Howling:Humans are Timelords?

Ok i was just thinking that with Jack and River's Regeneration abilities could the Human Race become Timelords? Cory Jaynes 01:14, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

jack can't regenerate, he used to be immortal because of the bad wolf (although now that's changed for some reason). but i have also wondered the same thing about that last point, and AGMGTW seems to strengthen that idea. this is my idea: the people at the end of the universe go through the crack the master opened to bring them to earth in SOD but because the paradox machine was broken they instead ended up in the earlier universe on an empty planet which they colonised and called gallifrey. then, because of the untempered shism, they evolved into timelords over billions of years. i don't know if this is consistent with the classic series gallifreyan history, but it makes sense to me. Imamadmad 03:22, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't really fit with what happenned in The Last of the Timelords though. The Toclafane killed their human ancestors, which meant that they could never be born. Once the paradox machine was destroyed, the Toclafane never existed because their ancestors never existed. Once they never existed, they weren't around to kill their ancestors, and thus did exist, and are now back at the end of the universe. Besides, I don't know how floating metal balls would reproduce anyway.Icecreamdif 04:52, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

once the paradox machine was destroyed, the toclafane couldnt have killed their ancestors because the time they were on earth was then errased and that would have been the time that they would have had a chance to kill their ancestors. Imamadmad 05:02, August 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * The idea of humans evolving into Time Lords is a very popular one with some Doctor Who writers. It never made it onto TV (because the show as canceled before Andrew Cartmel could execute his Masterplan), but hints have come up repeatedly in novels (and in online discussions involving some of the authors). There are three main variations on the idea:


 * Humans will replace Gallifreyans as the Time Lords at some point in the future. This was Cartmel's idea, and there are hints of it in some of the NA novels, and some of the BFAs written after the new series started have revived it.
 * Gallifreyans are the descendants of humans in some timey-wimey way. This was Larry Miles' idea, and there are hints in some of the early EDA novels and a few BFAs.
 * After Gallifrey was removed from history (the first time, in the middle of the EDAs), the surviving Time Lords needs a new history that didn't involve Gallifrey, and that new history was that they were descended from humans. This was Justin Richards' idea, but he later decided he hated it, so there are hints in some of the later EDA novels, but then it's completely ruled out in Sometime Never….


 * Some of what's going on this season reminds me a lot of version 2, which is similar to Imamadmad's theory, but not involving the Toclafane. For example, the first hint, in Alien Bodies, was a human from the future scanning as "human+", and then a Time Lord scanning as "human++++". And we just saw Melody Pond scan as "human+". Maybe the Gallifreyans are ultimately descended from Melody.


 * However, this does leave a big problem. You'd need Melody's descendants to go back in time, but then forget all about time travel, so Rassilon and friends could reinvent it. That seems pretty contrived, and it doesn't seem likely that a good explanation would make for a good episode. Also, if Melody has descendants, it's a good bet that they'll be the Doctor's, which means they're already 1/4th Gallifreyan, so the Time Lords still don't descend from humans, they just descend from themselves in a big grandfather paradox, which means there was really no point to the whole "human+" thing in the first place. --173.228.85.35 06:28, August 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * On further thought, something more like #3 seems more in line with the Moff's "history can change" theme—and it could be used as a way to bring back the Time Lords. Some dramatic event in, say, the 2012 Christmas special drastically changes history in ways that we gradually learn about through the rest of series 7, and then in the finale we discover that in this new history, the Time Lords are now descendants of Melody Pond and the LGTW is in their far future, and the only Time Lord who remembers the old timeline besides the Doctor is the Master (because none of the rest of them lived through that timeline, of course). It still doesn't seem that likely, but at least I can imagine Moffat pulling it off, unlike the other two. --173.228.85.35 06:49, August 20, 2011 (UTC)