Howling:Could Jilly Kitzinger be immortal?

At the end of Torchwood: Miracle Day we discovered Rex was immortal. While I have my own theory on how this happened, which I've probably posted on some discussion somewhere, I've been looking at other theories that the Blessing was giving Rex immortality as a gift. Now we saw Jilly running from the warehouse, and seemingly caught up in the explosion. Jack and Gwen never saw her leave the wreckage, so unless she was just unconcious she was pretty much presumed dead. Could it be that she was caught up and blasted by the explosion, but was near enough the Blessing for it to reheal her? It's not a possibility easily ruled out because we saw her alive and well the next day.

And while on the subject of gifted immortality, what about Esther? While I hope it isn't the case, she was certainly near enough to the Blessing. Could Torchwood just have faked the funeral so they could have an agent who everyone presumed dead? Is it possible that if Rex got immortality, everyone who died while the miracle was switching in the immediate vicinity of the Blessing was brought back to life? I doubt it but I'm just interested in other people's theories. 94.72.209.160talk to me 13:32, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

it was stated that the reason that rex became immortal as well was because of jack's blood in him. and was it said that the thing with jilly was the next day? also, she might have been far enough away from the explosion that it didn't affect her too badly. i haven't seen the episode for a few months now but i don't believe there is any much reason to believe that anyone other that rex (and jack obviously) were made immortal. Imamadmad talk to me 13:42, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know who "stated" that it was Jack's blood. The only clue we got was Jane Espenson tweeting that the Blessing gave Rex immortality. But this is too vague. It hardly rules out anything, and doesn't really support anything, either. Now I think about it Jilly said she had been coming to the bench for a few days. But I was surprised how completely unscathed she looked. All this is pure speculation. We can't rule out any theories, but we can support them. 94.72.209.160talk to me 14:08, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

No disrespect to Imamadmad but it certainly wasn't stated in the show that Rex became immortal because of Jack's blood. There wasn't time for anything much to be stated after the characters found out. Each of the three main characters said, "What?" and then Rex asked Jack, "Hey, World War Two, what the hell have you done to me?" and that was that. Rex is assuming his immortality is something to do with Jack. That's a pretty reasonable assumption but he doesn't actually know and he definitely doesn't know how it happened. Besides, even if a character had said that Rex became immortal because he had Jack's blood in him, that wouldn't necessarily mean it was true; a character theorising or guessing isn't enough to establish the theory or guess as actual fact. --89.241.72.64talk to me 19:32, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

PS: The thought of Kitzinger being immortal isn't the most wecome idea I've ever encountered! --89.241.72.64talk to me 19:39, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

Actually the theory that the Blessing gave everyone who died during the switching immortality would cause a lot of problems. We can assume that when Jack resurrects he uses a hell of a lot of time energy. One immortal is bad enough, two could be a strain on the time vortex, but three? And what about Oswald Danes and the Mother? Will it have affected them, too? Not only them, but Esther as well? Already we have six immortals, which will probably bleed the time vortex dry. So it isn't a good theory but there are other potential ways Jilly could have gained immortality. 94.72.209.160talk to me 20:07, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

It's been suggested elsewhere that (for reasons as yet unknown) the Blessing had to operate symmetrically -- hence the need to "feed" it with Jack's blood from both ends at once -- and that this meant that, when the Miracle was ended, one person at either end became immortal: Jack in Shanghai, Rex in Buenos Aires. This is only a speculative suggestion but does make sense. --89.241.72.64talk to me 20:24, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

My personal theory is that the Blessing was unable to tell Rex and Jack apart because they were both feeding it mortal blood, so it duplicated Jack's immortality and fed it to bothe Jack and Rex. After all, 2 x immortality is still immortality. 94.72.209.160talk to me 20:41, December 30, 2011 (UTC)

The end where we see Jilly must have taken place some time after the Miracle ended. There needs to have been at least enough time for her to make enough money to get out of Shangai and back to America. My guess as to Rex's immortality is that the Blessing just assumed that he was supposed to be immortal because he seemingly posessed mortal blood. That theory would rule out Jilly or anyone else being immortal, but we don't really know enough about why Rex became immortal.Icecreamdif talk to me 08:56, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

Well in 'The Gathering' we see a Chinese man who claims "the Blessing saved my life" so we know that the Blessing can reach out to people and save them. Gwen even wondered aloud at Esther's funeral why it hadn't saved her from a gunshot wound. It could be that the Blessing saved Jilly's life, too. It might not necessarily make herimmortal but it's just a theory on how she could possibly have survived the explosion, and not look injured. 94.72.209.160talk to me 18:23, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

It must have taken Jilly a while to get out of Shangai. She spoke of having had to sell her jewellery (sorry, jewelry -- she's American), then she'd need to book a flight, get the flight and then visit the old rendezvous for several days, as she also said she had. That would give her time to recover from having got in Gwen's way, etc. --89.242.75.91talk to me 22:49, December 31, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not saying the Blessing healed Jilly, after all, the chinese man was pretty badly injured, but it could have saved her life. And, as you say, she had plenty of time to recover. 94.72.209.160talk to me 11:44, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

It could have saved her life, yes, but do we have any good reason to believe it did? She could simply have been lucky enough not to catch the main force of the blast. She was, after all, trying to get away; maybe she succeeded. Anyway, if there was nothing unusual about her healing, that makes it very unlikely she "caught" Jack-style immortality because that does lead to unusual healing. --78.146.182.118talk to me 12:10, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

Enough about Jilly, anway. Anyone have any theories aout Esther? 94.72.209.160talk to me 12:29, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

I have a pretty good theory about Esther...she's dead. She got shot, the miracle ended, and she died. Based on how shocked they all were at Rex's immortality, it clearly wasn't something that they had seen before. Then, they went to a great deal of trouble to book Esther a funeral, which was difficult immediately after the Miracle, seemed very sad at her funeral, and wondered why the Blessing hadn't bothered to save her. There is no reason to believe that she isn't dead, and from what we saw it is very unlikely that she is alive. Besides, in Torchwood characters who are not Jack generally stay dead when they die. If they don't (like Owen or Suzie), then they just die again later and stay dead that time.Icecreamdif talk to me 20:11, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not disagreeing with you, but when I saw the funeral scene I noticed something weird... Usually when Jack hears about a death he has this incredibly noticable air of melancholy about him. But at the funeral he didn't seem as upset. Whether or not this is because after the Miracle he felt that death was a good thing, or perhaps that he secretly didn't like Esther, it's odd how he was laughing and joking about how hard it was to book a funeral a few minutes later. 94.72.209.160talk to me 21:47, January 1, 2012 (UTC)

I don't reckon it was weird, in the circumstances. Although he likely was upset about Esther's death, the lot of them had just accomplished a very major mission against heavy odds and (on a selfish level) Jack had got his own immortality back. There's also the natural tendency to refuse to take really dire situations too seriously -- something that showed up, for example, among RAF aircrew during WWII -- simply because it wouldn't be possible to keep going, otherwise. --2.96.23.109talk to me 12:51, January 2, 2012 (UTC)

If there are to be more seasons of Torchwood, then Jilly is bound to return in a future episode one day. Hopefully then she'll tell Gwen and Jack some story about how she managed to crawl from the burning wreckage with horrible injuries. The only possible way BOTH Rex and Jilly could have got immortality is that they both lost blood near the Blessing, but that theory is pretty much ruled out instantly, because Esther also lost blood whilst near the Blessing but she never got immortality, she's dead, Jane Espenson confirmed it. So hopefully one day we'll find out what happened to Jilly in a bit more detail in a future season. 87.102.117.106talk to me 17:50, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

If Jilly told a story like that, nobody with a grain of sense would believe her without cast-iron proof. She's not what you'd call a reliable witness. (Personally, if she told me it was dark at night, I'd feel the need to check for myself.) --78.146.183.1talk to me 22:36, January 6, 2012 (UTC)

So, either Jilly was made a fixed point in time by the Earth's crack, or she just got lucky and merely took a minor blow to the head which rendered her unconcious. I'd go with the latter. 83.100.188.140talk to me 23:44, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

I'd have to agree. 77.86.9.25talk to me 21:59, January 16, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe she's the Rani (sarcasm). 94.72.237.220talk to me 18:35, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

I thought that we had all agreed that the Rani was Madame Kovarian. And Dorium. And Rose. And River. And Amy. And Donna. Actually none of those theories make sense. Oswald must be the Rani.Icecreamdif talk to me 19:23, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

Really? I thought Wilf was the Rani because he was responsible for Ten's death. 94.72.237.220talk to me 21:23, January 17, 2012 (UTC)

Then Peri must also be the Rani because she was responsible for Five's death. And the Rani must also be the Rani because she was responsible for Six's death.Icecreamdif talk to me 01:19, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

ok, can we also make it that we shouldn't mention the r word (rani) on this thread as well? it really is boring and unhelpful. Imamadmad talk to me 04:49, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

The pattern seems to be that once there is no longer anything to say on the subject of a thread, it degenerates into saying that random people are the Rani. I think it's been pretty much established that Jilly is probably still mortal, and there probably isn't any more evidence to support one side or the other than what's already been stated.Icecreamdif talk to me 05:24, January 18, 2012 (UTC)