Talk:Twelfth Doctor

Redirect question
Does this mean the redirection will be put back upSinefirt talk to me 14:34, December 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * No. The article was supposition and any information contained was better covered elsewhere. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:43, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

But what about the redirection: Ya'know the thing where you type in "Twelfth Doctor" and it's redirected to The Doctor#The Doctor's incarnations.Sinefirt talk to me 10:57, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Suggested additions
Now that the casting of Capaldi as the Twelfth Doctor is fair game, the behind the scenes section should be added to explain how his initial appearance was successfully kept secret (and in fact mirrors the pre-introduction of Clara). If it's been revealed when he filmed it, that should be added too. Both bits of info can be put in without violating spoiler policy re: the Christmas special. 68.146.70.124talk to me 04:15, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Can we add his image from The Day of The Doctor? I got this screenshot which would work fine. (link removed per site policy) Thor214 ☎  23:52, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, it wouldn't work. It violates several policies, and it's off-site, which we don't allow. Please read our image policies at Tardis:Image use policy, Tardis:Guide to images, Help:Image cheat card and Tardis:Images and perspective. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎  01:23, November 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I should have been clearer. I was asking for someone to do the formatting for me since I was unfamiliar with the image rules here, which seem to contradict themselves in minor ways throughout the site after taking a look at them now. Here is a 300px wide screenshot from the episode, but I am having trouble trying to change the file name, and am not sure if it matters. http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vlcsnap-2013-11-26-18h43m44s136.jpg Are there any other requirements for this? I added the proper license (BBC owned screenshot license and all that jazz). My apologies if I am pestering you. I perused the links you posted, but some of it is admittedly confusing. It's been a while since I added an image here. - Thor214 ☎  02:39, November 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * The image rules don't contradict each other; the issue is that so many people don't know the rules, and only admins can delete images so it's a tough job to keep up with. The image you mention above of Capaldi seems to be ok except that the name needs to be more clear. The current name tells absolutely nothing about the image. Shambala108 ☎  03:00, November 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * I just asked how to change the image name. I could not find how for the life of me. Thor214 ☎  05:45, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * That would be because non-admins cannot move files. Special:ListGroupRights (movefile). Shambala, could you rename the file to something like File:TwelfthDoctorTDOTD? --SOTO ☎ 05:56, November 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Amazing how after all that, an admin decided to use an image that does not conform to the image guidelines immediately after I was tersely quoted the rules here... "Total file size - Ordinary screenshots should never be more than 100kb; most are completely fine at 20-40kb." The image linked to in the infobox is 7 times that size, and the infobox scale down is STILL over 100kb. Why did I just waste time conforming my image to the rules when we can decide to use any old non conforming image? I don't WANT to be a dick here, but this is rather frustrating and does not encourage user submissions when approached like this. I'd be happy if someone else's image were used, assuming it followed the guidelines that I was just told were clear as day. Thor214 ☎  15:35, November 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey everyone :) Bit of confusion here, so lemme clarify some points.  First, Thor here encountered the changed environment of the VisualEditor.  Unfortunately, it's temporarily possible to upload stuff and bypass our warnings.  I don't have a good way to fix that yet, since the VisualEditor is in deep beta. So Thor's confusion was completely understandable. Equally, Shamabala's terse explanations would be more understandable in the usual uploading environment.  We as admin have a right to expect that people are reading big signs with large letters. But, unbeknownst to Shambala and SOTO, those big signs with large letters aren't there for people using the VE. It's important to remember that admin are just as baffled by the vagaries of the new VE as are users, so confusion will occasionally arise.


 * One of the main questions asked here was simply about how to change the filename. We have an easy way to do that.  Just use .  This will put the article into Category:Files that need to be renamed, and admin will then be alerted to the need to move it to a better name. (Non-admin can't move files.)


 * Finally, a little clarity on this statement: "...an admin decided to use an image does not conform to the image guidelines". Admin didn't place a policy violating image on the page; rather I deleted a bad image and substituted the current, policy-compliant one. But don't worry about that; page histories are sometimes hard to read. There's been a compliant image there since 25 November.  04:44: Fri 13 Dec 2013


 * Thank you CzechOut for the rather kind response to my irate post and the follow up on my talk page. You effectively covered everything and accurately predicted unmentioned issues I was experiencing without laying blame, which is refreshing. For those who may be visiting this talk page as one of your first talk pages, this is how admins should ideally act. I thought I remembered the image use guidelines to be much more accessible when I uploaded the image of Cpt. Jack's desk from Torchwood with the TARDIS coral on it, but it had been quite a while since then. In retrospect, Shambala's reply would have been completely acceptable were the editor in the environment you described. Have a good day, all. Thor214 ☎  19:13, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Image problem
Not sure if this is now to leave a message, but it seems to be the only way. Usually there's a 'leave a message' button at the top. The image of Twelve could use some fixing, since its horribly stretched. I don't know how to do it, so I'll leave it up to someone that does. Near-sighted Jedi ☎  00:48, February 14, 2014 (UTC)


 * There is nothing wrong with the image of 12. Thor214 ☎  00:52, February 14, 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with Thor214, there's nothing wrong with the image's dimensions. It may be a problem with your browser? Shambala108 ☎  01:07, February 14, 2014 (UTC)

Is he 12?
Is he truly Twelve? The Time Lords noted that all 13 Doctors were there, and after noting 13, we saw Capaldi's Doctor. further, with the acceptance of Hurt's Doctor, that would seem to imply that Hurt is now 9. Is this going to affect the conventions? I think it may be too early to definitely title this as The Twelfth Doctor just yet, it may be addressed at Christmas. RobbieNewton ☎  13:25, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
 * Addressing him as Thirteen is also a bit premature until we know more. You can visit Thread:145487 for information on how we're dealing with this for now. Shambala108 ☎  15:41, November 24, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks, thats an interesting way of dealing with it. RobbieNewton ☎  16:15, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Most fans aren't gonna just turn around call Tennant the 11th and Smith the 12th so it's better to just think of John Hurt as 'Doctor 8.5'. At least that's how i see it.Jedted ☎  05:30, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * According to Moffat & Co., the team (and even the scripts) continue to call Smith the Eleventh Doctor, and Capaldi the Twelfth. Unless he outright calls himself the "thirteenth Doctor", it's best to leave Hurt as his credited title of "War Doctor", and the numbering stays intact. d ●  ●   ●   01:19, November 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * The site naming conventions can be found here Thread:145998, regardless of what official sources say, as a standardised method for naming is important for mass changes later, should they be addressed (think Ctrl + F'ing the entire body of text on the site and replacing old numbers with new ones). - Thor214 ☎  02:43, November 27, 2013 (UTC)

Uhm...


 * Like the War Doctor, the Twelfth Doctor unusually debuted on television before his regeneration from his predecessor was screened.

Only partially true. Is "Night of the Doctor" assumed to be "screened"? - Even if so, the same applies to the Ninth Doctor. "Unusually" is getting a bit unusual, eh? Tuxman ☎  02:35, December 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * The War Doctor (or a timestream echo of him) also appeared in The Name of the Doctor before the Eighth Doctor was seen again. ProtoKun7 ☎  21:39, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

Doctor Who and the Curse of Fatal Death (1999)
Shouldn't there be something about "This article is about the twelfth incarnation of the Doctor from "The Day of the Doctor". For the Doctor Who and the Curse of Fatal Death character, see "Twelfth Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death)"? 108.236.90.188talk to me 23:48, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * The pages for Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh Doctors don't, so no.

Two Regenerations or Twelve?
When the eleventh was dying the time lords breached threw the crack in time and resumed his face changing cycle. Does this mean he can double his lives or was it just two more they added just so he can die at 13? --106.68.236.181talk to me 12:59, December 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * The actual answer is unknown, but precedent says that they tend to give full cycles of regeneration, a la the offer to The Master during The Five Doctors. The Regeneration article states that he was given a full cycle, so that talk page may be a more fruitful place to ask. Thor214  ☎  14:49, December 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Before assuming his new face, the Doctor calls it a "whole new regeneration cycle", so at least he clearly assumes this to be the case. 78.54.48.120talk to me 16:16, December 26, 2013 (UTC)

The Twelfth Doctor is the fourteenth incarnation, not the thirteenth
In The Time of the Doctor, the Eleventh Doctor confirmed to Clara that he is, in fact, the thirteenth incarnation because the Tenth's metacrisis regeneration was still a full one, in which he managed to keep his face out of vanity. He later calls the first of his new regeneration cycle "Regeneration Number Thirteen." Shouldn't we change the Twelfth Doctor's brief description at the beginning of the article to "fourteenth incarnation" to reflect this more accurately?

--SMBComix ☎  20:19, December 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Can the healed Tennant Doctor be considered a new incarnation? 13th regeneration, but also 13th face/actor. (numbers edited)
 * --Thor214 ☎  21:29, December 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * He clearly is considered such not just by the team behind the scenes but by the Doctor as well. The progression is now as follows: 1.) William Hartnell, First; 2.) Patrick Troughton, Second; 3.) Jon Pertwee, Third; 4.) Tom Baker, Fourth; 5.) Peter Davison, Fifth; 6.) Colin Baker, Sixth; 7.) Sylvester McCoy, Seventh; 8.) Paul McGann, Eighth; 9.) John Hurt, War; 10.) Christopher Eccleston, Ninth; 11.) David Tennant, Tenth; 12.) David Tennant, technically still tenth but the metacrisis used up a full regeneration even though he aborted the physical change; 13.) Matt Smith, Eleventh; 14.) Peter Capaldi, Twelfth. The numeric numbers are the incarnations themselves, the phonetic numbers are the hierarchy.

--SMBComix ☎  07:09, December 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * No offense intended, but we will need to see that information cited specifically. The Doctor does not specify the numbering of incarnations in Time of The Doctor, just the number of regenerations. Do you have anything addressing the number of incarnations, or just related counts like regeneration and the commonly accepted numbering. If he is indeed clearly considered as such, it is going to need to be cited in the Wikia entry anyway. I haven't read recent interviews, so I am legitimately asking for that information.


 * Additionally, this is something that should be brought to the attention of an admin if you feel it needs to be changed, since Thread:145998 addresses this. Also, I fucking love SMBC.
 * --Thor214 ☎  14:18, December 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * He does mention the numbering of incarnations when he says "13 versions of me, 13 silly Doctors", and also the numbering of Doctors when he refers to Tennant's Doctor as "Number 10" (he says "Number 10 once regenerated and kept the same face"), excluding the War Doctor from the "official" numbering.
 * --Madarjeen ☎  15:55, December 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * "Thirteen versions" are what would happen under normal circumstances. He was speaking of the ordinary procedure, which is not how it turned out for him. The eleventh regeneration was siphoned away before it could change his body, and so the Tenth Doctor (eleventh incarnation) remained in his eleventh body. Regeneration does not produce an identical body, and if it had changed his body, there would not have been sufficient energy for the duplicate body to be created at all. The Twelfth Doctor is definitely the thirteenth incarnation. ProtoKun7 ☎  20:19, January 2, 2014 (UTC)


 * Let's look at the word 'incarnation'. It refers to a body not necesarily the result of healing:
 * First Doctor=First incarnation (body)=First regeneration (at death)
 * Second Doctor=Second incarnation=Second regeneration
 * Third Doctor=Third incarnation=Third regeneration
 * Fourth Doctor=Fourth incarnation=Fourth regeneration
 * Watcher=Fourth and a half incarnation=Fourth regeneration
 * Fifth Doctor=Fifth incarnation=Fifth regeneration
 * Sixth Doctor=Sixth incarnation=Sixth regeneration
 * Seventh Doctor=Seventh incarnation=Seventh regeneration
 * Eighth Doctor=Eighth incarnation=Eighth regeneration
 * Warrior=Ninth incarnation=Ninth regeneration
 * Ninth Doctor=Tenth incarnation=Tenth regeneration
 * Tenth Doctor=Eleventh incarnation=Eleventh & Twelfth regenerations
 * Eleventh Doctor=Twelfth incarnation=Thirteenth regeneration

Thus:
 * Twelfth Doctor=Thirteenth incarnation=Fourteenth regeneration.

--104.32.214.184talk to me 20:34, April 30, 2014 (UTC)

Listen! Because this is the truth about it: First Doctor = first incarnation -Regeneration #1 Second Doctor = second incarnation -Regeneration #2 Third Doctor = third incarnation -Regeneration #3 Fourth Doctor = fourth incarnation -Regeneration #4 Fifth Doctor = fifth incarnation -Regeneration #5 Sixth Doctor = sixth incarnation -Regeneration #6 Seventh Doctor = seventh incarnation -Regeneration #7 Eight Doctor = eight incarnation -Regeneration #8 War Doctor = ninth incarnation -Regeneration #9 Ninth Doctor = tenth incarnation -Regeneration #10 Tenth Doctor = eleventh incarnation -Regeneration #11 Tenth Doctor (2) = tweltfth incarnation -Regeneration #12 Eleventh Doctor = thirdteenth incarnation -Regeneration #13 Twelfth Doctor = fourteenth incarnation

And before you complain, yes, the 10th Doctor actually have two incarnations even though it's the same look. He actually does change his body, he just keep the looks. And no, the Meta-Crisis is not an incarnation of him. Though technically the same, it's another man. (the Tenth Doctor, in his eleventh incarnation, transfer his regeneration energy into his handy spare hand and keep his looks but turns into his twelfth incarnation. The Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor is first created when Donna Noble touched the hand) --109.59.47.252talk to me 00:40, June 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * We've actually already addressed this issue in several forums: Thread:144721, Thread:145487 and Thread:145998. In particular, 145487 spells out the wiki policy and how we are to deal with the numberings. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  00:55, June 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. Just said this to clarify a few things to avoid confusion. :) --109.59.14.187talk to me 09:40, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

The Gift
In the book "The Gift" it's noted that all the incarnations of the Doctor go to the Brigadier's funeral, shouldn't the be added here?


 * Friendly reminder: don't forget to sign your posts, Sabovia.
 * Anyway, on to the topic. Unless it is mentioned in every other Doctor's wikia article, then the answer is most likely no. The book saying ALL the incarnations go to the funeral is a bit of a copout, as it tries to establish canon for future events. Unless an admin specifically gives it the OK, I wouldn't suggest that it is an event that we can reliably say occurred.
 * Thor214 ☎  01:48, January 1, 2014 (UTC)


 * It is referenced on every signal Doctor page, so It should be added.
 * Sabovia Talk  06:48, January 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * It might be worth reviewing whether the other references should actually be kept. Just because something is on every other Doctor's page doesn't mean it's actually correct to have it there. 68.146.70.124talk to me 05:39, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

This issue is addressed in Thread:149557. Basically, since the author/publisher of The Gift does not have the rights to portray any BBC Wales Doctor, then those Doctors cannot be included as part of the "all". Shambala108 ☎  05:46, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's true, as Big Finish makes subtle references to BBC Wales Doctors all the time, and the BBC Books novel The King of Terror - published in 2000 - makes reference to the Brigadier having met 10 Doctors. However, taking on-screen canon into account, the short story in question has the FIRST Doctor talking about all his incarnations meeting the Brigadier. As the Doctor, until the final moments of his Eleventh (or Twelfth, counting War Doctor) incarnation, lived under the assumption he would not have any further incarnations beyond that number, there is no way the First Doctor would be at all aware of a Twelfth or a Fiftieth Doctor for that matter attending the funeral, so we cannot assume any Doctors beyond Eleven attended based on such scant evidence. If Robert Dick writes a revised version of the story for later publication, then let's revisit the idea. 68.146.70.124talk to me 14:53, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

Body
The article, in BTS section, doesn't mention the Ninth Doctor's comment about his ears. --DCLM ☎  17:09, February 1, 2014 (UTC)
 * He didn't make that comment immediately after regenerating, so it doesn't count in this context. 68.146.70.124talk to me 14:54, February 11, 2014 (UTC)

The Gift2
Sorry to put this here under a seperate subject, but I can't figure out how to reply under the original headline.

In The Gift he says that all his incarnations would be there. Now, I agree that this doesn't mean that he knew about anything else, and just that he had been there an seen thirteen incarnations, but, he also probably didn't know that he didn't change, therefore he saw thirteen, and just assumed that they were from the same (one and only) cycle, thus seeing:

himself (the First Doctor) his second self (the Second Doctor) his third self (the Third Doctor) his fourth self (the Fourth Doctor) his fully fifth self (the Fifth Doctor) his sixth self (the Sixth Doctor) his seventh self (the Seventh Doctor) his eighth self (the Eighth Doctor) his ninth self (the Warrior, believing him to be the Ninth Doctor) his tenth self (the Ninth Doctor, believing him to be the Tenth Doctor) his eleventh self once (the Tenth Doctor, believing him to be the Eleventh Doctor) his twelfth self (the Eleventh Doctor, believing him to be the Twelfth Doctor, not knowing about the other regeneration) and his thirteenth self (the Twelfth Doctor, and as he did not know about the other regeneration, he would have believed him to be the Thirteenth (and final) Doctor) that last link is purely theoretical.--12.230.34.138talk to me 01:42, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * That's all it is, a theory, so there's zero chance of it being included in the article.


 * I meant the part about the Curator. That's for the Howling.--108 as 12.230.34.138talk to me 02:48, February 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * No need to start a new topic when replying to an existing one. If you want to edit an existing topic, just click the edit button next to the topic name and make your edit at the end of the comments. Shambala108 ☎  03:57, February 13, 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I'll remember that. :) --108.184.174.38talk to me 23:02, April 28, 2014 (UTC)

Inability to fly TARDIS
I don't exactly think he was unable to fly the TARDIS. Maybe he said it in case he needed to lay down to finish regenerating and Clara had to fly it on her own. Or maybe he said it because of his temporary amnesia (which he usually suffers from after regeneration). What do you think of my theory. --DCLM ☎  20:43, February 14, 2014 (UTC)


 * That it is just that, a fan theory. Nothing can conclusively be gathered from less than a minute of screentime for the purposes of a factual and canonical (for the most part) wiki.
 * Thor214 ☎  17:01, March 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * It is also only a theory I came up with. Of course I know that we can't know it because of that short screen-time, I just thought that it could be a possible reason. --DCLM ☎  17:12, March 3, 2014 (UTC)
 * Please note that per Tardis:Discussion policy, talk pages are absolutely not for discussing theories, speculation, fanon and the like. Talk pages are only for discussing the editing of an article. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎  17:46, March 3, 2014 (UTC)

'Talk About Capaldi's Costume'
Surely that 'TALK ABOUT CAPALDI'S COSTUME' thing is a violation of our spoiler policy? MrSiriusBlack ☎  10:58, March 2, 2014 (UTC)
 * Technically, it's not on our site. The link gives no spoiler-y info, and if you wish to click on it, it takes you off-site. Shambala108 ☎  14:13, March 2, 2014 (UTC)

Capaldi is the 13th body
To the debate above, at first, I did believe the same that he was the 14th body and that Ten was both the 11th and 12th incarnations. http://doctor-who-tv-series.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/regeneration-rundown.html


 * While that is true, we have decided on this wiki to stick with original numbering, as you can read at Thread:145487. Shambala108 ☎  21:21, May 12, 2014 (UTC)

The Fourth Doctor comments about his ears too in the first episode of ROBOT.