Talk:Series 7 (Doctor Who)/Archive 3

Final warning to all Users about Doctor Who TV
This is a one and only warning regarding Doctor Who TV.

It cannot be used as a source. The only Doctor Who related sites that can be used are Gallifrey Base (accessible via the news feed on the front page) and the official website.

All casting, filming, rumours must come from media (newspapers etc) and news sites (digital spy) - where everything has a base source. Doctor Who TV uses sources that are 'fans', with nothing to back them up. If they do have a source, please link via the source and not Doctor Who TV. MM/ Want to talk? 22:19, August 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well someone keeps uploading it as a source and creating rumors. Whoever is doing this needs a ip ban... I'm starting to lose my calm... -114.76.1.117
 * The episode 7 thing that got reverted twice recently did have a source, they just neglected to link to it. I've now added said source (a website of a crew member which has a CV on it - a first party source). They don't always report bullshit.
 * If I may ask is there an actual black and white list of banned sources? At one point I believe I put the John Fay report (which I would have cited) which uses Fay's CV as a source; it should be noted that CVs have been used by other sites such as the Doctor Who News Page. Not everyone is intimately familiar with how ever single website is operated. Maybe MM (an admin?) could be so kind as to create a list of sources that should not be used. Maybe some sort of sticky can be created when one clicks the Edit button. 70.72.211.35talk to me 21:42, October 18, 2012 (UTC)

Clara Oswin
Is the Mirror really a suitable source? Tabloids print wrong info all the time. The Sun's TV Magazine included the same name in an article, but in light of Asylum of the Daleks, in which Jenna-Louise plays somebody called Oswin Oswald, it seems that Clara Oswin was incorrect. Either they're different characters, or she's not called Clara at all.
 * And sure enough, turned out to be Clara Oswald.
 * Clara *Oswin* Oswald, as seen on her tombstone.Thor214 ☎  01:57, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

Grammatic tenses
Just wondered, since the series has now started airing, should the relevant parts of the article be converted to past tense, e.g. "Series 7 began airing on the 1st of September 2012" rather than "Series 7 will begin airing..."; "Toby Whithouse wrote episode 3" rather than "Whithouse will write..."? Or do we wait for the last episode to air before converting the article? I'd be happy to do the editing; just wanted to check before rushing in there. The Colclough ☎  18:48, September 18, 2012 (UTC)

Arcs / Recurring Themes
So, given the season-arc nature of the series, and the prevalent themes that crop up over the course of a season, I wonder if perhaps the revived series' season pages should describe the relevant arc and/or theme(s) present in the series. The ones that come to mind I've listed below: Obviously, not all of these necessarily warrant mention, but some are deliberate, relevant season arcs (Bad Wolf, Vote Harold Saxon, DoctorDonna) that have more to do with the season as a whole than they do individual episodes.
 * Series 1: "Bad Wolf"
 * Series 2: Torchwood
 * Series 3: Vote Harold Saxon
 * Series 4: DoctorDonna, Disappearing Bees, There's Something On Your Back
 * 2009 Specials: He Will Knock Four Times
 * Series 5: Cracks in Time
 * Series 6: Silence Will Fall, Death of the Doctor
 * Series 7: Christmas, Flickering Lights

As it is, almost all of the season pages are unique (read: inconsistent) and could use some reorganization, so I thought it might be good to bring up the possibility of a Themes section as we approach a three-month hiatus and can afford to do some spring cleaning. Thoughts? d ● • ·  16:40, September 24, 2012 (UTC)

"Introduction of Clara Oswin" needs to be reworded
As I understand the policies here, we don't announce character names, etc until the episode airs. The statement "Introduction of Clara Oswin" next to the Christmas special therefore is improper, plus may be outdated since presumably it was added before Asylum of the Daleks raised a question mark as to whether that might be the true introduction to the character (putting aside controversy regarding the name, remembering that the BBC has yet to officially confirm the character's name going forward from the Christmas Special). It should be removed and perhaps replaced with "Jenna-Louise Coleman joins as a series regular." With "Introduction of "Jenna-Louise Coleman" added to Asylum's entry - note I didn't say mention the character's name as we do not know yet whether she'll play a new character or Oswin Oswald. 70.72.211.35talk to me 17:40, October 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * This is exactly what I said above - Clara Oswin is wrong. Surely if anything, it would be Clara Oswald (an ancestor of Oswin, perhaps? We can only speculate so far). Fact is, her surname is unknown and shouldn't be on the page.
 * Then why can't somebody change it? I tried, but was reverted by minimitch without a word of explanation. Graske of the mandragora ☎  07:40, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * That was an accident, I've not had time to change it/state why. I saw you had changed it to say 'Jenna Louise Coleman' and for some reason I thought 'we know it's Clara' and it was not until I reverted I realised my mistake. I am sorry. MM/ Want to talk? 09:31, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. I realise you're busy, and it's not as if I was inconvenienced at all. Graske of the mandragora  ☎  14:29, October 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Due to wibbly-wobbly timey-whimey things, I believe they can be considered the same person, especially with the kitchen comment on the TARDIS (avoiding a "spoiler" for those who haven't watched it yet), and the headstone (Clara Oswin Oswald). Thor214 ☎  02:02, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

6 or N/A?
Quite possibly the most silly, semantic question to ask, but... should we be listing the midseason Christmas special as Episode 6, or "N/A"? (And likewise, the spring premiere as 7 or 6, etc.) d ● • ·  14:57, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * since the christmas special introduces a new regular companion, and therefore is obviously part of the main narrative flow of the series, i personally think it makes more sense to call it '6', and the spring premiere '7'. The Colclough ☎  17:48, November 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Christmas Invasion was the Tenth Doctor's first full story and also had narrative significance, but it still counts as a special and has no number. ProtoKun7 ☎  16:52, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Christmas specials are not part of the overall series; that's why they're called specials. Duh. There's no reason to consider the Christmas special episode 6, rather then just N/A or X. -- Bold  Clone  19:27, November 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * Except this one IS part of the overall series. Last Centurion  15:08, April 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * Did you do the whole convoluted editing thing just to get color formatting on your signature? Thor214 ☎  14:10, April 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * FWIW Wikipedia lists it as 6, and then BoSJ as 7 and so on. Either they have solid sources or they haven't thought it over :) But it IS Wikipedia... AilaG ☎  15:32, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Great Detective
Just wondering why The Great Detective has been removed from the list of Mini-Episodes? When introducing it, Matt Smith himself called it a Minisode (apparently that's what they're called now)? Geek Mythology ☎  23:02, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * All episodes are in order of air date. It has just been moved to after 'Autumn half' and before' Christmas special'. It is still under the heading 'mini-episodes'. MM/ Want to talk? 23:12, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, just seen that, and I understand having them in order of broadcast, but have to admit that all the different sections does seem to make it a bit crowded and untidy. Well, thats my opinion anyway. Geek Mythology ☎  23:17, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Length of the Christmas Special in "Overview"
Now that we know how long the Christmas Special is, "although it is believed that the Christmas Special will be sixty minutes" can be changed to "although the Christmas Special is 60 minutes. Thor214 ☎  01:54, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

Rumours
I don't really see why "rumours" need sources. In fact, the Mirriam Webster definition of a rumour is: "talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source." I think we should either be a bit looser on the rules of what can go into Rumours, or change/remove the section. If we decide to change the section, that means that it might contain similar information but will only include unreleased information that has been confirmed, which is a bit boring. I vote the rumours section actually becomes a rumours section and we include whatever the people thinkas a whole, no matter how ridiculous the rumours are. People do get a spoiler alert message for this page, right? So this should be the one page where we can put spoilers and rumours of all kinds (but only in the spoiler section of course - sort of like how we can put out-of-universe information in the Behind the Scenes section). Is there any way we can cover the rumours section so that people have to do some sort of action to view it? Like maybe making the text white and telling them to highlight it to view it. That way people who don't like spoilers don't have to see them. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎  18:30, December 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Spoilers are considered (for the purpose of this wiki) things that have not yet occurred. There are no spoiler alerts so far as I am aware of because this is a fact-based wiki rather than a speculative wiki. There are plenty of sites for rumours and spoilers as this wiki defines them. Keep factual data here. Most rumours also lack proper sources, and as such, are unfit for inclusion in this wiki. Thor214 ☎  23:38, December 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * So why is there a spoiler section? SmallerOnTheOutside ☎  23:41, December 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * I have no clue. Here is a warning about spoilers on this wiki -   "Spoilers aren't cool. We have a strict definition of "spoiler" that you may find a bit unusual. Basically, a spoiler, to us, is anything that comes from a story which has not been released yet. So, even if you've got some info from a BBC press release or official trailer, it basically can't be referenced here. In other words, you gotta wait until the episode has finished its premiere broadcast to start editing about its contents. Please check the spoiler policy for more details." Thor214  ☎  23:45, December 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * And that is just why I'm addressing this issue. We have a strict no-spoiler policy but yet we have a section dedicated to rumours and spoilers. Either the rumour section should be deleted (you will be deleted) or we make it the only place where spoilers are allowed. As I understand it, it does seem that, according to TARDIS policy, there shouldn't be a rumours section at all. But we should wait for someone else's opinion. Preferably an administrator. Or at least someone who's been editing for over 2 weeks. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎  23:55, December 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree the issue needs to be discussed, as it contradicts itself on this wiki.Thor214 ☎  23:57, December 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * This covers everything, and it appears these things are allowed on Series pages. http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Tardis:Spoiler_policy Thor214 ☎  00:05, December 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, also, this entire page is littered with spoilers by TARDIS's definition. You may noticed that the first time you open this page, it warns you that there may be spoilers and you get to choose whether to continue or not. That does seem like a good indicator that spoilers are allowed on this page. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎  23:55, December 30, 2012 (UTC)

Special is Episode 6, not N/A
Although past Christmas specials have not been officially part of any season, Doctor Who Magazine, and a number of Moffat interviews, have stated that this year Series 7 has 14 episodes, and that the Christmas special is considered episode 6. The change should be made. 70.72.211.35talk to me 01:35, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Phantom of the Hex
There have been some conflicting information about Phantom of the Hex being the first Doctor Who episode for Series 7 Part 2. However, this story has been written by Neil Cross, and the writers list has been clarified as Steven Moffat writing the first episode, maybe the writer on the BBC America website got it wrong. Maybe he meant the first to be filmed? Cyruptsaram ☎  08:25, January 22, 2013 (UTC)

Valid sources?
Are hypable.com and themusic.com valid sources for series 7 information? Shambala108 ☎  04:17, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * No. MM/ Want to talk? 09:51, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Grant returning?
This BBC America page strongly suggests that Richard E Grant is returning for 7B. Possible casting note item? 70.64.34.140talk to me 16:02, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd say no, as it's propably referring to the Christmas special. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:58, March 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * However,this is Doctor Who, so you never know. I would imagine if Grant is going to return (maybe for a flashback or some timey-wimey scenario) we'll know within the next few weeks. 70.72.211.35talk to me 14:04, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * And, as Bells of Saint John reveals, the information re: Grant returning in at least the one additional episode is indeed correct. 70.72.211.35talk to me 22:57, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Let the debate begin!
So, have at 'er - do we include One Born Every Minute (the comedy minisode crossover with Call the Midwife that aired last night on Comic Relief), or not? Unlike the Space and Time minisodes of 2011, there's no real way to see OBEM as canon, even though it features Smith. It falls closer to Curse of Fatal Death territory... but it was a filmed production. Hmm... 70.72.211.35talk to me 14:04, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not even that really. It's more like Merry Christmas Doctor Who, really. It breaks the fourth wall, makes fun of the shows it's showing, and Doctor Who barely appears. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 14:23, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * It reminds me of the National Television Awards Sketch 2011; it features the Doctor, but I doubt it was intended to be canon. -- Bold  Clone  23:39, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt that it isn't canon, but the way some folks are carrying on about the Doctor's behavior in the clip, you'd think they'd just made Genesis of the Daleks II! 70.72.211.35talk to me 15:03, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

Episode title sourcing
Just a note the source given for the episode titles Rings of Akhaten and Cold War show nothing of the sort, just the posters for St John and Hide. This may need to be updated if this information has not been confirmed elsewhere. The BBC only just this morning confirmed "Hide" via its Twitter feed. Not disputing the information, only that the cited source isn't showing it anymore so you might want to use a different one. I'm expecting a complete list (save perhaps the finale) will probably be put out by Radio Times or the BBC in the next few days. 70.72.211.35talk to me 15:03, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * The BBC has now officially confirmed the titles, according to Blogtor Who. I'll let someone else dig up the appropriate source. 70.72.211.35talk to me 02:48, March 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Speaking of Cold War, surely that backwards R is just stylistic choice on the logo on the poster, and the episode name is actually Cold War, with a normal R?
 * And sure enough, DWM 459 confirms that I was right.

Non-BBC-sanctioned video interviews
Mini-mitch got rid of some information regarding 7B monsters, claiming that we "really should only link to the BBC Youtube channel." However, our very own T:VALID states the following: "A good rule of thumb is that interviews with Doctor Who production figures are of equal weight, regardless of the "professional" status of the interviewer, so long as it can be reasonably established that the person being interviewed is actually whom they purport to be."

- T:VALID

It can obviously be reasonably established that the interviewee of this video is Steven Moffat, as he looks like him, sounds like him, acts like him, and, well, is him! I will re-enter the information if no one objects within the next few days. --SOTO ☎ 23:54, March 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I should have been clearer, which now I realise I was not. I think it is better to use BBC YouTube videos only and in this case, there are probably better sources out there which can be used. Sorry for not be too clear, which I should have been! :) MM/ Want to talk? 12:11, March 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * A reliable source is a reliable source. I don't think a better one exists is a very good reason to remove info.
 * The episode titles (all but 1) have been announced by Radio Times and artwork has been released. Surely that's reliable? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 12:47, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

2011 Christmas episode
The introduction to the article needs to include a reference to the Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe, otherwise it looks like an error for the lead to say Series 7 began in September 2012, yet then we see the 2011 Christmas special listed. At the very least there should be something to indicate that it's included here for lack of anywhere else to put it. It's looking increasingly as if TDTWTW will not be included in any of the Series 7 DVD/Blu-ray sets, rendering it a true stand-alone. Given how long a gap there was between it and the start of 7A proper, I wonder if it shouldn't be moved -- for the sake of listing convenience -- to the Series 6 article as a coda to that season rather than have it here? 70.72.211.35talk to me 22:59, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Guest cast list addition
Since Jenna-Louise Coleman is listed a second time for "Oswin Oswald", she should therefore be listed a third time for "Clara Oswin Oswald" in Snowmen. The "Clara Oswald" she's playing now has already stated on screen (in Bells of Saint John) that Oswin is not part of her name, so that makes her a different character. 70.72.211.35talk to me 23:03, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

DVD episode list
Someone rolled back too far when protecting the page and as a result the links for Crimson Horror and Nightmare in Silver in the DVD list under Adaptations and Merchandising are gone. Please reinsert them, admins.

Cybermen vs. Cybermen vs. Cybermen
For Nightmare in Silver (TV story), there is a notation "Reintroduction of the Mondasian Cybermen." Is this true? I thought that subject was still being debated since there were some Cybus Cybermen in the episode, too. Should it just be "Cybermen" and leave it at that? Badwolff ☎  20:09, May 15, 2013 (UTC)