Theory talk:Timeline - Thirteenth Doctor

Plausible gap for solo adventures?
The beginning of Spyfall shows Graham, Ryan, and Yaz going about their ordinary lives on Earth before meeting up with the Doctor again, implying the Doctor could have, indeed, left them for a little bit. Could this give us the excuse to finally place all those currently-unplaced solo adventures within the timeline? WaltK ☎  22:02, January 2, 2020 (UTC)

13 doesn’t seem the type to have solo adventures while still having companions like 12. For all we know, she spends all her time at the garage doing TARDIS work while their off.BananaClownMan ☎  22:13, January 2, 2020 (UTC)

Well the Doctor does mention that they said they’d meet in an hour, and as the Doctor had been running repairs on the TARDIS, maybe not? Honestly I think we should leave it be until either the end of her era or if a clearer gap presents itself. Right now the solo adventures are collected together, they’re just waiting for a placement and I don’t see an issue with leaving them where they are while they don’t have an 100% obvious placement. Plus there’s loads more timeline issues that need to be dealt with now that Spyfall has established has had the Doctor tell the companions about her origins for the first time. SarahJaneFan ☎  16:38, January 6, 2020 (UTC)


 * How so, dear friend?BananaClownMan ☎  19:34, January 6, 2020 (UTC)


 * Have there been instances in non-televised media before this that


 * In deed. Are you saying there are instances in previous offshoots that contradict this element? At the very least, I don’t recall having seen any in the comics, for instance. WaltK ☎  18:47, January 7, 2020 (UTC)

There’s a few books and short stories where the companions are very much aware that the Doctor is a Time Lord from Gallifrey who’s had several other regenerations who were men. The Secret in Vault 13 is probably the worst offender because Yaz is very much clued up on the Doctor's origins and there’s weird inconsistencies about how long they’ve been travelling together. At one point they say it’s been weeks since they first left earth, the next they say they’ve been with the Doctor for months.

Chasing the Dawn has the Doctor recounting an adventure that the Eleventh Doctor has with Amelia Earhart to Yaz, although I’ll have to double check if the Doctor ever describes her earlier incarnation or uses other pronouns but I’d assume yes.

The Good Doctor has the Doctor mentioning Time Lords several times in front of her companions, but Ryan is still reluctant to call Graham grandad. I think there’s also a reference to the Time Lords in the short story with Elvis, which is set immediately after Arachnids in the UK.

The Titan Comics as far I know fit well into continuity, the closest they get is a reference to Missy and an encounter with the Corsair but they skirt around any mention of Time Lords/Gallifrey/The Doctor’s people.

It’s annoying because in theory we’d want the vast majority of stories to go in between Series 11 and 12 as we’ve got a year to play with there. SarahJaneFan ☎  01:42, January 9, 2020 (UTC)


 * Do Team TARDIS ever actually show any awareness of what these things are in these stories (aside from Vault 13)? Part 1 of Spyfall did establish that Team TARDIS were at least aware that the Doctor made references to her having been a man before but, in Graham's case, he never thought anything of it because he believed she was joking. Unless Team TARDIS actually engaged with these references when they were made, they could just as easily be explained as "they dismissed it as more throwaway technobabble the Doctor often spouts" or "I really gotta ask the Doctor what these things actually mean someday". Another possibility is that Team TARDIS did already know a bit of the stuff the Doctor "revealed" at the end of Spyfall, and that they were actually angling for more information when they grilled her, and the Doctor just purposely reiterated the basics of her backstory to them to avoid going into any more detail.


 * Also, Vault 13 is apparently notorious for being super inconsistent on a lot of accounts, including the characterisations of Team TARDIS; a direct result of the writer being given no other information besides official character summaries. Make of that what you will. WaltK ☎  18:52, January 9, 2020 (UTC)

In Fugitive of the Judoon, it's briefly established that the Doctor has recently been leaving Team TARDIS behind to "explore" for an hour or so while she goes off to supposedly look for the Master.

I know I'm reaching a bit here, but with the introduction of at least one solo-Doctor story that very distinctively uses the series 11 TARDIS interior, we should really think about finding a place for these stories soon... WaltK ☎  20:50, February 1, 2020 (UTC)

Well I think Can You Hear Me? have pretty just confirmed that we can’t really place any solo stories comfortably yet. The Doctor isn’t used to being on her own here so I would try not to put any solo stories before that. I wouldn’t say that no solo stories can be placed before Can You Hear Me? at all, but I would suggest that we wait it out until an obvious solo gap presents itself. SarahJaneFan ☎  23:16, February 9, 2020 (UTC)

"The Greatest Movie Never Made"
My edit is constantly being reverted at every turn for some reason, so instead of continuing to counter-edit, I’m just going to use this space to debate.

I believe The Greatest Movie Never Made comes directly after Kerblam!. It’s acknowledged already that Ryan makes a reference to the latter episode by saying he doesn't want to visit another big warehouse. Him saying that makes me believe that the events of Kerblam! having literally just happened; they've just now come from a warehouse, so Ryan says he doesn't want to visit another one. It seems unlikely to me that Ryan would just suddenly come out with it with no prompting if its events happened weeks ago or whatever. WaltK ☎  21:54, February 8, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with this assertion. It’s not impossible that this story comes after Resolution as publication order might suggest, however from the scarce narrative evidence we have, I would argue that directly after Kerblam! with the events of that story fresh on Ryan's Mind makes the most narrative sense. For me, the fact that Ryan brings up the warehouse without any promoting cements an Immediately Post-Kerblam! placement for me. At least based on the little information we have. SarahJaneFan ☎  23:12, February 9, 2020 (UTC)

"Punjab" question
I was wondering, in relation to the Secret in Vault 13 placement controversy, would it at all be possible to interpret the scene with Umbreen's birthday party at the beginning of Demons of the Punjab as happening in the recent past (as in, before Yaz met the Doctor), and not necessarily as "Yaz briefly returned from her travels to attend the party? If it were possible to go with the former interpretation, the problem that currently exists with Secret in Vault 13's placement would be eliminated. WaltK ☎  00:53, March 4, 2020 (UTC)

Thirteenth Doctor in "The Best of Days"
BananaClownMan seems to think the Thirteenth Doctor showed up in the new webcast as the woman who Bill spotted from her flat and instantly took a fancy to, with the only indication being the eyes. I personally think this is a pretty big assumption and that there isn't nearly enough evidence to back it up, but I'd like to hear what the rest of you think. WaltK ☎  16:40, June 8, 2020 (UTC)


 * Definitely too speculative in my opinion. It wasn't like Bill said she was wearing a "grey coat and rainbow striped t-shirt". Bill merely noted she had beautiful eyes, and its a safe guess there are hundreds of people with eyes like that.
 * It's not as if that character was even intended to be the Thirteenth Doctor, like how Professor Stream was overtly intended to be The Master.
 * Epsilon the Eternal ☎  10:07, June 15, 2020 (UTC)


 * Also, as the Thirteenth Doctor appearing in The Best of Days is purely speculation, without any confirmation from Steven Moffat, so why is The Best of Days even on this timeline? If it's fine, I'll remove it.
 * Epsilon the Eternal ☎  19:36, June 24, 2020 (UTC)


 * Way ahead of you. WaltK ☎  01:04, June 26, 2020 (UTC)

Re:Time Lapse/New Beginning placement
A New Beginning' may have an emphasis on beginnings, but it's already placed pretty late into S11's run. What's wrong with just shifting it down by a few places so that it appears on the other side of S11?

The date in Time Lapse isn't an error, but just one of many examples of these offshoot stories from different companies and writers not being made to accommodate each other. Unfortunately, it's hard to reconcile the story's date and placement with each other. If Team TARDIS are somehow still tied to their "present" time and are affected by whatever anomalies are happening in said time period, why are these people from 2018 suddenly being affected by something that is in their future? WaltK ☎  20:41, July 22, 2020 (UTC)

Postcript
I’m just wondering now if PROSE: Postscript should really be on the timeline. The Doctor herself doesn’t actually make an appearance in the story at all, she’s just represented by a postcard sent to the city of the saved. And the postcard itself wasn’t even sent by her, but by her “actualised potential” whatever that is. So I’m just not sure if it’s even worthy of being included to be honest. SarahJaneFan ☎  21:26, September 21, 2020 (UTC)