Talk:The Doctor (Battlefield)

Merge
Given that The Collection establishes that Muldwych and Merlin are the same incarnation, can we merge the two articles? --Pluto2 (talk) 04:19, December 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * In what way? Muldwych could just be an incarnation after Dokien. CoT     ?  03:19, December 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * Muldwych gives rings to Benny in Happy Endings. Collection has Dokien recalling doing so recently. --Pluto2 (talk) 03:27, December 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * Can I have a quote on that? I'm not finding anything of the sort while skimming through. CoT     ?  03:40, December 28, 2016 (UTC)


 * It's near the end. Jason is mad at Brax for giving Dokien the rings, claiming they weren't his to give away. Brax responds with "Where do you think you got them from in the first place?", confirming Muldwych = Dokien. --Pluto2 (talk) 01:01, January 3, 2017 (UTC)


 * All that confirms is that Dokien = the Doctor. CoT     ?  01:53, January 3, 2017 (UTC)


 * What in that story confirms that Dokien is THIS Doctor? There's no mention of any type of description, or even a mention of Merlin. 99.226.85.206talk to me 17:55, February 18, 2017 (UTC)

That absolutely does not confirm that they are the same incarnation. All it confirms is that this incarnation is the Doctor and Muldwych is also the Doctor. Also I've removed references to this Doctor being Merlin since that apparently was mentioned entirely from an out-of-universe p.o.v. OS25 (Talk) 16:23, March 9, 2017 (UTC)

Battlefield
Pretty sure this Doc appears in the novelisation for Battlefield. CoT    ?  16:06, March 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * All I've seen so far is that the author planned to imply that the two were the same incarnation. I've seen no solid evidence -- not even a single quote -- to suggest that this actually ended up happening.


 * Also: We can not definitively say that Merlin is anyone or anything. Because the Eighth Doctor is also Merlin. And I'm sure that at some point someone else will be Merlin. Someone will probably retcon the War Doctor into being Merlin before someone else writes a TV story about the twenty-second Doctor being Merlin. OS25 (Talk) 16:40, March 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * A search found this:
 * "‘A once and future king?’ complained Merlin. ‘Dear oh dear, I thought we’d given up all that nonsense.’ He shook his head of unruly red hair in irritation. ‘Isn’t enough ever enough?' "
 * "From his tatty embroidered Afghan coat, Merlin tugged a floppy hat of brown felt."
 * CoT    ?  16:47, March 9, 2017 (UTC)

Red hair and an afghan coat, those pieces make some sense. Authorial intent combined with in-text sources

I dislike the idea of claiming that every story with Merlin has to be this Merlin, and also we simple can not go around claiming that this account's version is the "ONE AND ONLY MERLIN."

Also, The Doctor (Battlefield) is a terrible title, and it simply won't do. It sounds like he appeared in the TV story. We should go with the second PROSE story he appeared in as the DAB. OS25 (Talk) 16:53, March 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * Obviously there are multiple Merlins. The Eighth Doctor never wore an Afghan coat! :p We're not gonna merge Christopher Marlowe and William Shakespeare any time soon.


 * I think we should keep the page where it is, though. This Doctor's most notable appearance was probably in Battlefield. That's what he's known for. If anyone thinks this Doctor appeared in the TV story, they can read the article and see that we cite the novelisation. CoT     ?  17:05, March 9, 2017 (UTC)


 * My problem is that individual pages ignore discrepancies and sit in their own little bubbles. Before today, this page never mentioned other stories with other Merlins and meanwhile Merlin never even touches this character.


 * Also, Battlefield isn't even fully his story. It's a Seventh Doctor book. So the best idea to avoid confusion would be to change the name in favor of his first stand-alone story. OS25 (Talk) 17:13, March 9, 2017 (UTC)

I came to remove the rename tag only to see that someone else had already done it. Good show. OS25 (Talk) 10:43, March 12, 2017 (UTC)

Merge Take Two: Electric Merlinoo
I've slapped a merge tag on this page. CoT and OS25 were right to tell Pluto2 that The Collection does not necessarily establish that this Doctor is the same as Muldwych; however, taken in conjunction with PROSE: Happy Endings, I think the link is pretty clear. In that story, Muldwych is described as "a plump little old man in a long white robe, with a mass of grey hair, streaked with red"; compare with how "short with red hair" is practically the only description of the Merlin Doctor in Battlefield. Sure, you might say, that's just a similarity in description, not a sign of identification; but consider also that in Happy Endings, "Blake and Muldwych were deep in conversation with Hamlet Macbeth concerning the origin of Excalibur. At one point, Muldwych looked up and caught the Doctor's eye. He turned back to the group and cleared his throat. 'Ah, perhaps we could talk about something else...'"

- Happy Endings (novel)

That's an extremely clear reference to the Battlefield Merlin Doctor, and with this in mind, the line from Collection where Braxiatel identifies Dokien with Muldwych is just more evidence. I think that's sufficient evidence to merge this page into Muldwych. (I've suggested that the merge take place in that direction, rather than vice versa, to settle the naming issues mentioned by OS25 last March; however, I rather like The Doctor (Battlefield) as a title, so I'm open to other opinions.) – N8 ☎ 00:09, February 18, 2018 (UTC)