Talk:Companion

'Unpopular companions'
I removed a line from the Behind the Scenes section in which it was claimed that Tegan was one of the most unpopular companions. Aside from the fact I have never heard this anywhere else (she may not be in the same league as Rose Tyler but I don't see her being ranked down with Adric), it was a rather irrevelant comment more suitable for the article on the character, if anywhere (and presumably with some sort of attribution). The BTS section in general contains supposition and unsourced claims, as is part and parcel of most articles on the wiki, but I just felt that POV statement regarding Tegan didn't fit. 23skidoo 18:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think "most unpopular companion" is something that is down to individuals, and should not be noted in the article. Jack's the man - 18:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * seconded. --Stardizzy2 19:47, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * if I could put that down it would be biuas I third that. --Catkind121 09:23, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Companion Status
What about Lady Christina de Souza? DuduDoctor 08:53, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

As she is a part of the 2009 Specials, she is consider to be one off if I remember correctly, but dont quote me on thatBigshowbower 09:41, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

But Astrid Peth was also like Lady Christina, so why is she in the list?DuduDoctor 10:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The lack of solid definition always makes difficult discussions of who is and isn't a companion. However, Astrid does have a stronger narrative claim than Christina, in that the Doctor asked her to be one, and she accepted. Christina was explicitly denied entry to the TARDIS. In fact, Astrid seems more a companion to me than Grace, who largely gets on these lists because she's the only likely candidate from the Eighth Doctor's lone televised appearance.  Czech Out  ☎ | ✍ 14:14, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Christina da Souza belongs. the press did promote her as the Doctor's companion in the special. also, the Wiki has listed her as a companion of the Tenth Doctor elsewhere. --Stardizzy2 00:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Grace also qualifies because she is explicitly invited, but declines. That places her in the same category as Donna Noble as of The Runaway Bride. And of course the "must travel in the TARDIS" rule would actually disqualify Liz Shaw while strengthening Grace's case. The one that's tricky (even though I suggest he be included in the thread below) is Jackson Lake because technically the Doctor was his companion, rather than the other way around. Heck, the Doctor even got to ride in Jackson's TARDIS! 23skidoo 04:22, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Even by the loosest standards I don't see any argument for claiming Adelade was a companion. She was no more a companion that the hundreds of major characters who helped the Doctor out over the years. I think the only reason folks like Adelade, Astrid, Jackson, etc.. are even considered as companions is because the Doctor wasn't traveling with anybody at the time. There would be no discussion if the Doctor ran into these types of people with a companion already in tow.


 * The "problem" with Astrid etc. is that some companions are officially named companions by the BBC whereas others (like Sara Kingdom) are "only" considered companions by fans. My personal opinion is that a person does not have to travel with the Doctor in his TARDIS to be qualified as a companion but must have a major role to play in one of his adventures by, for instance, filling the traditional role of a companion, that is, giving the Doctor a stand-in for the audience who he explains the situation to. I guess, in the end, it's all a matter of popularity: who cares about Adam Mitchell or Lynda Moss? One is an official companion who might as well never have joined the Ninth Doctor and the other one is a would-be-companion who no-one remembers because the Doctor already had Rose and Jack with him. EltharionDrax 16:34, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Jackson Lake missing from Companion image
Since the infobox image of the companions includes the one-time companions, then Jackson Lake needs to be included as well. 23skidoo 04:18, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

I agree, and Rosita should be too. Also on an unrelated subject, Astrid, Christina, Adelaide and Wilf don't travel with the Doctor and are in the image, yet the Brig, Benton, Mike Yates and Jackie Tyler aren't.I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit 07:43, December 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the companion montage thing is way over the top. It's trying to be complete without realizing that it can't be complete.  This article should be about companions, regardless of medium, so the image is missing easily 20 people.   Where are the comics companions?   Why is Sara Kingdom there?  Why isn't, as is said above, Jackson there when Adelaide is?  Where's the Brig?  Where's Destrii?  Where's Izzy (the record-holder for most time served in a visual medium)?


 * We could ask these questions all day. I think ultimately this thing needs to be changed to something much simpler so that it doesn't look like we're trying to be completists and therefore invite all these questions.  I say make it Susan, Sarah Jane, Jamie and Izzy. (The first companion alongside three companions who have a claim to the title "longest serving", by virtue of different criteria.)  Again, just don't make it look like we're trying to be complete, because we can't be.

River Song, Companion of the Tenth Doctor?
I find it strange that River Song is not listed among the Tenth Doctors companions, as she is arguably more important to the Doctor than his other one-off companions, something that her posessing his Sonic Screwdriver and knowing his real name proves. One might argue that she did not travel with the Tenth Doctor, but neither did a handful of other people that are considered companions. Please add arguments against naming her a companion of the Tenth Doctor. EltharionDrax 16:21, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Romantic feelings for Amy?
Under relationships "In series 5 there are hints that even though she is married the Eleventh Doctor has feelings of this sort for Amy Pond, although the producers are yet to confirm this." This line is just all wrong. Maybe it was written before series 5 started (or at least before it finished)? So far he has been not been shown to have romantic interest in her, has in fact rejected her overtures. And she's engaged, not married, until the end. Even if this actually meant for series 6, the first part still stands. Don't want to step on anyone's toes, though, by just deleting it, in case in a conflation of two sentences or something that meatn soemthing different and somehow ended up edited this way. Or there's something behind the scenes that backs up this statement, because I generally stay away from the behind-the-scenes stuff so as not to be spoiled for upcoming storylines.216.226.176.142 20:07, July 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Removed this bit, since no one commented on it. 216.226.176.142 17:52, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Remember to maintain in-universe style
Don't forget that the Style Guide mandates that unless an article is designated a "Real World" article, anything that is not under the header "Behind the Scenes" has to be written as if it's a history of real events. I just went through portions of this article to remove "out of universe" material, in particular I had to move the entire "Non-platonic relationships" section (which I think may have originated in another article) down to Behind the Scenes as it was all about production. I also deleted the speculation line about "feelings for Amy" my fellow anon above was concerned about. It didn't belong there was it was not based on any on-screen evidence. 68.146.81.123 03:59, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Definition?
...So what is precisely the definition of a 'companion'? Is it someone who travels with the Doctor, or does it include people who have merely shared an adventure with the Doctor? -- Bold  Clone  21:47, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

Kazran/Abigail Front Page Photo
Abigail and Kazran are classified as companions of the Eleventh Doctor, but they don't appear in the line-up. Is there reason behind this? Void Dreamer 23:55, December 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Possibly because the exact nature of their companionship is unclear (all the Doctor did was visit them once a year and take them someplace). They weren't full-time companions, nor were they one-off; they were more like 'occaisional' companions.
 * A new picture (or new version of the picture) needs to be made. -- Bold  Clone  23:15, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * As I said above, it's pointless to try to keep this photo "current" or "complete", because both goals are actually impossible. It needs to be pared way back to four representative companions.

Cutting stuff
Wow, this article is really out-of-universe. The whole article, except the BTS section, needs a complete rewrite. I've never seen an article this long that didn't have a single instance of the proper, past tense sentence construction. Worse, whole sections are predicated on a fan definition of companion. Although I think the entire main body of the article should be nuked, I'm paying special attention, here, to these kinds of sections. That is, sections that are BASED on out-of-universe, "fan" concerns are being yanked from the article wholesale and moved here. Honestly, they shouldn't go back into the main body of the article, because they reveal a very fannish bias.

Lurrvv
Up first is a totally silly section that uses our own pages as "references". Seriously, this one can't go in again without heavy, heavy editing. I mean, in an in-universe section, we're saying it's "often debated" by which we clearly mean it's often debated by fans, not by characters in the DWU (except for the limited case of Ten/Donna). We're also using the Prime Computer ads of the 1980s in an in-universe section! An anon user rightly criticized it upthread. Don't put it back. What this section is really saying is that it's weird for the Doctor to be in a romantic relationship, and canonically, that's not true. We've got Jacobs, RTD and Moffat, not to mention some novel writers, showing him as a sexual being. So this whole discussion of "whether it's right" is quite OOU.
 * ===Non-platonic relationships===
 * Also often debated is whether or not the Doctor is asexual or ever took his relationship with any of his companions beyond friendship. Due to the original series' perceived status as a "children's program", any hint of romance between the Doctor and his companions was discouraged. One often-cited possibility is the relationship between Romana and the Fourth Doctor, especially in the hindsight of knowing the real-life romance between Lalla Ward and Tom Baker. This is actually supported by an unusual source: a series of TV commercials Baker and Ward filmed for Australian TV in 1980; advertising Prime Computers, the ads featured the Doctor and Romana; the third ad showed Romana flirting romantically with the Doctor, and ends with the Doctor proposing marriage to her. These ads are not considered part of the canon.


 * The implication in School Reunion that Sarah Jane Smith was indeed in love with the Doctor has led to further debates as to whether similar feelings were shared by other "classic series" companions, including Jo Grant. It was not until the 1996 telefilm that the Doctor was shown in an unambiguously romantic circumstance with a companion (albeit a one-off one), when he kisseed Grace Holloway before departing (their first kiss can be attributed to the Doctor's excitement, though Grace later says in the film that she'd "fallen" for him). This was followed by the Doctor and Rose Tyler experiencing a form of romance which underscored the events of Doomsday, The Stolen Earth and Journey's End. In addition, Captain Jack Harkness, Martha Jones, Jackie Tyler, Madame de Pompadour, Astrid Peth and Lady Christina de Souza have all expressed romantic or flirtatious feelings towards the Doctor. In most cases, he did not reciprocate, although his Ninth incarnation indulged in some flirtatious banter with Harkness. In Donna's case, she stated specifically that she was just a friend and refused to even consider a romantic relationship due to him being alien and a "skinny streak of nothing". Amy Pond made advances towards the Eleventh Doctor, who seemed baffled and awkward, choosing to go through a list of reasons why it's wrong, including his age and immortality. (DW: Flesh and Stone) The Doctor has reticently admitted that more than half of his companions have been female and that one or two might have been attractive, but he prefers to see himself as a Gandalf or Yoda-like figure who needs companions to see the universe through. However, indulging Amy, the sentient TARDIS teased him over the amount of female companions that he has had.

Narrative function
Next is a whole section which explains the narrative function of a companion. I suspect this could be pared down to a single paragraph for the BTS section, but it's got no business in the DWU section of the article.
 * ==Role==
 * The role of companions in the narrative vary. Usually, they play the role of stand-in for the audience by giving the Doctor a reason to explain what is happening in the story and what he is doing. In the case of the First Doctor, who was more frail than his successors, male companions were included for the purpose of action scenes and to add a heroic element. Companions also often get into trouble, requiring the Doctor to rescue them. A number of actors have expressed frustration at the limited nature of the companion role in the original series, and this has been a factor in the decision of many female actors in particular not to extend their periods on the program.


 * The degree to which companions are developed varies. The revived series focused on giving companions depth as characters. There has been extended exposition on both the impact the Doctor has on the lives of the companions and their emotional development while travelling with him, as well as the lasting impact he has on their lives once they leave. As well, the Doctor's need for companions (in order to alleviate his loneliness, to help him keep his bearings, and to avoid getting too far involved in his conflicts) has also been explored. Additionally, a companion's family and the effect their travels with the Doctor have on them has been further explored, with the family members also taking major roles in some storylines.


 * In the original series, some attempts were made to depart from stereotypical depictions of female companions. Zoe Heriot was a mathematician and a genius whose technical knowledge was, in some instances, greater than the Doctor's. Liz Shaw was UNIT's scientific advisor who was on leave from Cambridge University. Sarah Jane Smith was a career woman whose initial interest in the Doctor stemmed from her profession as a journalist. Leela was depicted as a deadly, athletic fighter. Romana was a fellow Time Lord whose academic record was superior to the Doctor's. Romana II, in particular, was depicted as very much the Doctor's equal and even shared the Fourth Doctor's sense of humour and whimsical nature, in contrast to the more austere Romana I. Finally, Nyssa was gifted in bioelectronics and had other advanced scientific knowledge, and was one of the few companions capable of operating the TARDIS.


 * In some cases, companions take up the role of protecting Earth when the Doctor is gone, such as in the case of Rose Tyler, Martha Jones, Jack Harkness and Sarah Jane Smith. The new series also shows that while his companions alone could deal with some of the threats to Earth that the Doctor deals with, dealing with them alone can cost their lives. It also shows how important the Doctor is to the protection of Earth. In an alternate reality where the Doctor died, all of his companions died protecting the Earth until all that was left was an alternate Donna Noble and the correct Rose Tyler. Donna and Rose changed history to save the Doctor and the universe, with the alternate Donna even sacrificing herself to do so (DW: Turn Left).


 * It's also been shown that in some cases, the Doctor simply cannot save the day without the help of a companion. It took the aid of Rose Tyler, Jackie Tyler, Mickey Smith, Martha Jones, Jack Harkness, Sarah Jane Smith, the Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor and Donna Noble to defeat Davros and his plans (DW: The Stolen Earth/Journey's End).

'''There is no article on the entire wiki that currently needs more help than this one. We just can't have one of the most-linked articles on the whole wiki in this bad a shape.'''

The main photo
Pursuant to a couple of things said above, I've now changed the photo over into something which is much simpler and doesn't at all give the (very false) impression of being exhaustive. It's just, "Here are four companions to show you, the reader, what kind of characters we're talking about." The companions chosen do not represent my particular biases, but rather illustrate the concept in terms of four companions who are important for different reasons. It's first companion, longest-serving comics companion, first companion of new series/post-time war, longest-serving male companion. That's a perfectly adequate representation of the concept; we don't need more than that to illustrate what a companion is.

I'm not sure the image needs Izzy Sinclair, the comics aren't always seen as being canon by some fans. Personally, I would suggest K9 (a non human companion) or Sarah Jane Smith (being one of the most popular companions and having her own spin off) Just a suggestion though.211.31.195.107 05:56, February 28, 2011 (UTC)