User talk:BananaClownMan

RE: Checking In
Hi. I am doing okay, thank you for asking. I never really went out much anyway to be honest, so the only real difference is the no work shifts, which really sucks but there's nothing much I can do about that. How are you going? LauraBatham ☎  10:06, April 16, 2020 (UTC)


 * It's no trouble at all, we all make typos every now and then. Plus it gives me edits towards my badges which I'm not going to complain about.


 * That's good that you are still getting paid. I'm only casual and up until a few days ago work was still open (it's had to close for two weeks due to a recent outbreak in my area), so I'm getting zilch. LauraBatham ☎  10:25, April 16, 2020 (UTC)


 * Aw thank you very much. I hope all goes well for you too. Yes I did see it and yeah, I cried too. Especially during Rani's little speech. I love that the DW writers and actors are finding a way to give us all these little stories during these uncertain times. LauraBatham ☎  01:04, April 26, 2020 (UTC)

Re:Check on
Hey BananClownMan! That's rather thoughtful of you to check in with me, especially since my activity here has been pretty minimal the past few weeks ahah. I'm doing well. Like most, I'm working from home given the isolation and all but in the internet-age, that doesn't massively change how I work; just louder with family around I suppose and less checking in face-to-face with my colleagues :). How's things going on with you? All well I hope? ^_^ Snivy   ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦   12:21, April 16, 2020 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear you're able to pay your rent! :D


 * I agree, the weekends are a difficulty. I too have taken to revisiting Doctor Who as a great leisure during Lockdown. I might even take to watching all the Classic Who episodes I've yet to watch. ^_^


 * The 'watch alongs' are a joy to watch. While I've not seen all of Sarah Jane's travels with the Third and Fourth Doctor, having watched all of her NewWho adventures outside audio dramas, it was certainly an emotional listen. Really is great the Who team are making all these videos, despite separation in isolation. If only I could convince my family to watch them with me ;) Snivy   ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦   14:36, April 26, 2020 (UTC)

Re: Check On
Thanks for asking! It's not been too bad for me - my uni's been continuing online, which pretty much just saves me the bus/ferry fee. So apart from missing the hands-on labs, it's been pretty normal. It must be hard for those affected by the disease, though, either directly or through the loss of an income source. Hope you're doing alright, yourself. Danochy ☎  21:54, April 16, 2020 (UTC)

Fifth Doctor edits
Hi, why did you remove the "Travels with Brooke and River Song" section from Fifth Doctor? At least from a first glance, I can see no policies broken there - apart from a bit of formatting needed - but nothing worthy of total removal. OncomingStorm12th (talk) 17:38, April 17, 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh, of course :p. I didn't see the time of your edits, sorry. OncomingStorm12th (talk) 17:55, April 17, 2020 (UTC)

Theory:Timeline - Shoreditch Help
Hey there, I was wondering if I could get your help with something: Currently the only timeline article that keeps track of the events of the series Class is Theory:Timeline - Shoreditch. While the single season of the television show and the novels that came out at around the same time are placed within the article, the audio dramas are not. Initially I wasn't too concerned about this since Big Finish only released two volumes with a total of six stories, and I was doubtful that they would release more. Well, turns out they did, so now we have twelve unplaced Class audio stories. I have not had a chance to listen to these stories myself, and I'm not sure if you have either. All I know for sure is that all of them seem to take place before the events of the series finale. Maybe you could offer some additional insight or might no someone who can? I'd appreciate the help! –Nahald ☎

Timeline discussions
Hi, I hope you're still doing well, especially with all these new Doctor Who webcasts and short stories to help us through the lockdown. Just letting you know that I've finally gotten around to giving some responses on Theory talk:Timey-wimey detector and Theory talk:Timeline - Second Doctor. I hope you can find the time to read and respond to my suggestions over there. Danochy ☎  06:04, May 11, 2020 (UTC)

Re: Check in
I’m so sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner. That was very thoughtful of you to ask. I saw it when you posted and made a mental note to get make to you but then as you can imagine Time got away from me and I kept telling myself I needed to respond until wham, it’s suddenly well over a month since you got in touch. So sorry again for that. But um, yeah I’m pretty much fine thank you for asking. Getting on with things. I hope you’re doing well also. SarahJaneFan ☎  21:35, May 13, 2020 (UTC)

Seventh Doctor Timeline Talk
So I just left a message in the Seventh Doctor's Timeline Talk Page and I would appreciate it if you could have a look and get back to me with your thoughts if you have the time. It’s quite overly long and might need a bit of thinking and processing so just take your time if you are interested. Thanks. SarahJaneFan ☎  21:35, May 13, 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi, they're not my ideas, but these potential changes at 7's timeline are certainly something to consider. Since it's now been three months since the proposal was made, I was wondering whether you'd be able to give your thoughts, whenever you have the time. Cheers, Danochy ☎  21:16, August 28, 2020 (UTC)


 * It's good to hear life is opening up around the world - just a shame it's because government's failed to get rid of the virus, rather than the lack of it. But don't worry, Life always comes before the wiki, and sometimes you just need to be in the right frame of mind to write a reply. It's the same for all of us :-)


 * On the topic of the timeline, the proposal isn't to place the audios before the novels, it was to not make a judgement call at all, instead going with the in-universe evidence from the Gallifrey series regarding the tampering done by Braxiatel. I suggest you look at the TLDR section and proposal section to get a good idea of what SJF is proposing. Danochy ☎  04:45, August 31, 2020 (UTC)

Italics
Hi! Just popping in to point out that User:Shambala108, on an otherwise-unrelated thread, has confirmed my interpretation that Tardis:Italics allows the use of italics for emphasis. "(…) And Tardis:Bold text and Tardis:Italics allow for different ways to emphasize your points. Stop using all-caps."

- Thread:273268

No one's forcing you to use them in your own contributions, but it's not against Wiki policy to do so, and thus there is no point in removing them as you have been doing.

Even if you should persist, I'd also like to repeat a query I've made in edit rationales there: if you think the italics are a bad way to express the emphasis, that's one thing, but why do you remove said rhetorical device altogether more often than not, instead of replacing the italics with some other means of putting emphasis on a specific word? --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  09:40, May 22, 2020 (UTC)

Problematic edits!
some of your recent edits are problematic, you seem to be pushing ahead with your own opinion rather than starting a discussion. you removed Rosie Taylor from Ninth Doctor companions and put her in the "non-DWU companions" category, despite the fact that the story she appeared in is still considered valid by this wikia. you then removed Rigsy from the Twelfth Doctor companion category - despite him still appearing on the template. DiSoRiEnTeD1 ☎
 * once again you make the edits. Rigsy is on the companion template so you cannot simply remove him from the category without a discussion. and Voice from the Vortex! (short story) is not tagged as invalid whatsoever? DiSoRiEnTeD1 ☎

The Unnamed Doctor
Hey, I noticed you added The Unnamed Doctor to the Eleventh Doctor's timeline a while back, and I'm just wondering where it's from. I checked across the wiki and couldn't find it anywhere, so it would be good to get a page created for it. Danochy ☎  02:38, May 27, 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks. I don't have access to that unfortunately, but good to know regardless. Danochy ☎  10:50, May 28, 2020 (UTC)

River Song and Jack Harkness
Hey pal, hope you're well. I was checking River Song's contribution history and it appears you added on that (and Jack Harkness's) article that the pair are married in their infoboxes. What source is this from? Sounds like it would be cool to check out if these two actually hooked up :D Snivy   <font face="Cambria"><font color="Grey">✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦   13:20, June 4, 2020 (UTC)

Pretty sweet, thanks for pointing me in the right direction :). Does that not then mean it should be included on their pages somewhere? <font face="Georgia"><font color="#1E90FF">Snivy <font face="Arial">  <small style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; "><font face="Cambria"><font color="Grey">✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦   13:47, June 4, 2020 (UTC)

Reply: Eighth Doctor talk
So I’ve read the thread and honestly I find the whole thing incredibly unconvincing and worse, based mostly on misconceptions.

To start with the Grace scenario, I believe it would be fair enough to say that the “months” comment could be a reference to either the movie or The Fallen as in both the Doctor meddles with Grace's future. In the former by setting her down the wrong path with his hints and teases and in the latter by setting her back on the right path that she would’ve been on before his intervention.

However, the problem here is that it’s not just the one comment. The “months” comment is actually just a recap of an earlier discussion that the Doctor and the Master have in the story, where the Master actually clarifies that the “future warping” he was talking about is the events of the TV Movie and he actually orchestrated the Doctor’s meeting with Grace in The Fallen so that the Doctor could see the results of his meddling. So it would be a little bit bizarre if the Master tells the Doctor that he orchestrated that reunion to teach him a lesson about the meddling from the TV Movie (and then not mention any meddling from the Fallen because really it’s minimal and just a case of the Doctor clarifying to Grace that actually no her destiny isn’t to discover regeneration for humans) and then suddenly later recap the Doctor meddling in The Fallen as one of the things that he believes the Doctor has been doing wrong. I’ll leave quotes below, but you’ll have to trust me that they’re word for word what printed in the comics.

""I saw an ideal opportunity to teach you a vital lesson. I directed you back to London, to witness the results of your casual tampering with a woman's destiny...From there I took you to Japan to see the disaster shaped by the Gaijin; creatures so similar to yourself...beings obsessed with obtaining knowledge at any price...And then to Trionikus, where blind luck alone saved you from murdering an innocent.""

""In the past few months alone you have warped the Holloway woman's future, shattered Sato's honour and attempted to murder the benevolent Kroton.""

The other point brought up is to do with the Master and his status in regards to the TARDIS. Now they try to make an argument in the thread that the TARDIS is purged of the Master's influence at the end of The Glorious Dead therefore it has to come after the novels. This is basically complete rubbish and I’ll explain why.

In the comics, he’s established as having passed straight through the Eye of Harmony and into the Time Vortex where he’s rescued by Esterath. It’s then established that his symbiotic nuclei became merged with the TARDIS, resulting in him having power over it. However he physically resides in the human body Esterath placed him in, its just that his symbiotic nuclei infected the TARDIS’ systems rather than a copy of him actually being present in the TARDIS.

In the BBC books line however, the Master is trapped within the Eye of Harmony at its singularity. He communicates with the Doctor through mirrors a few times throughout the run but he’s shown to have no real influence over the TARDIS. The Gallifrey Chronicles actually establishes that the Master is effectively a god within the Eye of Harmony but he has no way out and his powers don’t really effect the outside world. He uses all of his power to trigger a cold fusion device, knowing that the Doctor would allow it to detonate in the TARDIS as the explosion would be absorbed by the Eye. All this really did was damage the interior and bit and destroy some of the Doctor’s possessions. So that pretty much shows how powerless the Master is. He uses pretty much all the power he has to perform a petty act of what he refers to as revenge that doesn’t even really do anything beyond hurt the TARDIS and destroy some of the Doctor’s possessions. And the Master knows this, it’s not even as if he was expecting more damage to be done. So the Doctor just closes the Eye of Harmony and leaves the Master there still trapped, presumably until he escapes in Forgotten.

So I hope you can kind of see the distinction here. If the books overlapped with the influence the Master’s develops over the TARDIS in the comics, then he’d have a lot more power over it in the books too. In the comics, effectively his DNA infects the TARDIS systems allowing him to direct and control it, whereas in the books he is just trapped in the Eye of Harmony with little influence over anything.

From my perspective I’m really struggling to see any degree of a strong argument for placing the Comics so late in the Eighth Doctor’s life, compared ample if not perfect evidence suggesting that they should be earlier on in his life. You can always fudge things however you want to, obviously in the end we always find a way to make accounts work with each other but in this case I just don’t see why there would be any benefit to putting the comics after the novels. And I say that as someone who would really rather the comics go after the novels but after extensive research I just can’t see the comics sitting comfortingly so late. SarahJaneFan ☎  21:17, June 26, 2020 (UTC)

The only reference I could track down in the novel was that the Doctor makes a comment about having tried to appeal to the Daleks better nature once, but didn’t think that it worked. I even looked through the continuity notes on other sites and that line was the only thing I could find with any slight link to Evil of the Daleks.

It’s an incredibly vague comment but he’s presumably referring to the fact that he tried to teach the Human Factor Daleks but they ended up turning on the other Daleks and a war broke out with the Doctor assuming they died.

In Children of the Revolution, the Doctor discovers that they survived and started their own society, but they end up committing suicide by the end anyway. Really the outcome is the same for the Doctor, he encounters good Daleks and thinks they’re destroyed the first time, but he later discovers that they haven’t been but then they are destroyed for real the second time. Either way it’s a failed experiment at appealing to the Daleks better nature because the evil Daleks are the only ones to survive these encounters.

And like, as I said it’s incredibly vague. There’s no mention of Evil of the Daleks or the Human Factor Daleks?, it’s literally just this so you can see why I didn’t think the continuity note saying that “The Doctor knows the fate of the human factor Daleks” doesn’t really fly.

""Sam shuddered. The Doctor was really getting himself worked up. "There’s no appealing to their better nature, then?" "I tried that once," he admitted. "I don’t think it worked.""

Basically I’d argue that this line makes just as much sense coming after Children of the Revolution, as it does coming after Evil of the Daleks. And even then it’s still an incredibly vague reference. SarahJaneFan ☎  10:31, June 27, 2020 (UTC)

stop just stop
why dodo keep getting rid of a stitch in time from the doctor when its canon and it happened just stop. A stitch in time 2 ☎  12:38, July 4, 2020 (UTC)

Master edit
Hi, can I ask the reason behind this edit? is a template that is supposed to identify where an article is missing info and, as such, is extremely helpful. Thanks in advance, --Borisashton ☎  23:19, July 31, 2020 (UTC)
 * I see. Would you be bothered too much if I added them back? Cutting down on existing info is one thing but I think actively obscuring appearances not yet covered as part of this effort is detrimental to the wiki's goal to be a comprehensive encyclopedia and could be seen as a T:NPOV violation. Even just the template's acknowledgement that a story happened in that part of the timeline is better than nothing.


 * All in all, I commend your efforts but I don't think completely omitting info is the way to go to solve the Special:Longpages problem. The article is no longer the longest, at least. To comply with that request, more than half the article still needs to be expunged and the Master is currently a recurring character in the television series and multiple spin-offs. It will keep getting longer whether we like it or not so there's no need to favour the new releases to the ones not yet covered. Try to cover every story as consicely as possible is what I'm saying, I guess. --Borisashton ☎  23:28, August 1, 2020 (UTC)

Re: error
Hi I don't know for sure how this works, but I can tell you what I've seen User:CzechOut post to others who have asked similar questions in the past.

Basically the wiki (and I presume all wikis) work on GMT, so if you are in a different time zone, it's possible to think you are making an edit on one day when the wiki considers it another day. If this doesn't sound like it answers your question, you can try asking User:CzechOut. Shambala108 ☎  22:12, August 14, 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry to jump in, but I believe I know the answer to this one. I see you live in Buckingham. The wiki actually works on UTC which is usually the same time as Britain but we are in British Summer Time at the moment and will be until October. BST is an hour ahead of UTC so your contributions on 10 August at 00:30 BST instead registered as 23:30 on 9 August meaning you didn't technically edit on the tenth and thus lost your progress. --Borisashton ☎  22:31, August 14, 2020 (UTC)
 * Tricked out by time on this wiki. How ironic. - BananaClownMan ☎  22:33, August 14, 2020 (UTC)

Small timeline reservation
Hi, I have a small issue with the timeline layout concerning the "awaiting placement" and "currently unplaced" sections. These sections are incredibly similar in their explanation for what they're for:

Currently unplaced
 * These entries are placed here due to being part of an ongoing storyline that has yet to offer sufficient enough evidence to be placed in a specific part of this Doctor's timeline.

Awaiting placement
 * These entries are placed here until evidence presents itself that provides a clue as to where they happen in relation to other entries. Some of these are part of ongoing storylines that could present evidence towards the end of the plot.

The main issue is that the "Awaiting placement" section also allows ongoing storylines, when that's the explicit role of the "currently unplaced" section. I'd suggest we rewrite both of them to make them clearer, though, something along these lines:

Currently unplaced
 * These entries are part of an ongoing storyline and are placed here until further evidence arises in the stories to come.

Awaiting placement
 * These entries are placed here until a suitable position in the timeline can be determined based on the available evidence.

These are more to-the-point than the originals, and more clearly define what each section should be for. It also makes it clear that the first section is about waiting for time while the second one is about waiting for effort on the editor's part. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Danochy ☎  01:13, August 21, 2020 (UTC)

Sweet, I'll get right to it :-) Danochy ☎  11:21, August 21, 2020 (UTC)

Template:McKee
Hey, follow up to our conversation here. I'm still not 100% sure what to do about it, but feel like since you made it I should probably pawn the problem off to you before making a forum thread or anything. Najawin ☎  01:07, August 23, 2020 (UTC)
 * Eh, fair enough. Najawin ☎  17:02, August 23, 2020 (UTC)
 * Just FYI, I noticed that Shambala deleted it after our conversation here. So it's currently a dead template. Najawin ☎  05:06, September 29, 2020 (UTC)

Supremacy of the Cybermen main enemy
Hi, I noticed that you changed the main enemy on Supremacy of the Cybermen (comic story) back to Cyber-Controller (Supremacy of the Cybermen) and I was wondering if I've missed something, because I've seen on numerous pages that the "main enemy" of several Cybermen stories have been individual Cyber-Leaders or Cyber-Controllers, which, to me, feels somewhat strange as it means that for most Cybermen stories, the Cybermen themselves aren't labelled as the main enemies. In terms of Supremacy of the Cybermen, I thought Rassilon and the Cybermen were more appropriate for the main enemies as Rassilon is a central antagonist until the end, whereas the Cyber-Controller only shows up at the end, plus the Cybermen are major villains everywhere else. It seems quite bizarre to just list the Cyber-Controller as the main enemy.CyberFoundries900 ☎  12:17, September 27, 2020 (UTC)

The Doctor (Battlefield)
Concerning your merge tag on The Doctor (Alien Bodies): in which story is the Battlefield Doctor suggested to be the Doctor's final incarnation? I read through all his stories a while back when rewriting his page, and that never stood out to me. – N8  ( ☎ / 👁️ ) 04:59, September 28, 2020 (UTC)

Redirects to sandboxes
Hi, just letting you know that when you search for a Doctor (e.g. type in "Tenth Doctor" in the search bar) your sandbox page is recommended in the drop down thing, thanks to the redirect pages you've created. Now I'm not sure if there are any rules on the matter, but it's really not ideal to have sandbox pages to be so visible to visitors to this site. Just thought I'd talk to you first, so you can either take this matter into your own hands or make your argument as to why they should be kept. All the best, Danochy ☎  21:21, September 28, 2020 (UTC)


 * I have no problem at all with your sandboxes existing, and I'm sure they will remain a valuable resource if those articles are stripped down, I just don't think sandboxes (of any kind) should be popping up in the search results. Danochy ☎  21:38, September 28, 2020 (UTC)


 * User:Danochy is right to point this out. When you named your sandboxes "something Doctor (BCM)", you unintentionally implied (based on the naming policies of this wiki) that there is a story called BCM that the Dcotors appeared in. Also, when you created the redirects, you left the incorrect names intact, creating the problem mentioned by Danochy above. In the future, 1. tell an admin if you need something deleted and 2. don't name your sandboxes anything except what is already accepted as stated at Tardis:User pages thanks Shambala108 ☎  02:15, September 29, 2020 (UTC)

T:BOUND and the Dalek Thread
Hey, I'm glad you agree with my arguments and all, but that thread has yet to be closed. On paper, you are in egregious breach of Tardis:You are bound by current policy with your edits to Black Dalek Leader and suchlike. I don't actually think these edits need to be reverted at this point because that thread is moving towards a clear resolution, but… still.

So, consider this a serious warning. I'd hate to have to make you the first person I have to block, as an admin here at Tardis. And that's not a passive-aggressive thread, that's an absolutely genuine sentiment. You are in most respect a great and productive editors! But you must follow the rules in these matters. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  15:35, October 2, 2020 (UTC)

Plagiarism & block
…Well, my message above stands at testament that I didn't want it to come to this, but you are now blocked for a period of one month.

On top of the already egregious T:BOUND breaches detailed above, you have ported the contents of User:NateBumber's sandbox over to Mark Seven wholesale, without giving attribution. Not only is this a failure of T:BOUND because no admin decision had been made on whether to merge, but, more importantly, this falls squarely under the umbrella of T:THEFT.

This is a policy that absolutely must be respected at all times and I find it hard to believe (albeit not impossible) that an experienced editor like you didn't know about it. In any event, and with your having a well-furnished history of blocks in the past, I have no choice but to give you that block and tell you to please heed this warning and not edit so recklessly again.

You are of course free to present an apology/explanation on my talk page on another Wiki; Community Central is traditional.

With no ill feelings, --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  17:31, October 2, 2020 (UTC)

Curator timeline
Hey, might I enquire as to why you moved around Dr Black and Canaries in the Curator's biography? With timeline-theorising banned in the main namespace, usual practice is to stick with release order unless there are obvious reasons not to, in such matters. So if you have some obvious reasons I should like to know them, as I certainly didn't spot them upon reading either of these stories.

Oh, and, no hard feelings about the block, by the by, I hope? I'm glad to see you back with us. I'm terribly sorry I didn't reply to your message on my wall on the $crooge McDuck Wiki; it turns out I no longer get notifications from messages on my talk page in the UCP, or at least not in the same way I used to. Also, in my defence, I had advised you contact me on Community Central in this instance, in my blocking message — not on $MW.

Mind you, I don't think you were asking for a reduction of the ban per se, reading it now? And with T:THEFT I wouldn't have had much latitude to do so. So I don't suppose it materially changed anything. Still, this could all have been handled better; sorry there. I'm at least glad you understand what you did wrong with regards to T:THEFT, and that you will refamiliarise yourself (or, by now, have done so) with T:BOUND. Let us hope neither of us is ever put in that situation again, eh?

I await your replies on both points most eagerly. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  22:23, November 2, 2020 (UTC)
 * This rule is the reason we've got the Theory:Timeline namespace. Time was, timelines were part of the main namespace, and, where available, story pages would include our "best guesses" as to which stories took place before and after. This got too confusing and speculative for our liking, so we shunted the whole thing off to a side-namespace that's not counted as "part of the Wiki", but is more like one big collaborative sandbox.


 * More generally, endless arguments about timelines and chronology often turn into edit wars, so that's another good reason to avoid them.


 * A good test-case is the order Season 26 stories go in on Seventh Doctor and Ace: there are convincing, but ultimately esoteric, pieces of evidence towards the original authorially-intended production order, rather than the broadcast order, being the correct in-universe timeline of events. But they were just too thin and vaporous for us to quite agree on them, so we stuck with our presumption to list TV stories by broadcast order, even so.


 * …Oh, also, the issue wasn't that you magpied another user's sandbox without their permission, per se. Permission would have been preferred, but that's not the main issue. The main issue is that you didn't give the user credit in your edit summary. (And there's a further issue, which is that the sandbox was itself an amalgam of work already done by other users on the various pages that were to be merged; consequently all those editors "should" also have been credited in the edit summary, if you were doing the merge manually rather than by merging page histories.) --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  23:00, November 2, 2020 (UTC)

Re: Apology
Oh, thank you for such a nice apology! It didn't bother me too much, and I didn't mean for you to get banned when I pointed it out for attribution's sake. Your apology was unexpected but very much appreciated, and it more than makes up for it. I hope you're well, and I look forward to editing with you again! – N8  ( ☎ / 👁️ ) 00:42, November 3, 2020 (UTC)