Talk:The Wedding of River Song (TV story)

OK to create?
Granted there won't be much of an infobox, but seeing as the BBC already has the preview up and that it's here already shouldn't the episode page be up as well? Or are we just waiting for 1) the actual showing or 2) an admin to create it?


 * Well, generally the page is created on the day of broadcast as there really isn't a need for it to exist except as a skeleton, ready to have some meat chucked on it. However, nothing seems set in stone and, as you can see, the page has been created.-- 13:10, September 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * I vaguely recall during the first part of this season the pages being posted as a skeleton with the BBC synopsis and any Cited Rumors, but I saw that those now fall under Spoilers 167.142.212.235 20:42, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to amplify Skittles' point, there is, under our current policies, zero need to create a story page prior to first broadcast. While The Wedding of River Song was briefly created, it was swiftly deleted.  So long as we have a policy whereby story names can be un-disambiguated unless a DWU topic of the same name exists, we'll have to wait to see each episode to verify whether the episode title names a thing in the DWU.  For instance, no one knew that The Pandorica Opens was actually a painting, until that episode was aired.  Because we had the story page already created at The Pandorica Opens, we had to move it to The Pandorica Opens (TV story), in order to allow The Pandorica Opens to be the place for the painting.


 * If we had a more sensible disambiguation policy, which simply said that all story names had to be disambiguated by media type, this wouldn't be an issue, and we could create story pages much earlier. In other words, we could force TV story pages to be created as Episode (TV story), but allow redirects of the format Episode (so long as Episode wasn't a topic in the DWU).  If we did this, story titles would be predictable, instead of the current hodgepodge.  Under the current policy, some are like Castrovalva (TV story) and some are like An Unearthly Child.


 * It's no exaggeration to say that you need a scorecard to remember how the story pages are titled. Now, you might not think so if you only consider television.  Long term editors, at least, tend to have memorised which TV story titles are disambiguated and which aren't.  I don't think it makes too much immediate sense to newer editors, but people still have a pretty good chance of having seen the episodes in question.  The situation is much worse with other media, however.  I'm constantly finding articles which need to be disambiguated because the people who started the article hadn't actually read or heard the story, so they had no idea that — to take an example from yesterday's bot work — Red is a thing in the DWU, which is the focus of Red (audio story).


 * When you look at the entirety of the story titling chore on this wiki, the need for automatic disambiguation is much more profound. And it needn't change the way we write articles.  People think that if we go to an all-disambiguated format that we're going to increase the number of keystrokes necessary to refer to a story.  But that absolutely needn't be so.  For instance, we'd formally change the name of An Unearthly Child to An Unearthly Child (TV story).  But you'd still be able to link to An Unearthly Child, because the act of moving would leave a redirect behind.  This proposed system would in fact be no different to the current system, except in terms of what appeared on top of story pages.  15:19: Sat 01 Oct 2011


 * By the way, if you're frustrated by how we've handled this page's creation, and would like to change how we handle all this, please go to Forum:Story names should be automatically disambiguated and vote to change the disambiguation policy.  16:18: Sat 01 Oct 2011

Lock page please
Could whoever has the power please lock this page for only registered users to edit, as someone keeps vandalising it. Howling Snail talk to me 20:12, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Somebody is messing around with The Wedding Of River Song page, putting crape nothing to do with the page, eveeytime i try to remove it, it put more rubbish on it.

Los Angeles?
This is categorised as a "story set in Los Angeles". Is this an error, or a really brief bit that's easy to miss? -- Tybort (talk page) 22:02, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * The live chess scene is apparently set in Los Angeles, got a source., scroll down and read through the teasers, and you will find one that says "The Chess Pits of Vegas". I premused this meant Las Vegas. Either, it is or it's not. I may have clicked and type something in by mistake, but I just assumed by reading "Vegas" it was set there... and I just realised Las Vegas is not in Los Angeles... my bad. MM/ Want to talk? 22:08, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Or "Vegas" is the name of a planet in some far-flung corner of the universe. Raven&#39;s wing talk to me 22:09, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Parallels
Is it worth including the parallel of Amy's actions with Kovarian and River's with the Dalek from The Big Bang?

- Byfield talk to me 01:28, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

I think that if these are worth mentioned, they should be in either story notes or continuity. Story notes to my taste. Boblipton talk to me 03:52, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Definitely worth mentioning, especially given Amy's line about River not getting all of her personality from Kovarian. Also, that both episodes ended in weddings should be mentioned; this probably goes back to literary theory about ancient comedy (at least New Comedy, if not necessarily Attic Old Comedy) and Shakespearean comedy, which very frequently ended with a wedding. Also, Kovarian is tied up, seated, in Area 52 in front of a "DO NOT INTERACT WITH THE PRISONER" sign like the Doctor was in Area 51 during Day of the Moon. 98.180.51.124 18:04, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Timeline placement
Someone put that this story, for the Doctor, takes place before Death is the Only Answer. I think it's a bit silly to use the mini-episode -which may not even be canon - as a benchmark. There is nothing in DITOA to suggest it takes place after this episode; it could take place during the 200 year gap. For all we know the Christmas special may take place immediately following. I suggest it be removed and either TBA or "2011 Christmas Special" be used instead. 68.146.80.110 04:47, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

I agree that it should be removed, and replaced with TBA or something similar. Nothing in DITOA indicates the time setting. Haigh21 talk to me 10:45, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

I thought it was placed after The Big Bang because he remarks about River blowing up the TARDIS and the fez thing. Gryffindor1991 14:27, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

DITOA has to take place after The Big Bang, as Gryffindor1991 stated. Therefore, it could happen between ACC and TIA, during the Doctor's two-hundred-years of running from his death, or after Wedding. The latter two seem the likliest. I guess we'll have to wait for something official on the subject. 18:46 Wed 10 Oct 2011

The Brigadier
Why does this page say that the Brigadier died in the 2050s? I know that technically nothing in the episode contradicts the novels that say that he lived to the 2050s, but the implication in the episode really seems to be that the nurse the Doctor was talking to was in 2011, and the Brigadier had died around the same time that Nicholas Courtney died in real life. Why don't we just treat this the way we treat other characters whose fates are contradicted in different media, and mention that there are different versions of the Brigadier's fate, and assume that there are alternate timelines or something like that. Icecreamdif talk to me 18:22, October 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's what I got as well. I mean he if died in the 2050's, why can't the Doctor see him in 2011? I was thinking he was inviting him to Utah. -- Confused again
 * The Doctor sent the letters in the scene before that one though, I think the reason was meant to be that the Doctor wanted to talk to his oldest friend before he died. --Revan\Talk 18:28, October 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't his "oldest" friend be The Face of Boe? Loyal Companion

Not oldest as in how old they are, but oldest in how long they have been the Doctor's friend. The Doctor wanted to hang out with the Brigadier for the same reason that he went to say hi to Craig in Closing Time. Of course, even if the Brigadier died in 2011 you would think that the Doctor could go back to the 90s or something to hang out with him, but he usually tries to meet people in linear order (River being the obvious exception). I think that we should either say that the Brigadier died in 2011, or say that the episode left the date of his death ambiguous and just not give a date.Icecreamdif talk to me 20:35, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

The novel The King of Terror states he died in the 2050s. MM/ Want to talk? 20:41, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Who else has saw the time travel switcheroo coming. I personally had some theories since the Tesselecta was shown way back.Godmode1911 talk to me 22:11, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I understand that, but the episode really seems to imply that he dies in 2011. It makes the most sense-we see him as an old man in 2009, the actor who plays him dies in 2011, and the Doctor hears he dies in 2011. I'm not suggesting that we remove any reference in this wiki to the Brig dieing in the 50s-I'm just saying that on this page we should either say "Nursing Home-2011," or even "Nursing Home-21st Century." If we say 21st century than it works for either death date anyway. Icecreamdif talk to me 22:31, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Well, it's the TARDIS who sets the time the call is put through to the Brig and she does take the Doctor where he needs to go. And when. If she says he needs to speak with Lethridge-Stuart in the 2050s, then that''s her way of telling the Doctor it's time to go. Boblipton talk to me 23:45, October 2, 2011 (UTC)

Well, by that logic he could have decided give Craig a call, and find out that he died in the 2050s. Yes, the Doctor is a time traveller, but for whatever reason he generally considers the real world present to be the present. The whole scene has a greater emotional impact if the Doctor hears, "The Brigadier is dead now," than if he hears "The Brigadier will be dead in 40 years."Icecreamdif talk to me 03:49, October 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think putting it as "21st century" seems a better approach. MM/ Want to talk? 10:32, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

Links?
Hey, guys, just because I wouldn't let any of you touch the plot until I had finished setting it up doesn't mean that it doesn't still need links. Would someone who knows how to install them place the links to the articles covering the numerous topics I deliberately put in? Boblipton talk to me 01:16, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

Stetson

Is it worth mentioning that the Doctor actually still owns the stetson? We know that it was the Tesselecta impersonating him from the moment he met up with Rory and Amy in Utah until his funeral pyre. That means that when River shoots his hat off, she's actually shooting the Tesselecta. The Doctor is shown brandishing the stetson from within the Tesselecta when he reveals the secret to River, so he still owns the hat.

It doesn't seem so to me, but let's see if sixteen other people think it is. By the way, there is a button on the upper right for starting new topics and it is a good think to sign your posts to the talk section. Boblipton talk to me 10:34, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

River's Wine Glass
In the scene that reinacts the picnic from The Impossible Astronaut, when viewing River's wine glass from over Amy's shoulder it appears to be only about a quarter full. Then when the angle is changed to the Doctor's point of view the glass seems full, but returns to a quarter when the angle is reversed. Tripodssj6 talk to me 18:59, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

If you're sure, that's a continuity error. Snaps for going back and checking out whether it occurs in The Imposisble Astronaut too. Boblipton talk to me 19:04, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

In The Impossible Astronaut the camra stays over Amy's shoulder except when they close-up on her when she notices the Silence on the hill. I'm pretty sure of this but feel free to confirm it. Tripodssj6 talk to me 21:04, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

redoing plot
My apologies, but someone has vandalized the plot and I cannot locate the proper version. I will redo it, but as it is bedtime here and I need to spend a couple of hours watching rhe episode while I write it, I will have to do it tomorrow or Friday. My apologies for not being sufficiently adept with the system to restore it. Boblipton talk to me 02:50, October 19, 2011 (UTC)

Theories
Should I metion when River says, "There are so many theories about the two of us" as a reference to fan theories, or is that too speculative-y? Mandalore74 talk to me 16:23, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

City of the Daleks
In the Continuity section it states that Amy drew a picture of a Red Dalek from City of the Daleks. However, since the adventure games aren't otherwise mentioned in the TV series isn't it more likely that she simply remembered them from Victory of the Daleks?Mandalore74 talk to me 15:56, November 12, 2011 (UTC)

A Silent in the End Credits
At the very end of the closing credits, you can hear a Silent making a hissing sound. For proof, go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzlVP7Id3T0. -- MisterRandom2 talk to me 19:48, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

I feel that this needs to be included somewhere in the article. Under which category should it go under? -- MisterRandom2 talk to me 23:59, December 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't belong anywhere in the article! Why in the world should it be in the article? What is so important about it that you feel that it needs to be on the page? -- Bold  Clone  00:09, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Because it's a fact. It happened. I didn't make it up. And it may be a hint that the Silence are still around - but that's just speculation on my part and I wouldn't add that. However the fact that it happened should be noted. It's not something that normally happens at the end of every episode. -- MisterRandom2 talk to me 00:12, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Every fact that occurs does not need to be recorded. This is a comprehensive wiki, not an exhaustive wiki. The sound of a Silent has no bearing on the story, so it does not matter if it is a fact. Again: if the TARDIS was heard at the end of the credits, would you feel like you need to put that in? -- Bold  Clone  00:20, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Look, it obviously happened for a reason and not just because the producers felt like it. So, yeah, it probably is relevant. It SHOULD be noted somewhere in the article. -- MisterRandom2 talk to me 00:23, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Look, it obivously happened for a reason--for fun. You have no evidence to the contrary. It has no bearing on the story. At all. In any way. Period. Any possibility is just that--a possibility. Speculation. This is a wiki of facts. We do not need to record every minor thing, and we have no evidence that it means anything. AGAIN, I ask you: if the TARDIS was heard at the end of the credits, would you feel like you need to put that in? -- Bold  Clone  00:28, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe. It would depend on the context. And by the way, I already got permission from one Moderator and it turns out the person who originally deleted it didn't actually mean to do it. So, basically I've taken up with the staff AND I've resolved it with the other person. -- MisterRandom2 talk to me 00:32, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not arguing whether it should go in the article, but just because something is a true fact does not mean it must be mentioned. River wears a very dark outfit in the aborted timeline. That is a fact and yet it need not be mentioned.  The military forces wear red berets, just like UNIT -- that' a fact, but it may or may not be significant.I suspect it was more a matter of reusing stuff that was in wardrobe that a statement about anything.  In Let's Kill Hitler I think I heard a musical quote from the Mission Impossible theme included as a gag and mentioned in in the LKH talk section to see if anyone else had noticed.


 * With the exception of the errors section --- which is about showing how much more brilliant and observant we are than the BBC staff -- truth should not be the sole criteria for deciding whether to include something.  I believe that making the piece readbale, by brevity and engaging writing is a standard that must be weighed in the decision whether or not to include facts, weighed against significance. It may well be that the "Silent hiss" means something, but what it means is a matter of speculation.  Was it intended as a statement that we have not seen the last of them? Was someone winding us up? That's the distinction to make.  In the former case, it may well be worth noting.  In the latter case it well may not. It'sa  tough balancing act, but the essence of good writing. Boblipton talk to me 00:33, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, it's obvious we're not getting anywhere. We need to take this up with the mods or something. -- MisterRandom2 talk to me 00:36, December 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's excatly what I have been telling you. -- Bold  Clone  00:43, December 9, 2011 (UTC)