User talk:General MGD 109/Powerful and godlike beings and races

Here Why do you seem so inclined to delete this page, what's wrong with it?

Delete
I have added the delete tag for multiple reasons. Firstly, the page is much more like a category than an article. Secondly, a similar category was recently deleted. Finally, it is debatable what "godlike" means. Personally, I'd consider an ability to regenerate and have psychic abilities godlike, which would make Time Lords godlike. Others would not. Godlike is a term which depends on your view. To small insects, we may seem godlike, but to ourselves we are not. Godlike is an ambiguous term. The Thirteenth Doctor 13:54, August 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Supporting delete. For the reasons I've given below in reply to General MGD 109's statements and also for The Thirteenth Doctor's statements. --Tangerineduel 14:33, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Against deletion
I would like to argue against the deletion of this page as there are several similiar ones that have not been put up for deletion, here are a few examples Telepathy, Telekinesis, and most of all and the one I based this on Hypnosis, now can you explain why these pages and many others that I haven't used as examples haven't been put up for deletion but this one has?

The only differance is they have more information and seeing as this page is only a few hours old, I can't belive you to expect me to completely finish it in the time I have had.

Admitilly the title is debatable, I'm sorry about that, I thought it would be a good emphasis of how powerful they are, if it can, I would like it to be changed, to something less confussing. (Also may I note timelords have been added to the list)

Any way that is my opening argument, your turn

General MGD 109


 * The page is the same format as a category, a list of similar items/peoples. A similar category was deleted. Basing this on hypnosis is different. Those people have shown hypnosis, and there is no debate about what hypnosis is, where as, like I said above, godlike is. Time Lords would not consider themselves godlike, but Humans would. The term is ambiguous. On top of that, the term godlike has never been used to describe anything. The closest there has been is the Ninth Doctor saying a Time Lord who absorbed the Time Vortex would become a god. Godlike essentially means something that has an ability that Humans do not, which is essentially every alien. The point of the page would be nil. The Thirteenth Doctor 14:13, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

As I've already said I would like to remove godlike from the article, and you can't argue that compared to humans that these creatures don't posses great power.

Strike that compared to most races have great power, after all how many races can warp reality? Walk through walls? control the elements? drain electricity from the sourse? change there size? Create force feilds? or kill many easy as blinking?


 * The other examples you've given are terms used in stories. 'Powerful and godlike beings and races' isn't a term I recall being used. You also say you want to remove the term 'godlike' from the article, you would also need to remove the term 'powerful', as it's an entirely subjective term depending on what or who you're comparing the individuals to. The title as a comparitive title doesn't work, as we're not seeking to state in the title that one element is more powerful than another. Humans can't be used as a baseline comparison as this wiki doesn't view them any differently to any other races or species. Another issue, with that while the title states it's 'beings and races' the list in the article is a mix of races, species and individuals. --Tangerineduel 14:33, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * On the contary many times are creatures refered to as powerful, to quote the fourth doctor in the pyarimds of mars "the forces gathering in that house are more powerful and more dangerous than anything, even I've ever encountered" also I'm not just using humans as a base line, but virtually every other species as being with great powers are quite rare, admitally though it could be seen as confusing, but can you think of a better way to describe things like Sutekh, Azal, Fenric, The gods of Ragnarok, the Beast ect.
 * However a quite agree with your last point and it should be changed to races, species and individuals
 * However a quite agree with your last point and it should be changed to races, species and individuals
 * However a quite agree with your last point and it should be changed to races, species and individuals


 * Telekinesis or hypnosis, those are skills or abilities. But in your example sentence it doesn't describe anything, "powerful and dangerous" aren't abilities, you can't say that Sutekh has "danger". Their danger and power comes as being related to others. You only have godlike powers if you wield that power over something/someone, you are only powerful when compared to something of lesser power.
 * How to describe the individuals you listed…how they're described on their articles? They are all wildly different, Sutekh's an Osirin, Azal's a dæmon, Fenric's one of the Old Ones etc.
 * This wiki is an encyclopaedia, it doesn't need to group a huge list of individuals and races under one page, the categories do that. The point of the articles is information.
 * Have a look for example at Cult and Religion, both could just be a list of cults and religions, but the categories perform that function, the purpose of articles is to provide information. --Tangerineduel 15:05, August 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * Tangerinduel meant that powerful has multiple contexts. Henry van Statten was powerful. He had money which made him powerful, be he wasn't powerful in the terms of abilities, or compared to the Beast. To insects, Humans are powerful, but compared to the Beast, Humans are not... do you see how it changes when you compare. And since we can't have a baseline to start from, the page cannot really have anything. I mean, telekinesis; would you consider it a godlike ability? In SJA it is said that all Humans have telekinesis, but simply cannot direct it to one object. Would you then list Humans as godlike? Its where to draw the line and to figure out where normal abilities end and godlike abilities begin. It's simply impossible unless directly stated in the show. The Thirteenth Doctor 15:09, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Okay Thirteen, I get what your saying, but instead of deleting it, is there anything I could do to change it so it would be exceptible?


 * The only thing that gives a godlike ability is comparison to something else. The only way that it would work is if it was a category but even then, I'm not sure it would work. The Thirteenth Doctor 15:28, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Okay for the last time I would like to have god like removed from this article and the only reason it hasn't been is because I cann't edit the tittle, will everyone please stop bringing this up in are talks, I want to know some way that this can be edited so we don't have to delete it, and please, STOP MENTIONING MY POORLY PICKED WORDS.


 * But if you remove godlike, it leaves powerful, which we've pointed out is subjective. Remove powerful and it just becomes a list of races and individuals, which there's no point in having. The Thirteenth Doctor 15:39, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, we are loesing the plot, how about we call it something like Indivuals, races and species, who posses powers above the majority of other beings, only shorter.


 * As The Thirteenth Doctor has said, there really isn't any way to make this article work.
 * The title you suggest is still what is there now, only longer, and slightly more convoluted. It still says the same thing. --Tangerineduel 16:04, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * How is that? And would you keep out, this argument does involve you, if agree with him, just say it and stop adding confusing and unsourced additiongs
 * How is that? And would you keep out, this argument does involve you, if agree with him, just say it and stop adding confusing and unsourced additiongs