Talk:Doctor Who universe

Spin-Offs?
The article states that:
 * Prior to Torchwood and later The Sarah Jane Adventures, Doctor Who had not had a successful spin-off series.

Doesn't the Bernice Summerfield series count as a successful spin-off series? Because it pre-dates Torchwood by about a decade and is still going strong.

Expanded Universe?
I removed this entire paragraph from the article:
 * A related term, Expanded Universe, borrowed from Star Wars fandom, describes persons, events, and stories depicted in the various spin-off materials, as their canonicity is a matter of debate, as well as personal taste and opinion. Some elements of the Expanded Universe have made their way into the mainstream Doctor Who universe. Examples include the two-part 2007 episode Human Nature/The Family of Blood, which was adapted from the novel Human Nature, the 2005 episode Dalek which was adapted from the Big Finish audio drama Jubilee, and The Monsters Inside, a BBC Books novel the setting of which is referenced in the 2005 episode Boom Town.

This definitely needs credible citation. I have NEVER heard the term wholeheartedly applied to Doctor Who by the BBC or any major players in the fan community. "Expanded Universe", especially in the sense that the Star Wars community uses it, isn't appropriate to Doctor Who. SInce RTD, Moffat, Cornell, Tennant and other prominent Who luminaries have repeatedly asserted an all-inclusive approach to (or a distinct disinterest in) canonicity, it is exceedingly difficult to assert that there is an "Expanded" Whoniverse.

More to the point, it is impossible to define "Expanded Whoniverse" in a way that will achieve agreement amongst a majority of Doctor Who fans. Some will say that comics aren't an essential part of their core canon; others will assert that without comics you're missing the heart of the Eighth Doctor's adventures. Some will say that the New Adventures are central to understanding the Seventh Doctor, others dismiss the entire range as contradictory. Hell, some refuse to accept that Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy's televised adventures don't count as "real" Doctor Who; others say that the 2005 series is utter rubbish.

One simply can't define a "mainstream" Whoniverse and an "expanded" Whoniverse. You can define the term "Whoniverse" in a broad enough way that the majority will agree, as the first paragraph does. You can even supplement this with quotations from the mainstream press, and document its history from published works. But the moment you start confusing the terms "Whoniverse" and "canon" is the moment you've descended into personal opinion.  Czech Out  ☎ | ✍ 15:24, 21 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That's fine, I think it started early on in this wiki's development (when we were borrowing from various places to build up bits or act as place holders) and then others just grabbed a hold of the place holders before they could be un-defined. --Tangerineduel 15:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I do believe though, that said erased paragraph, is true, the term has been used to describe Doctor Who, but did originate in Star Wars works. I cannot cite any sources, but am quite sure.90.212.221.122 15:50, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do believe though, that said erased paragraph, is true, the term has been used to describe Doctor Who, but did originate in Star Wars works. I cannot cite any sources, but am quite sure.90.212.221.122 15:50, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do believe though, that said erased paragraph, is true, the term has been used to describe Doctor Who, but did originate in Star Wars works. I cannot cite any sources, but am quite sure.90.212.221.122 15:50, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

first time lord
Who was The First Time Lord?

Does this even exist?
The BBC, the creators of Doctor Who etc. have never used the expression "Doctor Who Universe". The earliest usage of the term was used to include all Doctor Who activities, merchandise etc.(eg. action figures or the Longleat Exhibition would be part of the "Doctor Who Universe", individual stories would not). The usage of "Doctor Who Universe" found here is unique to this website! Attempts for someone to actually properly clarify what it actually means has been met with responses like "this has been asked before" and "that's the way we do it", but there is yet to be a single proper definition of just what exactly the "Doctor Who Universe" actually is. What we have been told is that it's NOT equivalent to 'canon'. It's NOT equivalent to 'continuity'. Nor is it equivalent to 'narrative'. And it's certainly not equivalent to "a list of the Doctor's adventures". It's also not equivalent to "a history of the Doctor's world". We are however told that certain contradictory stories can both be part of the "Doctor Who Universe", while at the same time other stories that fit seamlessly into the continuity, canon etc, are NOT part of the "Doctor Who universe". Certain dubious semi-official spin-off merchandising products ARE part of the "Doctor Who Universe", while at the same time certain adventures produced by the BBC themselves and declared to be canon, official and part of the official continuity are most definitely not part of the "Doctor Who Universe". Clearly then the "Doctor Who Universe" can not be defined by mere words. It is whatever a certain small group of people who edit this site deem it to be at any particular moment in time. It defies a logical, coherent explanation. When confronted with providing a clear description of what it is or isn't one can respond with either "That's the way we do things" or "This has been brought up before". Neither are really good explanations, but perhaps the former IS the ideal answer. The "Doctor Who Universe" is indeed "the way we do things" around here, meaning quite simply that it's illogical, self-contradictory, has no rational explanation, and can not be properly defined.


 * Well, how would you describe the fictional space in which Doctor Who, Torchwood and The Sarah Jane Adventures take place? —Josiah Rowe ☎  23:10, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

But that's till not a proper explanation. "the fictional space where Doctor Who and The Sarah Jane Adventures take place" is a start. But then the BBC themselves decreed that, as an example, Dimensions in Time takes place in the same fictional space. Yet according to this here wiki, it is "not part of the DWU". Meaning the "fictional space" explanation no longer works. Likewise, if we include both Spare Parts and the World Shapers, then said "Fictional Space" must be changed to "fictional spaces". And if we include the BBC Books PDA then PDA #64 must be included. Oh wait that's Scream of the Shalka, and that's "not DWU". And yet there is/was no difference between it and any other PDA. Unless we shift "fictional space" to "fictional spaces". But you insist of space, singular, which is an impossibility. "Doctor Who Universes" may be a better description, considering how many parallel worlds and negated timelines there are.

There is no "fictional space in which Doctor Who, Torchwood, and The Sarah Jane Adventures take place". It doesn't fit. Therefore there is no "DWU". Unless you want to change the definition yet again.