Howling:River Song's Fate

In the name of the doctor, river appeared as her data ghost from the end of forest of the dead. The doctor said she should have faded by now, and she said she couldn't without a proper goodbye. So when she finally faded away, she said goodbye sweetie, which is the opposite of the usual phrase. So was that the latest point in her timeline that we will logically see? And dont reply that we will see younger rivers at earlier points in her timeline, cause i dont mean that. I mean would it make sense to now see a later river? Cause to me it did seem like that was her final death, and that the doctor had come to accept this. --Coop3 ☎  17:33, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

By referencing the data ghost issue, and saying she should have faded by now, the Doctor seems to be saying that this is the latest in River's time stream we have ever seen them interact. And I suppose that the "saving" of the data ghost is less effective than the saving of full blooded people, like Donna and the rest of the people from the Library who were saved. So even though River has been "saved" by CAL, I can imagine that a corrupted file might eventually fail, and what is left of River could die. But what confuses me a little is the notion of "by now."

We know that the Doctor has lived centuries since River died in the Library. And even the time since "Last Night" would appear to be substantial. But "by now" has to be RiverTime. Has anyone figured out when the Library story took place in Normal Time, and when The Name of the Doctor took place, for comparison?

Because River died with the previous Doctor, even though she said goodbye, it was not to "her Doctor". And even though in "Last Night," we see The Doctor knowingly take her on their last date, we know he could not say goodbye without giving away her fate. And we know that just before she sacrificed herself to save the Doctor in the Library, she admonished him not to change a bit of the time they spent together. So the only way for them to actually say good bye would be with her data ghost. And still she seems to insist that if he is to say good bye, it needs to not be a goodbye. Perhaps because she doesn't want to force him into the format of accepting anyone's death, an allusion to her final soliloquy in the Library. Or because she doesn't want to give up hope of ever seeing him again. Or because of spoilers. Only she knows if the Doctor has seen the last of earlier versions of herself. Perhaps for his sake she is hinting that their paths will cross again.

But the Doctor does seem accepting, and River may be perhaps just holding on stubbornly till he is ready. And maybe she realized all along he would never be ready to accept her death until he faced his own. So I expect that with a nod to CAL, River's ghost will cease to exist, and we won't see a still later River visit the Doctor.Phil Stone ☎  16:33, July 14, 2014 (UTC)