Talk:Charity publication

Individual publications
Because these publications are not a legal part of the Doctor Who franchise, a forum decision was made to not cover these publications on this wiki. Therefore, no pages should be created for these stories/anthologies. Shambala108 ☎  04:48, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

Anthology section expansion?
Should this page be expanded so that an infobox could be included for each anthology, listing all of the stories within. The infobox could also note which stories were later adapted into stories that are covered on this site, as well as which stories feature licensed uses of characters from the DWU. PoolsideJazz ☎  20:13, October 23, 2020 (UTC)


 * Please read the comment above yours, but in short, we do not cover charity publications on this wiki. Shambala108 ☎  20:25, October 23, 2020 (UTC)
 * The comment above talks about not making pages for these stories, which I totally understand, but (as these publications are already listed on the page) I think it would be good to create infoboxes with each of the stories from these publications. The infobox could include; who wrote it (only linking to writers with other work within the DWU) as well as any licensed characters used such as; Miranda Dawkins in Iris Explains, etc.


 * This information is already available on this site but you need to go looking for it. Collecting all the information here would be extremely helpful. PoolsideJazz ☎  20:43, October 23, 2020 (UTC)
 * I also agree that while the Tardis Data Core doesn't cover the stories, there should be a *little bit* more information at least on this page about the stories. Epsilon  (Contact me) 21:05, October 23, 2020 (UTC)

While it is nowhere near complete as I have just whipped it up now, I was thinking about something like this for each anthology;

Walking in Eternity

PoolsideJazz ☎  22:19, October 23, 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll need to have a think on whether to proceed with this, but note that the Walking in Eternity version of In the Sixties doesn't have Dr Oho — it has, well, "Dr Who". (What Doctor is sort of ambiguous. The illustration depicts him as the Cushing Doctor, but he's mentioned to be in exile on Earth and a TV show show host, implying he's the Season 6B Second Doctor from the post-War Games TV Comics.) Dr Oho is a stand-in for him in the commercial version, similar to how El Jefe fills in for the First Doctor on occasion. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎  22:30, October 23, 2020 (UTC)


 * I like this idea. Information about charity anthologies is almost impossible to find on the internet, making it an obvious candidate for this wiki, and this idea lets us do that while still keeping all the information confined to one page. Not to mention how helpful it would be for our coverage of valid, in-universe characters and concepts who originated in invalid charity stories, such as Carmen Yeh or Last Contact. – N8  ( ☎ / 👁️ ) 01:58, October 24, 2020 (UTC)


 * While I like this idea, I'm not sure if it conforms with current policy (this is not to say I think it doesn't, I'm just noting that my interest for this idea comes with the caveat that this wiki doesn't correspond with my idealized version of it, as I'd also prefer us to better cover, for instance, fan culture during the wilderness years, as that's a topic that is woefully documented elsewhere, or any number of such Doctor Who marginalia that aren't compiled elsewhere). If this was to happen, the licensed/unlicensed split might be difficult to actually do without asking the author. Najawin ☎  02:14, October 24, 2020 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think tables like these are a very good idea! However, I think that the table should only have three columns: "title", "writer", and "additional notes". In the Sixties is actually a great example for why this would be beneficial, because it would allow us to note (alongside all the other information that the above table already includes, albeit in sentence form) that the setting of In the Sixties was almost returned to in a deleted scene in The Blue Angel. With this and other similar cases, the ways in which charity stories are significant to the official DWU cannot be easily articulated without a notes section. CoT     ?  04:27, October 24, 2020 (UTC)


 * I think this suggestion improves the original proposal considerably. Here's a (extremely abbreviated) version of the example table for Walking in Eternity, adapted to User: CoT 's suggested format (and with some additional notes!) to show off how versatile this format would be.


 * – N8  ( ☎ / 👁️ ) 18:36, November 16, 2020 (UTC)

This definitely improves upon my suggestion. @ScroogeMacDuck have you had any more thought about introducing this sort of thing? PoolsideJazz ☎  16:59, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Bafflement & Devotion: Iris at the Edges
Raising a discussion about the new Iris Wildthyme anthology from Obverse Books.

This installment will include several stories from other charity publications;


 * In the Sixties (from Walking in Eternity)
 * Being an Extract from ‘The Amazing Adventures of Iris Wildthyme on Neptune’ (from Tales of the Solar System)
 * An Unearthly Palaver (from the G’day for the Doctor convention)
 * Entertaining Mr O (from Perfect Timing)
 * It’s Raining Again (from Perfect Timing)
 * Iris Explains (from Missing Pieces)
 * A World Apart (from the Iris Wildthyme Pages website)
 * No Place Like Home (from Shelf Life)
 * Faking It (from the Iris Wildthyme Pages website)
 * Iris Wildthyme and the Spiders from Magrs (from Walking In Eternity)
 * Iris and the Outsider (from the Iris Wildthyme Pages website)
 * Cabinet of Changes (from Walking In Eternity)
 * Lost, Presumably Illogically Ignored (from an old FTP server)
 * When Iris Met Billy (from A Second Target for Tommy)

This release will also include stories already covered by this wikia; Bafflement and Devotion, Hospitality and Deleted Scene from The Key Lime Pie 2 Time.

I thought that I would raise the discussion on whether this anthology should be covered by this site - despite itself being a charity publication - before its release, if that's allowed, so that it didn't cause problems later down the line.

Personally I think that this release should be covered by the site as it is an important part of Iris Wildthyme history. As most of these stories were released originally in charity publications some of them may include characters that they didn't have licensing for (Cabinet of Changes with the Doctor, for one) and these should be invalid. RadMatter ☎  14:01, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * That is unfortunately not how any of this works.


 * Firstly, it's a bit of a toss-up whether T:SPOIL applies to things which the Wiki does not cover, but that is the only reason I'm not deleting the above post on sight. If we were going to cover this, even as invalid, then you could not give a table of contents like this, or indeed acknowledge the book's existence, earlier than its official release date.


 * Secondly, as documented at Tardis:Valid sources, the Wiki takes the view that charity publications inherently fail Rule 2 by virtue of not being commercial uses of whatever licenses the publishers might happen to possess. Some of the stories in this book, such as the ones which had previous been released on the defunct Iris Wildthyme Pages website, are worthy of coverage regardless, but we should not acknowledge their charity printing.


 * Thirdly, there is absolutely no precedent for stories being covered-as-invalid when they fail Rule 2 (except for Dimensions in Time, which is absolutely one-of-a-kind and should not be used as precedent for anything). Either we cover something or we do not — if any of the necessary DWU licenses are missing, then we kick it off the Wiki altogether.


 * I also invite you to go over T:NO FANFIC again as for this release being "an important part of Iris Wildthyme history". T:NO FANFIC is an arguably-arbitrary line-in-the-sand that the Wiki draws. Even things like Devious or Gene Genius, which most people in their right mind would consider of greater relevance to Doctor Who, and more "canonical", than, say, The Orbitus, can fail this rule, and if so, we are without mercy.


 * At an absolute stretch you could argue for the book to get a single overview page like the Audio Visuals, but that certainly wouldn't translate to individual pages for the unlicensed stories. And even then, we don't have a page about Campaign despite it being a much more notorious charity-published footnote in the history of the DWU. Scrooge MacDuck  ☎  14:15, 9 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I would personally want at least an overview page for this anthology, due to it's importance in the Iris Wildthyme series. Also, I would prefer greater coverage of charity publications, due to there not being much information about these books on the internet. It's in the interest of the readers, and we wouldn't have to cover the unlicenced stories anyway - and yes, I also believe that this Wiki should have pages for thins like Campaign, Gene Genius and Devious. One final thing: fan fiction is an extremely nebulous term, as it could be applied to even the 2005 revival of Doctor Who, so when the forums re-open, I would want to discuss how "fan fiction" is extremly vague. Epsilon  📯 📂 14:24, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * By all means present a case in the forum to give Audio Visuals-style coverage to other unlicensed works. However, a cursory investigation of T:NO FANFIC will show that there is nothing ambiguous about our usage of the term. When we use the term "fanfiction" in policy matters, we are referring to works which revolve around licensed concepts to which they do not have the rights; to things, in other world, which fail Rule 2 of T:VS.


 * The wording of T:NO FANFIC acknowledges that licensed works can sometimes be called "fan works" or even "fan fiction", and that this is not what is being meant when we say T:NO FANFIC. It is, as you say, very easy to imagine Russell T Davies saying an interview that The Stolen Earth was "fanfiction that he somehow got away with broadcasting for real", or some other such thing; and that is neither here nor there for our validity rules.Scrooge MacDuck ☎  14:36, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

The compromise position here seems to be the table-of-contents approach from the above "Anthology section expansion?" proposal. That way we can avoid creating an invalid page for the anthology, which would open a whole can of worms about where to draw the line between charity publications, fanzines, fanfic, etc; but the anthology can still be referenced in the "History" section of Iris Wildthyme (series), along with a pointer to this page for more information. – N8  ( ☎ / 👁️ ) 16:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC)