Forum:Navigation Templates

Are the navigation templates really need? I mean we have categories, which contains all the information that the navigation boxes do. I see the point in some of them (such as Series navigation template and also the Aliens and Enemies of series X), but the other are not really needed if we have the categories. There have been comments in the past about how much space they take up at the bottom of the page, so should we get rid of them, and use categories instead or keep them? Mini-mitch 17:13, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * See, it's funny. Everyone seems to have different ideas about what's "necessary" with these things, but everyone equally thinks some of them are completely unnecessary.  Personally, I don't see the point at all to the aliens and enemies templates, cause that's not about one single thing, and it is, in any case, quite subjective.   People openly ridiculed my creation of hospitals, but I think that's quite helpful, and does something more than what a simple category could do.  So who knows what, really, to do with them.


 * The one thing I do think they need, visually, is to be placed under infoboxes at the same width of the infobox. If you have to go all the way to the bottom of the page to get navigation, maybe they're not as helpful as they could be.  Plus, they look quite smart as a sort of adjunct to the infobox.  Czech Out   ☎ | ✍  17:58, July 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * What I've tired is putting a navigation box inside a infobox. It does not work, due 'show/hide' box not working. However if you put a ':' before it, it works, but the box is crushed up, especially the writing at the top of the infobox. I'm not sure if we could add another item to the Infobox called 'navigation templates' and see if that works? Mini-mitch 19:54, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have managed to make the navigation box. Its on the Sandbox page. I think it could easily fit under the infobox, only thing is. I can't get the box to move to the right. i can get it to move left, and centre it, it won't move right. Mini-mitch 22:15, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You were looking for the command "float:right" to add to the main style instructions. Also, I changed the width to match that of the infobox.  If you look at the Sandbox page, it probably comes closer to what you were trying to do.   Czech Out   ☎ | ✍  03:32, July 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm against having them sit under the infobox. It has the affect of crowding the page with infoboxes, especially if we're considering adding several of these thing below the infobox. I'm more inclined to follow Wikipedia and other wikias model of, as we do now having them at the bottom of the article. --Tangerineduel 05:36, July 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it looks alright, but i'm unsure how it will look with many navigation templates, such as The End of Time page. I suggest, we could trial it on a few pages to see what other User think and how it looks. Mini-mitch 17:40, July 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not just multiple templates, but also shorter articles like short story articles, which may also have several templates stacked up.
 * Additionally if we ever get around to doing NA, MA, PDA, EDA etc template they're really long lists, if they're bunched up under the infobox they can make for difficult reading.
 * I'm not against a trial, though I am unsure about rolling it out onto any current pages given the differing styles and what not. Perhaps several new pages (or sub-pages of this forum) that test differing lengths of article and various combinations of template? --Tangerineduel 12:42, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see what you're saying. And testing on new pages like you suggested seems to be a good way to do it. But are the navigation template, for the example, really needed? Can we not just have navigation box for Series X and Alien and enemies of Series X, also like you suggested, EDA, PDA etc? Mini-mitch 14:29, July 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm fairly sure I argued why/why not the Dalek etc stories templates were needed at some point.
 * However, they have somewhat grown on me, I do find the 'Aliens and enemies of Season X' somewhat overloaded with information with the story and enemy in them. But something like Template:Davros stories I do find interesting, putting myself in a new reader's perspective, getting to the end of the article and wanting to find out more stories with Davros in them. With the Davros template (and others) it's been broken up into TV, prose etc.
 * The EDA/PDA/NA couldn't sit below the infobox, the NAs and EDAs are a fairly long list. Including stories below the infobox works as long as they're relatively short lists, but most of the nav templates have fairly long lists of stories that are better suited to a landscape wide.
 * But breaking them various things like the Davros template makes these templates bulky, and better suited to a landscape view.
 * I just find that the landscape view is better suited to display these largish sections of text, below the infobox, even though it's hidden, when it's revealed it's a lengthy list. In the example on the sandbox a lot of the stories are pushed over two lines, because of the way the text wraps around/along the template.
 * I'm not really confident about the template under the infobox at the moment, but I'm open to be swayed on the subject, it's just as I've said above even with the shortest list it's still a long list (and anything that is really short opens up the question for the need of an template (like Template:Ood stories). --Tangerineduel 14:32, July 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've gone through the Navigation Templates: I ones we should keep should be: Dalek, Master, Cybermen, UNIT, Sontaran, Davros, Regeration, Companion of the X Doctor and the series templates.
 * The ones we should get rid of I think should be: Auton, Ood, Judoon, Trickster, Weevil, Silurians and Sea Devils, Time Lords, Graske, Slitheen, Black Guardian, Jixen, Kroven along with the Chirstmans Specials and Riversongs Timeline.
 * I am unsure what we should do with the Aliens and Enemies of series X and the Monster Files template.
 * But still, part of me still thinks we should get rid of all of the navigation templates, since the categories do pretty much the same things, and they take up less room on the page, and can be easier to find what you need. Mini-mitch 15:54, July 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * The categories are good at what they do, which is basically throwing all the stories in a bag marked with a particular title.
 * The templates on the other hand are more like shelves, they present ordered information, in a list where you can follow those titles to a more detailed page of information.
 * I agree on the Time Lords template as the designation 'Time Lords' is far too vague, River Song's timeline (is there really one?…oh there is) that needs more context than the template can provide. The Trickster and the Graske I also agree on, the same with Ood, Weevil, Slitheen (actually Raxacoricofallapatorian stories), Jixen stories doesn't have enough stories in it (Korven could be useful maybe).
 * Silurian and Sea Devils need splitting into their own templates and adding other stories to them, I think they would become useful, as both have appeared across a range of novels and audios.
 * I'm undecided on Auton, putting myself in the place of a reader who doesn't know a lot I think I would find it interesting to see it all laid out like this. Black Guardian is another, I think could be recreated as 'Guardian stories', but even then it's on the cusp of not being useful. Christmas specials stories is somewhat useful. Maybe we need some sort of threshold to measure whether a villain/individual/story should have a template for it?
 * The aliens and enemies of season X need a clear up, some of them for instance: Template:Season 1 aliens is nice and tidy and readable, but Template:Season 6 aliens where all the stories run into one another looks fairly messy. These issues are fairly easy to rectify.
 * I think the Monster Files should be removed, as the page about it is on the fence with regards to continuity, none of them have been released and the site they're on is geolocked. So I think this information would be better suited presented in more detail on the Monster Files page. --Tangerineduel 16:12, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just fixed the season templates that needed done (season 5 to season 25) and put the deletion tag on the templates we've agreed. Mini-mitch 18:58, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Archivist's notes
This thread was the beginning of a major shift in navbox design, which has ultimately led to the current adoption of wikipedia's navbox design. In itself, though, it's unclear that this thread really decided anything. It just got people talking about navboxes. 13:01: Sat 22 Oct 2011