Talk:The Beast Below (TV story)

Production Error
Did anyone else notice that the Union Flag on the side of Starship UK was the correct way up at the start of the episode, but at the end of the episode, and when they were looking out of the TARDIS after the titles it was upside down? 81.156.243.91 17:44, April 19, 2010 (UTC) During the elavator scene before the Smiler turns to the angry face, the face is already seen as the floor opens. ==Star Whale / Starship UK connectors?== The star whale has, at the very least, a hole cut in its head and its head fixed to the location of the Tower of London, a surgically implanted feeding tube, and a tube leading to an overflow area binding it to Starship UK. It's also reasonable to assume that all through its body are various girders and interlocks tying the two together. Why then, in the last scene, do we see the star whale apparently unhindered, especially around the mouth and head? 124.254.80.117 06:09, April 11, 2010 (UTC) :Presumably everything is connected through the Star Whale's back. With the mouth, i'm choosing to believe it's a second, internal mouth, based on a) the Doctor saying that they were in the middle of the ship, and b) the inside of the mouth they see is small compared to the one we see at the end of the episode which is as wide as several of the towers. As for the brain, we don't necessarily know that its brain is in its head; it is a giant alien whale, after all... Ehsteve23 15:45, April 12, 2010 (UTC) They do say the Star Whale was released, maybe all the tubes etc were removed?Excalibur-117 15:46, April 12, 2010 (UTC) ==Elevator Verse== Here is the full text of the poem the girl in the elevator recites in the lift, in case anyone needs it. A horse and a man, above, below One has a plan but both must go Mile after mile, above, beneath, One has a smile and one has teeth Though the man above might say hello Expect no love from the Beast below. 124.254.80.117 01:03, April 11, 2010 (UTC) And then, what Amy (I believe it's her) recites at the end of the episode as a voice over: In bed above we're deep asleep. While greater love lies further deep. This dream must end, this world must know: We all depend on the Beast below. 68.52.163.69 02:39, April 12, 2010 (UTC) ==Suggested Plot holes:== The computer registers Amy to be over 1300 years old, when it should register her to be over 700 : Good spot there. It suggests either that the timeframe of the story was changed at some point, and the age calculation wasn't updated. Or Amy somehow gets registered several hundred years before she was born... possibly in a future adventure? 79.123.73.227 20:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC) Sensorite 20:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC) :: One point: I know the Doctor mentions that mankind branched out in the 29th century, but I can't remember any point where it mentions explicity that they are travelling in the 2800s (although I may be wrong). Isn't it possible that they have been travelling for hundreds of years, perhaps up to the 3300s (which makes Amy about the right age)? You're right, look down at the Setting highlight, it should be edited.Doctorin the TARDIS 22:54, April 10, 2010 (UTC) If the Doctor and Amy are in the mouth of the star whale, shouldn't that mean they are exposed to the open space and suffocate? Conmck22 18:45, April 10, 2010 (UTC) : Because the Star Whale has it's mouth closed? We only see the teeth, not the stars outside. Presumably it's lips form an air-tight seal, or it's lips had been sealed surgically when the feeding tubes were inserted. Any oxygen atomosphere would then come from Starship UK, possibly from the compressed air cannons used to force food down the tubes. Yeah but at the start of the episode The Doctor said he had extended the air shell OGREPOP 16:26, June 10, 2010 (UTC) This also explains why The Doctor and Amy end up in an overflow tube when the Star Whale vomits, rather than being expelled into space. 79.123.73.227 20:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC) Sensorite 20:09, April 10, 2010 (UTC) : The final scene pretty much shows the whale's mouth in open space. Even if if could maintain a high-pressure atmosphere behind closed lips, it would still vomit into empty space. Hack59 14:46, April 12, 2010 (UTC) ::We don't know the anatomy of a star whale, maybe it has another mouth inside the first one where the overflow tube is connected. We saw that the tower of london was built around its brain. Ehsteve23 14:49, April 12, 2010 (UTC) At one Point Amy is talking to the Doctor about the star whale and says "if you are very old and the last of your kind", refering to The Doctor, and while Doctor told Amy he was the last of his kind, I don't recall him telling Amy his age. ==Production Errors== In the pre-credit sequence there is a shot of Timmy in the lift with the Smiler smiling. Then the shot switches to the "test card girl". Then back to a shot with Timmy in the lift with the Smiler already having it's "disapproving" face. Only then does the shot switch to a close-up of the Smiler, still with the smiling face, turning it's head to the disapproving face. : They also showed the Smiler with his rage face on while the camera was doing the upward shot as the lift floor was opening, only to show it just turning to that face in the next shot. Seems that scene was a bit rushed. :: That's right. The scene outside the elevator is correct I think, but inside the elevator, the upward shot just before the shot of the parting floor shows the wrong face. Hack59 14:46, April 12, 2010 (UTC) :: Sorry, got to go back on myself a bit here: There is another error after Timmy enters the elevator, while the poem is playing. Initially, the elevator smiler is in "good" mode. When the girl says "Though the man above might say hello", the smiler turns from "good" to "disapproving". But before that, just after the first close-up on the poem girl, there is a wide shot of the elevator in which the smiler is already in "disapproving" mode. (And then there's the second error after the lift has stopped at level zero, during the upward shot while the floor is opening.) Hack59 22:43, April 19, 2010 (UTC) == Setting == The machine gave Amy's age as about 1300, as Amy is 21 in 2010, this story should be given a setting in the 34th century not the 29th. Doctorin the TARDIS 21:35, April 10, 2010 (UTC)Doctorin the TARDIS 10:35pm Sat 10th April 2010 Liz 10 had been queen for 300 years (by the Doctor's estimate), so if they left Earth in the 2900s and she was involved in capturing the whale as her recorded message suggests, then it could easily have been at least 3200, possibly later if you fudge the numbers a bit (late 2900s, and the Doctor underestimated by a century or so). Lokiofmidgaard 21:43, April 10, 2010 (UTC) Yeah I checked it 1,306 so a setting of 3295, 33rd century :)Doctorin the TARDIS 00:15, April 11, 2010 (UTC) Amy's home year is, at this point, unclear. The beginning of The Eleventh Hour picks up right where End of Time Part Two ended--in early 2005. Unless there was off-screen time travelling in the beginning between his Big Ben near-miss and the crash landing in young Amy's yard. This is further complicated by Rory's hospital badge's date-of-issue being 1990, when the earliest one can work in medicine in the UK is 16 years old. And then that is even further complicated by the Doctor's accidental 2 year trip to the Moon and return to pick up Amy. It's currently unclear whether the Prisoner Zero incident took place in 2008 (making Amy from 2010), 2010 (making Amy from 2012), or from an entirely different time period (ie: the 1990s). Therefore, we can't nail down the exact year of The Beast Below. All we have is the Doctor's assertion that it's the 29th century, and I have edited the infobox and article to reflect this. DigiFluid 18:00, April 11, 2010 (UTC) Your assessment is a bit off, the Doctor states the Starship UK was constructed in the 29th century due to the solar flares, not what the current century is.Also, while the exact year is debatable, ( I agree with 3295 personally) the actual century is easy to figure out ( 2000 + 1300 = 34th Century).Excalibur-117 18:32, April 11, 2010 (UTC) Interesting. While I don't agree with a date so exact as 3295 (as stated in my previous comment, I don't think the exact year that Amy comes from has been made clear), I understand the reasoning behind the 34th century argument. There is one nagging issue with it, however: the state of mechanical disrepair of the ship. We see that, at least in some places, cables have never even bothered to be hooked up. Shortly thereafter when the computer is identifying Amy, it says aloud "1306 years old" while the screen reads 1308. While this is potentially simply a production error, it was also obvious enough on-screen to suggest that perhaps the Starship UK's computers weren't quite functioning properly--drawing the entire figure into question. DigiFluid 18:48, April 11, 2010 (UTC) If 3295 has be "debunked" why does it say 34th century, explain! Explain! EXPLAIN! She definately lives in the year 2010 as we figure out in the next episode when he looks at the year of the end and notes that it's in Amys time and the clock reads 26 06 2010. ==The Crack== The crack reappeared again in this episode, less subtle than the one on the Doctor's monitor in the last - at the end of the episode, in the hull of Starship UK itself. 68.52.163.69 22:13, April 10, 2010 (UTC) : Guess I might've been right about it purposely reoccuring! I'd say not all of them will be so blatant, we should keep an eye out. Ponk 01:36, April 11, 2010 (UTC) It appears twice in this episode! The first can be seen by freeze-framing and stepping through Amy's "voting" video 217.111.180.77 22:15, May 8, 2010 (UTC) == Plot error? == I'm not so sure my question really justifies the subject line, but am I to assume that the star whale will have to continue to live off english citizens after the events of this episode? Or was this resolved and i missed it? : I think that it isn't stated, whether the citizens are needed to feed the star whale. On the tongue of the whale is a lot of food. Maybe that is enough for it not to starve.78.43.114.215 12:18, April 11, 2010 (UTC) == Zero Theme? == Might be a little early for this one but we've had the repetition of the word Zero in the first two episodes, could this be another series theme? Prisoner Zero was the obvious one in the first episode, in the second episode Timmy scores Zero and is then taken to Floor Zero by the vator. Thoughts? Queeg 19:21, April 11, 2010 (UTC) The Zero theme is similar to the theme from Last of the Time Lords where every single person is thinking of the doctor. Invictus152 03:13, April 14, 2010 (UTC) This sounds like it could have something to do with the black guardian..... There was a reference to lots of zeros in the key to time series when the black guardian tried to trick the doctor into giving him the key. Well, this didn't seem to get continued in Episode 3 (Victory of the Daleks). Hack59 15:10, April 19, 2010 (UTC) No seems not! :o) Queeg 15:10, May 1, 2010 (UTC) == Plot weaknesses == A fine episode, but since I measure Moffat by the highest standards, here are some weaknesses of the plot -- not sure if that's appropriate here, but maybe someone finds them useful. *A simple fly-by upon spotting the Starship UK would have revealed the whale right away and cut a good 40min from the episode. Especially given the Doctor's obsession to observe things carefully, this is a bit of a big miss. *Water/Engines: So many things are rather contrived about this. Why would the water vibrate on the floor but not on the table? Why wouldn't the habitat area be buffered away from the engine section? Much worse: A spacecraft wouldn't use any engines at all for the largest part of the journey, engines are only needed when accelerating! *How did the humans get into that pickle? Couldn't/wouldn't they have observed the whale at least for a short time to see what it was up to? And why does the queen need a memory wipe, but Hawthorne doesn't? Surely good leadership would have meant for the queen to live with the decision and bear the moral burden; it's clearly not beyond human capacity (e.g. Hawthorne). And why would the Starship disintegrate if they let the whale go? At most they'd be without propulsion. *Whales in space. OK, creative freedom, no need to discuss why it would have teeth and a mammalian digestive tract filled with breathable oxygen. Hack59 14:45, April 12, 2010 (UTC) : The third one I can sort of answer: The humans were desperate, so they saw the whale and panicked, capturing and toturing it, not bothering to see if it would go by itself. As for the Queens memory wip, thats easy: It was so she could continue to run the state without being crippled by the emotional turmoil.Excalibur-117 16:24, April 12, 2010 (UTC) I just thought of another thing: Why do the humans need any propulsion at all? It doesn't seem like they're going anywhere in particular, nor do they seem to need planetary harvests or anything to sustain themselves. Related to this, why would it be a problem to let the whale go, and why would that have to destroy the ship? Hack59 15:13, April 19, 2010 (UTC) A couple of thoughts, in the story's defence: *The TARDIS was only above the ship, so the whale was concealed from sight. From there, they apparently directly dematerialised and then rematerialised on-board. *Water/Engines: The water would probably vibrate on the table, but would be more likely to do so on the floor (more directly attached to the ship). As for whether or not it would be using engines, it really depends where the ship was going and how fast. At sub-light speeds, you could just "point it" and rely on momentum to carry you forward until you wanted to stop. Faster-than-light travel would probably necessitate engines of some sort to be constantly in use. So if the humans were purportedly traveling to another star system, you'd expect engines to be running. *Assuming the ship was near a planet when it ended up losing it's propulsion system, it would indeed fall into the atmosphere and disintegrate there. *They don't go into much backstory on the whale's biology or what else it encountered at times (or ate, normally). It may very well stop at planets with atmospheres to pick up and store oxygen, much like a real whale does when it rises to the surface. Just my thoughts while watching it.Spreee 15:34, April 19, 2010 (UTC)Spreee : Well, I get it that the TARDIS was only "above" the ship, but that's exactly what I'd call very sloppy reconnaissance. If the Doctor is so keen on observing stuff, you'd think that they'd take at least a swing around the ship to have a good look at it... and you'd really have to be at a very well chosen place to not see the whale -- a bit too much pure coincidence for something that the whole episode relies on for my taste (mind you, I really enjoyed the episode!). Hack59 19:20, April 19, 2010 (UTC) ::If the star whale was imprisoned, it might not have been visible from the outside. If they had kept it in an interior prison area, that would explain both its not being seen from outside and its having breathable air in its mouth. Presumably the "Abdicate" button would have set it free by opening that prison. —209.169.196.24 14:07, April 25, 2010 (UTC) OK, fair enough: the starship is "searching for a new home", so they do have a purpose, and they'll need propulsion for that. But the Doctor already knows all this right at the beginning, so it's kind of surprising that he doesn't know that there's a giant whale driving the whole thing... though maybe he just never heard of star whales before, either? Hack59 22:48, April 19, 2010 (UTC) == Another Production Error???? == If the Doctor and Amy arrive at the year 3925 which is the 33rd Century and it is revealved that Starship UK left 300 years previous to this date that would make the date that Starship UK left Earth at 2995 which would be the 30th Century. Did the Doctor actually say they left the 29th Century?? The UK where the last known residents to stay on Earth but could that mean it took them a 100 years to leave after the solar flares hit Earth??? -- Michael Downey 12:02, April 12, 2010 (UTC) == An Error that is an Error: AMY'S AGE == After re-watching the Beast Below on Television and the Internet, I paused to try and see the correct age that is displayed on the monitor and it is blurred slightly, I believe it looks like a 6 and sometimes 6's from a distance can look like a 8 and with the speaker confiming she is 1306 years old is more than a confirmation. -- Michael Downey 12:29, April 12, 2010 (UTC) : That's why we have BBC HD :-) : You can see for yourself what the computer screen says. The subtitles read " 'Age - 1,306.' ". The soundtrack says "Thirteen hundred and six". Hack59 14:45, April 12, 2010 (UTC) ITS A 8! : OK, probably feeding the troll here, but here's a crop with an inset close-up: : == Plot Hole == Um - if there's only one Star Whale, how can Scotland have its own ship? BlueBox 19:58, April 13, 2010 (UTC) :The Scottish ship can presumably fly itself, the only reason the UK ship used the Star Whale, by my understanding, was that they could just not get it to fly, so it's quite possible that the Scots just had better tech. Bwtvprod 20:45, April 13, 2010 (UTC) : :Or UK is larger than Soctland, so its possible they could fit everyone on just a smaller ship. Maybe the Scots knicked the engine of the British ship. I'm betting that the Torchwood institue had something to do with the engine on the Scottish ship. We never did learn what happened to all the tech Torchwood London had stashed at Canary Wharf (like the sunglider). Invictus152 03:17, April 14, 2010 (UTC) You're also forgetting all the other countries that left earth too.Excalibur-117 15:38, April 19, 2010 (UTC) :Every other country had a working ship and managed to escape. The British were the only ones without a working ship and therefore used the Star Whale. It was explained in the episode. ☆The Solar Dragon (Talk)☆ 15:41, April 19, 2010 (UTC) Besides, if there's anything the Scots are good at, it's drinking, fighting, and interstellar engineering!
 * Well Star Trek's proved that with Scotty, the Scottish engineer... == Hawthorne == Just a possible reference - Hawthorne, the civil servant who is in charge of the winders, could possibly be named after Nigel Hawthorne, who played Sir Humphrey Appleby in "Yes Minister"/"Yes Prime Minister". - JonB == Poem Girl analogy refers to Graham's Life On Mars == Should a reference also be made to the use of similar Test Card F analogy to Poem Girl in 'Fear Her' writer Matthew Graham's co-created shows 'Life On Mars' and series 1 of 'Ashes to Ashes', since both these series plots involve time travel of a kind and the consequences of changing / not changing history? Is it an in-joke, a homage to Matthew Graham, or something more? 86.26.137.154 07:08, April 15, 2010 (UTC) ==Subtle Production Error?== I managed to spot something which could be a production error or it could indicate a possible future return to the ship. If you look very carefully in the recording, there is a mark below Amy's eye that is not present on the Amy who's watching the recording, nor in any of the other episodes, can you see a mark below her eye. Thoughts on this? 211.30.221.128 22:24, May 1, 2010 (UTC) Maybe it is a shadow or it is a bruise and the recording wipes all the visible bad stuff away or maybe your right.I dunno?OGREPOP 16:29, June 10, 2010 (UTC) I think it's her mascara running :P Just after she pushes the forget button she wipes her eyes and seems suprised that she's crying... and then watches the video... Klepto 01:51, August 30, 2010 ==References to BBC History== I am not sure if this belongs on the main wiki page, but I think it's worthy of note. This episode includes several references to classic BBC icons. These items would be more obvious to BBC viewers of a certain age. In the pre-credits sequence, the girl on the monitor in the circle that is reciting the poem bears a resemblance to the classic BBC test card. (See http://www.mediacollege.com/video/test-patterns/television/bbc-f1997.jpg) The monitors in the voting cubicles show an ident. that includes the outline of British isles. It is a very close match to the 1960s BBC Ident. (See http://625.uk.com/tv_logos/logos/bbctv.jpg) Just a couple more subtle references to different periods in British history that go along with the more obvious references like the Underground signs. 98.223.54.141 00:43, May 2, 2010 (UTC) == Similarity to Ursula Le Guin short story == This story is thematically similar to "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula K. Le Guin. Omelas is a prosperous city with a terrible secret: its prosperity requires that a single innocent child be imprisoned and kept in perpetual misery and filth. All citizens learn this secret when they come of age, and they must choose whether to stay (and accept the suffering of the innocent) or leave the city. 98.240.230.81 05:09, May 10, 2010 (UTC) == UK Flag == On the Production errors section, it says that the Scottish part is still on the UK flag, despite Scotland having its own ship. Surely it's just because it's a tangible symbol that would look too different without the Scotish part? -whoknows ==Great Big Production Error== If the Earth is Boiled by Solar Flares How Could the Events of The End of the World have Happened and how Cassandra have been born on Earth? Liamhenney 22:16, May 22, 2010 (UTC) : They were able to hold back the sun in "the end of the world". We don't know when that technology was developed. For all we know, it was developed a year after the Doctor left the 31st Century, or it could have been 196614 years after, hence how Satellite 5 was able to go online in 199909. That's how. The Thirteenth Doctor 22:36, May 29, 2010 (UTC) : When he says boiled this is only temporarily. The Earth is roasted by solar flares. The Doctor clearly states in the episode that the humans left until it was safe to return. Pulse003 21:33, June 2, 2010 (UTC) : : In the The Sontaran Experiment we learn that the earth is safe to return to. --152.131.9.132 21:00, September 13, 2010 (UTC) == magpies electricals == in the part where amy and mandy find the hole there is a banner type thing that says 'Magpie's Electricals'. This is the same name as Mr Magpie's shop in the Idiot's Lantern : Yes, if you read the page, we've noted that. The Thirteenth Doctor 22:29, May 29, 2010 (UTC) : : Plus, it is (or at least... is for me) common knowledge that 'Magpie's Electricals' is a recurring item within the Who-niverse. An in-joke, perhaps. It has popped up in many a place. ~ PRKon : : == Possible Star Wars references? == It's possible this episode may contain a few deliberate references to Star Wars. Liz 10 says to the Doctor: "Help us, Doctor. You're our only hope." echoing Princess Leia's holographic message in Episode IV. The Doctor and Amy are shunted down into a pile of refuse (again echoing a scene in Episode IV). The scenes where the Doctor realizes they're inside a giant living thing and they look outward through the jaws of the star whale are reminiscent of the sequence in Episode V with the space slug. Lastly, near the end, the scene change between the climax and the denouement features a vertical transitional wipe similar to Lucas' wipe style. I'm not a regular contributor to the Wiki, so I'll leave it to other folks to decide if this is worth inclusion. -- 24.5.138.98 08:40, July 19, 2010 (UTC) *Yes. I've added them in. The Thirteenth Doctor 12:37, July 19, 2010 (UTC) ==Continuity== It should be noted that all three doctors in the revived series encountered an entity that is last of its kind in their second adventures on television. The Eleventh Doctor encountered the Star Whale here. Both of the Ninth and Tenth Doctor encountered the Face of Boe in their second TV adventures. (The End of the World / New World) Carlo0904 07:38, July 20, 2010 (UTC)