Talk:Time Lord Victorious (series)

"Eaglemoss Hero Collector" seems to be a brand name, not the name of an actual company. That said, the announcement used the brand name rather than the company name, which would be Eaglemoss Collections. I'm not sure what proper procedure is here.

Status of The Waters of Mars
Promotional material seems to include The Waters of Mars among its selection of stories, so should we be classing it as retroactively being part of TLV? WaltK ☎  03:00, September 17, 2020 (UTC)

Brian the Ood t-shirt
Does anyone actually have one of these? I've sent out some feelers to some people who might end up with one, but it'll take me a few weeks before they get it/know if they'll get it. Najawin ☎  15:55, October 1, 2020 (UTC)
 * Or if not, someone could bug people on twitter who've bought them to write us up a description/take pictures. I'd do so, but I find that while I'm okay with checking in on twitter, actually being involved in any way was deeply unhealthy for me. Najawin ☎  09:16, October 23, 2020 (UTC)
 * Alright. CaptainJimiPie on Youtube has narrated the "story" on his youtube channel (and apparently asked Goss for help for the obscured words), so now the entire "narrative" is available for us to consider without just guessing from images.
 * Want someone killed? The Lesser Order of Oberon would be happy to oblige. Death comes at a price, but for that price we kill efficiently, justly, and quickly. Slowly costs extra. Where there's a kill there's a way. Our knight-assassins await your call. Unless a bonus conscience-payment is made, a knight-assassin will undertake only to kill those mentioned within the contract. Once a contract has been accepted, a knight cannot be bought out of it, unless the offer is spectacularly tempting.
 * I would link to this, but I believe that's against wiki rules. While I do think a validity debate is appropriate still once forums are back, I think, as a guess, this thing could be argued to not be narrative, and it's certainly not as important as Goss made it out to be that we can't just ignore changing our rules on merchandise to keep it invalid. (Even if I think it's pretty clear that Goss wants it to be valid.) Najawin ☎  22:08, October 29, 2020 (UTC)
 * If Goss (or indeed someone else) has called it a story, I think that's a no-go on considering it just merchandise. We generally don't argue when the producers themselves outright tell us something passes Rule 1. But it may be that this story should be considered to be invalid under the same rule that disqualifies Doctor Who: Battles in Time or Dr Who and the Turgids. I'd say create it as an invalid "(short story)" page at this stage, and we can see later once we have Forums again about potentially digging further. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  22:33, October 29, 2020 (UTC)
 * While they haven't per se called this particular property a story, as per Time Lord Victorious (series) (which I've carefully been curating for this event), Goss stated his interest in placing a story on a T-shirt multiple times. I'll go back through the Radio Times Podcast later, but during the SDCC panel at 5:28 he says
 * The best conversation I've had so far is someone leaning forward and saying "yes, but can you tell a story on a t-shirt?" - I'm still trying to work that one out, if we can we certainly will.
 * And the product description says it's "A t-shirt so unique that it tells one very important piece of the Time Lord Victorious narrative." Najawin ☎  23:02, October 29, 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that's definitive enough by any reasonable standard, although anything even more explicit would be nice to have. Goss started with the intention of telling a story on a T-shirt, and now voilà, we've got a T-shirt advertised as "telling" a piece of the wider TLV "narrative". It doesn't take Adric to put two and two together in this situation, in my opinion. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  23:06, October 29, 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, Radio Times Podcast 10:22
 * When I spoke to James Goss he said - he said something interesting about they had to write a Doctor Who story on a T-shirt.
 * Note the 3 week gap or so between the two mentions of the concept, and then the T-shirt was announced literally the day after the podcast went live (though obviously there's some delay in the podcast getting made/uploaded and the interview, etc) (source). So this still isn't quite irrefutable, as it's someone else reporting on what Goss said in a podcast format, but it's connective tissue showing that if we believe this characterization of their discussion Goss thinks this way. Probably enough. Najawin ☎  00:14, October 30, 2020 (UTC)

Theory Timeline
Would anyone else who regularly adds to the Theory Timelines be interested in helping to create a Time Lord Victorious timeline, which combines the different 'paths' from different perspectives? I think it would be very helpful to the many fans who aren't taking part in TLV simply because they are confused at what order to read/listen/view things in. It would be a nice thank you to the many people working on this project if there's a continually updated page where fans can be sent to reference what goes where and where to start, as it seems unlikely that the official page with the 'paths' will be updated with the new releases. Let me know what you think/if you'd be interested. The Farty  Doctor   Talk  19:43, October 11, 2020 (UTC)


 * It could be done, though I question how easy that would be. Not to mention we'd likely have to wait until the story is finished to get a complete picture. WaltK ☎  22:22, October 11, 2020 (UTC)


 * Well we already have the paths (that are notably not complete). It may be easier to treat this as a half-timeline, half-viewing order, and then we could update with every release. If enough people come here and show interest / leave ideas, then we can further iron out the tricky details. The  Farty  Doctor   Talk  14:23, October 12, 2020 (UTC)

A proposed Theory Timeline page would look something like this. It is by no means complete, and also contains works that have not yet been released. All information on there is taken either from blurbs or information that the team has previously released. Also, respect where it may say that I haven't read a certain novel. Any ideas? The Farty  Doctor   Talk  22:14, November 12, 2020 (UTC)

Best way to display stories?
Right now the stories are sorted by medium, so Comics, then Prose, then Audio, then Webcasts and other stuff. But is this the most practical way to display a multimedia series, especially when there's such intertextuality between the releases? I started work on a unified table which included columns for title, subseries, author, notable characters, publisher, medium, and release date; kind of along the lines of Bernice Summerfield (series), just without the garish colors. It looked pretty good, but I lost it when the page auto-refreshed. (Thanks Safari!) Would there be any interest in me rebuilding such a thing, or do we strongly prefer the current format? – N8  ( ☎ / 👁️ ) 20:51, November 18, 2020 (UTC)
 * That approach seems to be no different than Time Lord Victorious (series) from what I can see? Najawin ☎  21:00, November 18, 2020 (UTC)
 * I assume Nate's would have been chronological from the real-world release order. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  21:05, November 18, 2020 (UTC)
 * As is Time Lord Victorious (series), at least the default sorting. I explicitly reordered them to do this. Najawin ☎  21:10, November 18, 2020 (UTC)
 * There are quite a few stories not in the official paths though. I'd be up for Nate's approach and keeping the Paths section as an extra. --Borisashton ☎  21:28, November 18, 2020 (UTC)

Fair point. Najawin ☎  21:37, November 18, 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, for instance, it would include the web short stories and individual webcasts. Or that's the idea, at least! Sounds like there's sufficient interest for me to put in the effort of remaking it, for a sandbox at least. – N8  ( ☎ / 👁️ ) 21:39, November 18, 2020 (UTC)
 * I just came here specifically to ask if anyone else thought displaying them by release date would be good for people that wanted to read/listen that way, rather than following a "path." Good to know others were thinking along those lines as well. -TimPendragon ☎  08:26, November 19, 2020 (UTC)

Path navboxes?
So it's become apparent to me that the sections in story infoboxes where you can navigate between stories in a certain order is limited to just three at a time, which proves problematic for my plan to add navigation for TLV stories according to paths (I just got done adding all six paths (alongside the existing release order path) to the All Flesh is Grass info box, only to discover that only the first three are visible).

For this purpose, I suggest either that the current infobox layout be expanded to include more paths, or that somebody make a new navbox that focuses on the TLV paths). WaltK ☎  16:11, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Issues with the paths table
When looking at The Path to Victory feature in issue 556 of DWM, I noticed that the stories listed for Brian the Ood are in a different order to the table included on this page. Firstly, Hero Collector Magazine #4 (Eaglemoss) is listed as the first story on his path which is missed out entirely in the table. Secondly, in the feature, He Kills Me, He Kills Me Not (BBC audio) is listed after The Knight, the Fool and the Dead (BBC book) while they are in the opposite order on the page. I would change this, but the source listed on this section is from the Doctor Who Newsletter and contains a broken link, meaning I can't verify if what is listed was correct to that source. Additionally, the DWM feature appears to have been produced quite early on and contains a few mistakes. For example, you may have noticed that I said He Kills Me, He Kills Me Not was from BBC Audio. This was not a mistake on my part but is what is actually said in the feature. Additionally, what I assume to be The Enemy of My Enemy is listed as My Enenmy, My Ally in the Daleks section (yet interestringly not The Eighth Doctor section). Finally, from Brian's perspective, He Kills Me, He Kills Me Not does take place before The Knight, the Fool and the Dead. By posting this here, I hope to be able to gain some other opinions before making any edits. Bongo50 (aka Bongolium500) ☎  12:03, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Eaglemoss: The Time Lord Victorious & Brian the Ood
I just received the newest Time Lord Victorious Eaglemoss figurines and there's no short story involved. It's basically a bunch of interviews with most people who have written stories throughout the series, and give those who may not have had the opportunity to catch up on certain things a short explanation into how each thing fits into the whole picture. However, there is no new original prose in the pack. So, whilst the Eaglemoss collections table can remain unchained, the short story table should be updated with the last row removed, as there is no short story (featuring the Tenth Doctor or otherwise). Hope this helps! The Farty  Doctor   Talk  10:45, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

New, sortable stories table
To me it's always seemed rather ugly and inelegant that we split all the TLV releases and stories across a dozen different tables separated by medium and publisher, given that all the releases are intentionally contributing to one intertextual story across companies and media. So using the same tools I tried out on Sabbath Dei - list of appearances, I've created a single sortable table of all the TLV stories. Let me know what you think and what other information would have to be added to make it viable for the page. – n8 (☎) 17:01, 26 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I feel that everything should be linked, even if it has already been mentioned, as the table could be viewed in any order. It will make finding the actual link a lot easier. Bongo50 (aka Bongolium500) ☎  18:59, 26 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Good point. I tried only putting the links in spots that would make sense no matter how you sorted it, but you're right that it was still confusing. I've added all the links to the "author" and "publisher" sections now! – n8 (☎) 15:16, 27 July 2021 (UTC)