User talk:CzechOut

I tend to talk a lot. So my talk page fills up. If you remember having a discussion with me, but don't see it here, you might want to check these archives:
 * For discussions approximately prior to the coming of the eleventh Doctor (and precisely before 02:33, April 3, 2010), please see /RTD era discussions/.
 * For discussions between 3rd April and 31st December 2010, check out /2010 discussions/.'''
 * For discussions between 1st January 2011 and the beginning of the implementation of the new style sheet go to /JanFeb 2011 discussions/. This page was last wiped on 19:59, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Font size changes in new CSS
FYI, it's pretty bad form to change the size/style of text when it is a link and you hover over it. I had a few cases on the RecentChanges page where the bold changed the font width, and my cursor was no longer over the link to click on it. The link text should not change in such a manner, as the width of things changes awkwardly. The best thing to do might be to simply change the color, not the style of the text. -- sulfur 18:45, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Re: Thanks

 * Thank you for your kind words, czechout. Also, congratulations for being the first to leave a message on my talk page. I believe that if editing on the TARDIS Index File – or any other Wikia for that matter – is worth doing, it's worth doing well. And I'm glad you appreciated my work at Winston Churchill; it took me ages to sort everything out and type it all in... :-) Freddie R. Aldous 21:35, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

Imdb
Something is up with Template:imdb name. The gap between the name and the link seems to have grown. I'm not sure if this is a side affect of the new design, or merely something I haven't noticed before. The page hasn't been edited for some time.Skittles the hog-- Talk 22:09, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

All
I am pretty sure this problem exists for all external links, not just IMDB. ThanksSkittles the hog-- Talk 21:48, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

The King's Dragon
I though I did add a reason. I unprotected it because it's already been published, it came out in July last year. Now unless we a policy that protects books that have been out for over 6 months now form being edited by new and unregistered contributors, I admit I made a mistakes. But I saw no need in protecting a articles on a books that, like I said had been out for 6 months, and I never understood why you reverted a User's contribution to that page. Mini-mitch\talk 10:27, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

Canon policy rewrite
I tried to read through this and take both the "new user POV" and from a long time editor view where I would need to say to another user "it's stated [here] in the canon policy why X isn't allowed".

The intro is a little too wordy.

A policy needs to be a laying down of the rules.

I don't want to think about Rose/Dodo slash. Nor do I want to think about (though I have read) Tenth Doctor/Rose slash and I also don't want to consider the Doctor/Master slash (for which I blame the DW forums and DeviantArt for showing me). I think maybe just replace that sentence with "some fan's fan fiction".

As much as I dislike lists for some things, a list is what is needed at the forefront of the canon policy; "this is what is canon", "this is what isn't". A clear identification of what is and what isn't, the discussions are good to explain but there needs to be some simplicity to this as well, I know that's the aim of all the explanations, but we need to think to the enthusiastic/excited/irritated editor who needs/wants to know what they can start writing about.

What's generally canon
I can see your logic behind the statement, but it's very vague in terms of new users. Clear lists or clear info is likely better. Often the copyright notices are tiny or in the small print of things that it can be missed. Also there's a variety of permutations of © BBC (BBC Worldwide Limited etc) Looking at the Lost Stories Box Set, the only things that are actually listed as "© BBC" are the Doctor Who logo, the TARDIS image and the Doctor Who theme. Then there's "Doctor Who (word marks, logos and devices) and TARDIS, are trade marks of the British Broadcasting Corporation and are used under licence." Alternatively if we just say that it has to have © BBC there may be people trying to claim I dunno a Top Gear segment featuring the Daleks as it counting.

All of which is a little vague.

Canon is important
Examples like this should include at least two sources to demonstrate the scope of the policy say The Masque of Mandragora and Dreamland if talking about Sarah's adventures in Italy.

For the licenced by the BBC stuff, that needs to link to a list of some form, as noted above.

Things we don't consider canon
1. Chuck Fanfic.net as being outside the scope as well (as it's listed on one or more of the other policies), also maybe everything on DW Expanded (and linked off to it) 3. Nothing exactly wrong here, I'd just soften the language a little bit. 4. Needs and example of Big Finish's work we don't cover. 8. Do we? I thought we chucked it all into Doctor Who parodies. 10. Should have a clear statement about special editions (like The Curse of Fenric and the CGI stuff like The Ark in Space and Dalek Invasion of Earth. 11. Needs to be clearer, possibly with an example. 12. What of stuff like Doctor Who: Cybermen, where I think we get the names of certain articles like CyberTelosian from? Use of these references texts, should perhaps not use the REF tag but actually be sourced using the tags?

Other stuff; Have we finished the discussion concerning Charity publications? If not when we have a ruling that should be singled out and noted.

Why are some non-canon things allowed here
This has good info, but again a little too wordy, I'd strip it down to be statements rather than rhetorical questions.

Once more professionally produced parody…? I think we need a definite ruling on this as it implies it can have its own article rather than just the DW parodies page. There's also stuff like Trock, which is often professionally produced and vaguely parody.

Parody is a rather wide scope, I'm concerned about what floodgates we're opening with statements like this.

Final thoughts
I think we need a 'what this wiki covers' page as I think a few of the sections of the canon policy are trying to do two things; say what is not canon while still stating what we do cover and why we cover it.

There needs to be a list akin to what we have at the moment to clearly say what we cover. The Allowed list on the sub-page is good and clear. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:30, March 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand more what you mean (now that you've explained it to me), sometimes I sort of…don't see what direction things are aiming for.
 * I also didn't mean to make massive demands for you to re-write (or write) large chunks of things! I almost a few times while reading through your example clicked "edit" and started to change things, but wasn't really sure where you were going with it, so I thought I'd stick with analysis and comment.
 * Is IDW really not included…oh, it isn't is it….hmmm. I see what you mean. Though "This section is still in flux, as the policy is still under debate." is noted at the top of the "valid resource" and no where on the page does it say that IDW isn't canon, it's just not included (I know I'm deliberately splitting hairs here).
 * I do like the use of the word "narrative" (a little left field comment), but as a word for framing the canon policy it makes logical sense (though that just may be me).
 * Thanks for the reply and quick work on what admittedly was a rather long response to a simple request of my thoughts! --Tangerineduel / talk 15:19, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Curse of Fatal Death
I've just been reading your sandbox around canon policy, everything seems fine with it to me however I have a problem with your non-canon status of the Curse of Fatal Death. While the story is essentially a parody, EDA: The Tomorrow Windows portrays the events of this story as occuring in an alternate timeline for the Eighth Doctor's immediate future. The community decided that we should canonize this story due to it being directly mentioned in a canon story. --Revan\Talk 16:42, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Forum Page
I've spent the last 10 minutes looking for the blasted thing but to no avail. I'll keep looking but basically me, The Thirteenth Doctor and TD agreed that with the 8th Doctor seeing the CoFD 9th and 11th Doctors in his future through a Tomorrow Window then we should include it in canon as an official source directly refers to events and characters from that story. --Revan\Talk 17:19, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Firstly, I don't like the way that your suggesting that I'm makling things up to get my point across. Although I can't find the forum page you can see the outcome of the discussion on any page related to the story as The Thirteenth Doctor placed a note in the behind the scenes section explaining why the non-canon tag is no longer on the page. My whole reasoning for sending you the message about the Curse of Fatal Death topic was so that you were aware of previous decisions towards that story and to not blatantly disregard them when imposing new policy. My message was more of a heads up to other things that may affect what you are trying to impose and not an attack on what your doing to the canon policy. --Revan\Talk 18:00, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

A quote from Talk:The Doctor (Party Animals) shows the Thirteenth Doctor referencing the aforementioned discussion:

Why is this not part of the Doctor Who universe as well? As with Ninth Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death), unless there is something that directly contradicts the TV show, I don't see how it isn't part of the DWU? It comes from what we consider to be a canon source, and as far as I know, doesn't contradict anything. Does anyone disagree? --The Thirteenth Doctor 23:22, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

--Revan\Talk 18:02, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Found the discussion [|here]. --Revan\Talk 18:08, March 11, 2011 (UTC)

Real World
Why don't novels currently carry the tag? Did you not get round to them with your bot?Skittles the hog-- Talk 18:14, March 13, 2011 (UTC)

Quote of the week problem
Could you take a look at Tardis:Quote of the Week nominations, the text within the qotw template wraps so it avoids the contents but the actual template stays there below the contents. Thanks. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:56, March 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * File:Quoteoftheweek problem.png. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:19, March 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for working on it so quickly.
 * I'm not sure if the TOC being the colour of the background works, as it makes the TOC look like a template of its own, not sure if it's the result of the colour of the TOC being layered on top of the background or what.
 * I toyed with two solutions; chuck the NOTOC on the top to just rid the pages of contents as it's not really needed on the quote page, or alternatively force the TOC to hide on that page by default. The latter I couldn't work out how to do for that page alone though. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:28, March 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I just mentioned the colour issue as it seems a large change to the TOC for one page. As we don't generally have templates that run the full width of the page on regular pages (the qotw page is the outlier in this case). That changing the qotw page/the template to suite the TOC might be better than changing the TOC to suite this one page. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:44, March 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe that's how the TOC functions, there is a logic to it. Or rather there was a logic to it before Wikia forced the fixed width on pages. I'll stop pestering you and leave you to find a solution. Though there's always my simplistic solution of getting rid of the TOC! (Not ideal, but would fix the problem...). --Tangerineduel / talk 16:22, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

Template editing
Cheers for the notice. I was just tinker and testing stuff changing the colour to fit the more blue-ish design of the wiki and to make the protection template stand out, so it not too big a deal to me about my changes being 'swept away'. I appreciate the notice. Thanks. :) Mini-mitch\talk 21:30, March 14, 2011 (UTC)

Mini-mitch\talk 17:22, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

RecentChanges format issue
In your latest round of changes, you've somehow made it so that the RC list is all double spaced for the main entries, which makes things a bit longer to read than normal. It also doubles the length of the page all things considered. -- sulfur 13:42, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Sentence case/Headings
I assume this is another working issue. As I seem to recall there was at least a little bit of discussion about the headings and formatting of them, and now they're all in capitals. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:57, March 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * I can see your intentions, but I don't believe they will come through in the general operation and editing for general users.
 * It's not clear looking at what you get on the page and what's written in the MoS. The rule and the reality have become two quite separate things.
 * The TOC's appearance will not be enough of a reason for people to follow the MoS. The rules need to make sense and need to follow through onto the pages in big statements so people can follow the how and whys of the rules.
 * The headings are a different colour and a different font to the main body text, that should be enough for readers to discern a difference. I really think that the headings should follow how they're typed, while this isn't a change in the MoS it changes how the MoS's rules are shown to have affect on the wiki. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:09, March 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * I also disagree, and I would note I don't take any issue with the font mix, colours, spacing, sizing, or anything except the use of all upper case in the headings.
 * A wiki is not just about reading but also about editing of the site and seeing the differences between. While it is important for it to have a consistent visual flow the editing experience also needs to have a consistent flow between what's edited and how it appears.
 * I don't believe, at least at the moment, that that the solution is to change the MoS. I would just like it to be open to the possibilty to have consistent lower case throughout the headings. I do though, ask this portion of the redesign be brought to the forums as I really have concerns for it. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:55, March 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * I did actually reconsider what I said yesterday. I was a little too quick to jump the gun, some things I see it churns over in my imagination, I am on occasion a little hasty, so I apologise for wishing to rush to the forums. Also musing on it, consistency is better and what I had forgotten (and is what is clear in the MoS, and it wouldn't have crossed my mind that you'd change it out of spite, your edits are always well considered) is that by having it hard coded we can change it in the future should we need to.
 * And, you're right you/your bot has made far more changes than me and my humble fingers and mouse.
 * As I've said before I have a very (very) limited knowledge of CSS (which basically amounts to read in the Community Forums/other wikis, implement and hope I've not broken anything, when on the rare occasion(s) I did something). So I probably wouldn't be able to change it if I wanted to hence my jumping the gun a little on that front.
 * The only real question I have, would there be a way to force a lower case? I'm just thinking on stuff like McCoy, where you need a lower case (I don't know the situation where we'd need Sylv's name in a sub-header), but I was watching the credits of Silver Nemesis and realised that all the credits are in capitals, except that letter of his name, and just wandered if we had the capacity, should we need to, to implement a lower case. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:26, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

New changes
Hi! Was wondering if you give any indication when things are likely to settle down. Im holding back stuff at the moment 'cos Im finding the various fonts and sizes a bit of a problem. Maybe the forum article about the changes needs updating as it says two weeks. Thanks The Librarian 21:07, March 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi! please dont tell me this is how it is now :( There are too many different fonts and sizes - the article text is is around 10 and the editing box about 14! Overall the design changes look good but seriously ... you need to magnify the screen to read some of it -take the block of text under the home page logo and the popular categories text ... if reading going to be that much effort I'm going back to books (joking - but at least I can bring the page closer). Please, please please reconsider this font is harsh on the eye and a regressive step no longer warm and inviting ( and it dominates my screen to get a successful width showing - not good for multi-tasking) The Librarian 19:33, March 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks I'm not a technical sort of chap so have followed your advise and switched to Firefox.I'll try what you suggested and see how I get on. Just when I think I'm getting the hang of things ... hey ho! :) The Librarian 20:22, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

--Tangerineduel / talk 14:42, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

The headings
I only have one real concern about the new fonts. It's the headings. I personally don't think it's should be in capitals and should remain how it was. I don't understand why it was changed, the only problem(s) we had when the original headings was Users that put the headings in title case instead of sentence case (which most Users changed when they saw them) and the other problem, although I never saw it as one, was the use of continuous sub headings (i.e on the Companion page). Could the headings have not be formatted to be a bit larger instead of changing it to all cap locks?

IMO, the capitalised headings lock dead awful. It looks like it a website for the near-blind. The headings look daft, the tabs along the top (mainly lifestyle and the link to your User page) run into each other as do their links in their drop down menus. (Mainly in Gaming). Also, because of the size of the new heading two some headings now run onto either two or three lines.

My suggestion would be: To bring all the headings up on level (meaning heading one would be used) or the font size in the headings is reduce. There are also a couple of complaint on the main TARDIS talk page about the font, just so you know. I hope you don't see this as criticism of your work, I just want to express my view on the heading. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for everything else you have done for this wiki, you have done a fantastic job! :) Mini-mitch\talk 20:41, March 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I will indeed try and get use to the new font and headings, and I hope they will grow on me. I am still have trouble with the overlays of the Lifestyle and Mini-mitch and in the wiki drop down menus. I reset my cache, but it had no effect. I'm using Crome, and I've downloaded Firefox to see if that makes a difference. By continuous sub headings (not the best way I could have put it) I was meaning a page that used all of the headings. I think if we were ever to go for a change to the headings, it should be discussed in the forums first, even if it's a small reduction in the font or if the spacing is reduced. Thanks :) Mini-mitch\talk 22:12, March 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I've cleared the cache several time, using both the keyboard short cut and from the options menu. And it's not changing. Mini-mitch\talk 22:52, March 23, 2011 (UTC)

Just thought I say I am also experiencing collision of headings. (It's not the cache, I checked) ThanksSkittles the hog-- Talk 22:07, March 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I've checked my zoom levels, which are at normal (100%). I've tried zooming both in and out to see if it made any different, which it did not. I've also tried changing the text format, and that had not changed it either. I've checked other wikis, mainly Wookieepedia, Mass Effect and I have no collision on that (bearing in mind, they format is wiki standard) Mini-mitch\talk 23:08, March 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what I've done, but my heading is fine now. Thank you for your help :). Mini-mitch\talk 17:24, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Heading error
Here you go, I have also included a screenshot of the headings. I assume they appear differently to you as, on my screen, they're horrible. As you can see the overlap occurs with the user name and the drop down I can no longer read. Thanks Skittles the hog-- Talk 17:11, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

I was trying to show a comparison of headers. They looked daft on that shot, but with the enlarged text they look significantly better. The heading problem was cleared up when I cleared the cache. Thanks.Skittles the hog-- Talk 17:30, March 24, 2011 (UTC)

Nav templates
Just wanted to say the nav templates are all looking very good and fancy! Also, just curious, with the glow around them, will there be any problems with several stacked up of the glow over lapping? I've tried it the Sandbox and it seems to only impact the bottom of the templates a little bit, making them a little more purple/blue when one is unhidden. It's a very minor issue though I'm not sure the average user would even notice it. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:26, March 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand you've likely got a mountain of tabs open and several things going on, so a little time taken doesn't worry me.
 * On the two you've highlighted the concern isn't the glow overlapping within, but at the top, it's sort of glowing over the external link, this is the only time it's really noticeable because the glow is over the top of a totally blue piece of text.
 * I don't think it's a huge issue. With spacing, I think you'd need so much spacing to see a difference/see each individual box's glow that it's not really worth it/would make it too spaced out. As I said I'm not sure an average user would notice the overlapping glows. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:13, March 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * It looks a lot better.
 * I can't really find any fault with it. Thanks. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:50, March 25, 2011 (UTC)

Problems
I have noticed a couple of things since I changed to Firefox, and I'm wondering if there is anyway we could sort these. The first thing is section of the infoboxes appear joined (i.e. there no line to separate the different sections.) This also appears in the table on the Series 6 episodes. By the looks of it, it show that episodes 10 and 11 are a two parter, even when they are not. Is this a fault with Firefox?

Secondly, I've noticed that when you put a list into columns, (e.g. the Series 6 cast, the aliens and enemies of series x pages), there is a box around them. This never appeared on Chrome. Is there a way to get rid of it, without removing it's function on the page? i.e. could we change the colour etc? Thanks. Mini-mitch\talk 11:00, March 26, 2011 (UTC)

Here are two screenshot. The first shows the infoboxes that have the different sections running into each other (since the line separating them is missing) and the second one shows the problem with the prettytable as its called. The episode 10/11 is fine, they no longer run it to each. As for seeing if my browser is working, I tend to use the wiki activity page or the main page. I also refresh my cache and view these pages first. Thanks. Mini-mitch\talk 14:34, March 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm using Firefox 4. The infobox problem is not on every page, it just seems to be on random pages and random infoboxes (it's happening o the Multi-form page. As for the , its seems to be every pretty table i see, and not just the Series 6 (Doctor Who) page. I tried around 6 different pages, all of which had missing lines somewhere. I'll look through the Firefox options, if there are any updates or a newer version I can use. Thanks.  Mini-mitch\talk 17:15, March 26, 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation
I recall that you brought up the issue of pages that directly counter disambiguation policy. I have come across several such pages, but, as is typical, I cannot remember them all. The only ones I can think of are the previously mentioned Planet of Evil (planetoid) and the extremely annoying Inferno (nightclub). Do you have any more thoughts on where to go with this? I don't want to start changing redirects without some sort of community consent. ThanksSkittles the hog-- Talk 19:44, March 27, 2011 (UTC)

Lowercase human
I've noticed on many pages that human has been dropped to lower case within infboxes. Just wondering if this is going to be fixed (or is it on your to do list for the bot?) Thanks. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:13, March 29, 2011 (UTC)