Howling:Addition to the Doctor's age confusion

One key factor to his age seems to have been overlooked. At the time of the first doctor's death he was hundreds of years old, and this suggests to me that a Timelord can live for a very long time without needing to regenerate, that a single Timelord lifetime can last for centuries before regeneration actually becomes a requirement.

(This is substantiated by the Master using the laser screwdriver to age the Doctor by "all nine hundred years" of his life, whereas if he is already at least 900 then he should have already reached his limit, and by the fourth Doctor judgmentally pointing out that Timelords live for thousands of years in The Deadly Assassin.)

Bearing this fact in mind, I remind you of the fact that the Seventh Doctor, in the opening to the Doctor Who movie, stated that he was "nearing the end" of his seventh life. Considering that his life usually gets cut short by the dangers posed by his adventures, it seems logical that if he could live out a full lifetime without getting killed, he should be able to live just as long as the original doctor.

So this means that if we include every previous claim of his age up to 1012, he still has to have lived for well over 200 extra years. Even if we assume he was in his 900's during his 6'th life he has to be at least 1100-and-something by now. So although his exact age is still undetermined, I think it is safe to say that he has definitely been lying about his age, as even the "not counting his time on Galifrey" argument fails to account for this discrepency.

Thanks for listening, hope you enjoyed. :)

DWfan

I always assumed it was him looking back on it retrospectively, and his voice was being used to mask the surprise of who the regeneration would be. In reality, of course, why would he be monologuing? Besides, I think some novels inferred the other incarnations lived on in some way inside the head of the next one, so he could have been speaking from there. However, I haven't seen the movie in some time, so if someone points out it is Doc8's voice, that still solves the problem; he's looking back on it as his last days :) Cannon881 16:55, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it was Doc 8 monologing over the scene of Doc 7 in the tardis relaxing before being killed, but he clearly said he was nearing the end of his seventh life. Now while this could suggest that he is acknowledging that he is about to get killed by the gunfire, it seems very clear from his tone and the way he said it that he meant he was reaching the end of the seventh lifespan.

Either way, the fact that Doc 7 looks noticeably much older clearly indicates that n indeterminate amount of extra time had passed, thus still raising his potential age above the current estimate.

DWfan

I read an interview with Steven Moffat in Doctor Who Magazine, where he says that in his mind the Doctor has no idea of his exact age. Can't remember the issue number. -- Noneofyourbusiness 16:26, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

That's more likely. Travelling in time must be pretty confusing for things like age! Jim393 18:25, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

Theres dozens of ways to reconcile the Doctor's age, but the forgotten idea seems most likely. Excalibur-117 18:38, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

I too agree that it is more likely that he cannot remember how old he really is. However, I place his age at least 1136. Here is my math:


 * In Ribos Opperation, Rommana corrects his age to be 759 and he has become 760 by Power of Kroll.


 * In Pirate Planet, Rommana states that The Doctor has been opperating "this" TARDISes for 523 years.


 * In The Empty Child, The Doctor states that he has had 900 years of phone-box travel.


 * 759 - 523 = 236 years on Gallifrey before opperating his TARDIS (assuming that he had not piloted it before stealing it)


 * Now since we know that the TARDIS was not police-box shaped until An Unearthly Child, the 900 years should start here. So, 236 years on Gallifrey plus unknown amount of time traveling with Susan plus 900 years of phone-box travel = 1136 + Time traveling with Susan.


 * The earliest refference I can find to the Doctor's age is the 450 reference in Tomb of the Cybermen, so at this point he had been away from Galifrey about 218 years if we assume between one and five years of travel for every one year of airtime we arrive at (1 to 5) * 4 years = 4 to 20 years of travel between Barbara/Ian joining the Crew and Victoria arriving.


 * 218 - (4 to 20) = 198 to 214. which brings his new age to 1334 to 1350

Now for error adjustment, The Doctor tends to round to the nearest 50 years. "something like 450 (750) years old" (Tomb of the Cybermen and Pyramids of Mars) so we can assume his 900 and 450 years statements are within about 25 years of the actual length of time. As for Rommana's statements, at this time she appeared to be a stickler for correcting the Doctor, so her numbers are most likely spot-on. So with the two rounded numbers and the unknown ratio of travel time to airtime, we are left with the range from 1284 to 1400 years old.

Anyways, check my math and let me know what you think.MasterIII 08:48, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

It is possible that a Gallifreyan year is a different length from an Earth year, in fact it is extremely unlikely they are the same. The Doctor says he is 903 in Voyage of the Damned, so either he is lying, or is using a different system to previous times when he claimed to be over 1000 (which may have been in Gallifreyan years). I notice that the show neglects that a year is not a fixed length of time, rather the time for a planet to make a revolution around whatever it is orbiting. TemporalSpleen 18:39, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Does it really matter. --Catkind121 20:03, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

No, it does, and that IS a good point! But we often get given seconds and minutes and days and so on given by many different situations, so I submit that we are getting the TARDIS translation of whatever number they really say to the nearest sensible decimal place. Plus, since the newWho, Gallifreyan numbers have apparently been in base seven instead of base 10, so that could explain some discrepancies if you like. Feumas 21:20, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Since the Doctor's been claiming to be around 900 years old since he was in his sixth life (Colin Baker), I just assume that, around then, he made a conscious decision that he was tired of constantly having to figure out how old he was (since it would be difficult) and decided just to always just give his age at around 900 when asked from then on. Much easier that way. Although given what I've managed to figure out, I'd place his age at close to 1800 at this point -- Eternalcelery 03:45, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

I think the forgetting is part of it, but the rounding idea is even more. "Over 900" just sounds more meaningful to humans than 1038 or 1397 or whatever it is. It's long enough that you say, "Wow, that's old," but not so long that it ceases to have meaning. You kind of feel like you can imagine what living over 900 years would be like. If he hung around with people who didn't think in base 10 or lived a lot longer or shorter than humans, he'd probably pick a different estimate, but for us humans, it works pretty well. And if you watch the show in order, he's been using that over 900 estimate more and more consistently, the more he's gotten to know humans. --99.33.25.56 08:56, February 25, 2010 (UTC)