (TV: The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors, Time Crash, The Day of the Doctor)

Do any of these stories outright SAY this? I'm sure that at the very least The Three Doctors and The Day of the Doctor simply say the Doctor's the Doctor. Eleven has outright interacted with Eleven in instances like The Big Bang, Time and Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS, while I think Three briefly interacted with a future version of himself in Day of the Daleks. -- Tybort (talk page) 13:47, March 27, 2014 (UTC)

Appearance control
In the episode with the reptile lady, she rants to the Doctor's companion regarding his newest (Peter Capaldi) appearance as an older man. Something like the younger more handsome previous appearance was to get people to like him, and that opting to appear older is revealing more of himself, since he actually is old, and feels old, and that it was an act of trust towards his companion, one she betrayed by rejecting him for it.

Doesn't this mean that the Doctor, at least on a subconcious level, is actually capable of controlling his appearance changes during regeneration to some degree? Perhaps not absolute control or even conscious control, but some influence that reptile lady picked up on? Or is she just guessing or making stuff up that isn't true? BonnibelFlame ☎  01:42, September 11, 2014 (UTC)

Genders
With Missy being revealed as the Master, it's no longer fanon that time lords can change genders. So I think the page should be altered in accordance. --Stryzzar (talk page) 12:27, November 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * It hasn't been fanon since we learned about the Corsair. JagoAndLitefoot ☎  02:35, November 5, 2014 (UTC)