User talk:Victory93

Welcome to my talk page.

Captain Adelaide Brooke Card
Please could you tell me the location of this collectable in City of the Daleks please as it's the final one that I need to collect? Dsrwade23 11:59, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Unmade
Hi. What's wrong with using the template:Nc template? Rather than unmade? It's certainly a lot less...imposing than a huge banner (usually that size is reserved for cleanup style things that get removed later). --Tangerineduel 13:59, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've swapped the unmade for the nc template especially after looking at the unmade template under the new wiki skin that's rolling out, the combination of the large tag, bolded font, fixed width of the page, just means that the tag is a little too big for what it's trying to say. The NC one has practically the same point, the 'unproduced' element of the pages is usually communicated in the first paragraph in any case. --Tangerineduel 16:32, October 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Return to Varnax isn't canon, the use of Varnax in The Infinity Doctors and where ever else makes the name "Varnax" and its description of it in The Infinity Doctors canon. But it doesn't make the unmade work canon.
 * Shada is a unique case in that the BBC released a video version somewhat completing/acknowledging it.
 * The best thing would be to note, within the articles that ideas, concepts or whatever has been worked into later works which are within canon. But I don't think a template is the way to do this. For example Varnax cites canon sources, whilst noting within the behind the scenes section that it was to have featured in an unmade movie in the '90s. --Tangerineduel 12:04, October 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Shada was made into something released and sanctioned by the BBC, in being released by the BBC it's completed sort of and therefore canon.
 * The issue is that those stories that template on aren't canon. The concepts used for example Varnax are canon because of their use in the canon sources. Because they're mentioned in an unmade source doesn't make that unmade source canon.
 * The small text underneath should be worked into the article, not placed within a template.
 * The stories which are listed are unmade, and therefore aren't linked to anything in universe (because those in universe things would link to the canon reference). So there doesn't need to be a tag informing users of that. The articles themselves need to inform people. There is sometimes a case of too many tags on an article. --Tangerineduel 12:27, October 9, 2010 (UTC)

Dalekese
It is a trusim of wiki administration that there are far more people creating articles than there are administrators to police them. Thus, you will always find examples on the wiki of things that "aren't right" according to the site's rules or even just plain common sense. The fact that you can find articles which are based solely on information from secondary sources like reference works means more that we've just not got around to deleting it. It doesn't mean those articles should be allowed to stand.

The problem with Doctor Who reference works is that so many reference works are, frankly, crap. Unlike the Star Wars universe, where many reference works are actually used by writers and therefore "respected", many reference works in the DWU are aimed at younger fans, writers therefore don't treat them seriously, and thus information in them is quickly invalidated. A classic example is Jean-Marc Lofficier's assertion that Polly Wright's last name was Lopez. This came from Lofficier's own mishearing of a line in The Faceless Ones. So not only was it not actually Polly's last name, but the word "Lopez" never appeared in the serial! And there are many, many other examples — including, I'm afraid, "Dalekese". For all intents and purposes, it doesn't exist in the DWU, because no writer has picked up on it.

So reference works can be used to supply secondary information, typically in a behind the scenes section, but they should never be the entire basis of an article.

I think you can briefly mention it in the behind the scenes section at Dalek, but by no means should you try to reproduce the vocabulary list. If you can find a reference to the existence of "Dalekese" in any narrative — and by that, I mean that the word Dalekese must appear in a story — then you may re-create the article and return the vocabulary list. Otherwise, it's really only worthy of a sentence or two at Dalek's behind the scenes section. 09:43: Sun 09 Oct 2011
 * By the way, if Dalekese is going to be anywhere, my guess is that it would be in a Dalek annual. I've recently been reading and writing about these.  I don't recall this word, but it has a very "Dalek annual"-y vibe to it.  I will be on the lookout for it, and if I do come across the word, you can rest assured that I will instantly resurrect your article in toto. In the meantime, I can eliminae some things for you.  It absolutely doesn't occur on screen in any canonical television episode.  I've never heard it in a BF Dalek play written by Nick Briggs, which leads me to believe he isn't a particular fan of the reference work from which you got your information. Given the amount of Dalek material he writes, that's a serious blow to the term's narrative credibility. So I think you're looking for a Dalek annual from the 1960s or 70s, or maybe a very early use of Daleks in an original novel.  Maybe John Peel might have done something with the term, as an obvious fan of Hartnell-era Daleks.  09:56: Sun 09 Oct 2011
 * It's not about whether the work is licensed or not. Obviously The Dalek Pocketbook and Space Travellers Guide is "official" in that sense.  It's about the fact that the BBC has never tightly controlled and edited the things that have gone out with its logo.  Reference works, even if they bear the BBC logo, are simply prone to error.  More to the point, though, this site is dedicated to cataloguing the narratives of the DWU.  RTD has speculated in a non-fiction part of the Doctor Who Annual 2006 that the first salvo of the Last Great Time War was Genesis of the Daleks.  But that's not in a narrative so it doesn't "count" for our purposes.  We can mention it in a behind the scenes section, but we can't flatly sate in the in-universe portion of an article that it is so.


 * You want this article in because you wrote it. I'd love for you to have it in, if you can find a narrative reference for it.  But the situation is no different from the examples you gave of Kaldor being misspelled Caldor. You're choosing to say that it's a "spelling error" or "continuity error" simply because you don't like that spelling, not because Robots of Death actually contradicts it.  I'm saying that must be ignored because it's from a non-narrative reference work.  That reason is a hell of a lot easier to administrate than treating Doctor Who: 100 Scariest Monsters on par with narrative elements.  If we treated reference works on an equal footing to narrative elements we'd have one HELL of a time sorting through a raging sea of bad information.  You make spelling errors seem like a dawdle, but spelling errors are amongst the biggest problems on a wiki.  Nothing matters quite as much, in fact, as the title you place on an article, because it's the article titles, and not the content, which really creates the spine of a wiki.


 * Believe me, I'm not trying to block you, in particular, from doing something cool on the wiki. Silcronian hasn't been "kept"; I've simply not run across that article.  It's now deleted.  Thanks for pointing it out.  If you see other articles like this, please let me know, as I will delete them just as swiftly as I did yours.


 * In terms of the practicalities of administering the wiki, we absolutely need to be able to prioritise the possible sources out there. Thus there are some things which are positively properly licensed which are nevertheless "inferior" information. If we allowed in Dalekese, we'd have to allow in Polly Lopez, Caldor, Wirrrn, and God knows what else.  And that's just not happening.  It's hard enough to justify using "Polly Wright", without also having to allow a redirect from Polly Lopez.


 * It's for our own sanity, really, that we've taken the stance here that narrative trumps everything else. Reference works can be used only in a supplementary fashion on in-universe articles.  Obviously reference works are written from a real world perspective, and thus aren't "in-universe".   Hope that clears things up.    10:53: Sun 09 Oct 2011