Forum:The Doctor's Species

Should all incarnations of the Doctor be described as "half-human" on the pages, because I've never thought of him as being half-human, apart from the Eighth Doctor?--GingerM 18:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If we're going to have a discussion about this, then I think we should have all the "for" points and all the "against" points about all the Doctor's incarnations being half-Human or not. Only problem is, I don't know where to start... 19:05, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah man, this is one of those times when I regret never seeing the movie. Now I have very little constructive ideas to add... Azes13 20:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Half-Human before the Eighth Doctor: Against

 * The Doctor turned temporarily human in the Seventh Doctor novel Human Nature. that might have affected his biodata or whatever.
 * The Master seems as surprised as anyone that the Doctor has a human eye print (unless the Doctor did a really good job of hiding the evidence).
 * Alternative fan theory, that Grace Holloway's DNA "infected" him during the operation prior to his regenerating.
 * (Vague proof) During his regeneration from Ninth to Tenth, he was talking about how he could regenerate with 3 heads. This may imply that Time Lords can switch species during regeneration. That, or they can really screw up their genes. Or he's just joking.
 * The Interference books showed that Time Lords could regenerate into virtually anything.
 * Many of the early episodes with the First Doctor show his disdain for the human race and he speaks of himself and Susan as travellers from another world, making no reference whatsoever to him being "half-human".
 * The Second Doctor willingly submitted to the Dalek Factor thingy in The Evil of the Daleks, knowing it wouldn't affect him. dialogue in the story indicated the machine only affected humans and that it had no affect on the Dotor for that reason. (of course, dialogue in that story indicated that the Doctor travelling through time had made him more than human.)

Half-Human before the Eighth Doctor: For

 * The Doctor said "half-human on my mother's side", meaning he didn't get his human half via some artifical means but was born with it, and therefore all incarnations would be half-human as his mother doesn't change every time he regenerates.


 * That might be a good way of setting it out, but what about after the Eighth Doctor? Or just "Not only the Eighth Doctor"? Other points:
 * In the TV movie the Doctor had only recently regenerated, so how could he have known whether he was half-Human in just that incarnation so soon?
 * However, Gallifreyans could have a second sense about it.
 * Well, none of the Doctors seem to know what they look like after regenerating. You'd think guessing your species would be even harder. Azes13 20:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The Tenth Doctor said that calling himself Human was "optional" for him in The Runaway Bride, perhaps saying that he could say his Gallifreyan or Human side was his and still be right.
 * However, it could be saying that he was only half-Human in one of his incarnations, that is why it is optional (if you get what I mean). Or it might not have anything to do with it.
 * Some of the Doctor's incarnations (such as the Fourth and Tenth) had a great liking for Humanity - even the Fourth Doctor described it as "irrational" in The Ark in Space.
 * However, this doesn't explain some Doctors' dislike for Humankind (such as the Ninth, who refered to Humans as "stupid apes" in Father's Day.
 * ...and so on. 20:13, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think the Doctor regarding humans a certain way counts as evidence. --***Stardizzy*** 20:17, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No, I suppose I just have this idea that some people tend to prefer something because they are something. Bias, basically. 20:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I think we have to take a bit of a step back from this. There are a lot of contraditions and discrepancies in the Doctor Who Universe and this is just one point that there is no firm evidence to support a conclusive stance. I don't think it is up to us to try and iron out the inconsistences of Doctor Who but just to record them. All we need here is a line in the Eighth Doctor's bio saying something like 'Shortly after his regeneration, the Doctor claimed to be half human on his mother's side. The full truth, if any, of this statement is unknown.' There could then be a separate article elsewhere that explores the issue much as it has been above here.
 * We must be careful not to start making judgements about the facts. The Doctor Who unvierse is not seemless or consistent and it is not our job to try and make it appear as if it is. --Mantrid 07:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's porbably the best idea so far... so do we remove the "half-Human" part from the infoboxes now? 09:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Have to agree. Yes, I think we remove the half human bit, but maybe (to satisfy those who adhear to the half human bit) put a link to the 'Is the Doctor half human' (or whatever the page is going to be called). That way while not stating it as fact or not, there is at least a link to the information for/against. --Tangerineduel 13:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * But what would the page contain? What would be its layout? 13:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Evidence for/against the half human theory, expanded on what is already on this page more or less.

Maybe link it to some other pages to do with regeneration, biodata, that sort of thing, to allow people to see the arguments (from sources within Doctor Who), rather than supposition and argument. I'm sure we can come up with at least a few references to the half human thing, or at least sources which back up / disprove it...(admittedly off the top of my head I can think of a lot more sources disproving it rather than proving the theory). --Tangerineduel 14:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

The Star Wars Wiki has a few pages of the sort that we're talking about. Take a look at http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Contradictions as an example. --Mantrid 14:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Disorientation
I have 2 theories against.
 * He was disoriented (memory loss ect...) and other Doctors have done stupid thing after their regenerations, one in particular...
 * When he was talking to that professor who made that clock thing, he told him "a secret" about him being half-human as a distraction to get his i-d card, according to this
 * "Grace, a board member of ITAR, introduces the Doctor to Professor Wagg, creator of the clock. As the Doctor tells Professor Wagg "a secret" ("I'm half-human on my mother's side"), he surreptitiously removes Wagg's security pass. Grace and the Doctor steal a small component from the clock. "

A solution...of sorts
Change the Race to Gallifreyan - Time Lord for every Doctor except the 8th Doctor, as the 8th is the only one where there proof in dialogue that he (may or may not be) half human. --Tangerineduel 15:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The problem of that is that it is not known whether it was just the Eighth, and I said/typed before I think it seems unlikely that just the Eighth was half-Human. Anyway, someobdy is probably gonna change the other Doctors to "Half-Human Half-Gallifreyan" anyway. Perhaps we could have "Gallifreyan (Time Lord) (possibly half-Human)"? 15:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Physical/biological evidence
During the movie the master scanned the doctor and he was shown to have the retinal make up of the human eye,so the idea that the doctor simply claimed to be half human in the diologue as a distraction would seem to be discredited.

Something which seems to support the theory that the doctor has always been half human is the fact that the first doctor only had one heart,this inconsistency has already been discussed in another forum.

A third fact that I have realised is that according to the events of Lungbarrow the doctor was loomed and so had no mother,and if he has no mother he can have no mother's side.I suppose,as the doctor is a loomed version of The Other it is possible that the other was half human on his mother's side and this trait was passed on to the doctor666hotline 15:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, there's actually quite a neat explanation offered by COMIC. I actually nominated the thing for an upcoming QotW:
 * "I once convinced my most hated enemy that I was half-Human with nothing more than a wide-eyed expression, a couple of words, and a half-broken chameleon arch. Compared to that, this'll be a doddle."
 * — the Eighth Doctor trying to inspire his temporary, Malmooth companion, Chantir, to join him in a prison break. (COMIC: The Forgotten)
 * In other words, the half-Human thing was all a hoax. Works for me a hell of a lot better than citing a whole bunch of other sources.  This is a simple, direct statement from the Eighth Doctor himself.  And, as far as I know, there's absolutely nothing to contradict writer Tony Lee's explanation.  Czech Out   ☎ | ✍  23:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Why Eighth?
Why are we so focused on the eighth? If he mentioned his mother, surely the main questions are:

Is he actually half human? If so, for how many incarnations after his first?

I don't see how just because the eighth Doctor said it, suddenly thats incarnation is under scrutiny. I just dont think it matters if the sixth or ninth or tenth Doctor said it, the point is he talks about his mother. Therefore, if he was/is actually half human, then it would affect affect him from his first incarnation, after that it is arguable.

"But wait!" I hear you say "The eighth Doctor said he IS half human", yes he did, but he could be talking metaphorically. If your mother has human, wouldn't you always consider yourself half-human? No matter if you did become full Gallifreyan biologically later? Taccer 07 09:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)