User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-24894325-20160909213807/@comment-24894325-20160913225405

User:SOTO/Forum Archive/The Panopticon/@comment-24894325-20160909213807/@comment-24894325-20160913225405 Okay, thoughts collected. Though I still don't know which way I'm gonna lean by the end of the post. I tried to extract the potentially applicable points of the TV discussion and here is a list And I remember admins insisting on rules that are clear, unambiguous and easily enforceable.
 * 1) "why that would be any more important to recognise than verbally recounting a story?"
 * 2) "It's not at all a flashback, but rather the modern characters are experiencing the older events."
 * 3) "an appearance is only one in which the actor got paid"
 * 4) "And again, the proposed rule would require motion. Those are still images, which would never be allowed to count as an appearance."

The "actor got paid" rule, of course, only works in one direction: if the actor got paid, it is an appearance. It seems that part of your argument in favour of counting all above images as appearances is: the painter got paid for drawing these new images, so it is new material and, hence, an appearance. But note the still images quote: they are never an appearance. The companion photos in the Black Archive have been done by someone in the production crew, who got paid for them. In a sense, they are also a new material, but they are not counted as an appearance because they are still images.

It would seem that excluding still images from comic stories is tricky business, but bear with me. I'm talking about in-universe still images. While comic panels are still images from out-of-universe perspective, they are (usually) intended as showing continuous action, whereas some elements within these panels are in-universe still images.

To me, this distinguishes your Example 1 from your Example 4. Example 1 is a picture representing a retelling of a story with things happening. Better than that, the caption directly implies a time period, necessary for the Cyber-Controller to say something. On the contrary, in the Example 4 there is no discernible action associated with the War and Eighth Doctors. The very juxtaposition of the two, who should not co-exist, and the placement of the scaled-down barn in between suggests that this is not a particular event. There is no action, just an acknowledgment of objects existing in the memory, a collection of three still images plucked from the Ninth Doctor's memory if you wish.

Will you agree to exclude your Example 4 (which was also my Example A1) from appearances under the "still images are not appearances" clause?

Meanwhile, we both agree that your Examples 2-3 and my Examples A3-A4 are appearances.