Talk:The Pandorica Opens (TV story)

Title reference? Tardis1963 00:22, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

The reference is on the series 5 article page, is it not? Plus, nearly every title this series that has been given beforehand has come true and the events of the finale were refered to as "The Pandorica Opens" in Flesh and Stone, and the title was given long before then. Heck, The Eleventh Hour title was given long before it aired, and people wouldn't accept it. The likliness is that this is the title, so let's stop being so damn highhorse. Delton Menace 00:57, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

New Picture for this episode http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KTJWhtuRLac/S_2shtln0sI/AAAAAAAAKd0/QXC6maWezCY/s1600/finale2.png

Ridiculous Rumours
With this being the series finale, we are constantly going to be givin lots of rumours on the page, some which have been around for a while or some that we are going to have heard by someone who made up. We need to have all rumours sourced to help the page from getting constantly being barmbarded with pathetic rumours, if not they will be deleted. -- Michael Downey 08:39, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Are you expecting the Rani rumours to surface like every other year? To be honest, there are pretty much few rumours this finale because of the lack of info. All we really know is something to do with a load of aliens featuring and Stonehenge and River Song. The only pure rumour is Omega. Delton Menace 13:36, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

For now and unmessyness
Until it confirmed and the episode airs it is hard to determine which aliens who are appearing will be a villain/enemy so I have placed all confirmed appearances of previous aliens in the story notes section until it is actually confirmed who will be the villains as it helps to stop people messing with the infobox. -- Michael Downey 11:54, May 22, 2010 (UTC).

Enemies
Just putting this here as I don't want to go putting it on every talk page of the enemies appearing. Shouldn't we wait until they appear before saying that they are an Eleventh Doctor enemy or appear in these episodes? It may just be a false rumour for all we know. Or a trick. ☆ The  Solar  Dragon  ( Talk ) ☆ 21:35, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

It's not a rumours, it's actually supposed to be confirmed from those who get the biggest spoilers. They saw various filmimg images that revealed all of those enemies appearing in the finale, but they aren't aloud to make the pictures public until a certain date, or they could get into big trouble with the BBC. Delton Menace 01:43, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

What if things that fall into the time cracks appear in the Pandorica? That would explain the Cybermen and Daleks?

Why is it that people keep changing the enemies in the info box? Alpha111 20:27, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

i think that if you fall into a crack you are enlisted into the cracks cuasers army like daleks and cybermen and one pic of the aliens in harmony not fighting Drwhoworld 10:41, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

“There was a Goblin. Or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it – one day it would just drop out of sky and tear down your world.”

Surely this is The Doctor.

The Doctor being dragged to the open Pandoricaby Roman soldiers. Various enemies seen standing around. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsmXrhE2Hgk&feature=related. 74.100.68.109 02:18, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

so far the only enemy that can be definately confirmed in The Pandorica Opens are the "Cybus Cybermen". Sclera1 07:25, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Omega and the Dark Tower/Death Zone
To the best of my knowledge, the only source for Omega is "some video on YouTube said that someone on the set saw someone who looked like Omega come out of the Pandorica". (And I wasn't able to find such a video, but then I'm not sure what to search for.) Is that really enough to qualify as a rumor?

And the only source for the Dark Tower/Death Zone seems to be an anonymous blogger and a 13-year-old video blogger who both came to the conclusion that if there are lots of different enemies, the Death Zone is probably involved. The video blogger also based this on the hoaxed name for episode 13, "Enemies of a Time Lord".

If we're going to include these rumors at all, I think it's worth putting more than a fact tag. Maybe we could say that these are completely unsourced in mainstream media and are only the speculation of a few fans. --Falcotron 07:24, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Crack in Time in City of Death
In the classic story 'City of Death', when Romana's picture changes into a broken clock, on the face of the clock is a crack, just like the crack seen this series.


 * Please sign your posts on talk pages with four tildes. Also, if you start your post with an extra space, it makes it unreadable. (I fixed this for you.) --Falcotron 08:47, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Edit war over synopsis
User:Olilorry and User:The mysterious have been undoing and redoing the same change, at least 4 times in the past 2 hours, using either no edit comment, or the exact same one ("we need a more informal synopsis") each time. Here are the two versions:


 * A Van Gogh painting is ferried across thousands of years, communicating a disturbing prophecy to the Doctor. In 102AD England, Romans receive a surprise visit from Cleopatra. Nearby, Stonehenge conceals the Pandorica, a prison-box of legend. As it slowly unlocks, terrible forces gather in the heavens above. What bearing do growing cracks in time and Amelia Pond’s bedroom, have on all of this? There is just one certainty: silence will fall… (ref)http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/date/2010/05 (/ref)


 * A message on the oldest cliff-face in the universe, a puzzle box opening from the inside and a love that lasts thousands of years... The fates are drawing close around the Tardis – is this the day the Doctor falls?

I believe the former is copied straight out of the doctorwhotv.co.uk article given as a reference, while the latter is copied from the leaked Radio Times episode description.

Anyway, I'm hoping that people can come to some kind of consensus on the Talk page rather than continuing to edit war. --Falcotron 08:47, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

A Van Gogh painting is ferried across thousands of years, communicating a disturbing prophecy to the Doctor. In 102AD England, Romans receive a surprise visit from Cleopatra. Nearby, Stonehenge conceals the Pandorica, a prison-box of legend. As it slowly unlocks, terrible forces gather in the heavens above. What bearing do growing cracks in time and Amelia Pond’s bedroom, have on all of this? There is just one certainty: silence will fall…

A Van Gogh painting is ferried across thousands of years, communicating a disturbing prophecy to the Doctor. In 102AD England, Romans receive a surprise visit from Cleopatra. Nearby, Stonehenge conceals the Pandorica, a prison-box of legend. As it slowly unlocks, terrible forces gather in the heavens above. What bearing do growing cracks in time and Amelia Pond’s bedroom, have on all of this? There is just one certainty: silence will fall

To be honest my synopsis are better more infoThe mysterious 08:58, May 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, there is more information on your synopsis. But there's some that's in the other synopsis and not in yours. For example, yours doesn't mention the cliff-face or the puzzle box.


 * More importantly, as I said, both seem to have been copied directly from other sites, and we really don't know who wrote them, so we may be violating someone's copyright.


 * I think the best answer is to try to merge the two together into something original. But I'd have to look at what the Manual of Style says above synopses and/or look over the other episodes before I'd feel comfortable writing it, so I'm hoping someone else will come up with something that makes everyone happy while I sleep. :) --Falcotron 09:03, May 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * One more minor thing. Your ref tag links to the list of all blog posts in May. While the finale spoilers were probably at the top when you added it, by this point they're not even on the first page. On doctorwhotv.co.uk, it's better to use the permanent links (like http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/finale-spoilers-5888.htm in this case), which you can get (among other ways) by right-clicking the story title and copying the link. I'll change that for now. --Falcotron 09:06, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Kerange 22:02, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * class="activityfeed-details-label"|
 * I smartly combined both sypnosises into one, detailed version. The war has stopped!
 * }

Rory
Please everyone do not delete Rory. People have done it, ignoring the fact that there's a link right next to his name that says that he's appearing. --Golden Monkey 20:40, May 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, there is no link next to his name, either in Cast or in Companions.


 * Two references have been given in the past to support this, but neither one actually does. The first states that Arthur Darvill, who plays Rory in season 5, will be part of a panel at BAFTA's pre-screening of the episode. The second states that Arthur Darvill appears in episode 13. Neither one says anything about Rory appearing in episode 12. If you have a new source, you haven't presented it anywhere. --Falcotron 21:40, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The official Doctor Who website released pictures for The Pandorica Opens showing a man (who considerably looks like Rory). However, his back is to us. The Doctor Who fan/news site doctorwhotv.co.uk released pictures of a clear faced Rory dressed similarly to the man in the pictures on the official BBC website. VertigoSWAY 18:01, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * The official Doctor Who website released pictures for The Pandorica Opens showing a man (who considerably looks like Rory). However, his back is to us. The Doctor Who fan/news site doctorwhotv.co.uk released pictures of a clear faced Rory dressed similarly to the man in the pictures on the official BBC website. VertigoSWAY 18:01, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Omega and the "nameless, terrible thing"
I removed the following two rumours:


 * Omega could return after a video on YouTube said one of the set members mentioned him coming out of the Pandorica
 * Omega has been rumoured to return on Youtube by a user named IJUSTSUBSCRIBENOW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBuw0Dsi_Sg . The video was posted on May 6, 2010. The user claims to know inside information on Doctor who. This maybe the only trustworthy news of Omega returning as the Youtuber's other videos mentioned about the return of the Timelords and Gallifrey back in July 01, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgYMIUYKzpE. And a video about the return of Rassilon back in June 23, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8-owH6timQ . So this youtuber may well be worth listening to. - John Barrowman (Not the actor)


 * An alleged leaked script for episodes 12 and 13 described some evil form of entity, describing a "nameless, terrible thing" soaked in the blood of galaxies, the most feared thing in the cosmos. This is thought to be referring to the ultimate "big bad" of the finale. http://www.flickr.com/photos/cameronkmcewan/4477193338/ There is also a fan rumour that the Pandorica opening refers to Pandora's box, with the same thing mentioning a puzzle box opening. It is thought that this opening of the box has something to do with the return of various enemies.

The first one was here in the past, with the exact same wording. Someone later edited it to just say "Omega will return" (with a fact tag). Since that shorter version is still there, there's no need for the long version, because it doesn't add any additional information. If someone could specify what video on YouTube is being talked about, or at least rewrite this into English (and what is a "set member"?), it might be useful, but as it is, it sounds like "I heard that someone said that someone said that Omega will return."

The first half of the second one has also been added in the past multiple times, with the same wording. I'm not sure why it's been deleted, because it seems relevant, but it shouldn't be added back without some discussion. On top of that, it's not accurate as written--a leaked Radio Times episode guide is not a leaked script.

The second half is a separate rumour, and probably doesn't need to be supported. I'll try to add it back in. --Falcotron 10:26, May 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * See http://www.radiotimes.com/blogs/910-doctor-who-steven-moffats-episode-guide/ as a source. 86.26.137.154 07:38, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

The Quote ""There was a goblin. Or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it -- one day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world." May very well refer to the Doctor, from the perspective of his enemies. The Doctor has been called a Trickster or Warrior on many occasions, and the "blood of a billion galaxies" would refer to the people who have died for him, or all the invading monsters he has destroyed, may even include the genocide of the Racnoss or Saturnynians. --Samuel 12:11, June 5, 2010

Yet another synopsis to integrate?

The BBC issued a press release that summarizes the two-part finale:


 * Doctor Who – The Pandorica Opens Ep 12/13
 * High Definition programme
 * Saturday 19 June
 * Time to be confirmed BBC ONE and BBC HD
 * The Doctor’s friends unite to send him a terrible warning; the Pandorica – which is said to contain the most feared being in all the cosmos – is opening, as the time travelling drama continues. But what’s inside, and can the Doctor stop it?
 * The Doctor’s friends unite to send him a terrible warning; the Pandorica – which is said to contain the most feared being in all the cosmos – is opening, as the time travelling drama continues. But what’s inside, and can the Doctor stop it?


 * The Pandorica Opens is written by Steven Moffat and stars Matt Smith as the Doctor and Karen Gillan as Amy Pond.


 * Doctor Who is simulcast on the BBC HD channel – the BBC’s high definition channel, available through Freesat 108, Freeview 50, Sky 143 and Virgin 108.

Odd that they call "Ep 12/13" together by one name. --Falcotron 23:00, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

"Nameless,terrible thing"? Sounds like the doctor, don't you think? 90.202.74.73 11:43, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe some version of the doctor, sort of like the dream lord... Or maybe the doctor himself since all of his enemies are gathered.. maybe they gathered to trap him inside the pandorica; but what's causing it to open? oh well i guess we'll have to wait till next week to know..91.73.110.104 21:02, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Time Lady
It's said that a Time Lady played by Joanna Paige is going to apper, however the rumours were recently quached when the actress denied her involvment.Jfraser25 02:02, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Although it begs the question...are Time Lords in the Pandorica? Where some taken into the crack?

Perhaps what is in the Pandorica is The Doctor. ScoutDaddy70 17:00, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

The timelords disappeared into a white light, possibly not unlike a crack and they would be complicated space-time events.

Synopsis
Olillorys synopsis is far better. Can we please leave it as that? Fan555 10:20, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

Tabitha Pond?
Before adding that Amy's mother's name is Tabitha Pond, please add a reliable source. So far there is absolutely no evidence so shouldn't be added to the page. The Thirteenth Doctor 20:31, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

Brand New Pics!
Hey guys, brand new and fresh from the BBC DW website, don't know if uploaded by mistake but TPO episode guide already up. I have managed to quickly scrounge the pic before it is removed :)

Found a gr8 picture with the doctor holding a device in his hand (?) follow link if it wants 2 be put up http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/episodes/b00stv7m/galleries/the_pandorica_opens_wallpapers (image 2) K-9 mark 5 17:07, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Previous Companions
The Page states previous companions won't return as they haven't been seen on set but what about http://www.doctorwho.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:doctor-who-sightings&catid=1:newsitems&Itemid=3


 * But that can't be true, since it's obviously referencing The Beast Below - Amy in a night gown and Terrence Hardiman being a villain are both referenced in the article. The writer is either lying or has been mislead, IMO. The evil dude. 21:07, June 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, it also loses credibility by saying that hardiman appeared in "The Evil Headmaster", when it is the "Demon Headmaster". Hell Kaiser ryo12 (Talk&bull;Contribs) 01:59, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not to mention that the local news column that they used as a source was sure Billie Piper was in the episode as Rose and not just dropping by the say hi because she was clearly in-costume wearing a floral dress. Have you ever seen Rose in anything remotely resembling a floral dress? Can you even imagine such a thing? --Falcotron 12:45, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

The Pandorica's Purpose
Personally, I find that quote from the trailer VERY interesting;

"There was a goblin. Or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it, or hold it, or reason with it -- one day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world."

Am I the only one thinking that it could very well describe the Doctor from the perspective of his enemies?

Add in all his enemies coming together like this, and maybe the Pandorica doesn't contain anything yet; maybe the Doctor's arrived at the moment of the Pandorica's creation to become the creature that will be placed in it...?MarcusSLazarus 22:40, June 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Could well be the way his name was played up in the previous episode. 83.104.138.141 23:15, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember to cite your sources. You need a "Needs Citation" footnote after the line: "Karen Westwood, who is playing Amy's mother, is credited as playing Tabitha Pond by various reliable spoilers."
 * Remember to cite your sources. You need a "Needs Citation" footnote after the line: "Karen Westwood, who is playing Amy's mother, is credited as playing Tabitha Pond by various reliable spoilers."
 * Remember to cite your sources. You need a "Needs Citation" footnote after the line: "Karen Westwood, who is playing Amy's mother, is credited as playing Tabitha Pond by various reliable spoilers."

Pictures
Is there really any need for so many images? If we are to keep them, wouldn't it be better to put them in a gallery or one of the new slideshow things at the bottom of the page? 14:57, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, so you want RIDICULOUS theories, eh...
I only just got it pointed out to me that Philip Madoc appears in an undisclosed role in this story. While I realise he's a season Who actor and has had many parts, the one I remember most is as Doctor Solon, the acolyte of the renegade Time Lord, Morbius - the one who led the Time Lords against numerous innocent cultures before being destroyed so that Solon had to create for him a new body. What if Morbius, not Omega, is the evil Time Lord returning? What if the Pandorica was a resurrection machine, designed to rebuild his body, and hidden by Solon on Earth? What if all the monsters are being drawn there so that he can turn them into his new army?

Like I say. Ridiculous. DeadWalrus 15:23, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please save your theories for the forums. Thank-you. The Thirteenth Doctor 21:52, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * The prisoner in the Pandorica being Morbius would be completely against all established canon AND everything of what little we know about the Finale. Morbius was unsuccessful in his attempt at domination, he and his army devastated Karn and a few other planets before being stopped before he was captured by the Time Lords and his body was disintigrated with only his brain surviving, which is later destroyed. That means that Morbius is well established as dead and CERTAINLY not 'soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies' or anything close to how the prisoner is described in the preview from the episode. Now I know that it is established that the Time Lords can resurrect people but that would have been something they had done fairly recently and the Pandorica has presumably been there for so long that it is a Fairly Tale even to the Time Lords, again making it pretty much impossible that it is actually Morbius, especially since the Doctor doesn't know who the prisoner is, beyond the legend, or so it sounds like, and the Doctor very definitely knows who Morbius is. Also, the description of the prisoner doesn't fit with Morbius' MO which is conquest and domination, not destruction which it sounds like the prisoner is all about. Now, of course, the ability of Time travel means that there are ways to explain how it COULD be Morbius, but they are all quite convoluted and I trust the writers are smart enough to know that if you have to do that kind of complicated explanation of why what they are doing goes against canon without actually disturbing canon then that is a bad set up and a bad idea.Doorofnight 16:19, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Plus, the Doctor already faced a reborn Morbius in the audios Sisters of the Flame/Vengeance of Morbius in his eighth incarnation, and Morbius pretty clearly died at the end of that confrontation (Actually, his resurrection was erased from history), and given the convulted and elaborate circumstances necessary for him to come back THEN, it's highly unlikely he's still around to be trapped in the Pandorica now. Omega, maybe; Morbius, definitely notMarcusSLazarus 08:43, June 16, 2010 (UTC).

Basecode of the Universe?
In one of the sections detailing clips from this and possibly episode thirteen, it says that 26/06/10 is the Basecode of the Universe. I think that has been misinterpreted, as River was saying that she could not read the 'basecode of the universe', whatever that is, and that the date was written in this rather than it being it. If that makes any sense. Can I ask someone to change this please? 81.129.93.166 16:56, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Cleopatra?
Quote: "In 102AD England, Romans receive a surprise visit from Cleopatra." This must be a very surprise visit, as Cleopatra died in 30BC!

Possibly 'Cleopatra' is really River Song - or is this a hint that time is becoming confused again? 81.151.78.126 11:22, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Radio advert
Anyone hear the new radio advert? might be worth adding to the article.

Just a Speculation on Rory
Just speculating this. In the article main picture, the guy in the purple robe could be Rory. It looks like him from the back. Just a thought. Kranitoko (talk) 13:28, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

According to someone who has seen some unreleased pictures showing the front of him, it is indeed Rory in that picture. I don't know if the picture has been released yet, but the ones showing the Weevils and stuff have been. Delton Menace 17:37, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Zygons, Terileptils, Atraxi, Draconians?
Those races have just been added to the article as returning. Sources, please? The evil dude. 14:32, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00stv7m. Here ya go. CANT WAIT OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG etc etc Fan555 15:25, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Tardis?
It says on the page something about a blue peter competition but it is written very badly so i can't really tell what it means, can anyone else elaborate on what he/she's talking about?
 * It means the Blue Peter competition to design a TARDIS to be used in this series. Since it hasn't been used yet, it will have to be this episode or The Big Bang. 17:15, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * ??? but the whole point of the lodger IS a tardis (don't say it doesn't look like one, we've never seen an un-chameleoned tardis)
 * it seems simle to me that it HAS already been used.

Cybertrix?
Am i the only person who heard in the trailer instead of cybermen, cybertrix? cause that's what i hear everytime and i cannot get it to sound like cybermen.

sorry i get it now... anyone else going to put "cyberchips" on the page cause that's the only other word i can get out of this.

River says CyberShips! LOL! Liamhenney 17:27, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

wow, the've made a technolodgical jump. unless that justmean airships.

yea thank though cause it seemed confusing to me, shouldn't we put that on the page?


 * Not really. It isn't too important to be mentioned. Also, please sign your comments with ~ 17:37, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

Not all the mentioned will be appearing on-screen.
It shouldn be noted that a lot of old enemies are namechecked, but only a number of them are appearing. So far, the only known enemies who are appear on-screen in either part of the finale as Daleks, Cybermen, Silurians, Sycorax, Blowfish, Weevils, Uvodi Judoon, a Hoix, Sontarans, and a Roboform. A majority of the others are only mentioned, and their ships might be seen. Apparantly, the original Cybermen are mentioned (they're to do with the Cyberhsips), while the Cybusmen appear. This is, without a doubt, due to budgrt reasons.

Just don't get yuor hopes up if you honestly expect all of the enemies in continuity to appear. I think the Autons are deffinetly appearing on-screen, too. Last I heard, they wrre pitured in a promo. Delton Menace 18:57, June 16, 2010 (UTC)