User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-4028641-20151008023030/@comment-6032121-20191105162513

User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-4028641-20151008023030/@comment-6032121-20191105162513 @Schreibenheimer: I'm not sure what you're arguing here, Schreiben. That Legacy presents Delgado as the Thirteenth Master, or that it actually features a non-Delgado 13th Master?

If it's the former, my reasoning isn't so much "this line is definitive proof that Legacy still considers Delgado the Twelfth Master" as "this line means what Legacy says about Delgado is ambiguous, so in light of later evidence that he's the Twelfth Master, we go with that".

If it's the latter… have you read the book? Everything from his just coming off of Frontier in Space, to his speech patterns, to his ownership of a beard (which Beevers' Master famously lacks) points towards this being the Delgado Master.

And even if that didn't convince you, Beevers-as-a-separate-incarnation-from-Delgado hadn't yet been thought up at the time John Peel wrote Legacy of the Daleks, so this becomes a similar discussion to the "two Romana IIIs" one: if two stories unrelated come up with a new incarnation of a Time Lord, which supposedly occupy the same number, but have different faces and histories, do we consider them the same or not? (Leaning towards a resounding "not".)

@User:Bwburke94: Beevers and Pratt's Crispy Masters look different and are played by different actors (who sound hardly anything like each other). Were this any other situation, we wouldn't break a sweat to call them two different incarnations. And even in the hypothesis where they are technically "the same", Beevers is still a version of Crispy who has been significantly enlivened by the influence of the Eye; there has been a transformation of some sort. So whatever version one goes with, it makes some sense to handle them as two different subsections.

@User:RingoRoadagain: Seems a bit weird to have all the post-Delgado pre-Macqueen Masters after Missy. Couldn't we do basically your second solution, but call it "Out of regenerations" or something like that, and place it wholesale between Delgado and Macqueen?