Howling:The Valeyard and McGann's regeneration

I've long awaited a possible new story involving the Valeyard, especially since we've been approaching his supposed time of appearance. ("There is some evil in all of us, Doctor – even you. The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say you do not improve with age." -The Master) For a long time up until The Day of the Doctor actually aired, I was under the impression that John Hurt might be playing the Valeyard, but that's clearly no longer the case. (Though the evidence was still there that it was possible. Including when Matt Smith said to John Hurt "but not in the name of the Doctor".)

But now that the special has aired, and Peter Capaldi will most definitely be a normal form of the Doctor, it brings up more questions, and possibly answers a few. First, it seems likely that McGann's regeneration into John Hurt didn't count as one of the Doctor's natural regenerations, and therefor does not upset the number of regenerations he may or may not have left. Because if that were the case, and Matt Smith was 12 and not 11, it would be completely inexcusable (and a bit irresponsible, in my eyes) for them to ignore the Valeyard and skip ahead to Capaldi without further explanation.

This does, however, mean that they'll have to eventually confirm that whatever way the Sisterhood allowed him to regenerate into the "Warrior", it was a different type of regeneration. Because I know better than to take it at their word to assume that McGann actually died in the crash. Unless he was ripped limb from limb, I don't for a second believe that he wouldn't have naturally regenerated on his own. Plus, if they had truly brought him back to life, then after the supposed four minutes were up, why wouldn't he then just regenerate naturally like he had (according to them) failed to do after the crash? That's kind of the whole point of that ability, and he's already regenerated from arguably harsher deaths. Perhaps that's just what they told him in order to convince him to use their form of regeneration, and told him he only had four minutes in order to not give him the time to think it through. Seems reasonable to me. McGann even mentioned in Night of the Doctor that the Sisterhood "aren't big on gratitude", so the entire idea of them genuinely helping him without ulterior motives seems a bit fishy. It's also likely that he is not, as they claimed, the only person capable of ending the Time War, but instead the only one that they felt they could manipulate into doing it.
 * [Side note: It's been suggested on numerous occasions in the past that Time Lords already have some form of control over what they become after they regenerate. There have been mentions of Time Lords that willingly changed from man to woman. At least one has even changed into a non-human-looking species. Even the Master seemed to purposely become a younger form (which, given the times the Doctor has changed from a young man to an old man, means becoming younger is not the only possible choice- I prefer to think he lets it happen randomly just for the fun of it) and even stated that very point mere seconds before he regenerated. (If the Doctor can be young and strong, then so can I!) My point being: why would there be different "potions" for him to choose from, as suggested by the Sisterhood? They supposedly offered him his pick of who he would become, when it seems like if it were a true regeneration they would only need to spark it, and he could have naturally done the rest, in terms of choosing.]

But this also makes me wonder how they'll go about handling the Valeyard in the future. I always wondered what exactly the Master meant by "between" the 12th and final incarnations, because that could mean during his stint as Twelve, or it could even imply that Thirteen is the Valeyard, and that there is somehow a Fourteenth after him. If it turns out that the method the Sisterhood used to cause him to regenerate was indeed a trick, and not one of his own, then perhaps that's what causes the Valeyard to come about. It could be that, in the future, they (or someone else, even) once again convince/force him to falsely regenerate. It's completely possible, given how we were only just now shown the manner of him turning into the Warrior, and that Capaldi will be playing the Doctor who is supposed to become the Valeyard at some point. The timing seems too relevant to ignore. I'm going to go ahead and make a guess that this could be a future season finale plot. I can easily see ending a season with this, and having the Valeyard appear in a special or two, before finally regenerating into Thirteen/Fourteen. --Saghan ☎  08:31, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * My impression was the the Sisterhood reviving the Doctor would have allowed him to regenerate naturally regardless of further interference, the Sisterhood's "potions" simply allowed the next form to be controlled, during the Second Doctor's trial, the Time Lord offer him the chance to pick his next form so there is precedent for that. But yeah, other Time Lords (e.g. Romana) have shown the ability to control their next forms. I think the most important part is that the Doctor naturally doesn't have much control over them for whatever reason and so needed assistance to take a certain form or to have certain traits.
 * That being said, I always got the impression that the Valeyard was not a true incarnation of the Doctor but rather an in-between form like the Watcher (or Cho Je). Which does lead to some potential hypothetical storylines; presumably one where the Doctor and the Valeyard have an ongoing conflict arc where the Valeyard is manifested and trying to take over and is eventually concluded with the Doctor finally winning and merging the Valeyard back into him and regenerating. I mean I guess until we see it we won't know but if the Valeyard is an in-between form I cannot really see it playing out any other way. - The Light6 ☎  13:58, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Although not the most trustworthy of witnesses, the Master did say (in The Trial of a Time Lord) that the Valeyard wasn't a true incarnation of the Doctor. What he said also implied that the Valeyard wasn't an in-between form like the Watcher, either. He described the Valeyard as an incarnation of an aspect of the Doctor (his dark side), rather than of the Doctor himself. The Valeyard was said to have arisen "between [the Doctor's] twelfth & final incarnations" -- i.e., at round about the Doctor's next regeneration, since Eleven is the Doctor's twelfth incarnation. --89.241.217.89talk to me 17:02, November 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I've always thought of the Valeyard as a separate physical entity from the Doctor, an "offshoot branch" that came about during a regeneration as his darker side "broke out", sort of like, Doctor 12 is standing there when he begins to regenerate, and then Doctor 13 and the Valeyard are both standing there as the regeneration ends (or a dark cloud that manifests physically later on). —BioniclesaurKing4t2 - "Hello, I'm the Doctor. Basically, . . . run." 19:28, November 26, 2013 (UTC)

Okay kids, this is where it gets complicated: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/11/26/matt-smith-is-the-13th-doctor.

Yes, you read that right. Moffat has announced that the Eleventh Doctor is, well, the thirteenth. Of course he could be lying again (or just telling the truth in a very clever way), but this could be genuine. And if it is, then The Valeyard is relevant to this. If what Moffat is saying is true, then the Tenth Doctor's violent regeneration was the one where anything Valeyard-related should have occurred. And of course the fact that it tore up the TARDIS could be something to do with The Valeyard. Any thoughts?

I agree as seeing as the tenth died protesting instead of accepting his death like the other doctors, it's most likely that this would be the time for the Valeyard to be created. Seeing that the Valeyard is only an aspect of the Doctor, it could have been created because of the violent regeneration. I don't know how but of course we don't know everything about time lords. Maybe it's a natural Gallifreyan thing to happen. But, if the doctor was regenerating in his tardis in the far future, how could the Valeyard have popped up somewhere completely different?

By the way, this announcement has it's own thread where you can talk about everything it may mean for the show, not just The Valeyard. 87.102.91.126talk to me 20:25, November 27, 2013 (UTC)