Talk:List of references to other DWU media in live-action BBC stories

So, uh, the concern I have with this page
There's a lot of "creative re-use" in Doctor Who. Like, intentionally or not, a lot of stories have similarities between them, and it has lent itself to accusations of plagiarism in the past. I personally think this is misguided, as art is a collaborative enterprise, but it is something that exists in our community. If we're going to have this page, how far do we go with it? Do we just list the references that the creatives explicitly state that they're making or are made by the same creators? Do we note cool one off ideas like the time vortex? Or do we also note the accusations of plagiarism leveled at Steven Moffat by Lawrence Miles? (Or really, leveled at him by fans of Miles that Miles then repeated on his blog but said were sorta half true.) This is a touchy subject, which is why I think we need to have a discussion here sooner rather than later. Najawin ☎  00:46, August 17, 2020 (UTC)
 * Basically, I guess, where do we draw the line at coincidence vs inspiration vs homage vs reference vs plagiarism? Najawin ☎  02:16, August 17, 2020 (UTC)

Rename proposal
"List of external DWU references in BBC television stories"? Najawin ☎  01:36, August 17, 2020 (UTC)
 * Hmm… good thinking to trim it odwn, but "external DWU references" is a bit hard to parse at first glance. Also, while I don't imagine there's many people who'd interpret it that way, just saying "in BBC television stories" could theoretically refer to references to the DWU in other, non-DW-related BBC shows (e.g. things like The Lollipop Man).--Scrooge MacDuck ☎  01:42, August 17, 2020 (UTC)
 * "List of references made in DWU BBC television stories to things in the DWU not from BBC television stories." :>
 * I'm pretty sure this thing is just gonna be clunky if we have to be as precise as you're suggesting and we don't use the term "EU". Najawin ☎  01:54, August 17, 2020 (UTC)
 * If nothing else — that is to say, even if we relaxed our rule against using the term, which is just a natural extension of T:NPOV — I believe the term EU would still be quite inappropriate if we're going to include Torchwood, SJA, and even bleeding home video minisodes (which aren't even television!) on this thing. If there's such a thing as a Doctor Who Expanded Universe, SJA is clearly a part of it.


 * How about "List of references to other DWU media in BBC TV stories"? Although that would require we ditch the Brig minisode. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  02:00, August 17, 2020 (UTC)


 * I think the Brig minisode should go as is actually, it's not a television story. We need to instead think of it being part of the "BBC production" to count, which is even more complicated for a title. I think that's fine, maybe the wording could be quibbled with a bit, but in broad strokes it works. Najawin ☎  02:03, August 17, 2020 (UTC)


 * I think Liberty Hall should stay, as it's pretty much like any other mini-sode, such as The Inforarium or The Night of the Doctor, which are considered part of the TV series. Epsilon the Eternal ☎  02:09, August 17, 2020 (UTC)

I agree that those things are part of the production of Series Seven and the narrative of Series Seven, but do not agree that they are television episodes, so would also call for their removal from this page by the strict wording of the title. Najawin ☎  02:13, August 17, 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm with Najawin. I don't think any minisodes should be on the page, even the one that are considered to be part of TV seasons. It just gets messy. DVD extras are "Expanded Universe" by any reasonable metric, whether or not they slot into seasons (which Liberty Halls, in any event, does not). What if a BBC novel is ever marketed as "a bonus episode in Series 17 of Doctor Who", or whatever? What then?


 * IMO, this page is skirting too close to the edges of T:NPOV as it is without giving special treatment to EU things that happen to be live-action. It's a bit unfortunate that we have to leave out things like The Inforarium in the process, but that's the way of the world. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  02:15, August 17, 2020 (UTC)