Howling:The master gone

I was wondering about the master. Now the master went back into hell with the time lords. His body was already dying he probably used up the last of his energy so he is gone dead forever right. Well we know that isn't true he is going to come back sooner or later but in what way. Some people think it is the master causing the cracks I personally don't as it probably would be too soon, after the end of time. Still though the master will be back obviously, but the question is will it be John Simm. Steven Moffat does not want any RTD characters in his doctor who I am not sure if the harold saxon master counts as that. Obviously RTD didn't create the master but he did create that incarnation of the master. Moffat might want a new master though to be fair anthony ainley ran through the last four doctors, and including the five doctors he met the first seven. As much as I liked the john simm master, as he brought a real Joker type quality to the part, I think if Moffat does bring back the Master he should maybe do a more restrained master. The really crazy master has been done alot of times, John Simm Eric Roberts and Anthony Ainley. Roger Delgado I thought was quite restrained, I know he did do some mad things like karate chopping the guy off of the building in terror of the autons but he was more of a mastermind more gentelmanly only going mad if something went wrong. They have done the whole him being a savage animal alot like in Logopolis where he guns down innocent people for no reason, John simm eating people in the end of time, and eric roberts spitting bile at the eighth doctor. A more roger delgado like restrained master who was quite calm and even had some respect for the doctor as opposed to complete loathing would be different to John simms version. Whatever moffat does he has got alot to follow on from the end of time more than RTD did at the end of last of the time lords as not only could the master be back in the time war, but he is in a body that is dying and he has redeemed himself. Where is the master is he able to regenerate in his dying body or will he just steal one like the keeper of traken, and what is his attitude to the doctor now, considering he did sacrifice himself to destroy the time lords, though I reckon that was just because he was pissed off at them rather than to save the doctor. Still it will make for an interesting conversation between the two when they next meet, Moffat will have all this to answer and he will also have to have a really good story to have the master back too. The end of time was a great send off for the master going out like that [that and dalek caan were so much better ways of redeeming villains than Dalek or the awful Jubilee it was based on were] so to bring him back again after he has redeemed himself will need a really good story. Again I am confident Moffat will be able to do all this but I dont think he is doing it any time soon, as a story to wrap all these issues will probably take along while to do, I think moffat is taking his time with that and wont rush into it just to have the master a well known villain in the final. Winehousefan: 19:31, June 9, 2010, [UTC]&nbsp

It has already been confirmed that the cracks are from a big bang that occurs on June 26th 2010, Amy's wedding day. Those people must be idiots to not realise that by now, and to be honest, he might be gone forever now. Just because he came back before, doesn't mean he will again. In fact, it would be ridiculous if he did. Just how many bloody times will he come back? It would be getting rather pointless and stupid, and repetive. What's gonna happen, he gonna keep coming back for the rest of the Doctor's life? Good lord, let's just let him stay dead.

His final story was the perfect send-off, too, and left it closed, in that one would need to make a big stretch to have him return. Redemption, saving his enemy, was the perfect way to end his story. Don't pull a Rose Tyler, and derail his final story with a stupid return for the sake of returning. Delton Menace 04:09, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you Delton Menace that it was the best way to round up his arc and its better to leave it at that. But really I mean there are going to be so many fans that will want to see him returning and he is just one of these big doctor who icons there is no way they are going to leave him. There might still be a way to get the master back and make it good. When I heard that the Daleks were back in season five i thought oh no because I thought Journey's end rounded them up well and thought they shouldn't have them appear for at least a couple of years. Then victory of the Daleks came along and it was quite good, and really didn't think there was much more you could do with the daleks at that point at least, where do you go after you have tried to destroy all of existence. Sadly doctor who [and many sci fi fantasy franchises] have a history of bringing th main villain back when he should have just stayed dead. Alot of people I know think that davros should have stayed dead after Genesis [I don't] because that was the only story he was a complex character in the rest he was just a shouting villain. There is an element of truth to that when you look at destiny of the daleks Davros is just kinda in that story, though I do like later davros stories like revelation. I guess we just have to see if the masters return is a Victory of the daleks or Destiny of the daleks. Evenif Moffat thinks "yeah that was a pretty good ending he will just be back for the sake of it" whoever is doing doctor who after that might think "hey we haven't had the master for a while lets bring him back he is one of the doctors best rougues." and in regards to Rose tyler, I have a feeling that Rose will be back too Billie Piper said its never the end of for the doctor and rose. I reckon that in 2013 when it will be doctor who's fiftieth aniversary then [depending on who's avialable] we will get a whole host of people returning. You will probably get the tenth doctor and rose back, though whether its the other david tennant and her left in the other universe or just them from the past. I.E the eleventh doctor meeting an earlier tenth doctor and rose remains to be seen. I do agree that Rose should have stayed on petes world and not come back all those times. Quite frankly i didn't see why rose should have come back in stolen earth or journey's end she didn't do much did she all this fuss about her, that was it, that was all she did shove a single dalek and get captured by davros. Why didn't he pass off his clone to martha LOL she did about as much as rose. I liked Journey's end it was exciting but it did annoy me the way everyone was undermined for donna, again liked her but I don't want her to be the most important person in all of doctor who ever ever, what was my original point again. Winehousefan: 13:54, June 10, 2010, [UTC]

Don't forget, The Master is a time traveller and as such can appear at any point in time and space. In fact, any time, any place, anywhere, will have 13 Doctors (or any Time Lord/Lady) available, so having The Master turn up is always a possibilty no matter what his fate may have been at a particular time/place. To quote Doc Smith in 'Back To The Future', "you're not thinking fourth dimensionally". The Master, should he reappear, wouldn't be making a 'comeback' he'd just be living the life of a time traveller, i.e. he is everywhere all the time.ChrisL 13:03, June 10, 2010 (UTC)ChrisL

The only problem there though is that we have seen every part of the harold saxon masters life [the doctor fixed the tardis so it could only go to the last place the tardis vistited and the year 100 trillion] and after that he died, was ressurected and brought back and went back to the time war with the time lords not long after. Eric roberts wasn't around for long either and as for the others well the emaciated master was around for a while but icant see them bringing him back, Yana was indisguise for years and obviously we can't have either Roger Delgado or Anthony Ainley's masters coming back either. Still we dont know how long a time passed between roger delgado and the emaciated master the master could have had other incarnations in between, he might have had more before roger delgado so they might show them. The doctor meeting a young troubled master before he goes into villainy has been done in lots of spin off material so they might do that in the actual show as obviously spin off material has been adapted before into tv stuff before. Winehousefan: 14:19, June 10, 2010, [UTC]


 * The Master may be a time traveler, but he was sucked back with the other Time Lords into the time-locked Time War, which time means (oops, sorry, just got used to typing "time" every other word for a second...) that he _isn't_ available all throughout time spacetime for new stories (unless you do a "flashback" story).


 * I have no doubt they'll bring the Master back at some point anyway. He's been on the show since 1971, and they've never gone more than 4 seasons without bringing him back. He's the Doctor's dual nemesis, his arch-enemy, all those other terms. Some writer at some point is going to want to use him. Maybe whoever takes over the show next, maybe even Moffat in a year or two. And they'll come up with some justification.


 * Hopefully Moffat or the next writer won't write him out so permanently next time--just because Cartmel and RTD both had a penchant for wrapping everything up tightly in a big final end (and then unwrapping it again a couple years later) doesn't mean it _has_ to be that way.... --Falcotron 02:22, June 11, 2010 (UTC)