User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-24894325-20170121220436/@comment-28349479-20170123003509

Amorkuz wrote: Great Houses used TARDISes. Great Houses made Lolita. Thus, Lolita is a TARDIS. Has this been decided? Could I have a link please? 'Cos I see a flaw with this reasoning. Could Great Houses make time ships other than TARDISes? They certainly liked time trinkets. What has been the lore at FP is all very new to me. And I would appreciate if you would explain first and shoot second. I will gladly explain this. The OP in Thread:206566 (affirmed in Thread:208233) already addressed that the FP series calls TARDISes "timeships", and Faction Paradox stories make it extremely clear that Lolita is a timeship of the same make as any used by the Great Houses. So the treatment of Lolita as a TARDIS is a straightforward application of that judgment.

Lolita first appears in Toy Story, where she materializes in a way consistent with a Type 103 TARDIS, talks to another timeship (consistent with a Type 40 TARDIS) as her "sister", and makes it otherwise clear that she shares immediate ancestry with the Ship. The following is an excerpt from ''Of the City of the Saved... (novel): More legends are told concerning the 101-form timeship than any other ship of the Great Houses, with the obvious exception of Compassion herself. Although the tales are fragmentary, confused and contradictory, they always agree on two particulars: the 101-form was the first fully humanoid timeship; and it was completely barking – that is to say radically unstable, mentally and perhaps also physically.

There are two distinct variants of the legend. One holds that the 101-form was originally a normal non-humanoid time capsule, which was subjected (or possibly chose to subject itself) to radical and violent biodata-altering agents. In these versions the resultant 101-form prototype was, like those who followed, female in appearance, and wore her designation proudly (though perhaps covertly). She seems somehow to have infiltrated the Houses themselves, and was perhaps used by them as an agent against other civilisations: in secret, however, she never ceased working against them, and for her own ends. Some fringe accounts suggest she gave birth to a race of monsters, a whole species of humanoid timeships separate from the 103-forms and without human ancestry. The second rumor is of no relevance here, though it is affirmed to accurately describe Antipathy, who plays a large role in Of the City of the Saved.... (Note that the passage refers to TARDISes of a certain generation as "#-form" instead of "type #".) In any case, the first "rumor" (quoted above) accurately describes (to a tee) Lolita's actions and behavior in The Shadow Play (audio story), where she acts as an agent of the Great Houses and carries a baby 103-form. I hope this lays to rest the discussion about whether Lolita is a TARDIS.

Note how the first sentence quoted is a speculation. Plus, why wouldn't they use the actual names of their passengers pilots? We know that the Doctor's TARDIS knows the Doctor's name. And has used it. Indeed, why would anyone use lengthy descriptions instead of actual names? Maybe TARDISes are like that, maybe not. We can only speculate. They wouldn't use the names of their passengers and pilots because it's told from the perspective of Lolita, not the Doctor's TARDIS.

Thank you for explaining. And good luck editing that (honestly). I've edited body-changing/body-duplicating stories and remember the agony of coming up with sufficiently many pages for all bodies and all minds and with names for all these pages complying with all policies. I mean, as far as I see it, Lolita stays in the same body, and Fitz stays in the same body; the Doctor's TARDIS just briefly possesses Compassion's body and speaks through her mouth.

So let me ask again. Has it been decided by a discussion on this wiki that the female companion is Compassion, that the male companion is Fitz Kreiner, that the Pilot is the (not just any but Eighth) Doctor. If I missed that discussion, just point to a link to a closed forum thread or an adopted policy. Could I hope for a courtesy of a link? Specifically about Lolita? And specifically about the Eighth Doctor? And specifically about Fitz Kreiner? And specifically about Compassion? I am happy that you agree that your edit to the infobox of The Doctor's TARDIS (DT) that claimed that Lolita is the sister of DT because it is stated in some story that she is the sister of "the Ship" was not based on a valid approved in-universe evidence (and maybe, just maybe was a bit of a speculation). It seems as if you're deliberately misinterpreting me. To clarify, I was trying to say, "". I'm not saying that there's no evidence that the Ship is the Doctor's TARDIS; I'm not saying that there's been a closed debate about whether the Ship is the Doctor's TARDIS. Never did I even once suggest any of those things. Why would there be a thread about the Ship being the Doctor's TARDIS? This is that debate. I'm just trying to lay to rest this distraction about whether Lolita is a TARDIS: as I've said earlier, the fact that timeships are TARDISes was already addressed; I've just demonstrated that Lolita is a TARDIS "timeship" and not some other kind. Hopefully this can lay that non sequitur to rest.