Talk:The Vampires of Venice (TV story)

Love Triangle?
What's all this about a love triangle? The Doctor and Amy arn't in love, only Amy and Rory, and Rory and the Doctor arn't in love, so how is it a triangle?Explain. MidnightCat 15:36, May 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Have a look at the wikipedia article on it. As long as there is romantic links to one of the three by the other two, it is a love triangle.The other two people can be linked by friendship, hatred, by family etc. Mc hammark 16:47, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Jigsaw Puzzle Spoilers
If you complete the "Vampires of Venice" Jigsaw on the official DW website, the quote is:

Rory: You owe Casanova a Chicken? Doctor: Long Story, we had a Bet.

Filming Location
The scenes with the Doctor and the vampire girls in the preview clips were filmed in the girls' dungeon bathroom in St. Donats Castle in the Vale of Glamorgan. I went to the school housed in the castle so could recognise the location. It was also confirmed on the official Facebook page. (Yes, I know that it is a poor source...) - Could someone who can edit the page add this please..? Stephen1133 10:25, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

The part in the bedroom looked like it as filmed in Castell Coch north of Cardiff.

Also it's Caerphilly Castle, not Caephilly

Correct title?
What's the correct title? I'm seeing "Vampires of Venice" being used as well.23skidoo 18:41, March 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think I've only seen Vampires of Venice used. Not that I paid a lot of attention... TheOmnius 01:59, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * According to Matt Smith on The Jonathan Ross Show, it's Vampires in Venice. That said, earlier in the week, The Doctor Who News Page's source, and atm I forget who they were, said it was one of those titles that could change by the time of broadcast. We'll find out for sure in seven weeks though.  Czech Out  ☎ | ✍ 04:40, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can't go with statements made by an actor during an interview. Otherwise Silence in the Library would have been listed as River's Run. BBC publicity materials say Of so we use Of. 23skidoo 16:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh I know. I'm not suggesting we should use MS on JR as our source. Merely noting what had been said publicly by a production team member. As I've said many times before, it'd be better, prolly, if we didn't fool with these pages at all until actual date of first broadcast. That'll never happen, but, honestly, it'd save us a lot of work for precisely this sort of reason.  Czech Out  ☎ | ✍ 23:25, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The BBC Press Office has confirmed the title as The Vampires of Venice, with "The" as well. So that settles that. We should keep an eye open for a possible reference down the line (DWM, DVD release) that Vampires in Venice was a working title. 23skidoo 22:27, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was changed from 'Vampires in Venice' to 'Vampires of Venice' to avoid confusion with the 1988 film Nosferatu a Venezia, which was translated to Vampires in Venice for UK TV. - Anon 22:03, May 10th 2010 (UTC)

Rory rumor link
the reference where it says rory is a companion brings up a pr0n advert

You've got a pop-up there. Still works for me. It's out there plenty of times though. Try http://community.livejournal.com/doctorwho/5641033.html, or just google it.86.134.188.188 12:31, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have removed the link anyway, for two reasons. 1: it's an image host that may not keep the image for the long term; and 2: There is no source given. All we see is a close-up photograph of a script page. How do we know that comes from an actual script? What's the origin of the image? Also, it's a line of dialogue taken out of context. I've left the rumour itself in for now, but we need a better source like DWM, or one of the actors or something. A random image with no pedigree given just doesn't cut it. 23skidoo 22:30, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * And as the BBC Press Office official synopsis for the episode now establishes that Rory appears, we don't need this dubious link anymore, anyhow. I killed the rumour item, and I see someone also used the image link as an attempt at sourcing the infobox. It's gone now, too. 23skidoo 01:54, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Digital Spy Spoilers
[1]

1. Rory is halfway through his stag do when The Doctor arrives to collect him. And it's quite an entrance.

2. On entering the TARDIS, Rory doesn't really say what The Doctor wants him to.

3. The First Doctor makes an appearance.

4. The 'vampires' like Amy. Who can blame them? She's delicious!

5. "Where are you from? Did you **** ******* the *****?"

6. Ever wanted to see The Doctor get electrocuted? Luck's in.

7. "Some tiny. Some were as big as the sky."

8. What's 10,000 in number and waiting in the water?

9. Amy enjoys a massive snog with either Rory or The Doctor. Right in front of the other.

10. "All I can **** is... *******."

What says you? Musedae 19:58, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

no 9 i don't want it to be the doctorLiamhenney 20:11, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

number 5... Where are you from? did you fall through the crack Liamhenney 20:14, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

number 10- "All I can 'hear' is... 'silence'."Burnup15 16:55, May 6, 2010 (UTC)

No 3. No? Really? As if the clip didn't already show that!

Definetely a great entrance! lol. Liamhenney 18:32, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

1 was hilarious. End of statement.

2 made me laugh. "...I like it when people say 'it's bigger on the inside...'"

3. Good job.

4. Of course they do!

5. Did you come through the chasm?

6. The door.

7. The Cracks.

8. The Saturnynian sons.

9. With Rory, but NOT in front of the Doctor. She does kiss him in front of the Doctor, but it's definitely not a massive snog...

10. All I can hear is...silence. --> Rory.

Liamhenney, you were REALLY close on 5. Burnup15, amazing job for 10! Musedae 03:06, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

On #9, in the DW Confidential, it is a *massive* snog. Arthur and Karen "forgot" to stop, or so they say. Though I'm certain the editors added some extra lipsmacking sound effects. Dwfan101 16:47, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the snog after Amy killed Francesco is massive but not the kiss infront of The Doctor! That one was barely a peck. Musedae 16:50, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Library Card
Did anyone who watched it in HD manage to make out what his name was on the library card? Mc hammark 21:06, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

It says Dr W. somthing beginning with an S but the light was shining on it...


 * Knowing the Doctor, it's probably 'Smith' Adam 148 10:10, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's Dr J. Smith and the address is 76 Totter's Lane which is the junkyard from the Unearthly Child. The J might look a bit like a W due to have some speck on the left left of it but there's a couple of those elsewhere on the card, and the 'W shape' doesn't fit the typeface used. It's J. I have a screencap from the 720 version if proof is needed. The 1080 version would be even clearer Carnivius Prime 11:54, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * I uploaded a screenshot from the 1280x800 version to the main page. Hack59 21:06, May 9, 2010 (UTC) The card clearly says:

No. 87389   Expires Nov. Name Dr. J. Smith Address 76 Totter's Lane Shoreditch London, ??? 5EG SHOREDITCH LIBRARY Present this card each time you bor[row] You are responsible for books bor[rowed] Identification Card Not  Trans[ferable]

Zoom in to Keyhole


What was the meaning of that? Liamhenney 21:30, May 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * The way I took it was that it was supposed to be similar in shape to the crack: shrodes 03:49, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Most tenuous link ever! :-) Doesn't every keyhole look a little bit like that? And the keyhole has always been there, too. Anyway, that must have been the most terrible, thrown-together episode ever. Hack59 13:47, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Definitely not. That's the most ridiculous link ever. Musedae 14:23, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * There isn't any meaning. It's a Yale Type keyhole, so every models look a bit like the same. Sam122 16:21, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was definitely nothing to think about. On the other side of the keyhole, there were the end credits. Therefore, it was a simple outro. 99.141.86.181 08:08, May 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with Shrodes. Its simily a production thing, a dircting technique. The camera rotated to show the keyhole like a crack. Otherwise they would have just gone through the keyhole without a rotation of the camera. Its not meant to be a crack, but its clearly meant to be a reminder for the viewer, an ominous way to end the show after the "all I hear is silence" line. - Looq - 13:42, May 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait, did you actually watch the scene? The camera did not rotate. It was the original poster here who rotated the picture to point out the alleged similarity to a crack. The lock is always shown upright in the episode, all the way through to the end credits. Hack59 20:50, May 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * The caption on the picture even says "Keyhole rotated left." The camera didn't rotate, and it did just go straight through the keyhole. Musedae 20:58, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, didnt realise the camera didnt rotate, I have only watched the episode once and it is easy mis-remember things. I just assumed the camera rotated due to the image provided. If you read the captain again, it is easy to read the meaning of it differently. There is no need to be inpolite. - Looq 00:29, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've posted this in the Howling so apologies if it goes against etiquette to post a link here rather than type it all out again, but it is relevant to the comment which started this thread ...
 * http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:5_things_to_look_for:_tardis_key_/_keyhole" 86.26.137.154 08:31, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:5_things_to_look_for:_tardis_key_/_keyhole" 86.26.137.154 08:31, May 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Heh, I've clearly been watching too much Lost, where even the most tenuous sightings of recurring themes get picked up on ;) --shrodes 09:40, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Unkindness?
Why did the doctor not offer them a new planet like he has done previously? --The10thdoctor 21:35, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think he normally would have done, but i think when he told Rosanna 'You didn't remember Isabellas name', that was reason enough. Bluesilver 09:38, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Would it have made a difference? They had no females of the species to continue reproducing, and would almost certainly try to convert people from some other helpless planet had he given them one shrodes 11:46, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

I think that perhaps he would have, assuming that Rosanna hadn't killed herself...He seemed genuinely upset when she fed herself to her children Musedae 14:02, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * To be frank, Eleven has been shown to be less kind (if not kind of a jerk) compared to earlier versions, especially One and Ten. Compare "You don't decide what I have to know", his reaction to the WWII Daleks (really, why did he go on trying to remind them who they were when they appeared to have forgotten?) or his constant shutting people up. Among other things. So this might just be a character trait. 90.134.32.15 11:03, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would point out that the First Doctor is, at times, extremely unkind and several other previous incarnations, notably Four and Six had an extremely low tolerance for both people perpetrating evil and for fools and both did frequently tell people to shut up. The reason he kept hitting the Dalek and insisting that they were Daleks was to provoke them into dropping their cover in anger or self-defense because he knew they were up to something AND it turned out that he was 100% correct about that, the problem is that him getting mad and attacking them and trying to get them to drop their fascade was EXACTLY what they wanted him to do. It is a clear case of both the Daleks and the Doctor knowing exactly how their enemy works and thinks and for once, and I like that they did this, it is the Daleks who outwit the Doctor.Doorofnight 17:42, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would point out that the First Doctor is, at times, extremely unkind and several other previous incarnations, notably Four and Six had an extremely low tolerance for both people perpetrating evil and for fools and both did frequently tell people to shut up. The reason he kept hitting the Dalek and insisting that they were Daleks was to provoke them into dropping their cover in anger or self-defense because he knew they were up to something AND it turned out that he was 100% correct about that, the problem is that him getting mad and attacking them and trying to get them to drop their fascade was EXACTLY what they wanted him to do. It is a clear case of both the Daleks and the Doctor knowing exactly how their enemy works and thinks and for once, and I like that they did this, it is the Daleks who outwit the Doctor.Doorofnight 17:42, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Amy-Rory kissing music?
The piano music that plays when Rory and Amy kiss, just after she saves him, does that not sound a lot like Claire Bennet's theme from the tv show Heroes? Anyone else pick that up? Mc hammark 21:43, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

The Date
It says on the main page that the Doctor picks Rory up on the 26th, however, why would he have his stag do on the day of his wedding, and the Doctor is avoiding the 26th at all costs at the moment isn't he? Most likely the Doctor just went back a few hours to pick him up. It's probably just an editing error though. Adam 148 06:52, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Actually the Doctor picks Rory up on the 25th, because at the beggining of the episode, when Rory leaves a message on Amy's phone, he says : 'I haven't told you for seven hours that I love you [...] and even if we weren't getting married tomorrow, I'd ask you to mary me anyway'. Sam122 16:03, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

The Crack
Can someone add in there is another crack earlier in the episode, (and given the importance of the date of the wedding day).... in Amy's bedroom wall (again!) in the panning shot from the answerphone to the wedding dress but above it in the wall at 2.10 mins, thanks 86.26.137.154 07:44, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

That's not a crack it's the top of the wardrobe


 * Sign your posts please. And compare the wardrobe at the end of FaS, looks to me it has a flat top at 38.41 and 39.59. 86.26.137.154 09:03, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Both of those times the top of the wardrobe is out of shot or at a funny angle, and I don't believe it is flat. In any case, the top of the wardrobe isn't really the shape of the crack anyway shrodes 11:50, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

The Chickens
I don't know if this is just me over-speculating, but does anyone know the siginificance of the camera focusing on chickens throughout this episode, particularly towards the end? Then of course there's the throw-away line about the Doctor owing Casanova a chicken (a line I initially thought might be an in-joke between Smith and Tennant...) 94.5.58.74 10:01, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

'Refugees' Story Arc
Throwing this theory out there, but thought I should point out that this episode introduced the arc of Refugees- a possible hint to Amy's true nature? (I still firmly believe Amy's not who she says (or thinks) she is- based off of another theory which I shall post below)

Eleventh Hour had Prisoner Zero- a refugee in the sense of escaping one place to live in another

Daleks had the Daleks as refugees, waiting for the Doctor to show up to restart their race

The star whale was not a refugee- but the humans were

The weeping angel that was on the Byzantium was by itself, possibly as a refugee

The 'vampires' outright stated they were refugees 94.5.58.74 10:07, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I don't really think that all of those fit quite right. Besides, you could say that so many other episodes are part of that arc. 99.141.86.181 08:16, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * That reminds me, however: What's a black guy doing in 16th century Venice? I don't think there were any black people in Venice back then, except maybe for some slaves. 90.134.32.15 11:07, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * In reference to Isabella's father, he was most likely a Moor, a Muslim of North African descent who settled in Italy and Spain following various wars and conflicts in pre-medieval periods.May 11, 2010 (MM)
 * "What's a black guy doing in 16th century Venice?" - trying to make a living like all the other Venetians. Venice was a sea port on the Mediterranean, and so it's far from inconceivable that there would be a few people descended from African immigrants, even back then. And not just as slaves - one of the 16th century Duke's of Florence was black. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_de%27_Medici Lokiofmidgaard 22:20, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thing is: While being dark-skinned by european standards, north africans are rather light skinned for Africans, usually closer to Arabs than people from south of the sahara desert. 90.134.0.118 17:57, May 15, 2010 (UTC).
 * "What's a black guy doing in 16th century Venice?" - trying to make a living like all the other Venetians. Venice was a sea port on the Mediterranean, and so it's far from inconceivable that there would be a few people descended from African immigrants, even back then. And not just as slaves - one of the 16th century Duke's of Florence was black. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_de%27_Medici Lokiofmidgaard 22:20, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thing is: While being dark-skinned by european standards, north africans are rather light skinned for Africans, usually closer to Arabs than people from south of the sahara desert. 90.134.0.118 17:57, May 15, 2010 (UTC).
 * Thing is: While being dark-skinned by european standards, north africans are rather light skinned for Africans, usually closer to Arabs than people from south of the sahara desert. 90.134.0.118 17:57, May 15, 2010 (UTC).
 * Thing is: While being dark-skinned by european standards, north africans are rather light skinned for Africans, usually closer to Arabs than people from south of the sahara desert. 90.134.0.118 17:57, May 15, 2010 (UTC).

'Deception' Story Arc
I believe Amy Pond is not who she says or thinks she is- based off of her changeable personality, the 'Pond with no Ducks', the fact she acclimatised so well to time travel compared to every other companion, and how in times of danger she seems more concerned with getting one over on the Doctor. Add to that the fact that she aimed that kick very well in this episode- like she may have some hidden knowledge about how the aliens work, because everyone knows Vampires wouldnt be affected by a kick and generally it would make things a ton worse for her... Finally, deception has been a key theme so far- allow me to explain:

Prisoner Zero could shapechange

The space whale 'appeared' to be a starship

The Daleks acted like allies to provoke the Doctor

The Angels appeared to be ordinary statues, even to the Doctor

'What could be so bad that they want us to think they're vampires?'

94.5.58.74 10:14, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * I did think that kick was a bit too well placed, but had it down as a spot of deux ex machina. We'll see. shrodes 11:53, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a mystery surrounding her but I don't think she's being deceptive. The kick I took as either luck, or her just being a bit clever (like she has already been shown to be). I think she acclimatised to time travel well just because its boring for every companion to go through it all the time. Alienatedduck 13:37, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think the kick was just plain lucky. Alpha 111
 * ....why is there no plot written yet? Lu-igi board
 * Ye, why?89.139.20.17 16:42, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * ....why is there no plot written yet? Lu-igi board
 * Ye, why?89.139.20.17 16:42, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Because there hasn't been a substantial plot written for this episode yet. The only one that was posted was copied from Wikipedia, which is not allowed. Instead of asking, why not work on writing one yourselves? Musedae 16:52, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

PLOT
PLEASE refrain from copy and pasting the plot from Wikipedia. Thank you. Musedae 17:11, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

put a plot in yourself then!

The 10,000 Children
Okay the way I understood the episode is that on their travels to earth all the female Saturnynians died, leaving 10,000 all-male Saturnynians. The mother, and one of her sons went onto land (using disguises) to turn human females in to female Saturnynians. At the end of the episode, all the new female Saturnynians are dead, the son is dead, and the mother jumped into the pool as was eaten by the 10,000 children. But what happened to the 10,000 Saturnynians in the pool? I don't remember them being killed? And while I know they cant bread, 10,000 Saturnynians are still 10,000 Saturnynians, and surly (even if they are infants) there will still grow up to be a threat? Or worse be able to continue their mother's plan? - Looq 01:37 GMT - 10th May 2010

The way I saw it was that the 10,000 Saturnynians did not have perception filters, and would not be able to look human, therefore would be unable to go onto land without arousing suspicion. I also thought that Rosanna was the most intelligent of the group, as the mother, and they probably have no idea that Rosanna was the one they ate, so they're just waiting for their "brides." They probably will die out in time. It's just another piece of thread left untied at the end of an episode. Musedae 00:45, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

What I don't get is how all the females were dead. I realise that each female would probably spawn clutches of eggs so they could probably use fewer females to repopulate the species, but even then I don't see how the entire "more than enough" for 10000 males could have comprised the entire sum of females sent to kill the Doctor and that were resultantly blown up with the building. - Nobody 11:00 GMT - 10th May 2010


 * I agree. Given that the vampire girls were the most prized assets, it seems strangely careless for their Mother to send them in as frontline fighters. Another thing: Why can't she just make more females? The loss of a few shouldn't be such a problem, unless there was some extreme time constraint that didn't get mentioned. Hack59 11:31, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * The time constraint wasn't as much a time constraint as much as the interference of the Doctor. Mc hammark 13:27, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Ratings
Hello, I'm not able to edit the main page so I would like to give that information about the ratings, and thus an editor could add it. This episode has been watched by 6.2 million viewers with a share of 30.6% of the audience, making it the most watched programme of the evening.Source

Library Card
What's this about the card saying "Dr. W. Saith"? It clearly says "Dr. J. Smith"


 * yeah which fool changed that to W. Saith? Someone needing glasses certainly. I changed it back to J. Smith as it SHOULD be. If someone wants to rewrite that bit feel free but the name is correct Carnivius Prime 10:37, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Production Errors
One: In the dungeon/basement, the converted girls end every other sentence with Spanish "señor" instead of Italian "signore". Also makes one wonder why the TARDIS didn't translate that bit 90.134.0.118 07:44, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Same happened in The girl in the Fireplace

I think the tardis is just abit faulty. Alpha111 17:32, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Sonic Screwdriver
When The Doctor tries to open the bolted door, isn't that a reference to the sonic screwdriver not working on wood (-> Silence in the Library)


 * I think it was more the fact it was a physical bolt, not a "lock" per say. And the wood thing has confused me a bit, after all in the Eleventh hour when prisoner zero was in that room and the doctor locked it, he said sarcastically "they're all terrified of wood". I'm not too sure where we can draw the line with the whole "it doesn't do wood" part. Mc hammark 14:49, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't remember anything about the particulars of the episodes mentioned above but might the screwdriver be being used on the lock so the wood would remain unaffected. When he locks the door in Eleventh Hour he's just using the screwdriver to "manually" lock a typical bedroom door lock. I don't know what kind of lock was on the door in Silence in the library--maybe it didn't have one and to "lock" it he would have had to cause the wood to swell or something which the screwdriver can't do.
 * In the Library the doors had been closed so long that the wood had fused together - hence why the screwdriver was useless but Donna could open it with a hefty kick. Unhari 18:16, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * In the Library the doors had been closed so long that the wood had fused together - hence why the screwdriver was useless but Donna could open it with a hefty kick. Unhari 18:16, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

production error
i think i found a production error when francesco jumps in the river he has not turned his preception filter off so his brothers would not reconisege him (bad spelling back there) and eat him yet he is in a scene afterwoods!


 * not the same bit of water I think Carnivius Prime 21:09, May 16, 2010 (UTC)